Rebuilding Atrophied Muscles plus Losing Weight?

HoneyBadger302
HoneyBadger302 Posts: 2,089 Member
edited November 2024 in Health and Weight Loss
I think this is a bit of a unique situation.

A year ago I had a pretty badly broken leg (pilon fracture). Four surgeries and a year later I'm finally to a point where I can manage "regular" gym workouts again (with some limitations, but that's not important to this discussion).

Before I broke my leg I was actually getting really fit again - starting to rival some of the most fit points in my life. I had a little extra weight, but not much (10-15 pounds) that was slowly but steadily coming off.

This past year meant that my fitness took a back seat. Eventually my appetite returned, and the stress of the complications with my leg meant it simply wasn't worth tracking all of that for me to stay on top of my eating. It was a choice, not making excuses.

Now, however, things seem to have turned the corner from acute to rehab, and I'm stoked to be back at the gym. I'm enjoying working out again, and am working with my trainer to get things back.

The question here is regarding where that line is between building (rebuilding in my case) ATROPHIED muscle vs trying to lose the extra weight (now I've got a good 25 pounds to lose to my ideal). Is rebuilding atrophied muscle similar to trying to bulk where you can't really eat at a deficit and rebuild? Or, does atrophied muscle still retain it's "muscle memory?" Nerves and proper use sure aren't muscle memory anymore (I have to be very careful of form, even walking), but there's not much in the way of information that I've found in terms of can I rebuild these atrophied muscles WHILE losing weight (at a "weight loss" pace - I'll naturally lose very slowly - like maybe .5 lb/wk - just by increasing my activity).

I'm not really stressing over the scale, but I would like my clothes to start fitting a little better LOL. Right now, I'm mostly eating to fuel my workouts at a very slight deficit from maintenance...would I be able to make that a deeper deficit and still rebuild these atrophied muscles (mostly in my left leg - rest of my body is out of shape but didn't really lose anything - just covered by more fat now lol).

Replies

  • PAV8888
    PAV8888 Posts: 14,332 Member
    edited December 2017
    There is a good amount of evidence that for an untrained individual in the presence of an abundance of available fat, muscle gains can happen.

    In fact, it appears it can happen even without optimising the conditions as above!
    "...weight training can produce hypertrophy in skeletal muscle during severe energy restriction and large-scale weight loss"
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8379514

    Would that be quite as "fast" in terms of an absolute value as doing so during a net caloric surplus? Probably not. But happening at a slower rate doesn't mean that muscle growth does not take place!

    "Gaining in a caloric deficit
    It is possible to gain muscle mass and strength in a caloric deficit, but there are many factors that decide whether it will work for you or not. It’s probably a good idea to go for deficit gaining if you’re overweight, or a beginner/novice. If you’re both, even better.
    If you are, however, a lean athlete with years of strength training experience, it might work, it might not. I can’t speak in certainties. You could try it, just make sure to keep protein high (i.e. 2g per kg bw), go for a slow cut (maximum -500kcal per day), get enough sleep & recovery, avoid excessive stress, have the right genetics, and use a solid strength training program. The better your body composition is, the harder deficit gaining will be for you, in all likelihood (Helms et al., 2014b; Rossow et al., 2013; Kistler et al., 2014; Huovinen et al., 2015). The graph below shows that endurance athletes with lower body fat %, lost FFM on a cut. Those with body fat over 10% did not.
    Correlation by Huovinen et al., 2015. Note that they didn’t follow a strength training program in this study and that the sample size was small.
    Gaining strength is easier, because more studies suggest that you can gain strength even if you’re quite well trained (see the study overview table above for details).
    Bar chart by Garthe et al., 2011 – Novice/intermediate lifters gain more strength on the BP during a slow cut (SR) compared to a quick cut (FR)
    http://sci-fit.net/2017/bulking-deficit-gaining/

    Some other "inspiring" references:
    https://muscleandstrengthpyramids.com/calorie-deficit-gain-weight/
    https://bayesianbodybuilding.com/gain-muscle-and-lose-fat-at-the-same-time/

    In any case, our abilities and strength are both a function of absolute value and of relative value based on how much body weight we're hauling around.

