My vo2max keeps dropping and so does my calories!
Edensxox
Posts: 12 Member
Please help me ! For the last three weeks I've been using my Garmin vivosmart 3 & I thought I liked it untill now.. It first told me my vo2max was excellent-great and my calorie burn during exercise was good. But now it's dropped down to fair and my burn is noticeably less than before. My Ahr throughout the workout is near the same sometimes I feel like I'm pushing more but I'm unsure how to stop the figures from dropping down !
I try to aim for a high heart rate each exercise which jogging measured zone 5on my watch.. Am I trying too hard ? I'm 21 too, any advice would be amazing
I try to aim for a high heart rate each exercise which jogging measured zone 5on my watch.. Am I trying too hard ? I'm 21 too, any advice would be amazing
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Replies
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I have no idea what vo2max is....what is your fitness goal right now? Lose weight?0
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You say your HR stays the same from when you got the VS to now. Has your pace been declining? HR (relative to max) and pace are the two things it looks at when it determines your running VO2max.
Are you getting enough recovery between runs?0 -
gamerbabe14 wrote: »I have no idea what vo2max is...
Maximal oxygen (volume) uptake. It's how much you can deliver to your muscles to power them. It's basically your aerobic capacity. Research shows it's also the best predictor we have for how long a person will live, probably because it's normalized by body weight (eg punishes fatness) and because your heart and lungs and everything else have to be in good working order to score well.1 -
gamerbabe14 wrote: »I have no idea what vo2max is....what is your fitness goal right now? Lose weight?
Wanting to lose weight but also get the most burn out of each workout0 -
NorthCascades wrote: »You say your HR stays the same from when you got the VS to now. Has your pace been declining? HR (relative to max) and pace are the two things it looks at when it determines your running VO2max.
Are you getting enough recovery between runs?
I've had to build up to long jogs as I suffered from shin splints but compared to few weeks ago have increased my speed abit and can run for a little bit longer but I've noticed after my small jog if vo2max drops I'll go onto my elliptical trainer and calorie burn decreases. Yesterday my AHR was 151 & 309cal burn
Today was AHR 157 & only 312cal burn
Both 30minutes with 1rest0 -
How many runs have you done with it so far?0
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If you've only had our for 3 weeks, it can take a while for the vo2max calculation to normalize. A number of runs.0
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With the new watch ? About 10 now0
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scorpio516 wrote: »If you've only had our for 3 weeks, it can take a while for the vo2max calculation to normalize. A number of runs.
I hope so0 -
gamerbabe14 wrote: »I have no idea what vo2max is....what is your fitness goal right now? Lose weight?
Wanting to lose weight but also get the most burn out of each workout
If you're running that comes from distance covered, not heart rate.1 -
Please help me ! For the last three weeks I've been using my Garmin vivosmart 3 & I thought I liked it untill now.. It first told me my vo2max was excellent-great and my calorie burn during exercise was good. But now it's dropped down to fair and my burn is noticeably less than before. My Ahr throughout the workout is near the same sometimes I feel like I'm pushing more but I'm unsure how to stop the figures from dropping down !
I try to aim for a high heart rate each exercise which jogging measured zone 5on my watch.. Am I trying too hard ? I'm 21 too, any advice would be amazing
It's wrong. Unless you are gaining weight it is at worse the same. VO2 max is a measure of liters of oxygen your brings into your body. The higher the better. But it is typically measured as (Milliliters of oxygen per kilogram) of body weight. It's is a good predictor of fitness, but there are better measures. It can be improved but typically it is the first adaption to max out (it can be improved over a decade but after the first year you are only looking at a few percent better). Lots of research studies have shown that intervals for 8 weeks in untrained people can move it up 5-10 percent.
If you google it you will see lots of charts about bad to good levels of VO2. To really test it you need a lab, and a mask, and a computer. VO2 max tests require you to exercise to failure. They hurt. I have done 10 of them in my life. You slowly increase the difficulty of the exercise in a set way until a person completely gives up. If you are competitive like me and can see the number slowly going up as you work harder and know what a good max is you will crush yourself. Totally. Basically as your body works harder you bring in more oxygen, this is what that mask measures. So you have to max physically out to get a true max measure.
