Increasing calorie limits.
43501
Posts: 85 Member
Hi MFP forums, long time no see. I want your opinions (and experiences, if you've done this sort of thing before) on raising calorie targets, especially after a long period of eating at a steep deficit.
I am not particularly large. I have about 5~6kg left to drop, so you could say I'm struggling with the stubborn last few vanity pounds. I've been plateaued at my current weight for at least a year despite toying with diet and exercise. I eat about 1200~ cal a day (admittedly, macros are a bit all over the place, lol).
I had a consultation with my gym's most senior personal trainer (and he has a masters in nutrition) and the first thing he said (looking over my food journal + considering my body goals) was that I need to do a re-feed and start eating more. He maintained that recently he was training a bunch of women for a bikini model contest type thing and half of them started dropping bodyfat and training better with an increased daily calorie limit.
So, should I do it? Can I suddenly bump up my daily calories to 1500~ or do I need to increase it gradually? Will I have initial weight gain? Have any of you done something similar before?
I am not particularly large. I have about 5~6kg left to drop, so you could say I'm struggling with the stubborn last few vanity pounds. I've been plateaued at my current weight for at least a year despite toying with diet and exercise. I eat about 1200~ cal a day (admittedly, macros are a bit all over the place, lol).
I had a consultation with my gym's most senior personal trainer (and he has a masters in nutrition) and the first thing he said (looking over my food journal + considering my body goals) was that I need to do a re-feed and start eating more. He maintained that recently he was training a bunch of women for a bikini model contest type thing and half of them started dropping bodyfat and training better with an increased daily calorie limit.
So, should I do it? Can I suddenly bump up my daily calories to 1500~ or do I need to increase it gradually? Will I have initial weight gain? Have any of you done something similar before?
1
Replies
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If you can handle a big fluctuation on the scales then jump to 1500 straight away, if not add 100 per week.
Eat at maintenance for a couple of weeks and then drop back down to lose 0.5lb per week.4 -
The problem really is that if you're eating 1200 and not eating back exercise calories, you're just burning off lean mass as much as fat... and probably don't have enough energy to get the most of your workouts.2
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TavistockToad wrote: »If you can handle a big fluctuation on the scales then jump to 1500 straight away, if not add 100 per week.
Eat at maintenance for a couple of weeks and then drop back down to lose 0.5lb per week.
Thank so much for the quick answer. I'll give some thought to how to approach it.
And thanks for answering my next question, I was wondering if I was supposed to drop down/cut back again later.The problem really is that if you're eating 1200 and not eating back exercise calories, you're just burning off lean mass as much as fat... and probably don't have enough energy to get the most of your workouts.
Yeah, I feel this. I don't always eat back exercise calories. I'm paranoid about doing so because people always say "you're probably overestimating your workout calories and underestimating your food calories!".
I'm pretty beat most of the time and I admit that it's been a while that I've performed a workout to 100%. I still go to the gym but it feels pretty half-assed a lot of the time.
0 -
A year at the same weight is not a plateau; it's maintenance. Are you sure of your calorie count? You say "~1200" which makes me think you aren't sure. Are you tracking carefully (weighing food, recording everything)?0
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CarvedTones wrote: »A year at the same weight is not a plateau; it's maintenance. Are you sure of your calorie count? You say "~1200" which makes me think you aren't sure. Are you tracking carefully (weighing food, recording everything)?
I knew someone was going to ask this eventually, and yes, I track everything that goes into my mouth no matter how little and I use an electronic scale. The approximation is because some days it works out to 1100, some days it's 1250. I don't think it's feasible to literally have a square, exact 1200 calories every single day. But I'm never too far over or too far under.
Re: plateau vs maintenance, you could be right, but at the end of the day I want to be skinnier and I need to figure out how to make that happen. I really don't want the answer to be "drop your calories again!" because there was a period of my life I was eating at around 800-900, which is starting to dip down into eating disorder territory.0 -
TavistockToad wrote: »If you can handle a big fluctuation on the scales then jump to 1500 straight away, if not add 100 per week.
Eat at maintenance for a couple of weeks and then drop back down to lose 0.5lb per week.
Thank so much for the quick answer. I'll give some thought to how to approach it.
And thanks for answering my next question, I was wondering if I was supposed to drop down/cut back again later.The problem really is that if you're eating 1200 and not eating back exercise calories, you're just burning off lean mass as much as fat... and probably don't have enough energy to get the most of your workouts.
