Ab workouts- When is it worth working them out
raven56706
Posts: 918 Member
Curious on this. People are always told the obvious. Abs are created in the kitchen. But if you still have layers of fat, is it worth working out at the moment? if not then when is it a good time?
i would think it wouldnt matter as its still a form of exercise but maybe i am wrong. What do you say?
i would think it wouldnt matter as its still a form of exercise but maybe i am wrong. What do you say?
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Replies
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I considering having good core muscles to be a benefit even if there is fat covering them up. That's why I've always included ab exercises in my routine.4
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Abs are created in the gym and revealed in the kitchen.
Core exercises are always worthwhile, for many reasons, regardless of appearance.3 -
raven56706 wrote: »Curious on this. People are always told the obvious. Abs are created in the kitchen. But if you still have layers of fat, is it worth working out at the moment? if not then when is it a good time?
i would think it wouldnt matter as its still a form of exercise but maybe i am wrong. What do you say?
See my profile pic for my answer to that.
I had 20ish more pounds of body fat in that photo.... 255+ LBS0 -
I agree with the above, that even if you can't see them yet, I think that having a strong core is beneficial. I never included core work until recently, and I feel it has benefited me in other things. It has helped improve form and stability on other lifts, which I enjoy.1
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I started doing bodyweight exercises a few months ago, and then about six weeks ago upped the length and frequency that I was working out and try to include 1-2 core focused workouts a week. I am still over-fat (just a hair into obese) but I've noticed distinct improvements in balance and strength across the board. Also, core workouts in particular feel great after a long day at the computer. No one will be complementing my abs any time soon (if ever), but it's still more than worth it for me.2
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It’s the best time to work them. If you want more obvious visible abs to show once all the fat is gone you need to work them while you’re still capable of building some muscle.
Abs are like any muscle group. A surplus is required to actually feed muscle growth.2 -
Is this a legitimate question?
A strong core is pretty dang important in most anything you would do in your life, so why wouldn't you work your abs (as part of your core) regardless of some excess fat?4 -
The development of core strength is always important but ab specific exercises are unnecessary, if you are doing compound lift and body weight exercises like DLs, SQTs, BPs, OHPs, Farmer's Walks, pushups, pullups and dips because they all involve your core in the process.
If you do this and lose enough weight and BF, you'll then see the result of your efforts but, even if you don't lose weight/BF, your core strength will be there regardless.3 -
"Layers of fat" is a complete irrelevance to me as I don't train for aesthetics.
I train my core (including abs but not just abs) to help compensate for a damaged back and getting strong (but hidden!) abs & other core muscles transformed my quality of life and reduced the number of bad back episodes.
It also made a huge difference to my cycling, far better endurance, comfort and also improved pedalling efficiency.
"Abs are created in the kitchen" = one of the dumbest sayings ever! How many people train in the kitchen?
(Why not simply just say abs aren't visible until you have low bodyfat? )
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I'm never going to show my abs off, my tummy is loaded with surgical scars, but that is the part of my body I am most focused on. I know a stronger core will help me overall, help with back pain, and probably help me if I need more surgery, hopefully never or at least years and years down the road.0
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i do ab exercises at the end of every workout. No one will ever see my abs0
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I always view performance as the goal and aesthetics as the side effect for abs or any other muscles. Health and fitness is far more important than if you have a six pack, and core is far more than the visible six pack, as mentioned above.0
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I feel direct core work is important for everyone. Nothing to do with aesthetics, or having a 6 pack. Having a strong core will benefit you in everything. It will strengthen your back and keep your spine healthy. That's my most important reasons for it. And, I'm also not one to say that just heavy barbell lifting is enough. Will it strengthen your core, yes, but I prefer to never let my core strength be a limiting factor in anything I do.4
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I feel direct core work is important for everyone. Nothing to do with aesthetics, or having a 6 pack. Having a strong core will benefit you in everything. It will strengthen your back and keep your spine healthy. That's my most important reasons for it. And, I'm also not one to say that just heavy barbell lifting is enough. Will it strengthen your core, yes, but I prefer to never let my core strength be a limiting factor in anything I do.
for someone that has never directly worked core (aside from compound lifts), are there certain exercises or a program targeting abs that you (or anyone) would recommend?0 -
Muscleflex79 wrote: »I feel direct core work is important for everyone. Nothing to do with aesthetics, or having a 6 pack. Having a strong core will benefit you in everything. It will strengthen your back and keep your spine healthy. That's my most important reasons for it. And, I'm also not one to say that just heavy barbell lifting is enough. Will it strengthen your core, yes, but I prefer to never let my core strength be a limiting factor in anything I do.
for someone that has never directly worked core (aside from compound lifts), are there certain exercises or a program targeting abs that you (or anyone) would recommend?
@crossfit_dottir posted a core dance workout for those who are masochists.