VO2 is also sport specific, running is higher than biking for example. I can explain that if you want also.
As I stated above there are two ways to display VO2 but the standard one is based on body weight (kilograms not pounds). If you lose weight your VO2 max goes up. Basically more oxygen for less you...simple really. I tell all the people I coach who want to race to lose weight...sending oxygen to fat cells while racing is a waste! I am a smaller person so I only bring in 4 liters of oxygen which is ok but at race weight I am 130 pounds which is 59 kilograms. I know the 4 liters from many test so my VO2 max is around 68 (4000/59). I round up as it makes me feel better. I really want 70 but after 15 years of swimming, biking, and running...now just biking. I am pretty much done improving VO2, so I work on other aspects of fitness more. Untrained overweight smokers will have VO2 of less than 10. Which means walking is near max.
So if you are exercising hard and losing weight your VO2 max is going up. A watch has no idea what your body is doing other than HR which is a really crude method to measure much. VO2 targeted training is done by going really hard. Suffering. But more than twice a week is all that your body can really absorb. The rest of the week needs to be moderate as that works a different aspect of fitness more.
Finally, I have used a ton of garmins (my wife and I own 5-6 of them). I find them to be close, 10-20 percent off. But 10-20 is a huge range so if you really want to know contact a local university, exercise physiologists are always looking for test subjects. Just be prepared to suffer.
This is a simple way to explain it all. There is ALOT more to it but rest assured you are doing good things if you are exercising.
John3 -
More than anything else, it is likely that the watch has been figuring out your body’s response. Basically, your original numbers were not reliable. This is common.3
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Please help me ! For the last three weeks I've been using my Garmin vivosmart 3 & I thought I liked it untill now.. It first told me my vo2max was excellent-great and my calorie burn during exercise was good. But now it's dropped down to fair and my burn is noticeably less than before. My Ahr throughout the workout is near the same sometimes I feel like I'm pushing more but I'm unsure how to stop the figures from dropping down !
I try to aim for a high heart rate each exercise which jogging measured zone 5on my watch.. Am I trying too hard ? I'm 21 too, any advice would be amazing
It's wrong. Unless you are gaining weight it is at worse the same. VO2 max is a measure of liters of oxygen your brings into your body. The higher the better. But it is typically measured as (Milliliters of oxygen per kilogram) of body weight. It's is a good predictor of fitness, but there are better measures. It can be improved but typically it is the first adaption to max out (it can be improved over a decade but after the first year you are only looking at a few percent better). Lots of research studies have shown that intervals for 8 weeks in untrained people can move it up 5-10 percent.
If you google it you will see lots of charts about bad to good levels of VO2. To really test it you need a lab, and a mask, and a computer. VO2 max tests require you to exercise to failure. They hurt. I have done 10 of them in my life. You slowly increase the difficulty of the exercise in a set way until a person completely gives up. If you are competitive like me and can see the number slowly going up as you work harder and know what a good max is you will crush yourself. Totally. Basically as your body works harder you bring in more oxygen, this is what that mask measures. So you have to max physically out to get a true max measure.
VO2 is also sport specific, running is higher than biking for example. I can explain that if you want also.
As I stated above there are two ways to display VO2 but the standard one is based on body weight (kilograms not pounds). If you lose weight your VO2 max goes up. Basically more oxygen for less you...simple really. I tell all the people I coach who want to race to lose weight...sending oxygen to fat cells while racing is a waste! I am a smaller person so I only bring in 4 liters of oxygen which is ok but at race weight I am 130 pounds which is 59 kilograms. I know the 4 liters from many test so my VO2 max is around 68 (4000/59). I round up as it makes me feel better. I really want 70 but after 15 years of swimming, biking, and running...now just biking. I am pretty much done improving VO2, so I work on other aspects of fitness more. Untrained overweight smokers will have VO2 of less than 10. Which means walking is near max.
