Is ketosis and intermittent fasting the same?
cocoradical
Posts: 10 Member
I've been doing intermittent fasting for over a month and I'm doing very good. I look slimmer but I never lost weight. It also motivated me to eat healthier food. plus my muscles popped out more. But during the recent holidays I just can't help but break my routine. Now I'm planning to bounce back but this time I'm going to try ketogenic diet.
So now I'm wondering if both diets are basically the same and will give me the same results, or is there more or less to it
So now I'm wondering if both diets are basically the same and will give me the same results, or is there more or less to it
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Replies
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The current surge of threads on the subject(s) in here can make it appear that way, but intermittent fasting is sticking to a certain meal schedule, and keto is extremely low carb and high fat.
To lose weight, you still have to eat less.
To build muscles, you still have to use them.
How to do those things, is up to you.9 -
One is simply an eating pattern or eating window that doesn't include, exclude or set limits on types of foods and macros eaten.
The other one is Keto.
Completely different approaches. The only similarity is both are currently very fashionable.
If both methods end up with calories and protein matched then weight loss/gain results should be the same.
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They are different things, as already stated. IF is having a smaller eating window like not eating for 18 hours and only eating during a 6 hour window. Ketosis is keeping your carb intake below your body's usual needs so you use fat and ketones for energy, and your liver produces any shortfall in glucose that your red blood cells or brain needs. A ketogenic diet is typically under 20-50g of carbs a day, but some metabolically healthy and active people who time carbs around exercise will stay in ketosis at higher levels.
I think IF and ketosis are often linked because many who try ketosis find that their appetite, or drive to eat, is greatly reduced (perhaps due to more stable blood glucose and lower insulin levels) so they naturally fall into an IF way of eating. I did. Before going ketogenic I ate every 2-3 hours because I shook and had low BG symptoms (hangry, tired, weak, headaches). Once glucose was not my primary fuel, I found I did not need to eat before 1-2 pm and that I could easily go 4-6 hours between meals.
It could also be due to the fact that ketogenic meals can have a lower volume depending on the veggies you choose (if you choose any or many) so some find it more satisfying to eat larger meals at a sitting.3 -
Any diet will give the same results - if you eat less calories than you expend, you'll lose weight/fat; if you eat more calories than you expend, you'll gain weight/fat. There's nothing magical about keto or IF in that regard, nor do either of them defy the physical laws of energy balance.
As sijomial said, the main similarity is that both are very trendy at the moment (just read through any of the thousands of threads on MFP about keto and/or IF), and neither are necessary for successful weight/fat loss.1 -
IMF is WHEN you eat and keto is WHAT you eat. You could totally do them together if you eat a ketogenic diet during your eating window but neither are really necessary for weight loss. It's whatever your comfortable with. As long as you're burning more calories than you consume, you will lose weight
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They are different things, as already stated. IF is having a smaller eating window like not eating for 18 hours and only eating during a 6 hour window. Ketosis is keeping your carb intake below your body's usual needs so you use fat and ketones for energy, and your liver produces any shortfall in glucose that your red blood cells or brain needs. A ketogenic diet is typically under 20-50g of carbs a day, but some metabolically healthy and active people who time carbs around exercise will stay in ketosis at higher levels.
I think IF and ketosis are often linked because many who try ketosis find that their appetite, or drive to eat, is greatly reduced (perhaps due to more stable blood glucose and lower insulin levels) so they naturally fall into an IF way of eating. I did. Before going ketogenic I ate every 2-3 hours because I shook and had low BG symptoms (hangry, tired, weak, headaches). Once glucose was not my primary fuel, I found I did not need to eat before 1-2 pm and that I could easily go 4-6 hours between meals.
It could also be due to the fact that ketogenic meals can have a lower volume depending on the veggies you choose (if you choose any or many) so some find it more satisfying to eat larger meals at a sitting.
Doing longer fasts will put you partially in ketosis.4 -
kommodevaran wrote: »The current surge of threads on the subject(s) in here can make it appear that way, but intermittent fasting is sticking to a certain meal schedule, and keto is extremely low carb and high fat.
Keto is not EXTREMELY low carb and HIGH fat. Keto is lowish carbs and high protein (I wish people would read the book - especially the ones trying it and thinking it is extremely low carb and high fat). For me, I need to stay under 55 grams of carbs per day...but I eat trimmed-of-fat-skinless-chicken breast, fish, a little bacon, sausage, pork loin, lean cuts of meat in moderation. I still have to count calories as well.
