Keto Diet - Yay or nay?

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  • fb47
    fb47 Posts: 1,058 Member
    edited February 2018
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    Nay, no reason for me to do keto. Why should I restrict the foods that I love when I can achieve the same result with the foods that I love to eat? And as a lifter, carbs are your best friends. You don't get the same energy at the gym without them. Carbs may not be essential for survival, but depriving yourself from carbs won't help you thrive when doing physical activities.

    Unless you're discipline sucks because of eating carbs, have medical issue given to you by a doctor or you just simply love eating only a high fat diet, there's no need for doing keto.
  • amusedmonkey
    amusedmonkey Posts: 10,330 Member
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    blambo61 wrote: »
    amusedmonkey wrote: »
    Answer is simple if you're doing it for non-medical reasons: yay if you find it easier to sustain than other macro distributions, nay if you don't.

    Edit: Oh, forgot to add how it went for me. Nope, it hindered my success because I didn't like it, was hungry on it, and had unwanted side effects. So it's definitely a nay for me, but your mileage may vary.

    I concur with this but with a variation. For weight loss/maintenance I think eating a keto style or very LC breakfast and lunch can go a long ways with keeping the calories down. Then eat carbs for dinner. I do a 16:8 IF eating schedule to maintain and if I eat a LC lunch, I can eat ad libitum for dinner and can maintain weight.

    For just good nutrition, I would not restrict carbs for the whole day because there are a lot of nutritious things that have carbs in them.

    You forgot the most important part: for some people. About 90% of the foods that satisfy my hunger for breakfast and lunch have carbs. I know it goes differently for different people but I can't imagine how I would be satisfied with low volume high fat foods without starches. I was extremely hungry on keto and gained weight because I couldn't keep my calories down, so for me it goes log ways with NOT keeping my calories down.
  • fb47
    fb47 Posts: 1,058 Member
    edited February 2018
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    mmapags wrote: »
    ACanadian22 wrote: »
    Nah for me. I have seen wonderful results in people but I have seen something else. If you do want to do it, make sure you are in it for life because every single friend I had that went off keto gained the weight back plus some. And for the love of God, I don't care if you are on it, but stop pushing it on every single person you meet. My facebook has been nuts with people and their incredible stories on how much weigh they have lost...Good for you! I don't want to buy it and stop trying to sell it to me. I am losing it CICO..And it is working for me slow but steady.

    You make 2 excellent points here!
    The first is that it is important to lose weight in a way the teaches you the behaviors to maintain a healthy weight. When I first experimented with keto 15 years or so ago, I lost 15 lbs, then went back to "my normal" way of eating and gained it all back. I didn't learn new habits and didn't want to stay on a keto diet due to it's restrictiveness.

    A good many folks who do keto get evangelical about it and it gets really obnoxious. It is not a miracle cure!!

    Yea, that's my gripe with keto fanatics (well actually all diet fanatics, not just keto) is that they preach about how great it is and how it's the best diet out there and that it's the best diet to lose weight which is completely not true. Does keto have benefits, yes, but so do other diets out there. A person shouldn't do a diet based on the benefits they hear, they should do the diet that they can stick with long term, enjoy it all while trying to lose weight at a reasonable pace (this is something a lot of people don't do...Most folks try to lose too much weight too fast for their shape and size). It already sucks that you have to restrict your calories, but it sucks even more if you hate your own diet and in the long run, chances are that you will give up. When I go on a cut, I basically do Intermittent fasting. I don't treat IF like the greatest diet of all time, I do IF simply because I prefer 2-3 big meals opposed to 5-6 small meals while still making sure that I am in a caloric deficit, that's it. It's not any better than any diet out there, it's simply convenient FOR ME (Sorry to put caps lock here, but it's just to make a point.
  • nvmomketo
    nvmomketo Posts: 12,019 Member
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    vermilionflower wrote: »
    I recently read something about how it is a good diet for people with seizures, but is not worth increased triglycerides, cholesterol, etc, if you're not trying to prevent seizures.

    Cholesterol generally improves on a ketogenic diets, and triglycerides typically fall. For most, a LCHF diet improves cardiovascular health.
  • kimny72
    kimny72 Posts: 16,013 Member
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    nvmomketo wrote: »
    vermilionflower wrote: »
    I recently read something about how it is a good diet for people with seizures, but is not worth increased triglycerides, cholesterol, etc, if you're not trying to prevent seizures.

