Bench - moving from 531 to 5x10

mreichard · July 2018

I’ve done StrongLifts and recently 531, but my bench hasn’t really improved in like 12 months. Whenever I bench more than about 200 pounds, my shoulders hurt a lot. I’ve deloaded and sought form help, but I seem to be doing something fundamentally wrong that I can’t figure out.

Recently, in order to let my shoulders heal from constant soreness and limited ROM, I’ve switched to 5x10 at a light weight (145 today) where I concentrate on form, pause for a second at the bottom and try to use my pecs and back rather than the muscles on top of my shoulders (which I feel like I try to use at heavy weight).

My triceps have been sore from doing this, but shoulders feel way better and I feel like I may be starting to figure out form. I feel like there is a certain bar path that feels stronger and free som should pain. My thinking right now is to stick with this approach for a while gradually adding weight, do some other shoulder exercises to get stronger and not try to lift heavy for at least 6 weeks or so.

Am I wrong to try this? I’d love to be stronger, but I’m sick of feeling constantly a little bit injured.

cwolfman13 · July 2018

Frankly, I'll never have a good bench because of my shoulders and can't do low rep at a high % of weight...even just using the barbell gives me issues, so I usually dumbbell press. When I run heavy cycles, I pretty much only go heavy on squats and deads...I have to many issues with upper body from old injuries.

giantrobot_powerlifting · July 2018

How often do you bench per week?

mom23mangos · July 2018

I haven't bench pressed in over 7 months due to shoulder issues. I just started adding back in pushups and dips. I was doing OK, until I started adding a lot of volume, now I need to back off again. A trainer I'm friendly with said to just not do any pressing for now and just continue with tons of pull and straight arm strength training. I will say that by doing straight arm strength training while not pressing over these past several months, I've been able to retain most of my strength.

I've heard others stick to dumbbell press only.

deputy_randolph · July 2018

I had to re-work bench completely, b/c I had constant shoulder pain. I hired a powerlifting coach. She changed my hand position (I brought my hands in closer) and moved my "line" further down my chest. I'm pretty small and really needed a narrower grip to take the pressure off my shoulders.

Another thing that helps me is setting my hands first. I always get my hands into position on the bar, grab tight, pull my body out from the bar, then drive my upper back down and into the bench (does this make sense?). This helps me keep my upper back tight and shoulders pinned.

I went from a max bench of 100lbs to 150 by fixing my form and deloading.

mreichard · July 2018

Deputy - thanks, that’s good information. I’ve actually narrowed my hands and started bringing the bar further down my rib cage. That seems to prevent my elbows from coming out.

GiantRobot - I started doing twice per week about 3 months ago because I read that a lot of people need move volume than once per week, which I had been doing before that. Seem marginally less injured doing twice per week but still limited range of motion and always sore.

Keto_Vampire · July 2018

Don't know exactly what your goals are (powerlifter?) or bulking/wanting to improve strength?
For injury prevention purposes, I have not done bench press in years (very long limbs/weak @ pressing anyways); strictly for bodybuilding/strength, hammer press machine is a good option hitting either high reps/light or low reps/heavy.

Strangely, have been liking incorporating reverse grip flat bench so far (machine/dumbbells, light weight/high reps) for slightly more targeted upper chest vs incline chest press. Very humbling how weak one is compared to traditional bench press

giantrobot_powerlifting · July 2018

mreichard wrote: »

GiantRobot - I started doing twice per week about 3 months ago because I read that a lot of people need move volume than once per week, which I had been doing before that. Seem marginally less injured doing twice per week but still limited range of motion and always sore.

This is what I suggest without having video to analyze your form, but I'd reckon that the way you bench you are putting a lot of internal rotation on you shoulders.

As far as programming -- and without spending a huge amount of my unbillable time -- its still possible to make gains on 531, you just have to increase the volume. 5x10 ain't going to get you anywhere, except probably injured and with the way you currently bench, its a good bet you will.