That being said, I do not fret if I have pulled pork, burnt ends, brisket, etc....moderation is still the key.
I used Atkins with great success when I first started losing weight. BUT IT IS A DIET and I REALLY MISSED PASTA...so I switched to Weight Watchers and had great success...BUT IT IS A DIET so I switched to MFP and had great success eating whatever I wanted, in moderation.8 -
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moosmum1972 wrote: »
Keto is very low carb usually under 50g majority pick under 25g, high fat and moderate protein.Tweaking_Time wrote: »kommodevaran wrote: »The current surge of threads on the subject(s) in here can make it appear that way, but intermittent fasting is sticking to a certain meal schedule, and keto is extremely low carb and high fat.
Keto is not EXTREMELY low carb and HIGH fat. It is lowish carbs and high protein. For me, I need to stay under 55 grams of carbs per day...but I eat trimmed-of-fat-skinless-chicken breast, fish, a little bacon, sausage, pork loin, lean cuts of meat in moderation.
That being said, I do not fret if I have pulled pork, burnt ends, brisket, etc....moderation is still the key.
For the first 2 weeks it can be very low carb if you want fast results...but it is not sustainable. As you approach your weight loss goal, it becomes moderate carbs. Think of Keto as a SUGAR FREE diet that is also higher protein and lowish carbs.
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Tweaking_Time wrote: »moosmum1972 wrote: »
Keto is very low carb usually under 50g majority pick under 25g, high fat and moderate protein.Tweaking_Time wrote: »kommodevaran wrote: »The current surge of threads on the subject(s) in here can make it appear that way, but intermittent fasting is sticking to a certain meal schedule, and keto is extremely low carb and high fat.
Keto is not EXTREMELY low carb and HIGH fat. It is lowish carbs and high protein. For me, I need to stay under 55 grams of carbs per day...but I eat trimmed-of-fat-skinless-chicken breast, fish, a little bacon, sausage, pork loin, lean cuts of meat in moderation.
That being said, I do not fret if I have pulled pork, burnt ends, brisket, etc....moderation is still the key.
For the first 2 weeks it can be very low carb if you want fast results...but it is not sustainable. As you approach your weight loss goal, it becomes moderate carbs. Think of Keto as a SUGAR FREE diet that is also higher protein and lowish carbs.
You can't stay in ketosis on moderate carbs.3 -
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Tweaking_Time wrote: »moosmum1972 wrote: »
Keto is very low carb usually under 50g majority pick under 25g, high fat and moderate protein.Tweaking_Time wrote: »kommodevaran wrote: »The current surge of threads on the subject(s) in here can make it appear that way, but intermittent fasting is sticking to a certain meal schedule, and keto is extremely low carb and high fat.
Keto is not EXTREMELY low carb and HIGH fat. It is lowish carbs and high protein. For me, I need to stay under 55 grams of carbs per day...but I eat trimmed-of-fat-skinless-chicken breast, fish, a little bacon, sausage, pork loin, lean cuts of meat in moderation.
That being said, I do not fret if I have pulled pork, burnt ends, brisket, etc....moderation is still the key.
For the first 2 weeks it can be very low carb if you want fast results...but it is not sustainable. As you approach your weight loss goal, it becomes moderate carbs. Think of Keto as a SUGAR FREE diet that is also higher protein and lowish carbs.
You should probably read a Keto book...again.3 -
They are different things, as already stated. IF is having a smaller eating window like not eating for 18 hours and only eating during a 6 hour window. Ketosis is keeping your carb intake below your body's usual needs so you use fat and ketones for energy, and your liver produces any shortfall in glucose that your red blood cells or brain needs. A ketogenic diet is typically under 20-50g of carbs a day, but some metabolically healthy and active people who time carbs around exercise will stay in ketosis at higher levels.
I think IF and ketosis are often linked because many who try ketosis find that their appetite, or drive to eat, is greatly reduced (perhaps due to more stable blood glucose and lower insulin levels) so they naturally fall into an IF way of eating. I did. Before going ketogenic I ate every 2-3 hours because I shook and had low BG symptoms (hangry, tired, weak, headaches). Once glucose was not my primary fuel, I found I did not need to eat before 1-2 pm and that I could easily go 4-6 hours between meals.
It could also be due to the fact that ketogenic meals can have a lower volume depending on the veggies you choose (if you choose any or many) so some find it more satisfying to eat larger meals at a sitting.