    Cholesterol generally improves on a ketogenic diets, and triglycerides typically fall. For most, a LCHF diet improves cardiovascular health.

    I don't have them handy, but I feel it's important to mention that longer range studies involving children put on keto for epilepsy starting back from the beginning show increased risk of high cholesterol and heart disease. The decision was made that the risk was worth avoiding seizures. Most studies on adults are shorter term. Now maybe there's a difference between the affects on children and adults or between epileptic people and non-epileptic.

    As others have mentioned, it is possible the improved numbers come strictly from weight loss not the food being eaten. I'd be interested to see studies of healthy weight adults switching to keto and the effects on bloodwork over time.
  • nvmomketo
    nvmomketo Posts: 12,019 Member
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    kimny72 wrote: »
    nvmomketo wrote: »
    vermilionflower wrote: »
    I recently read something about how it is a good diet for people with seizures, but is not worth increased triglycerides, cholesterol, etc, if you're not trying to prevent seizures.

    Cholesterol generally improves on a ketogenic diets, and triglycerides typically fall. For most, a LCHF diet improves cardiovascular health.

    I don't have them handy, but I feel it's important to mention that longer range studies involving children put on keto for epilepsy starting back from the beginning show increased risk of high cholesterol and heart disease. The decision was made that the risk was worth avoiding seizures. Most studies on adults are shorter term. Now maybe there's a difference between the affects on children and adults or between epileptic people and non-epileptic.

    As others have mentioned, it is possible the improved numbers come strictly from weight loss not the food being eaten. I'd be interested to see studies of healthy weight adults switching to keto and the effects on bloodwork over time.

    The medically prescribed ketogenic diet does not resemble the average nutritional ketogenic diet. Those kids had very low protein and calorie restricted diets that were often high in polyunsaturated oils - often not great for lipid levels.

    Long term studies will be interesting when they finally get done. The longest studies I have seen so far are 2 years. All we have are long term studies with fat restriction and raised carbs, which do not have great outcomes IMO.

    There are a few researchers who have lived LCHF for many years, and they can report their own health, but it is just a bunch of n=1's.

    Dave Feldman has done an interesting n=1 experiment to show blood work can change in a matter of days when one alters their fat and calorie intake. His results have now been replicated dozens of times by others.

    This is interesting if you have a spare 40 minutes.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZu52duIqno
  • AlabasterVerve
    AlabasterVerve Posts: 3,171 Member
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    kimny72 wrote: »
    nvmomketo wrote: »
    vermilionflower wrote: »
    I recently read something about how it is a good diet for people with seizures, but is not worth increased triglycerides, cholesterol, etc, if you're not trying to prevent seizures.

    Cholesterol generally improves on a ketogenic diets, and triglycerides typically fall. For most, a LCHF diet improves cardiovascular health.

    I don't have them handy, but I feel it's important to mention that longer range studies involving children put on keto for epilepsy starting back from the beginning show increased risk of high cholesterol and heart disease. The decision was made that the risk was worth avoiding seizures. Most studies on adults are shorter term. Now maybe there's a difference between the affects on children and adults or between epileptic people and non-epileptic.

    As others have mentioned, it is possible the improved numbers come strictly from weight loss not the food being eaten. I'd be interested to see studies of healthy weight adults switching to keto and the effects on bloodwork over time.

    Are you referencing this: Effect of a High-Fat Ketogenic Diet on Plasma Levels of Lipids, Lipoproteins, and Apolipoproteins in Children?

    Back then those kids were given godawful soybean/transfat formulas and supplements - these earlier studies are hopelessly confounded in my opinion.

    Method
    All children received oral multivitamin and calcium supplementation during their time on the diet, and children fed only with formula all received a combination of Ross Carbohydrate-Free, Mead Johnson Microlipid, and Ross Polycose formulas to provide a nutritionally complete diet. Source

    jv1cb1nh1cdm.jpg


    2015: Ketogenic Diet Patients’ Lipid Profiles Improved With KetoCal 4:1 Liquid

    A retrospective chart review revealed 3 patients in our KD program with elevated lipid profiles while receiving 100% of their nutritional needs from KetoCal 4:1 powder. The patients were switched to KetoCal 4:1 Liquid and treated for >3 months. Fasting lipid profiles were obtained before and 2 to 3 months after the formula switch. All patients were on ≥4:1 ratio KD formula. Results. After changing formulas, the lipid profiles of all 3 patients improved. Source

    And from 2017, Ten years, no risk: 10 patients, 10 years – Long term follow-up of cardiovascular risk factors in Glut1 deficiency treated with ketogenic diet therapies
  • CharlieBeansmomTracey
    CharlieBeansmomTracey Posts: 7,682 Member
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    nvmomketo wrote: »
    vermilionflower wrote: »
    I recently read something about how it is a good diet for people with seizures, but is not worth increased triglycerides, cholesterol, etc, if you're not trying to prevent seizures.