Yeah, I feel this. I don't always eat back exercise calories. I'm paranoid about doing so because people always say "you're probably overestimating your workout calories and underestimating your food calories!".
I'm pretty beat most of the time and I admit that it's been a while that I've performed a workout to 100%. I still go to the gym but it feels pretty half-assed a lot of the time.
You've been stuck here for a year. So, take the next 6 months to get your eating right(FEED your lifestyle/training) You'll probably go up 2-3 kilos, accept that. Once you've gotten used to feeding your training. Go back into a deficit and go for your target weight... You know that you're going to have to exercise to hit your deficit without going too low on calories. So be prepared for that, but don't forget to keep feeding your training.
TL;DR-Follow the trainers advice.1 -
stanmann571 wrote: »You've been stuck here for a year. So, take the next 6 months to get your eating right(FEED your lifestyle/training) You'll probably go up 2-3 kilos, accept that. Once you've gotten used to feeding your training. Go back into a deficit and go for your target weight... You know that you're going to have to exercise to hit your deficit without going too low on calories. So be prepared for that, but don't forget to keep feeding your training.
TL;DR-Follow the trainers advice.
2-3kg worth of gain sounds like a lot, but really, I've been stuck in the same place spinning my wheels for so long I'm willing to try anything new if it has results in the long term.
Thank you for offering your advice.
0 -
Tired but will check thread again when I wake up, again, thank you for posting.
I'm nervous about suddenly eating so much more than I'm used to and it helps to hear multiple people say it's a good idea.0 -
Tired but will check thread again when I wake up, again, thank you for posting.
I'm nervous about suddenly eating so much more than I'm used to and it helps to hear multiple people say it's a good idea.
an extra 300 cals isn't 'so much' food...
what are your stats that you think 1500 is maintenance?0 -
stanmann571 wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »If you can handle a big fluctuation on the scales then jump to 1500 straight away, if not add 100 per week.
Eat at maintenance for a couple of weeks and then drop back down to lose 0.5lb per week.
Thank so much for the quick answer. I'll give some thought to how to approach it.
And thanks for answering my next question, I was wondering if I was supposed to drop down/cut back again later.The problem really is that if you're eating 1200 and not eating back exercise calories, you're just burning off lean mass as much as fat... and probably don't have enough energy to get the most of your workouts.
Yeah, I feel this. I don't always eat back exercise calories. I'm paranoid about doing so because people always say "you're probably overestimating your workout calories and underestimating your food calories!".
I'm pretty beat most of the time and I admit that it's been a while that I've performed a workout to 100%. I still go to the gym but it feels pretty half-assed a lot of the time.
You've been stuck here for a year. So, take the next 6 months to get your eating right(FEED your lifestyle/training) You'll probably go up 2-3 kilos, accept that. Once you've gotten used to feeding your training. Go back into a deficit and go for your target weight... You know that you're going to have to exercise to hit your deficit without going too low on calories. So be prepared for that, but don't forget to keep feeding your training.
TL;DR-Follow the trainers advice.
I'm confused by what you're saying. If she's not lost or gained for a year, then it stands to reason she's already at maintenance calories whatever the number might be. I understood a refeed or diet break was meant to increase calories to maintenance for a while to allow the body to recover from a long deficit. I genuinely don't understand this advice. Can you explain your thinking about it in this particular case? TIA0 -
TavistockToad wrote: »If you can handle a big fluctuation on the scales then jump to 1500 straight away, if not add 100 per week.
Eat at maintenance for a couple of weeks and then drop back down to lose 0.5lb per week.
Thank so much for the quick answer. I'll give some thought to how to approach it.
And thanks for answering my next question, I was wondering if I was supposed to drop down/cut back again later.The problem really is that if you're eating 1200 and not eating back exercise calories, you're just burning off lean mass as much as fat... and probably don't have enough energy to get the most of your workouts.
Yeah, I feel this. I don't always eat back exercise calories. I'm paranoid about doing so because people always say "you're probably overestimating your workout calories and underestimating your food calories!".
I'm pretty beat most of the time and I admit that it's been a while that I've performed a workout to 100%. I still go to the gym but it feels pretty half-assed a lot of the time.
It's easy to see if you're eating too much though.. see how much you're losing over 6 weeks and do the math.0 -
ladyhusker39 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »If you can handle a big fluctuation on the scales then jump to 1500 straight away, if not add 100 per week.