    So reducing our overall body weight multiples the effectiveness of the slower muscle growth and depending on starting point is the most effective strategy for a lot of us.

    All in all I would take it easy, eat my protein, keep to a small deficit, and keep doing my rehab exercises as directed!!!

    Take care.

  • sijomial
    sijomial Posts: 19,809 Member
    edited December 2017
    My experience with rebuilding atrophied muscles was that I got very rapid initial recovery despite being in a deficit.

    After a dozy driver knocked me off my motorbike by using my knee to disassemble the front of his car I lost 5" of quad circumference on one leg after 3 months on crutches not being able to weight bear. Also gained a load of weight, mostly fat but had some great traps....

    After I got back on both feet I regained 3" very quickly despite a substantial deficit (that's not a recommendation by the way - I just didn't have any work clothes that still fitted!). The remainder was a long and hard slog and progress was related to managing my injuries and training restrictions rather than diet related.
    BTW - it's not just the major muscles that atrophy, the little stabiliser muscles also go, uneven surfaces were a real hazard at first.

    Tip you may find useful.
    As regards "muscle memory" (I'm not a fan of the term) you unconsciously adapt and favour your strong leg when you have a major injury. My Physio pointed out I always stood with the majority of weight on my good leg and always initiated movement from the same leg. Had to make a conscious and prolonged effort to stand with my weight balanced and lead with my left on stairs etc..


    Common sense would suggest a small deficit, higher than normal levels of protein and patience.
    Best of luck.
  • HoneyBadger302
    HoneyBadger302 Posts: 2,089 Member
    PAV8888 wrote: »

    All in all I would take it easy, eat my protein, keep to a small deficit, and keep doing my rehab exercises as directed!!!

    Thanks for the info, this was what made sense to me, and has been my MO the past month as I've returned to the gym.

    sijomial wrote: »
    Common sense would suggest a small deficit, higher than normal levels of protein and patience.
    Best of luck.

    Mine was a dirt bike when another hit me, crashed into me, and both bikes and humans rotated over my left leg that got stuck in a rut. On crutches from Dec 3 until March 20th, and still had 2 more surgeries after that, so ups were followed by downs, although no more extended time on crutches.

    My calf is still a full inch smaller than the other (and I'm a girl, so that's quite a bit LOL). Thigh too.

    Ya, my PT did a great job of pointing out those "uneven" things even when I felt like I wasn't - so I make good use of mirrors at the gym to help me stay even. Making sure I use that leg properly. Proper footfall.

    I can be patient for the most part, just hate going through the whole "get fit again" thing. Ugh.
  • anewell28
    anewell28 Posts: 79 Member
    Background: student-athlete who is active and trains in the gym for strength (and partly for looks)

    I had a very bad case of mono November 2016 that lingered into December and Janurary. My throat swelled up so bad I was on a liquid diet for weeks. Temporarily lost my sense of taste and lost about 10-15 pounds within that first month. The majority of that weight was muscle loss due to being bed ridden.

    I can tell you from experience regaining your strength will be surprisingly fast, because it was for me. My problem was that from janurary to July I ate everything in sight and gained too much fat rather than muscle. Went into a calorie deficit since the beginning of August until now and lost 15 pounds. I've been in a weekly deficit every week besides Thanksgiving week and I have hit new PRs in my squat/deadlift/bench press in the past few months. I am the leanest I have ever been in my life and also the strongest.

    In my personal opinion based on what I have experienced in the past year, you should be fine to be in a calorie deficit and to make gains in the gym.
  • HoneyBadger302
    HoneyBadger302 Posts: 2,089 Member
    edited December 2017
    It's just a long process (not known for being the most patient person in the world, but this pilon has taught me a few lessons). Since it's a very limb specific muscle loss, I think it's a little tougher, but I'm pretty determined to do my best to recover it as completely as I can.

    I've got at least another year of building it back up before I'll know where my ankle will end up, so just keeping that in mind helps a little. Sometimes LOL.

    Seems like others experience reflects what I was thinking, so will continue on this plan.
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