Gaining muscle without a calorie surplus?

HvymetalMG
HvymetalMG Posts: 93 Member
in Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
I'm lifting 5x a week and have upped my calorie intake to about 2800-3000 a day. This is about maintance for me. However when I factor in the actual exercise and averaging 13,000 steps a day it usually puts me at a calorie deficit.

That said, do I need to factor that in to the equation and aim for even more cals to support muscle growth?

My biggest feat is gaining fat even with my routine.
Thanks

Replies

  • mmapags
    mmapags Posts: 8,934 Member
    Honestly, I think so much of this comes down to experimentation and gathering data points. Pick what you think is your true maintenance and run it for a couple of weeks and see what you get. Add or subtract calories from there based on actual results.

    There is a great thread with a link to an article by Lyle McDonald on bulking with least amount of fat gain.
    http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10587395/muscle-gain-math-bulking/p1
  • steveko89
    steveko89 Posts: 2,223 Member
    Not knowing your stats or lifting history its hard to say specifically, probably good to go through some trial/error to see what specifically works for you.

    Depending on how long you've been lifting you should still be able to make gains in a deficit; the longer you've been lifting the less of a possibility that becomes, hence the prominence of bulk/cut cycling. I know whenever I've tried to measure calorie burn from lifting, regardless of device, it gets significantly overestimated. I also don't put all that much stock in "burn" from steps. I lift full-body ~90min 3x/week and have found that "light exercise" hits really close to my TDEE using this calculator: https://tdeecalculator.net/

    Given your comment about gaining fat (I'm with you on that one) "recomping" or operating on a slim surplus might be your best bet to still get progress.



  • Wheelhouse15
    Wheelhouse15 Posts: 5,575 Member
    HvymetalMG wrote: »
    I'm lifting 5x a week and have upped my calorie intake to about 2800-3000 a day. This is about maintance for me. However when I factor in the actual exercise and averaging 13,000 steps a day it usually puts me at a calorie deficit.

    That said, do I need to factor that in to the equation and aim for even more cals to support muscle growth?

    My biggest feat is gaining fat even with my routine.
    Thanks

    Sorry, if you want to gain muscle and fear gaining fat this isn't going to be an easy ride. It will take you a very long time to do a good recomp and if you are still anxious about fat gain, and bulking is a head game, you will likely sabotage your gains to avoid gaining fat.

    I know the feeling, I've been there but if you want to gain muscle then just bulk and cut later.
  • RoxieDawn
    RoxieDawn Posts: 15,488 Member
    HvymetalMG wrote: »
    I'm lifting 5x a week and have upped my calorie intake to about 2800-3000 a day. This is about maintance for me. However when I factor in the actual exercise and averaging 13,000 steps a day it usually puts me at a calorie deficit.

    That said, do I need to factor that in to the equation and aim for even more cals to support muscle growth?

    My biggest feat is gaining fat even with my routine.
    Thanks

    Recomp is the way to go and as mentioned in the first post, its a slower process but one you can follow as you get more experienced with working with intake and your strength training.

    If your profile pic is fairly recent you look quite lean already and fat gains while at a low enough body fat percentage will be minimal if you were to be in a surplus. That said, bulking can be quite mental once you get over the fat gains hump you might find this process optimal to reach your goals.

    My question is are you reaching a calorie deficit through math calculations or that you are losing weight? If you are losing weight add on more cals, tweak and monitor it over several weeks and adjust accordingly.
  • Lean59man
    Lean59man Posts: 714 Member
    HvymetalMG wrote: »
    I'm lifting 5x a week and have upped my calorie intake to about 2800-3000 a day. This is about maintance for me. However when I factor in the actual exercise and averaging 13,000 steps a day it usually puts me at a calorie deficit.

    That said, do I need to factor that in to the equation and aim for even more cals to support muscle growth?

    My biggest feat is gaining fat even with my routine.
    Thanks

    Yes.

  • HvymetalMG
    HvymetalMG Posts: 93 Member
    Noticing deficit through tracking. I noticed I gained 3 pounds a few weeks ago. The first time I saw any gain in months and coincidentally right around the time I added some calories. Before then I was at the same weight for months.

    FYI I'm 5'9", 147.
  • Spliner1969
    Spliner1969 Posts: 3,233 Member
    HvymetalMG wrote: »
    I'm lifting 5x a week and have upped my calorie intake to about 2800-3000 a day. This is about maintance for me. However when I factor in the actual exercise and averaging 13,000 steps a day it usually puts me at a calorie deficit.

    That said, do I need to factor that in to the equation and aim for even more cals to support muscle growth?