So if you are exercising hard and losing weight your VO2 max is going up. A watch has no idea what your body is doing other than HR which is a really crude method to measure much. VO2 targeted training is done by going really hard. Suffering. But more than twice a week is all that your body can really absorb. The rest of the week needs to be moderate as that works a different aspect of fitness more.
Finally, I have used a ton of garmins (my wife and I own 5-6 of them). I find them to be close, 10-20 percent off. But 10-20 is a huge range so if you really want to know contact a local university, exercise physiologists are always looking for test subjects. Just be prepared to suffer.
This is a simple way to explain it all. There is ALOT more to it but rest assured you are doing good things if you are exercising.
John
Thank you very much John very interesting stuff!! I've only lost about 6lbs but feel my jogging has improved. I only go for small jogs too because I had very bad lower leg pains so had to kinda restart to ease the pain. I never knew what vo2max was untill the lower it dropped the more I had to push to burn the calories I usually would burn without pushing very hard. Since it's dropped my total workout has dropped by near100 calories which isn't much but knowing my usual burn it's quite upsetting. This is a weird question but could pre workouts affect the measurements on the watch ? Just thought of that then lol but thank you heaps John
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From now on I'm going to record almost everything ! Then if it decides to slightly increase I'll be able to find out why. Guess it's all trial & error but something I'm just going to push through. Thank you everyone who commented !0
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It does a poor job at measuring vo2max. I have a garmin fenix 5 and it goes up and down week to week, even if all training was equal. It then estimates race times using the vo2max measure which for me are unachievable even on my best day.
I don't know how it estimates calorie burns, but there is probably a 25% margin of error (positive and negative).
I think that it requires experimentation to work out how accurate the projected burns are based on your weight loss.0 -
Jeff_01022014 wrote: »It does a poor job at measuring vo2max. I have a garmin fenix 5 and it goes up and down week to week, even if all training was equal. It then estimates race times using the vo2max measure which for me are unachievable even on my best day.
I don't know how it estimates calorie burns, but there is probably a 25% margin of error (positive and negative).
I think that it requires experimentation to work out how accurate the projected burns are based on your weight loss.
I bought a Garmin Fenix 3 HR in December 2016 - my Vo2 Max has been pretty consistent.
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Jeff_01022014 wrote: »It does a poor job at measuring vo2max. I have a garmin fenix 5 and it goes up and down week to week, even if all training was equal. It then estimates race times using the vo2max measure which for me are unachievable even on my best day.
I don't know how it estimates calorie burns, but there is probably a 25% margin of error (positive and negative).
I think that it requires experimentation to work out how accurate the projected burns are based on your weight loss.
That would be very annoying ! Watching it go up&down all the time. They're good devices but kinda wish it was like my old one without the vo2max reading. Going to try different approaches to cardio to see what can make it move bit lol0 -
Give it time, it "might" stabilize but as I said if you really want know get it tested. It's pretty cool to learn about how they body works. So much crap on the internet that is half true....or wrong.
You asked about pre workouts. I am NOT a fan. Yes they do help, mostly the caffeine but I would limit usage to once per week or so. They really ramp up your body but in the end if you are not racing or trying to PR why use them. But yes I do think they might influence the Garmin readings some as they measure time at a certain HR. Pre workouts jack your heart rate so it might inflate the number. I use caffeine once and a while as it can add 2% or so but it's not a huge increase. All the drugs that really work are illegal...except maybe creatine...different topic...
Also remember what I said about VO2 being sport specific. You can not compare numbers if you are not doing pretty much the same exercise.
For example running VO2s are higher that biking because biking uses less muscles than running (you are sitting down after all)...so less muscles in use, less oxygen that the body will take in. The highest VO2 max ever tested for a human was I think 92. That's amazing...cross country skiing. This makes sense as he was double polling as he tested...working the whole body. Massive oxygen demand in a world class athlete. But as I said VO2 is only one part of fitness and I do not think it is the most important one but it IS important. Also you have to factor something called efficiency into the equation but that is really complicated stuff...cool but it would require a lot more words.
