Advice body fat reduction
alexsusanu
Posts: 20 Member
Hello to all,
Would like some advice please about body fat and abs. Started to log in MFP and changed my diet since beginning of January this year (32 days to be precise).
I dont feel Im seeing any reduction in body fat and kinda pisses me off. I can feel my belly is a bit more flatten but still a lot of fat (I think Im at 22% body fat). Any type of advice is much appreciated, to see if Im going in the right direction or not.
Will attach two pics from day 1 and from day 30.
My calorie intake is 2400 per day, set to lose 0.5kg per week. Doing 5x5 program, 3 times a week.
Would like some advice please about body fat and abs. Started to log in MFP and changed my diet since beginning of January this year (32 days to be precise).
I dont feel Im seeing any reduction in body fat and kinda pisses me off. I can feel my belly is a bit more flatten but still a lot of fat (I think Im at 22% body fat). Any type of advice is much appreciated, to see if Im going in the right direction or not.
Will attach two pics from day 1 and from day 30.
My calorie intake is 2400 per day, set to lose 0.5kg per week. Doing 5x5 program, 3 times a week.
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Replies
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Are you losing weight? If you're losing weight, you're reducing BF%.
At .5 Lbs per week, it's going to be a very slow reduction of BF. It's not an exact thing, but I estimate that I lose about 1% BF for every 2 Lbs more or less...so 10 Lbs to get a reduction of about 5%.1 -
Yes, I set to lose some weight.
I set it to 0.5kg a week because of the 5x5 program. If I set it to 1kg per week, I feel Im not getting enough calories/energy for the day, specially on the working out days.1 -
You can see a very visible difference between the two pics. However, I don't think you are even close to 22% even in your second picture. You look fluffier than I did when I started my cut and I was at a conservative 26% (maybe a tad higher, lol). Also, during the first month it is quite common that half if not more of any weight you have lost is simply water weight from glycogen depletion and reduction in carb intake.2
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Possible. That machine from gym I use for body fat sometimes throws up stupid numbers.
Any advice where I can tweak my diet or maybe gym workout?
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Just keep in a calorie deficit and keep protein at around .8g per lbs of lean body mass. If you are doing a 5x5 that focuses on compounds it will help prevent some muscle loss.1
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Visually you're starting at the above 25% range.
There is nothing wrong with your goals or exercise or *visible progress*.
Dude: it's only been a month! You're doing absolutely fine!6 -
alexsusanu wrote: »Possible. That machine from gym I use for body fat sometimes throws up stupid numbers.
Any advice where I can tweak my diet or maybe gym workout?
Personally, I think around .5kg a week is pretty solid weight loss (cwolfman confused your .5kg with lbs). You can try a slightly more aggressive deficit - but I'd be sure to keep protein relatively high but don't undershoot your fat macro - fill in whatever you have remaining with carbs. See how you feel, but if you start losing strength it may be a sign that you went too aggressive. The more fat you have to lose the more aggressive you can be with your deficit. However, the "safe" approach you will see talked about most is moderate loss of .5kg (1lb) a week.
Most people go through a certain phase where you will look worse before you look better. Basically a smaller version of what you started with... but honestly, you look much improved in the second pic.1 -
Yes doing the 5x5
At the moment I have proteins at 60%, carbs 20% and fat 20%. Which translates to 300 grams protein, 100-150 carbs, 100-150 fat; something like that.
Fat mostly fish, tuna.
Carbs mostly fruits and lately a bit of rice, sweet potatoes.1 -
Visually you're starting at the above 25% range.
There is nothing wrong with your goals or exercise or *visible progress*.
Dude: it's only been a month! You're doing absolutely fine!
Haha thanks. Im mostly ‘worried’ so to say because I was trying to lose body fat before as well but didnt work out.
Ok fair enough before was much my mistake because I was eating everything and thinking working out at the gym will solve it.
So Im looking to see if Im going in the right direction or tweaking here and there.
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Just keep in a calorie deficit and keep protein at around .8g per lbs of lean body mass. If you are doing a 5x5 that focuses on compounds it will help prevent some muscle loss.
Yes doing the 5x5
At the moment I have proteins at 60%, carbs 20% and fat 20%. Which translates to 300 grams protein, 100-150 carbs, 100-150 fat; something like that.
Fat mostly fish, tuna.
Carbs mostly fruits and lately a bit of rice, sweet potatoes.0 -
You're over-doing the protein to no particular benefit.
Anything over 150-175-200.... is already in the plenty range.
I would personally move the rest over to carbs... especially if I was timing them to fuel my exercise!1 -
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You're over-doing the protein to no particular benefit.
Anything over 150-175-200.... is already in the plenty range.
I would personally move the rest over to carbs... especially if I was timing them to fuel my exercise!