    Cholesterol generally improves on a ketogenic diets, and triglycerides typically fall. For most, a LCHF diet improves cardiovascular health.

    it may improve for those who dont have a genetic cholesterol issue. mine went through the roof trying to do keto before I knew what I had was genetic. nothing fell everything raised except for HDL.( i know Im a broken record but others may need to know this if they dont already)
  • kimny72
    kimny72 Posts: 16,013 Member
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    @nvmomketo and @AlabasterVerve those are fair points and ty for bringing them up. Admittedly I am skeptical of long term keto. Hopefully if it remains popular there will be more and more long term data coming out!
  • nvmomketo
    nvmomketo Posts: 12,019 Member
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    CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »
    nvmomketo wrote: »
    vermilionflower wrote: »
    I recently read something about how it is a good diet for people with seizures, but is not worth increased triglycerides, cholesterol, etc, if you're not trying to prevent seizures.

    Cholesterol generally improves on a ketogenic diets, and triglycerides typically fall. For most, a LCHF diet improves cardiovascular health.

    it may improve for those who dont have a genetic cholesterol issue. mine went through the roof trying to do keto before I knew what I had was genetic. nothing fell everything raised except for HDL.( i know Im a broken record but others may need to know this if they dont already)

    So true. Familial hypercholesterolemia throws what would normally work right out the window. :( It really is a good thing that you figured out what was happening and what was causing it.
  • psuLemon
    psuLemon Posts: 38,395 MFP Moderator
    edited February 2018
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    nvmomketo wrote: »
    vermilionflower wrote: »
    I recently read something about how it is a good diet for people with seizures, but is not worth increased triglycerides, cholesterol, etc, if you're not trying to prevent seizures.

    Cholesterol generally improves on a ketogenic diets, and triglycerides typically fall. For most, a LCHF diet improves cardiovascular health.

    Pretty much any diet that induces weight loss improves cardiovascular health. In fact, I can only think of one thing, outside of genetics, that makes health worse.... obesity. For a large part weight loss and exercise are the biggest factors and the diet plays a very small part. I do wish there were more eucaloric studies that compared various diet strategies, because too often, the studies tend to be isocaloric.
  • nvmomketo
    nvmomketo Posts: 12,019 Member
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    kimny72 wrote: »
    @nvmomketo and @AlabasterVerve those are fair points and ty for bringing them up. Admittedly I am skeptical of long term keto. Hopefully if it remains popular there will be more and more long term data coming out!

    I'm guessing there will be more data in 5 or 10 years, but I am sure the popularity will wane by then. I think this is just the pendulum swinging the other way after so many years of low fat being promoted.

    Sort of like the gluten-free craze. It was great for celiacs and to bring awareness to other people's food sensitivities. People now know there are options, but those who don't benefit from GF foods are stepping back from it. I'm sure the same will happen with keto, in short order. I do wonder if LCHF will remain as a more mainstream option for those without health issues though.

    We'll know in 10 years I guess. :)
  • RaeBeeBaby
    RaeBeeBaby Posts: 4,245 Member
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    Nay for me. I tried it for about 10 days and never got over that gross, heavy feeling. Plus, it seriously slowed down my digestive process (sorry if tmi) but that was not a pleasant experience. All the meat and extra fat just made me sluggish. I've never been a huge carb eater (donuts, cookies, etc) but boy did I miss my morning fruit and oatmeal.

    Best way of eating for me for weight loss and overall health is to eat a highly plant-based whole foods diet. Lots of fresh veggies and fruit, whole grains, lower fat proteins and as little processed foods as possible. In addition, getting off the couch and moving my butt as much as possible was key.

    Basically, CICO but choosing what I consider the healthiest of food available and exercising as much as my old bones will tolerate.

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