So if you really want to compare m asurements pick one sport and repeat that over and over again. It will slowly become more accurate.
For a good estimate of calories a running comparison works well. A mile burns about 100 calories running (yes there is a range but 100 is close for most). When you work out how does the effort level compare to running a 10 minute mile? Is it feels the same then you know its 10 calories a minute. Compare all effort levels to running paces. If it feels like a 8 minute mile pace it's 12 calories a minute. It's really hard to burn 350 calories an hour unless you are really fit and working, then it pretty achievable. I know strong recreational cyclist who can burn 1000 an hour but they are working hard and pretty large 200+ pounds. At 132 I have to work pretty freakin hard to burn 850 on the bike in an hour and I am a strong cyclist. I think my best ever in an hour was 970 and I was crushed.
John1 -
The watch measures running VO2max by HR and pace. It measures cycling VO2max by HR and power. That's all that goes into it, although they filter the data so if you run up or down a hill, that part (in theory) shouldn't count.1
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Give it time, it "might" stabilize but as I said if you really want know get it tested. It's pretty cool to learn about how they body works. So much crap on the internet that is half true....or wrong.
You asked about pre workouts. I am NOT a fan. Yes they do help, mostly the caffeine but I would limit usage to once per week or so. They really ramp up your body but in the end if you are not racing or trying to PR why use them. But yes I do think they might influence the Garmin readings some as they measure time at a certain HR. Pre workouts jack your heart rate so it might inflate the number. I use caffeine once and a while as it can add 2% or so but it's not a huge increase. All the drugs that really work are illegal...except maybe creatine...different topic...
Also remember what I said about VO2 being sport specific. You can not compare numbers if you are not doing pretty much the same exercise.
For example running VO2s are higher that biking because biking uses less muscles than running (you are sitting down after all)...so less muscles in use, less oxygen that the body will take in. The highest VO2 max ever tested for a human was I think 92. That's amazing...cross country skiing. This makes sense as he was double polling as he tested...working the whole body. Massive oxygen demand in a world class athlete. But as I said VO2 is only one part of fitness and I do not think it is the most important one but it IS important. Also you have to factor something called efficiency into the equation but that is really complicated stuff...cool but it would require a lot more words.
So if you really want to compare m asurements pick one sport and repeat that over and over again. It will slowly become more accurate.
For a good estimate of calories a running comparison works well. A mile burns about 100 calories running (yes there is a range but 100 is close for most). When you work out how does the effort level compare to running a 10 minute mile? Is it feels the same then you know its 10 calories a minute. Compare all effort levels to running paces. If it feels like a 8 minute mile pace it's 12 calories a minute. It's really hard to burn 350 calories an hour unless you are really fit and working, then it pretty achievable. I know strong recreational cyclist who can burn 1000 an hour but they are working hard and pretty large 200+ pounds. At 132 I have to work pretty freakin hard to burn 850 on the bike in an hour and I am a strong cyclist. I think my best ever in an hour was 970 and I was crushed.
John
My usual workout routine is the same weights, jog and elliptical so to work on the vo2max readings what would I need to try achieve? To go as long as I can with a decent heart rate ? I'm slightly confused how to increase it. Yesterday I did a 20min jog with a Ahr of 157 which I thought was okay but it dropped my readings by 1 so it's only at 39 but wow 92 that's insane !! I guess when it comes to my jog I'll work on that the most of my cardios and hope for the best. You're very clued up with these things john so I appreciate your advice !
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My usual workout routine is the same weights, jog and elliptical so to work on the vo2max readings what would I need to try achieve? To go as long as I can with a decent heart rate ? I'm slightly confused how to increase it.
To be perfectly candid, you're overthinking it. Increased VO2MAX is a viable target, but personally I'd be tailoring that work to peak for a goal race.