Eat at maintenance for a couple of weeks and then drop back down to lose 0.5lb per week.
Thank so much for the quick answer. I'll give some thought to how to approach it.
And thanks for answering my next question, I was wondering if I was supposed to drop down/cut back again later.The problem really is that if you're eating 1200 and not eating back exercise calories, you're just burning off lean mass as much as fat... and probably don't have enough energy to get the most of your workouts.
Yeah, I feel this. I don't always eat back exercise calories. I'm paranoid about doing so because people always say "you're probably overestimating your workout calories and underestimating your food calories!".
I'm pretty beat most of the time and I admit that it's been a while that I've performed a workout to 100%. I still go to the gym but it feels pretty half-assed a lot of the time.
You've been stuck here for a year. So, take the next 6 months to get your eating right(FEED your lifestyle/training) You'll probably go up 2-3 kilos, accept that. Once you've gotten used to feeding your training. Go back into a deficit and go for your target weight... You know that you're going to have to exercise to hit your deficit without going too low on calories. So be prepared for that, but don't forget to keep feeding your training.
TL;DR-Follow the trainers advice.
I'm confused by what you're saying. If she's not lost or gained for a year, then it stands to reason she's already at maintenance calories whatever the number might be. I understood a refeed or diet break was meant to increase calories to maintenance for a while to allow the body to recover from a long deficit. I genuinely don't understand this advice. Can you explain your thinking about it in this particular case? TIA
She's in maintenance, but she's also depressed her metabolism. And no, I don't want to quibble about what exactly that means or looks like.I'm pretty beat most of the time and I admit that it's been a while that I've performed a workout to 100%. I still go to the gym but it feels pretty half-assed a lot of the time.
So a refeed diet break to allow her body to return to a functional maintenance and not a depressed maintenance. This will allow her to restore her physical and mental energy-and with the increased energy, it's entirely possible that even at 1500 she'll go back into a deficit as her energy returns, and her training gets back to full effort.3 -
TavistockToad wrote: »an extra 300 cals isn't 'so much' food...
what are your stats that you think 1500 is maintenance?
It is for someone with a very small appetite to begin with, and that's just a baseline increase, doesn't count eating back exercise calories.
I'm 25, female, small (160cm), 60kg and my job is completely sedentary. I go to the gym 5 times a week. At the moment it's 3 weight training sessions and 2 cardio sessions in between. I used to HIIT on those cardio days but I've been way too tired to do that for a long time and I usually just end up doing a brisk walk on the treadmill for about an hour.
My TDEEs look like this. As someone who has been eating at (and even below) my BMR for more than a year, I don't know what to make of this info.It's easy to see if you're eating too much though.. see how much you're losing over 6 weeks and do the math.
I really can't emphasize this enough: I've been stuck at 60kg for at least 365 days, lol. The only fluctuations on the scale are whatever's sitting in my stomach from eating/drinking.stanmann571 wrote: »So a refeed diet break to allow her body to return to a functional maintenance and not a depressed maintenance. This will allow her to restore her physical and mental energy-and with the increased energy, it's entirely possible that even at 1500 she'll go back into a deficit as her energy returns, and her training gets back to full effort.
Thank you for understanding. I'm starting to get the sense that not a lot of people here have been in the situation where they've eaten at/under their BMR calories for a really really long time. Which is fine. I'm just glad I haven't seen anyone suggest I drop down to 900 calories or something because I'm not defeciting enough, lol.
Because that has definitely been said to me before and I definitely developed some disordered eating after that.0 -
CarvedTones wrote: »A year at the same weight is not a plateau; it's maintenance. Are you sure of your calorie count? You say "~1200" which makes me think you aren't sure. Are you tracking carefully (weighing food, recording everything)?
I knew someone was going to ask this eventually, and yes, I track everything that goes into my mouth no matter how little and I use an electronic scale. The approximation is because some days it works out to 1100, some days it's 1250. I don't think it's feasible to literally have a square, exact 1200 calories every single day. But I'm never too far over or too far under.
Re: plateau vs maintenance, you could be right, but at the end of the day I want to be skinnier and I need to figure out how to make that happen. I really don't want the answer to be "drop your calories again!" because there was a period of my life I was eating at around 800-900, which is starting to dip down into eating disorder territory.