Doing longer fasts will put you partially in ketosis.
True.0 -
Tweaking_Time wrote: »moosmum1972 wrote: »
Keto is very low carb usually under 50g majority pick under 25g, high fat and moderate protein.Tweaking_Time wrote: »kommodevaran wrote: »The current surge of threads on the subject(s) in here can make it appear that way, but intermittent fasting is sticking to a certain meal schedule, and keto is extremely low carb and high fat.
Keto is not EXTREMELY low carb and HIGH fat. It is lowish carbs and high protein. For me, I need to stay under 55 grams of carbs per day...but I eat trimmed-of-fat-skinless-chicken breast, fish, a little bacon, sausage, pork loin, lean cuts of meat in moderation.
That being said, I do not fret if I have pulled pork, burnt ends, brisket, etc....moderation is still the key.
For the first 2 weeks it can be very low carb if you want fast results...but it is not sustainable. As you approach your weight loss goal, it becomes moderate carbs. Think of Keto as a SUGAR FREE diet that is also higher protein and lowish carbs.
A ketogenic diet will have you consuming fewer carbs than than your body needs. Few enough that they are used almost immediately. For some people, with insulin resistance, that may be around 30 g, but for active healthy people, who time carbs around exercise, a metogenic diet can be well over 100g of carbs.
If one is in ketosis, they are eating a ketogenic diet. Low carb is generally considered to be 100-150 g of carbs. I think high carb us over 60% (maybe 50%) of your macros1 -
Simple.
Intermittent Fasting is a SCHEDULE.
Keto is a MENU.
You can use both, either, or neither. One does not conflict with the other, nor does one cause the other.2 -
A ketogenic diet will have you consuming fewer carbs than than your body needs. Few enough that they are used almost immediately. For some people, with insulin resistance, that may be around 30 g, but for active healthy people, who time carbs around exercise, a metogenic diet can be well over 100g of carbs.Tweaking_Time wrote: »moosmum1972 wrote: »
Keto is very low carb usually under 50g majority pick under 25g, high fat and moderate protein.Tweaking_Time wrote: »kommodevaran wrote: »The current surge of threads on the subject(s) in here can make it appear that way, but intermittent fasting is sticking to a certain meal schedule, and keto is extremely low carb and high fat.
Keto is not EXTREMELY low carb and HIGH fat. It is lowish carbs and high protein. For me, I need to stay under 55 grams of carbs per day...but I eat trimmed-of-fat-skinless-chicken breast, fish, a little bacon, sausage, pork loin, lean cuts of meat in moderation.
That being said, I do not fret if I have pulled pork, burnt ends, brisket, etc....moderation is still the key.
For the first 2 weeks it can be very low carb if you want fast results...but it is not sustainable. As you approach your weight loss goal, it becomes moderate carbs. Think of Keto as a SUGAR FREE diet that is also higher protein and lowish carbs.
If one is in ketosis, they are eating a ketogenic diet. Low carb is generally considered to be 100-150 g of carbs. I think high carb us over 60% (maybe 50%) of your macros
Exactly! That was my whole point...but you said it better.
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stevencloser wrote: »Tweaking_Time wrote: »moosmum1972 wrote: »
Keto is very low carb usually under 50g majority pick under 25g, high fat and moderate protein.Tweaking_Time wrote: »kommodevaran wrote: »The current surge of threads on the subject(s) in here can make it appear that way, but intermittent fasting is sticking to a certain meal schedule, and keto is extremely low carb and high fat.
Keto is not EXTREMELY low carb and HIGH fat. It is lowish carbs and high protein. For me, I need to stay under 55 grams of carbs per day...but I eat trimmed-of-fat-skinless-chicken breast, fish, a little bacon, sausage, pork loin, lean cuts of meat in moderation.
That being said, I do not fret if I have pulled pork, burnt ends, brisket, etc....moderation is still the key.
For the first 2 weeks it can be very low carb if you want fast results...but it is not sustainable. As you approach your weight loss goal, it becomes moderate carbs. Think of Keto as a SUGAR FREE diet that is also higher protein and lowish carbs.
You can't stay in ketosis on moderate carbs.
You can't stay in ketosis on high protein either. Protein is equally as insulogenic as carbohydrates:
https://weightology.net/insulin-an-undeserved-bad-reputation/
Maybe he's thinking of some other fad diet, but a keto diet is not high in protein. If it is, it's not a keto diet.3 -
moosmum1972 wrote: »Tweaking_Time wrote: »moosmum1972 wrote: »
Keto is very low carb usually under 50g majority pick under 25g, high fat and moderate protein.Tweaking_Time wrote: »kommodevaran wrote: »The current surge of threads on the subject(s) in here can make it appear that way, but intermittent fasting is sticking to a certain meal schedule, and keto is extremely low carb and high fat.
