New Research on BCAAs-Don't waste your money.
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LauraHerman1 wrote: »
Then there is absolutely no need for BCAA's then. You are eating more protein than required, even during a cut. During cuts, it's recommend at 1.5-2.2g/kg of weight. And the higher end is based on if you are fairly lean and fairly active.4 -
LauraHerman1 wrote: »
Like others said you are getting enough from your diet. Now if they make you think that they help you during your workouts, keep taking them. Assuming you aren't on a budget. You'll always get the "waste of money" lecture here but who here doesn't waste their money on something irrelevant. I personally take them and will continue to. They end up being a fairly cheap supplement for me, I buy 90 servings for around $50 and mix a single serving in a half gallon of water.
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broseidonkingofbrocean wrote: »LauraHerman1 wrote: »
Like others said you are getting enough from your diet. Now if they make you think that they help you during your workouts, keep taking them. Assuming you aren't on a budget. You'll always get the "waste of money" lecture here but who here doesn't waste their money on something irrelevant. I personally take them and will continue to. They end up being a fairly cheap supplement for me, I buy 90 servings for around $50 and mix a single serving in a half gallon of water.
Thank you for that. I bought a container from Vitamin Shoppe for $20.00 and it's 45 servings. One serving is 10g and I use one serving a day mixed in 24 ounces of water.
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LauraHerman1 wrote: »
Then there is absolutely no need for BCAA's then. You are eating more protein than required, even during a cut. During cuts, it's recommend at 1.5-2.2g/kg of weight. And the higher end is based on if you are fairly lean and fairly active.
I am lean, 101 pounds at 5' tall small frame and I am active. I work out 4 to 5 times a week lifting and twice a week cardio for 30 minutes. So 1.5g per pound works out to 150g a day which is what my trainer recommended on this cut to help prevent muscle loss. Also why she recommended taking essential Aminos.2 -
LauraHerman1 wrote: »LauraHerman1 wrote: »
Then there is absolutely no need for BCAA's then. You are eating more protein than required, even during a cut. During cuts, it's recommend at 1.5-2.2g/kg of weight. And the higher end is based on if you are fairly lean and fairly active.
I am lean, 101 pounds at 5' tall small frame and I am active. I work out 4 to 5 times a week lifting and twice a week cardio for 30 minutes. So 1.5g per pound works out to 150g a day which is what my trainer recommended on this cut to help prevent muscle loss. Also why she recommended taking essential Aminos.
Did you read the research posted at the beginning of this thread?
ETA: There is also another research paper posted as well as an article by Alan Aragon, one of the foremost leading experts on fitness nutrition. All agree that BCAAs have no effective impact. I've seen and heard some trainers says lot's of things that don't jive with science over the years. Both here and in gyms. Maybe you should forward those links to your trainer and have a conversation.
If you get placebo value, fine. And the $$ are not that much. Personally, I just don't see any reason to take anything that is making a substantial difference. The only workout supplement I take is Creatine and that has lots of research proving it's effectiveness.1 -
From the Alan Aragon article.What happens if I’ll try to use BCAA on high protein diet?
Unless you’re specifically planning on going on a low-protein diet, all it will do is either a) stimulate appetite, since BCAA has been successfully used for this purpose to treat anorexic patients, b) give your body a little bit of extra work in processing it & whatever flavoring & other compounds it might contain, c) add extra calories to your diet, or d) all of the previous. Don’t forget that if your diet has sufficient protein, it has sufficient BCAA; 18-25% of the high-quality protein in your diet is BCAA. I suppose you could take it for a placebo boost if you really want that.0 -
mmagags wrote:Did you read the research posted at the beginning of this thread?
ETA: There is also another research paper posted as well as an article by Alan Aragon, one of the foremost leading experts on fitness nutrition. All agree that BCAAs have no effective impact. I've seen and heard some trainers says lot's of things that don't jive with science over the years. Both here and in gyms. Maybe you should forward those links to your trainer and have a conversation.
If you get placebo value, fine. And the $$ are not that much. Personally, I just don't see any reason to take anything that is making a substantial difference. The only workout supplement I take is Creatine and that has lots of research proving it's effectiveness.
Yes I read the research. It concludes "We conclude that dietary BCAA supplements alone do not promote muscle anabolism." I'm not stating that. Just saying they make my water taste better so I drink more and it seems to help me get through my workouts, It works for me and is fairly inexpensive so I will continue. I wasn't asking for advice. I as just making a statement that it works for me. Why does everyone on here have to be so argumentative?