Assuming this is the case, nobody here would ever suggest you further lower your calories. Perhaps open up your diary or tighten up your loggin, but after a year, A diet break is in order.
Along with possibly reassessing your ultimate goal weight objectively with a mirror and some trusted friends.
But without knowing more of your history, and taking everything as best as possible at face value, you may be misestimating somewhere, but fatigue and phoning it in on your training sessions as you've described experiencing are all signs that it's a good time for a break. And a long enough break to feel better about where you're at.3 -
stanmann571 wrote: »ladyhusker39 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »If you can handle a big fluctuation on the scales then jump to 1500 straight away, if not add 100 per week.
Eat at maintenance for a couple of weeks and then drop back down to lose 0.5lb per week.
Thank so much for the quick answer. I'll give some thought to how to approach it.
And thanks for answering my next question, I was wondering if I was supposed to drop down/cut back again later.The problem really is that if you're eating 1200 and not eating back exercise calories, you're just burning off lean mass as much as fat... and probably don't have enough energy to get the most of your workouts.
Yeah, I feel this. I don't always eat back exercise calories. I'm paranoid about doing so because people always say "you're probably overestimating your workout calories and underestimating your food calories!".
I'm pretty beat most of the time and I admit that it's been a while that I've performed a workout to 100%. I still go to the gym but it feels pretty half-assed a lot of the time.
You've been stuck here for a year. So, take the next 6 months to get your eating right(FEED your lifestyle/training) You'll probably go up 2-3 kilos, accept that. Once you've gotten used to feeding your training. Go back into a deficit and go for your target weight... You know that you're going to have to exercise to hit your deficit without going too low on calories. So be prepared for that, but don't forget to keep feeding your training.
TL;DR-Follow the trainers advice.
I'm confused by what you're saying. If she's not lost or gained for a year, then it stands to reason she's already at maintenance calories whatever the number might be. I understood a refeed or diet break was meant to increase calories to maintenance for a while to allow the body to recover from a long deficit. I genuinely don't understand this advice. Can you explain your thinking about it in this particular case? TIA
She's in maintenance, but she's also depressed her metabolism. And no, I don't want to quibble about what exactly that means or looks like.I'm pretty beat most of the time and I admit that it's been a while that I've performed a workout to 100%. I still go to the gym but it feels pretty half-assed a lot of the time.
So a refeed diet break to allow her body to return to a functional maintenance and not a depressed maintenance. This will allow her to restore her physical and mental energy-and with the increased energy, it's entirely possible that even at 1500 she'll go back into a deficit as her energy returns, and her training gets back to full effort.
Thanks for explaining. That makes a lot of sense.0 -
TavistockToad wrote: »an extra 300 cals isn't 'so much' food...
what are your stats that you think 1500 is maintenance?
It is for someone with a very small appetite to begin with, and that's just a baseline increase, doesn't count eating back exercise calories.
I'm 25, female, small (160cm), 60kg and my job is completely sedentary. I go to the gym 5 times a week. At the moment it's 3 weight training sessions and 2 cardio sessions in between. I used to HIIT on those cardio days but I've been way too tired to do that for a long time and I usually just end up doing a brisk walk on the treadmill for about an hour.
My TDEEs look like this. As someone who has been eating at (and even below) my BMR for more than a year, I don't know what to make of this info.It's easy to see if you're eating too much though.. see how much you're losing over 6 weeks and do the math.
I really can't emphasize this enough: I've been stuck at 60kg for at least 365 days, lol. The only fluctuations on the scale are whatever's sitting in my stomach from eating/drinking.stanmann571 wrote: »So a refeed diet break to allow her body to return to a functional maintenance and not a depressed maintenance. This will allow her to restore her physical and mental energy-and with the increased energy, it's entirely possible that even at 1500 she'll go back into a deficit as her energy returns, and her training gets back to full effort.
Thank you for understanding. I'm starting to get the sense that not a lot of people here have been in the situation where they've eaten at/under their BMR calories for a really really long time. Which is fine. I'm just glad I haven't seen anyone suggest I drop down to 900 calories or something because I'm not defeciting enough, lol.
Because that has definitely been said to me before and I definitely developed some disordered eating after that.
I'm 62 years old, 5'5" (so a little taller, but not much) and my sedentary maintenance is calculated at something in the 1500 range at a weight very close to yours. For a 25-year-old at the same weight, 1500 seems very low. (BTW, in practice, my sedentary NEAT is more like 2000 - and I'm truly sedentary outside of intentional exercise, retired with sedentary hobbies. But that's unusually high, which is why I'm comparing the calculated estimate.)