    My biggest feat is gaining fat even with my routine.
    Thanks

    Easiest way to tell over a period of a few weeks is look to see if you'e gaining weight. If you are, you're eating in a surplus. If you are losing weight then you're eating at a deficit. Staying the same.. it's not rocket science. Steps and estimates for burns with equipment or apps just aren't the same for everyone and are rarely accurate. Only way to tell for sure is estimate using whatever method/app/machine/etc. you want, then over a period of a few weeks, judge by the scale. If you do adjust calories, be sure to wait a few weeks to make sure the adjustment actually did what you intended. Takes time and patience. But overall, if you aren't gaining a pound a week you probably aren't at a surplus for bulking. You can gain muscle at maintenance levels but it's much much slower, and can easily stall out. It's called recomp.

    Eat less junk, and watch your macros and don't fear the fat gain. It's going to happen. It took me a while to wrap my head around it but I've gained more muscle this winter than I have in the last two years just by eating at a 1lb/wk surplus and not sweating the fat gain so much. I'm now leveling off at maintenance for my current weight and using IF presently to minimize any further fat gain (the IF is an experiment, I'm not endorsing it). Once warmer weather hits my part of the country in about a month, I'll switch to about a 500-750 cal/day deficit and start cutting away the fat until summer. This is year 3 for me, year 1 and 2 I feared fat gain so I stayed at maintenance and tried to gain muscle. I gained a little, maybe enough to tone a bit, but it really didn't help much past the initial newbie gains.
  • RoxieDawn
    RoxieDawn Posts: 15,488 Member
    edited February 2018
    HvymetalMG wrote: »
    Noticing deficit through tracking. I noticed I gained 3 pounds a few weeks ago. The first time I saw any gain in months and coincidentally right around the time I added some calories. Before then I was at the same weight for months.

    FYI I'm 5'9", 147.

    I am confused with the statement saying deficit but then saying you gained 3 pounds.

    If you gain, decrease cals, monitor and tweak after a few weeks
    If you are losing, increase cals, monitor and tweak after a few weeks

    It will take a little trial and error to find your maintenance sweet spot (give yourself a few pound range).
  • Wheelhouse15
    Wheelhouse15 Posts: 5,575 Member
    HvymetalMG wrote: »
    Noticing deficit through tracking. I noticed I gained 3 pounds a few weeks ago. The first time I saw any gain in months and coincidentally right around the time I added some calories. Before then I was at the same weight for months.

    FYI I'm 5'9", 147.

    And you are worried about getting fat? You have a long way to go before you need to worry, so relax and enjoy.
  • Chieflrg
    Chieflrg Posts: 9,097 Member

    If you are fearful of gaining fat, maybe gaining muscle isn't for you right now.
  • AnvilHead
    AnvilHead Posts: 18,343 Member
    Great discussion of it here by Bret Contreras: https://bretcontreras.com/to-bulk-and-cut-or-not/
  • Spliner1969
    Spliner1969 Posts: 3,233 Member
    RoxieDawn wrote: »
    HvymetalMG wrote: »
    Noticing deficit through tracking. I noticed I gained 3 pounds a few weeks ago. The first time I saw any gain in months and coincidentally right around the time I added some calories. Before then I was at the same weight for months.

    FYI I'm 5'9", 147.

    I am confused with the statement saying deficit but then saying you gained 3 pounds.

    If you gain, decrease cals, monitor and tweak after a few weeks
    If you are losing, increase cals, monitor and tweak after a few weeks

    It will take a little trial and error to find your maintenance sweet spot (give yourself a few pound range).

    Agreed. 3 lbs is also nothing. It can be water weight, waste, etc.; I can gain 3 lbs overnight just by eating a lot of high sodium foods in a day.
  • RoxieDawn
    RoxieDawn Posts: 15,488 Member
    Spliner1969 wrote: »
    RoxieDawn wrote: »
    HvymetalMG wrote: »
    Noticing deficit through tracking. I noticed I gained 3 pounds a few weeks ago. The first time I saw any gain in months and coincidentally right around the time I added some calories. Before then I was at the same weight for months.

    FYI I'm 5'9", 147.

    I am confused with the statement saying deficit but then saying you gained 3 pounds.

    If you gain, decrease cals, monitor and tweak after a few weeks
    If you are losing, increase cals, monitor and tweak after a few weeks

    It will take a little trial and error to find your maintenance sweet spot (give yourself a few pound range).

    Agreed. 3 lbs is also nothing. It can be water weight, waste, etc.; I can gain 3 lbs overnight just by eating a lot of high sodium foods in a day.

    Definitely could be fluctuations. He seems to be keeping a really close eye on all of this, I would presume enough time has passed to determine a true 3 pound gain over many weeks, but I don't know this for sure. He definitely should reign in the gains he is making and not stress over it too much at his current weight.

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