Where you are at the moment your still working on improving your basic aerobic capacity. Given the short duration of your runs the data isn't particularly solid either. I'd suggest not worrying about it. Work on improving your running so that you can go for longer, and you'll find improvements as a result of that.4 -
MeanderingMammal wrote: »
My usual workout routine is the same weights, jog and elliptical so to work on the vo2max readings what would I need to try achieve? To go as long as I can with a decent heart rate ? I'm slightly confused how to increase it.
To be perfectly candid, you're overthinking it. Increased VO2MAX is a viable target, but personally I'd be tailoring that work to peak for a goal race.
Where you are at the moment your still working on improving your basic aerobic capacity. Given the short duration of your runs the data isn't particularly solid either. I'd suggest not worrying about it. Work on improving your running so that you can go for longer, and you'll find improvements as a result of that.
Yeah you're right I am overthinking it. But I honestly can't help it. I will tend to obsess over heart rates &calories burnt to try get the best result. I only noticed as this vo2max was going down so was my burn even if the heart rates were leveled to each other, otherwise I wouldn't even know what it was lol. But I almost can't help but obsess over it. I guess I should just be happy I'm actually exercising so hopefully soon I can change my mindset on this journey. Thank you0 -
MeanderingMammal wrote: »
My usual workout routine is the same weights, jog and elliptical so to work on the vo2max readings what would I need to try achieve? To go as long as I can with a decent heart rate ? I'm slightly confused how to increase it.
To be perfectly candid, you're overthinking it. Increased VO2MAX is a viable target, but personally I'd be tailoring that work to peak for a goal race.
Where you are at the moment your still working on improving your basic aerobic capacity. Given the short duration of your runs the data isn't particularly solid either. I'd suggest not worrying about it. Work on improving your running so that you can go for longer, and you'll find improvements as a result of that.
Yeah you're right I am overthinking it. But I honestly can't help it. I will tend to obsess over heart rates &calories burnt to try get the best result. I only noticed as this vo2max was going down so was my burn even if the heart rates were leveled to each other, otherwise I wouldn't even know what it was lol. But I almost can't help but obsess over it. I guess I should just be happy I'm actually exercising so hopefully soon I can change my mindset on this journey. Thank you
How do you know the VO2max or the calorie burn is accurate? For VO2max, Garmin needs you to run all out for a period of time. Otherwise it guestimates the best it can. And even if you run all out, it is still a guestimate. The only true way to know your real numbers is testing in a lab. FWIW, my actual numbers and Garmin's guestimate are pretty close. But I train HARD and often. It has a lot of data to draw from. Plus, you say you are wearing your watch for other activities. Getting data from them is usually pointless.
For calories, are you seeing a difference on the scale? If your calories really did drop, your weight should increase. But even that is not super accurate after only 3 weeks. You will need months of data to dial in your calorie burn.
The bottom line is don't worry about it. Unless you are training for races VO2max is really not that useful. And even then it is not the only thing you need to know. It is one of many stats that you need to improve performance.1 -
My Garmin underestimates my VO2max by a fair amount - I got an actual test done at a kinesiology lab. I basically ignore the value Garmin gives me (although a lot of their other metrics are good).1
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I wouldn’t worry about your VO2 max - it’s something you test once a year, and requires you to run to failure. I’ve done it a couple of times and it’s hard work. Any reading you’re getting from your watch is a tech guess. Concentrate instead on time - both speed and endurance - and keep an eye on your heart rate (resting esp.), blood pressure, and weight (esp. fat percentage). Those will show your fitness improvements clearly. And like all data, you need time to show trends to get accurate feedback. Keep up the good work.1
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ContraryMaryMary wrote: »I wouldn’t worry about your VO2 max - it’s something you test once a year, and requires you to run to failure. I’ve done it a couple of times and it’s hard work. Any reading you’re getting from your watch is a tech guess. Concentrate instead on time - both speed and endurance - and keep an eye on your heart rate (resting esp.), blood pressure, and weight (esp. fat percentage). Those will show your fitness improvements clearly. And like all data, you need time to show trends to get accurate feedback. Keep up the good work.
Guess when I see stats drop on my watch I go into panic mode0
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