Keto is not EXTREMELY low carb and HIGH fat. It is lowish carbs and high protein. For me, I need to stay under 55 grams of carbs per day...but I eat trimmed-of-fat-skinless-chicken breast, fish, a little bacon, sausage, pork loin, lean cuts of meat in moderation.
That being said, I do not fret if I have pulled pork, burnt ends, brisket, etc....moderation is still the key.
For the first 2 weeks it can be very low carb if you want fast results...but it is not sustainable. As you approach your weight loss goal, it becomes moderate carbs. Think of Keto as a SUGAR FREE diet that is also higher protein and lowish carbs.
Isn't that Atkins? Moderate carbs will not keep you in ketosis and that's the whole point of keto.
That was my thought -- sounds like someone is confusing Atkins and keto (which is similar to Atkins induction).
Or maybe using a different definition of "moderate carbs" (IMO, that's like 40 or 45%) or high protein (40%+, although it depends on the person, bodyweight, etc.) or high fat (no question that keto macros are normally high fat -- IMO 50%+ would count as high fat) than I would.
Also, although you CAN be in ketosis at 50 g net, and sometimes higher, if you are larger or active, and I recommend that people doing keto not assume they need to be at, say, under 20 g net, it's certainly not true that the macros normally recommended for people doing keto are moderate carb or high protein.1 -
No because you don't have to be in ketosis to intermittent fast.
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No because you don't have to be in ketosis to intermittent fast.
...and you don't have to intermittent fast to be in ketosis. They're not the same thing at all.
I do 16:8 IF most of the time (just because it fits my normal/preferred eating pattern, not because I ascribe any magical wizardry to it), but my diet is far from ketogenic.1 -
stevencloser wrote: »Tweaking_Time wrote: »moosmum1972 wrote: »
Keto is very low carb usually under 50g majority pick under 25g, high fat and moderate protein.Tweaking_Time wrote: »kommodevaran wrote: »The current surge of threads on the subject(s) in here can make it appear that way, but intermittent fasting is sticking to a certain meal schedule, and keto is extremely low carb and high fat.
Keto is not EXTREMELY low carb and HIGH fat. It is lowish carbs and high protein. For me, I need to stay under 55 grams of carbs per day...but I eat trimmed-of-fat-skinless-chicken breast, fish, a little bacon, sausage, pork loin, lean cuts of meat in moderation.
That being said, I do not fret if I have pulled pork, burnt ends, brisket, etc....moderation is still the key.
For the first 2 weeks it can be very low carb if you want fast results...but it is not sustainable. As you approach your weight loss goal, it becomes moderate carbs. Think of Keto as a SUGAR FREE diet that is also higher protein and lowish carbs.
You can't stay in ketosis on moderate carbs.
You can't stay in ketosis on high protein either. Protein is equally as insulogenic as carbohydrates:
https://weightology.net/insulin-an-undeserved-bad-reputation/
Maybe he's thinking of some other fad diet, but a keto diet is not high in protein. If it is, it's not a keto diet.
Insulin levels have little to do with ketosis. Ketosis levels may dip on a very high protein diet ( well over 200-300g depending on the individual) but ketosis is caused by a lack of glucose /dietary carbs and not low insulin (although insulin will often dip on a lchf diet). You can be ketogenic on a higher protein diet. Protein Power and the old Atkins book are examples of high protein low carb (ketogenic) diets.0 -
Did old Atkins have macros? I just remember people having dos and don'ts in terms of what to eat. Lots of meat doesn't necessarily mean high protein unless one chooses lean meats.
Part of the annoyance of these discussions is that people have different ideas of what something like "high protein" means.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »Did old Atkins have macros? I just remember people having dos and don'ts in terms of what to eat. Lots of meat doesn't necessarily mean high protein unless one chooses lean meats.
Part of the annoyance of these discussions is that people have different ideas of what something like "high protein" means.
I don't believe it had specific macros, but the menu plans were higher in protein.
I think there is a lack of macro low-moderate-high definitions in general. Definitions tend to overlap a fair bit. Possibly because of people's varying size, sex, age, health and activity levels... I doubt that will be solved any time soon.
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