He's cutting. During a cut you need MORE protein than you would bulking or during maintenance.
"1 gram of protein per pound of body weight (2.2 g/kg of BW) per day has been a bodybuilding rule of thumb for decades. Higher levels of protein intake, usually in the range of 1.2 – 1.5 grams per pound of body weight (2.6 – 3.3 g/kg BW) per day, are commonly recommended when “cutting” to lose fat."
I agree, 300 is probably a bit high - but then again, he didn't mention how much he weighs.
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jseams1234 wrote: »You're over-doing the protein to no particular benefit.
Anything over 150-175-200.... is already in the plenty range.
I would personally move the rest over to carbs... especially if I was timing them to fuel my exercise!
He's cutting. During a cut you need MORE protein than you would bulking or during maintenance.
"1 gram of protein per pound of body weight (2.2 g/kg of BW) per day has been a bodybuilding rule of thumb for decades. Higher levels of protein intake, usually in the range of 1.2 – 1.5 grams per pound of body weight (2.6 – 3.3 g/kg BW) per day, are commonly recommended when “cutting” to lose fat."
I agree, 300 is probably a bit high - but then again, he didn't mention how much he weighs.
Im 90kg now (maybe 89kg, havent weighted myself for 10 days).
Started at 94kg about 33 days ago.0 -
He is also in the overfat/new lifter category so has sufficient body fat to tolerate the 500 Cal cut he is in which is not coming up to over 25% of his TDEE given that it appears his TDEE is estimated at 2900+
Furthermore, 1g per lb of LEAN MASS is more than 2x RDA and has very small difference from 3x RDA in terms of results when it comes to lean mass retention. I.e. you are REALLY hitting the margins by the extra protein you're proposing. At 90kg and 25% body fat 150g fulfills 1g per lb of lean mass.
Extra carbs before/after exercise are also anabolic and possibly help increase exercise performance (amount of work done during the session).
P.S. I didn't need to know how much he weights to know that 150g is generally speaking sufficient for most people. OK: you REALLY want to push it because MO-PRO, then eat up to 200... I'm easy.
But you may want to consider that a balanced diet usually trumps most unbalanced ones and treats are good too!4 -
He is also in the overfat/new lifter category so has sufficient body fat to tolerate the 500 Cal cut he is in which is not coming up to over 25% of his TDEE given that it appears his TDEE is estimated at 2900+
Furthermore, 1g per lb of LEAN MASS is more than 2x RDA and has very small difference from 3x RDA in terms of results when it comes to lean mass retention. I.e. you are REALLY hitting the margins by the extra protein you're proposing. At 90kg and 25% body fat 150g fulfills 1g per lb of lean mass.
Extra carbs before/after exercise are also anabolic and possibly help increase exercise performance (amount of work done during the session).
I see. Then I should start increasing carbs a bit and decrease proteins.
The only reason I decreased carbs so much and increased proteins was because: when I eat carbs I feel hmm fluffy, heavy. But that is most likely my fault eating bad carbs and/or not near the workout sessions.0 -
OP, I agree with the above. You have made clear progress in the above pics, but still have a way to go. I'd suggest taking measurements (eg hips, stomach, chest) as another way of tracking your progress, that way you can see some form of improvement through either visual differences, weight loss or decrease in size.
I have personally found that progress through any of these metrics is enough to hang on to when searching for motivation to push through a tough point in the diet.
Keep going as you are, and when your weight stalls out for a week or two, then reduce calories by 100 per day, or add in a little cardio a couple of times a week. I'm sure you'll get lean in no time
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OP, I agree with the above. You have made clear progress in the above pics, but still have a way to go. I'd suggest taking measurements (eg hips, stomach, chest) as another way of tracking your progress, that way you can see some form of improvement through either visual differences, weight loss or decrease in size.
I have personally found that progress through any of these metrics is enough to hang on to when searching for motivation to push through a tough point in the diet.
Keep going as you are, and when your weight stalls out for a week or two, then reduce calories by 100 per day, or add in a little cardio a couple of times a week. I'm sure you'll get lean in no time
thanks. Do you think 100 calories a day deficit would be sufficient in that case ?
Gotta take measurements manually.
Dont want to rush much, but how long do you reckon would take me to see the abs somewhat defined ?
Not expecting 3 months but having a date of some sort makes me wanna push it more0 -
jseams1234 wrote: »You're over-doing the protein to no particular benefit.
Anything over 150-175-200.... is already in the plenty range.
I would personally move the rest over to carbs... especially if I was timing them to fuel my exercise!
He's cutting. During a cut you need MORE protein than you would bulking or during maintenance.