For lifters this article might be a good start for ideas https://www.t-nation.com/training/total-core-training-for-lifters
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Wheelhouse15 wrote: »Muscleflex79 wrote: »I feel direct core work is important for everyone. Nothing to do with aesthetics, or having a 6 pack. Having a strong core will benefit you in everything. It will strengthen your back and keep your spine healthy. That's my most important reasons for it. And, I'm also not one to say that just heavy barbell lifting is enough. Will it strengthen your core, yes, but I prefer to never let my core strength be a limiting factor in anything I do.
for someone that has never directly worked core (aside from compound lifts), are there certain exercises or a program targeting abs that you (or anyone) would recommend?
@crossfit_dottir posted a core dance workout for those who are masochists.
For lifters this article might be a good start for ideas https://www.t-nation.com/training/total-core-training-for-lifters
thank you!1 -
Wheelhouse15 wrote: »Muscleflex79 wrote: »I feel direct core work is important for everyone. Nothing to do with aesthetics, or having a 6 pack. Having a strong core will benefit you in everything. It will strengthen your back and keep your spine healthy. That's my most important reasons for it. And, I'm also not one to say that just heavy barbell lifting is enough. Will it strengthen your core, yes, but I prefer to never let my core strength be a limiting factor in anything I do.
for someone that has never directly worked core (aside from compound lifts), are there certain exercises or a program targeting abs that you (or anyone) would recommend?
@crossfit_dottir posted a core dance workout for those who are masochists.
For lifters this article might be a good start for ideas https://www.t-nation.com/training/total-core-training-for-lifters
That's a really good article, thank you.1 -
Muscleflex79 wrote: »I feel direct core work is important for everyone. Nothing to do with aesthetics, or having a 6 pack. Having a strong core will benefit you in everything. It will strengthen your back and keep your spine healthy. That's my most important reasons for it. And, I'm also not one to say that just heavy barbell lifting is enough. Will it strengthen your core, yes, but I prefer to never let my core strength be a limiting factor in anything I do.
for someone that has never directly worked core (aside from compound lifts), are there certain exercises or a program targeting abs that you (or anyone) would recommend?
Start with planks,
Phase 1. Standing or Superman.
Standing(as it sounds)-with feet shoulder width, bring light tension into your whole body from the toes through the legs, glutes, abs, shoulders, and arms(raise them into the "pushup position") Practice for 10-30 seconds. Don't tense your head or neck, and make a note of your head position.
Superman-Laying flat on your face/belly Arms extended above/over head. neck neutral as before. Bring tension as above
Phase 2. High
From Superman, instead of keeping arms above head, bring them under your shoulders and straighten them as you bring the tension. Hold for 10-30 seconds. Lower... Do not flop. Tension should come and go from your body and your posture in a controlled manner. Once 30 seconds is comfortable, work up to 60.
Phase 3. Low
From High. Lower forward to 90 degree elbow bend with chest/belly just above the ground(no touching or resting) Hold for 5-10 seconds. Raise back to High and recover as above.
Phase 4. Advanced. From High begin lifting one foot or hand without compromising the head to toe plank in the rest of your structure. Progress to both one hand and one foot(probably counter
) and then progress to bringing your hands/elbow/knees to different orientations.
Phase 5. Elite. from a 3/2 point stance go to Low and hold for 5-10 seconds and raise back up.
TL;DR Do slow pushups/One hand/One foot pushups0 -
crossfit_dottir wrote: »@Wheelhouse15 wrote: »Muscleflex79 wrote: »I feel direct core work is important for everyone. Nothing to do with aesthetics, or having a 6 pack. Having a strong core will benefit you in everything. It will strengthen your back and keep your spine healthy. That's my most important reasons for it. And, I'm also not one to say that just heavy barbell lifting is enough. Will it strengthen your core, yes, but I prefer to never let my core strength be a limiting factor in anything I do.
for someone that has never directly worked core (aside from compound lifts), are there certain exercises or a program targeting abs that you (or anyone) would recommend?
@crossfit_dottir posted a core dance workout for those who are masochists.
For lifters this article might be a good start for ideas https://www.t-nation.com/training/total-core-training-for-lifters
I still waiting for you to put on a leotard and do the core dance...
Well, the leotard is out at the cleaner...for years now. I did actually try some of it a couple nights ago. It's not too different than some of the stuff I used to do for kick boxing and Kenpo training since a strong core is important for organ protection. It's a lot more difficult than I seem to remember...no wait, it was bad back then too lol.
I'm planning on trying to work up to do much of that routine so thanks for posting. It has given me something to work towards as a fitness goal.
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crossfit_dottir wrote: »To have your abs visible you have to be lean and to get lean you have to watch what you eat.. so yes, visible abs are created in the kitchen.
Meet your spine:
It's an important part of the body yet there's a part of it that's only protected by muscle tissue,ligaments, discs and the small vertebrae bones. The muscles being the largest protector of the three.
Now when folks talk about abs they usually mean the six pack you see on the lean body builder who just ripped his T-sirt off in the gym and now has all the girls staring at him while thanking god they brought a towel to wipe down the seat of the equipment they're just using.
Those visible abs don't really matter unless you wanna be the reason girls sit on their towels at the commercial gym.
Now meet the muscles of your core.
Your core are the muscles around your spine. Those protect that bloody thing and keep you upright. They're the reason we can balance and stay stable. They're not just the six pack, they're the muscles in your lower back, your pelvis, hips and abdomen, making the "six pack" only a small part of a rather large group of muscles that work together to keep you upright.