The statement I've bolded in your post is, to me, a warning flag of depressed NEAT and compromised energy for exercise, from over-restricting. I'd endorse adding 100 daily calories once a week, or even every 2 weeks or so, to see whether you can nudge your energy level (thus your daily life calorie burn and exercise intensity) upward a bit, gradually. Ideally, keep it nutritious, definitely get plenty of protein, and emphasize progression in strength training when you can find the energy. If and as you can, push your daily nonexercise activity when energy allows: Trivial things like not sitting when you can stand, not standing when you can move, taking stairs instead of elevators, staying busy with chores at home, parking far from the building, fidgeting, using a handbasket instead of a cart/buggy for groceries at the store, etc.
At least that'd be my advice.3 -
ladyhusker39 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »ladyhusker39 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »If you can handle a big fluctuation on the scales then jump to 1500 straight away, if not add 100 per week.
Eat at maintenance for a couple of weeks and then drop back down to lose 0.5lb per week.
Thank so much for the quick answer. I'll give some thought to how to approach it.
And thanks for answering my next question, I was wondering if I was supposed to drop down/cut back again later.The problem really is that if you're eating 1200 and not eating back exercise calories, you're just burning off lean mass as much as fat... and probably don't have enough energy to get the most of your workouts.
Yeah, I feel this. I don't always eat back exercise calories. I'm paranoid about doing so because people always say "you're probably overestimating your workout calories and underestimating your food calories!".
I'm pretty beat most of the time and I admit that it's been a while that I've performed a workout to 100%. I still go to the gym but it feels pretty half-assed a lot of the time.
You've been stuck here for a year. So, take the next 6 months to get your eating right(FEED your lifestyle/training) You'll probably go up 2-3 kilos, accept that. Once you've gotten used to feeding your training. Go back into a deficit and go for your target weight... You know that you're going to have to exercise to hit your deficit without going too low on calories. So be prepared for that, but don't forget to keep feeding your training.
TL;DR-Follow the trainers advice.
I'm confused by what you're saying. If she's not lost or gained for a year, then it stands to reason she's already at maintenance calories whatever the number might be. I understood a refeed or diet break was meant to increase calories to maintenance for a while to allow the body to recover from a long deficit. I genuinely don't understand this advice. Can you explain your thinking about it in this particular case? TIA
She's in maintenance, but she's also depressed her metabolism. And no, I don't want to quibble about what exactly that means or looks like.I'm pretty beat most of the time and I admit that it's been a while that I've performed a workout to 100%. I still go to the gym but it feels pretty half-assed a lot of the time.
So a refeed diet break to allow her body to return to a functional maintenance and not a depressed maintenance. This will allow her to restore her physical and mental energy-and with the increased energy, it's entirely possible that even at 1500 she'll go back into a deficit as her energy returns, and her training gets back to full effort.
Thanks for explaining. That makes a lot of sense.
It's what is commonly, and mostly correctly, referred to as "starvation mode", but unfortunately or maybe fortunately is rarely actually encountered. It happens over the course of much time, and prolonged deprivation, and symptoms initially include reduced energy, training effectiveness decline, and ultimately can include hair loss, nail loss, muscle/bone loss. etc-and in extreme cases organ failure. If combined with poor or incomplete logging, as in my case(below) the muscle loss can be combined with fat gain as well as water retention. The good news is it can be corrected. The bad news is that because it's uncommon, it shouldn't be the first option considered. More common is underreporting/tracking of intake and expenditure. In this case, she gave good and complete background which included effective mention of how she's tracking intake and not eating back much(if any) of her exercise/training calories. The biggest clue was that she can't remember having recently felt like she got a full and effective workout. Doing treadmill walking instead of HIIT routines for example.
I was there 10-12 years back. I wasn't at that point tracking calories strictly or at all. And had inadvertently fallen into restrict/binge cycling, so my training was suffering day to day-Reduced load, speed, etc. I was going 5-6 days a week for at least an hour daily. I wasn't eating much(most days) But I was continuing to gain weight. I saw a nutritionist/dietician and after keeping a food diary for 4 weeks she identified the restrict/binge cycles and basically put me on a feeding program/schedule. My training improved, I lost a bit of weight, and got back into a regular eating pattern.2
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