"1 gram of protein per pound of body weight (2.2 g/kg of BW) per day has been a bodybuilding rule of thumb for decades. Higher levels of protein intake, usually in the range of 1.2 – 1.5 grams per pound of body weight (2.6 – 3.3 g/kg BW) per day, are commonly recommended when “cutting” to lose fat."
I agree, 300 is probably a bit high - but then again, he didn't mention how much he weighs.
I have seen no evidence that this is true, it's just bro science as far as I can tell. You might have a slight increase in protein requirements, but I have yet to see research that suggests that any of us here actually need the .8g/lb level let alone beyond that. The basic point is that a person who is completely sedentary requires .4g/lb each day for replenishment and the most we can increase protein synthesis to is double that i.e. .8g/lb. Thoughts are that beyond that level might help the immune system in ways that we haven't detected yet but are not useful for skeletal muscle synthesis or replenishment.
Now, is it a problem going to 1g/lb or even 1.5g/lb? No, unless you have some medical condition, but it's not necessary to shoot for. I was able to maintain over 90% of my muscle on a rapid cut on far less than .8g.lb on a previous cut.7 -
Visually you're starting at the above 25% range.
There is nothing wrong with your goals or exercise or *visible progress*.
Dude: it's only been a month! You're doing absolutely fine!
This^! C'mon man. We're talking 32 days. Reducing body fat is a long term project. The progress is not going to be earth shattering in 32 days.4 -
alexsusanu wrote: »...Dont want to rush much, but how long do you reckon would take me to see the abs somewhat defined ?...
However long it takes you to get around 13-15% bodyfat (depending upon genetics). That's about the point where abs usually start getting "somewhat" defined (i.e., blurry, but you can see maybe the outline of a 4-pack). There's no definitive way of saying how long that will be in terms of time - but it won't be fast, so buckle in for the long term.3 -
Wheelhouse15 wrote: »jseams1234 wrote: »You're over-doing the protein to no particular benefit.
Anything over 150-175-200.... is already in the plenty range.
I would personally move the rest over to carbs... especially if I was timing them to fuel my exercise!
He's cutting. During a cut you need MORE protein than you would bulking or during maintenance.
"1 gram of protein per pound of body weight (2.2 g/kg of BW) per day has been a bodybuilding rule of thumb for decades. Higher levels of protein intake, usually in the range of 1.2 – 1.5 grams per pound of body weight (2.6 – 3.3 g/kg BW) per day, are commonly recommended when “cutting” to lose fat."
I agree, 300 is probably a bit high - but then again, he didn't mention how much he weighs.
I have seen no evidence that this is true, it's just bro science as far as I can tell. You might have a slight increase in protein requirements, but I have yet to see research that suggests that any of us here actually need the .8g/lb level let alone beyond that. The basic point is that a person who is completely sedentary requires .4g/lb each day for replenishment and the most we can increase protein synthesis to is double that i.e. .8g/lb. Thoughts are that beyond that level might...,
Lyle McDonald
“So basically we have an intake continuum ranging from about 1.5 g/kg (0.68 g/lb) as a minimum for the obese non-training individual up to a high of around 3.3 g/kg (1.5 g/lb) of protein per pound of lean body mass for very lean heavily training athletes or bodybuilders with middle ground values being found in between those two extremes.”
“So that’s what I mean by ‘adequate protein on a diet’ when I use that phrase. It’s context dependent with the primary variables being body fat percentage (as this goes up, protein requirements go down), caloric intake (as caloric intake goes down, protein requirements go up and vice versa), and activity (with regular activity generally increasing protein requirements).”
https://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/protein-intake-while-dieting-qa.html/
I do tend to get lazy and just use BW and not LBM and I can see how this can be problematic for very obese individuals.
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I just made a post on slow progress....over 3.5 years. So yeah.7
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jseams1234 wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »jseams1234 wrote: »You're over-doing the protein to no particular benefit.
Anything over 150-175-200.... is already in the plenty range.
I would personally move the rest over to carbs... especially if I was timing them to fuel my exercise!
He's cutting. During a cut you need MORE protein than you would bulking or during maintenance.
"1 gram of protein per pound of body weight (2.2 g/kg of BW) per day has been a bodybuilding rule of thumb for decades. Higher levels of protein intake, usually in the range of 1.2 – 1.5 grams per pound of body weight (2.6 – 3.3 g/kg BW) per day, are commonly recommended when “cutting” to lose fat."
I agree, 300 is probably a bit high - but then again, he didn't mention how much he weighs.