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i can make water taste better by adding things that are significantly cheaper (lemon, inflused fruit) rather than supplements that have no proven efficacy...1
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also we argue - because what you are posting is counter to the entire thread...aka, the uselessness of BCAA's if you have sufficient protein in your diet...nothing that you have contributed has actually challenged the science behind the research1
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LauraHerman1 wrote: »
Yes I read the research. It concludes "We conclude that dietary BCAA supplements alone do not promote muscle anabolism." I'm not stating that. Just saying they make my water taste better so I drink more and it seems to help me get through my workouts, It works for me and is fairly inexpensive so I will continue. I wasn't asking for advice. I as just making a statement that it works for me. Why does everyone on here have to be so argumentative?
per above the thread was about the fact research says they are not needed so that was the discussion...
you actually came in and decided to play devils advocate and say they gave you "energy" for your workout which isn't a proven effect of BCAA's.
As well if you want to use them but know that they aren't doing you any good physically...similar to the amino's than have at but don't try to convince others of your beliefs..too many experts don't agree with your opinion.
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deannalfisher wrote: »also we argue - because what you are posting is counter to the entire thread...aka, the uselessness of BCAA's if you have sufficient protein in your diet...nothing that you have contributed has actually challenged the science behind the research
+1 And not arguing. Discussing. That's what people do on forums. Thus the name "forum".0 -
Timely graphic in my FB feed today:
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Lol, yeah, I never seemed to get much from my BCAA's - bought a tub once, didn't do it again. If it works as placebo, then go for it, but why waste money if it doesn't.2
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LauraHerman1 wrote: »LauraHerman1 wrote: »
Then there is absolutely no need for BCAA's then. You are eating more protein than required, even during a cut. During cuts, it's recommend at 1.5-2.2g/kg of weight. And the higher end is based on if you are fairly lean and fairly active.
I am lean, 101 pounds at 5' tall small frame and I am active. I work out 4 to 5 times a week lifting and twice a week cardio for 30 minutes. So 1.5g per pound works out to 150g a day which is what my trainer recommended on this cut to help prevent muscle loss. Also why she recommended taking essential Aminos.
Your trainer may well not be a great source of nutritional information.2 -
New study from The Journal of the International Society of Sports Nutrition on effectiveness of BCAAs. Short version, don't waste your money. Long version here:
https://jissn.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12970-017-0184-9Both of these intravenous infusion studies found that BCAAs decreased muscle protein synthesis as well as protein breakdown, meaning a decrease in muscle protein turnover. The catabolic state in which the rate of muscle protein breakdown exceeded the rate of muscle protein synthesis persisted during BCAA infusion. We conclude that the claim that consumption of dietary BCAAs stimulates muscle protein synthesis or produces an anabolic response in human subjects is unwarranted.
Sorry. But they taste really good. I'm going to keep taking them!2 -
need2belean wrote: »New study from The Journal of the International Society of Sports Nutrition on effectiveness of BCAAs. Short version, don't waste your money. Long version here:
https://jissn.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12970-017-0184-9Both of these intravenous infusion studies found that BCAAs decreased muscle protein synthesis as well as protein breakdown, meaning a decrease in muscle protein turnover. The catabolic state in which the rate of muscle protein breakdown exceeded the rate of muscle protein synthesis persisted during BCAA infusion. We conclude that the claim that consumption of dietary BCAAs stimulates muscle protein synthesis or produces an anabolic response in human subjects is unwarranted.
Sorry. But they taste really good. I'm going to keep taking them!
No need to apologize - I still eat pizza because it tastes really good. I just don't have any unrealistic expectations of what it can do for my nutrition or fitness.1 -
need2belean wrote: »New study from The Journal of the International Society of Sports Nutrition on effectiveness of BCAAs. Short version, don't waste your money. Long version here:
https://jissn.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12970-017-0184-9Both of these intravenous infusion studies found that BCAAs decreased muscle protein synthesis as well as protein breakdown, meaning a decrease in muscle protein turnover. The catabolic state in which the rate of muscle protein breakdown exceeded the rate of muscle protein synthesis persisted during BCAA infusion. We conclude that the claim that consumption of dietary BCAAs stimulates muscle protein synthesis or produces an anabolic response in human subjects is unwarranted.
Sorry. But they taste really good. I'm going to keep taking them!
No need to apologize - I still eat pizza because it tastes really good. I just don't have any unrealistic expectations of what it can do for my nutrition or fitness.
Exactly. If they do nothing, that's cool. I just like having something to drink with flavor since I workout fasted.0 -
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I train fasted every day, 3 weight session days, 4 cardio. I have coffee before, water during, protein smoothie with berries and bananas after. No issues here. I do it for the same reasons you do. I make sure I get enough protein daily and it all works out just fine. Plenty of energy and have been having killer workout lately.0
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What are your recommendations for someone like me who trains fasted when cutting? The reason I do IF is simply so that I can eat bigger meals while making sure that I am still in a caloric deficit...and the only reason I train fasted is because I enjoy working out in the morning when there's no one at my gym instead in the afternoon when it's a jungle. In the past, I would use Martin Berkhan's suggestion of taking BCAA's every 2-3 hours, now what with all these studies?