A weak core can be the reason of back pain and bad posture among other things. Those things can often be fixed by strengthening the core muscles.
And here's what I tell most of my clients to help them make decision on how important a strong core is.
Sex... When you're dancing the tango with your partner it's gonna take a lot out of you physically. And if you've got a strong core you're gonna increase your stamina and perform better for longer periods of time.
TLDR version
Abs = made in the kitchen
Strong Core = Improves posture, fixes back pain, better sex.
Overall a good explanation, but strong abs are made in the gym not the kitchen!0 -
I don't and won't ever have a visible 6 pack...I don't have the dietary discipline to cut to that low of a BF%. I still train my core...mostly with compound lifts. I do some, but minimal direct ab work...like maybe a few sets of hanging leg raises or the ab wheel about once or twice per week.1
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Same with me, I don't think I'll ever have a real six pack but I work my core because it helps with my lower back pain and most other areas of fitness.
The real question is how much should you do. There are many exercises that will work your core indirectly, but is this enough? I try to do a good core workout at least once a week0 -
Muscleflex79 wrote: »for someone that has never directly worked core (aside from compound lifts), are there certain exercises or a program targeting abs that you (or anyone) would recommend?
Yes, but it helps to know what your goal is, and also which strength program you're following, so the exercises complement it without redundancy.0 -
crossfit_dottir wrote: »crossfit_dottir wrote: »To have your abs visible you have to be lean and to get lean you have to watch what you eat.. so yes, visible abs are created in the kitchen.
Meet your spine:
It's an important part of the body yet there's a part of it that's only protected by muscle tissue,ligaments, discs and the small vertebrae bones. The muscles being the largest protector of the three.
Now when folks talk about abs they usually mean the six pack you see on the lean body builder who just ripped his T-sirt off in the gym and now has all the girls staring at him while thanking god they brought a towel to wipe down the seat of the equipment they're just using.
Those visible abs don't really matter unless you wanna be the reason girls sit on their towels at the commercial gym.
Now meet the muscles of your core.
Your core are the muscles around your spine. Those protect that bloody thing and keep you upright. They're the reason we can balance and stay stable. They're not just the six pack, they're the muscles in your lower back, your pelvis, hips and abdomen, making the "six pack" only a small part of a rather large group of muscles that work together to keep you upright.
A weak core can be the reason of back pain and bad posture among other things. Those things can often be fixed by strengthening the core muscles.
And here's what I tell most of my clients to help them make decision on how important a strong core is.
Sex... When you're dancing the tango with your partner it's gonna take a lot out of you physically. And if you've got a strong core you're gonna increase your stamina and perform better for longer periods of time.
TLDR version
Abs = made in the kitchen
Strong Core = Improves posture, fixes back pain, better sex.
Overall a good explanation, but strong abs are made in the gym not the kitchen!
I thought I just said that...
I was responding in contrast to your statement "visible abs are created in the kitchen."1 -
i hate the expression that abs are made in the kitchen. Abs are made in the womb, we all have abs we were born with them, well unless you have a condition that you are born without them which is a real condition. Abs are bulked and strengthened in the gym or with other types of exercise. And people with very low body fat will have visible abs. Whether those visible abs are aesthetically pleasing or not is another story. Not everyone with low body fat has a healthy muscular look, its easy to have a malnourished look if all you do is diet to have "abs". So to say abs are made in the kitchen is just a stupid cliche phrase.2
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i hate the expression that abs are made in the kitchen. Abs are made in the womb, we all have abs we were born with them, well unless you have a condition that you are born without them which is a real condition. Abs are bulked and strengthened in the gym or with other types of exercise. And people with very low body fat will have visible abs. Whether those visible abs are aesthetically pleasing or not is another story. Not everyone with low body fat has a healthy muscular look, its easy to have a malnourished look if all you do is diet to have "abs". So to say abs are made in the kitchen is just a stupid cliche phrase.
Yes, but that's really overanalyzing the reason why the cliché is used. It's not denying the obvious biological origins, nor the issues of emaciation and/or anorexia in pursuit of a desired body shape, but rather it is used because most people don't, or at least didn't, realize that abs don't just appear because you work on them. You need to have sufficiently low enough body fat for them to be revealed, but I guess "Abs are revealed by hard work and diet to promote sufficiently low body fat" isn't as catchy.
I kind of got a laugh because I do this too.0 -
Muscleflex79 wrote: »for someone that has never directly worked core (aside from compound lifts), are there certain exercises or a program targeting abs that you (or anyone) would recommend?
i like front squats. overhead press makes a surprisingly big demand on your abs for stabilization. it seemed to hit my obliques when i did them 'normal' style, and my rectus etc when i was keeping my heels clipped the whole time.
less dramatic but also good are weighted carries, especially uneven weights. and pullups, oddly enough.
you should get some kind of introduction to form though, if you've never lifted before. all of these things can be great if you learn to call on your abs. but they also have lots of ways in which you can bypass your abs, which usually dumps more of the load than is safe into other zones, like your spine.1
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