I have seen no evidence that this is true, it's just bro science as far as I can tell. You might have a slight increase in protein requirements, but I have yet to see research that suggests that any of us here actually need the .8g/lb level let alone beyond that. The basic point is that a person who is completely sedentary requires .4g/lb each day for replenishment and the most we can increase protein synthesis to is double that i.e. .8g/lb. Thoughts are that beyond that level might...,
Lyle McDonald
“So basically we have an intake continuum ranging from about 1.5 g/kg (0.68 g/lb) as a minimum for the obese non-training individual up to a high of around 3.3 g/kg (1.5 g/lb) of protein per pound of lean body mass for very lean heavily training athletes or bodybuilders with middle ground values being found in between those two extremes.”
“So that’s what I mean by ‘adequate protein on a diet’ when I use that phrase. It’s context dependent with the primary variables being body fat percentage (as this goes up, protein requirements go down), caloric intake (as caloric intake goes down, protein requirements go up and vice versa), and activity (with regular activity generally increasing protein requirements).”
https://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/protein-intake-while-dieting-qa.html/
I read this before, and I also believe he mentions that this is above what research actually supports. Nothing on NIH shows support for his higher end and I think he also admits this and says he believes that there are added benifits not shown.
Above your paragraph is this note:
While less data on this group is available, bodybuilders and athletes have long used a protein intake of 2.2 g/kg (1 g/lb) lean body mass as a generalized intake level and as folks get very lean, intakes of 3.3 g/kg (1.5 g/lb) of lean body mass may be required to stave off muscle loss while dieting. In some very extreme cases, such as the near protein only diet approach of my own Rapid Fat Loss Handbook even higher protein intakes may be required for very lean individuals.
He doesn't site any references here, it's just oppion, but it fits with his protein sparing diet. I have no issues with people eating above what they need, but there is no evidence that this is increases muscle synthesis or reduces muscle loss, even Lyle does not provide references here. I can only assume that he has no such data to support that either since he always sites it when it's available.
ETA: plus this is part of a protein sparing diet, which is low carb and high protein so he is replacing carbs with protein essentially. It's effective but no evidence I've seen shows that it is in anyway supperior in preserving muscle during a cut.
EDIT 2: did a bit more research though the journals and was able to find this:
"Protein needs for energy-restricted resistance-trained athletes are likely 2.3–3.1g/kg of FFM scaled upwards with severity of caloric restriction and leanness." (https://journals.humankinetics.com/doi/abs/10.1123/ijsnem.2013-0054)
I looked at other references but most seemed to have RDI vs 1g/lb comparisons or similar so weren't particularly relevant. So it seems leaness will increase but since it's based on FFM it's likely going to be pretty compariable to .8g/lb. So low grade diets in shorterm are on the low end of the scale and severe and prolongued at the higher end. I think Lyle is trying to add a large safety margin in based on what lifters have expereienced in the past. A resonable idea really for what he is trying to accomplish.
Oh, and it's an Eric Helms study, time to look on his site!
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I agree about the probable safety margin. I’m paranoid about losing my gains so “safety margin” gives me the tinglies. 2
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jseams1234 wrote: »I agree about the probable safety margin. I’m paranoid about losing my gains so “safety margin” gives me the tinglies.
Nothing wrong with safety margins! 1 -
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/257350851_A_Systematic_Review_of_Dietary_Protein_During_Caloric_Restriction_in_Resistance_Trained_Lean_Athletes_A_Case_for_Higher_Intakes
Just downloaded so not sure it’s findings but wanted to save it for later.0 -
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/257350851_A_Systematic_Review_of_Dietary_Protein_During_Caloric_Restriction_in_Resistance_Trained_Lean_Athletes_A_Case_for_Higher_Intakes
Just downloaded so not sure it’s findings but wanted to save it for later.
Same results as I gave above. If you are an already lean monster dieting hard for competition you might need that 1.5g/lb but most people are still well below the .8g/lb number.
I think this might be the exact same research I linked but only on another site.0 -
@Wheelhouse15 , I think the promotion of increased protein intake is for either the increased TEF, satiety or some misunderstanding of the 'better safe than sorry' mentality some have, eg Lyle MacDonald.
I agree with you that the bulk of evidence suggests that anything more than 1kg per lb of bodyweight is going to have no further tangible impact unless is is based on personal dietary preference - or is in a deficit so severe that catabolism could become a real concern (eg RFL diet protocol). Neither is likely here.
OP, no-one can really answer your question on how long it will take to get lean enough to 'see abs'. That is going to be an educated guess at best, and will be contingent on dietary adherence, your body's level of adaptation, changes in activity levels, where you store and lose fat more abundantly etc etc.
However, if you are in the low 20%s now at 90kg, and you continue to lose at a somewhat steady rate (remembering that fat loss is not a linear process), then you should see some sort of decent definition when you hit the 80kg mark (likely in about 4-5 months at a similar rate).3 -
1) you are over 22% bodyfat
2) You need consistency and patience
Keep up what you’re doing for 12-20 more weeks and report back.3
This discussion has been closed.
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