How soon do you eat after the gym? If it's within a few hours, you are probably fine. If not, it may be worth breaking the fast with a protein shake. But overall, it probably won't even matter.1 -
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What are your recommendations for someone like me who trains fasted when cutting? The reason I do IF is simply so that I can eat bigger meals while making sure that I am still in a caloric deficit...and the only reason I train fasted is because I enjoy working out in the morning when there's no one at my gym instead in the afternoon when it's a jungle. In the past, I would use Martin Berkhan's suggestion of taking BCAA's every 2-3 hours, now what with all these studies?
How soon do you eat after the gym? If it's within a few hours, you are probably fine. If not, it may be worth breaking the fast with a protein shake. But overall, it probably won't even matter.
I usually start my workout at 5:30 am and don't eat until noon or 1pm
Its obvious all your muscle is going to just wither away
. Honestly, we all get caught up so much in the minutia, but if its been working, somt fix it. Honestly, if the placebo effect of supplements help, then i would stress it.
If you care about every tiny bit of gain, have a poat workout protein shake with carbs.0 -
What are your recommendations for someone like me who trains fasted when cutting? The reason I do IF is simply so that I can eat bigger meals while making sure that I am still in a caloric deficit...and the only reason I train fasted is because I enjoy working out in the morning when there's no one at my gym instead in the afternoon when it's a jungle. In the past, I would use Martin Berkhan's suggestion of taking BCAA's every 2-3 hours, now what with all these studies?
How soon do you eat after the gym? If it's within a few hours, you are probably fine. If not, it may be worth breaking the fast with a protein shake. But overall, it probably won't even matter.
I usually start my workout at 5:30 am and don't eat until noon or 1pm
Its obvious all your muscle is going to just wither away . Honestly, we all get caught up so much in the minutia, but if its been working, somt fix it. Honestly, if the placebo effect of supplements help, then i would stress it.
If you care about every tiny bit of gain, have a poat workout protein shake with carbs.
This^. I was just reading a research paper yesterday that referenced about 6 others on the same subject and there is nothing conclusive about when to ingest nutrients for anabolic response. The general conclusion was anytime between post workout and 6 hours is ideal and longer than that doesn't really make that much of a difference.0 -
This content has been removed.
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What are your recommendations for someone like me who trains fasted when cutting? The reason I do IF is simply so that I can eat bigger meals while making sure that I am still in a caloric deficit...and the only reason I train fasted is because I enjoy working out in the morning when there's no one at my gym instead in the afternoon when it's a jungle. In the past, I would use Martin Berkhan's suggestion of taking BCAA's every 2-3 hours, now what with all these studies?
How soon do you eat after the gym? If it's within a few hours, you are probably fine. If not, it may be worth breaking the fast with a protein shake. But overall, it probably won't even matter.
I usually start my workout at 5:30 am and don't eat until noon or 1pm
Its obvious all your muscle is going to just wither away . Honestly, we all get caught up so much in the minutia, but if its been working, somt fix it. Honestly, if the placebo effect of supplements help, then i would stress it.
If you care about every tiny bit of gain, have a poat workout protein shake with carbs.
Is pre-workout food necessary or just post should be good enough?
Last review from Alan Aragon suggested to eat with 2 hours pre or post workout as a safety net, but emphasizing that total protein is way more important than timing. Also considering evolution, if you went longer, it would be fine. Our bodies generally have enough fat stores and glycogem stores that it would really matter.2 -
Dang and I just bought a tub of BCAA1
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need2belean wrote: »need2belean wrote: »New study from The Journal of the International Society of Sports Nutrition on effectiveness of BCAAs. Short version, don't waste your money. Long version here:
https://jissn.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12970-017-0184-9Both of these intravenous infusion studies found that BCAAs decreased muscle protein synthesis as well as protein breakdown, meaning a decrease in muscle protein turnover. The catabolic state in which the rate of muscle protein breakdown exceeded the rate of muscle protein synthesis persisted during BCAA infusion. We conclude that the claim that consumption of dietary BCAAs stimulates muscle protein synthesis or produces an anabolic response in human subjects is unwarranted.
Sorry. But they taste really good. I'm going to keep taking them!
No need to apologize - I still eat pizza because it tastes really good. I just don't have any unrealistic expectations of what it can do for my nutrition or fitness.
Exactly. If they do nothing, that's cool. I just like having something to drink with flavor since I workout fasted.
A lot of less expensive ways to flavor water than BCAAs2
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