On the 85% week, do 4x5 or 5x5 on the last workset.
On the 90% week, do 3x3, or 4x3 on the last workset.
On the 95% week, do 3x3 on the last workset. Do the joker sets on this week. No AMRAP sets.

Bench Day 1

Do 351 configuration.
Go Six weeks if you can. Never deload .
NO AMRAP on your day's heaviest sets. In fact, probably best practice to never exceed 5 reps.
For every week, backdown the last two worksets , pick a scheme like 3x5, 3x3 etc, whatever you can reasonably do.
Then after you do all those sets, take your last warm-up set and AMRAP that
Once you can do all that work, with good form, increase the 351 sets, the joker sets, the backdown sets and the warm-up AMRAP set. And start over again.
EXAMPLE: Warmups: 135x5, 205x4, 225x3, 255x2, 275x1, 295x1. Worksets: 300x3x3, 295x3x3, 275x3x5, 225xAMRAP.

Bench Day #2

Take a weight 75-80% and go 5x5 or 5x6.
Once you can do that increase by 2.5kgs/5 lbs.
EXAMPLE: Warmups: 135x5, 205x4, 225x3, 255x2, 275x1, 295x1. Worksets: 255x5x5.

As far as soreness, make sure you've identified if the the soreness is DOMS or pain. Adding accessory pulls like face pullers (cable and banded), Pendlay, Barbell, rows, inverted rows, etc, will be your best friend.

Erik8484 · July 2018

Fixing your bench press form is a good idea. Rather than just trying to feel it out by pushing lower weights, it is probably worthwhile to either read something reputable (e.g. Starting Strength: Basic Barbell Training) re: bench press form, or watch something reputable.

It may also be worthwhile to see a physiotherapist, as there may be some shoulder rehab type exercises or stretches that could help with your pain.

mreichard · July 2018

Thanks everyone for the replies. I realize that I should have been clearer in my initial post -- the pain I'm talking about is sharp, sudden pain the shoulder muscles as I'm lifting. Last time I did 3x5 @205, the first set was fine but on the second rep of the second set, I had sharp pain at the top of my shoulder that felt a bit like something in my shoulder tore. I finished the set, rested 5 minutes and did the 3rd set, but shoulder hurt whenever I moved that arm for the next couple of days, and whenever I did any other exercises for the rest of the week (deadlifts, curls, etc.). Variations of this have been going on for about 12 months. I've tried stopping immediately when there was pain and taking a week or two weeks off from pressing which hasn't changed anything. I've had a trainer watch me and give me cues, I've read starting strength and watched a couple of dozen videos about bench form generally and benching without pain specifically. I've deloaded repeatedly. I've tried working through the pain.

None of this has changed the pattern. I'm clearly doing something basic wrong, but I haven't had success figuring it out. The wisdom I'm hearing from people who know more than me is that light weight/high reps is not the answer. So, once I feel 100% healed I'll post a video with slightly more weight and see if anyone sees anything. And/or I'll look for a trainer with more powerlifting knowledge (trainers in my gym are strong AF, but the routines I see them do with their clients don't include any full body barbell exercises, so I'm not sure they are the guys to hire). In the meantime, I may also make a PT appointment. Failing all that, I may move to doing dumbbell bench presses.

mutantspicy · July 2018

You need to fix your form first. Lower weight but not so low that you are just throwing the weight around. You need to learn the proper form with a decent load. It sounds like to me you need to lower the line of your press. I don't know where the bar sits relative to your pecs and shoulders but for me when the bar is just under my pecs on the edge of the nipples thats where I get the best pec engagement. As weights get heavier, sometimes your line can slip up toward you neck a little and that can put pressure on your shoulders. Perhaps video yourself. then compare to some youtube videos to see where you stand. Also look at the stronglift site for proper positions. In addition, instead doing low weight, perhaps try medium weight, and instead of high reps try really slow and controlled reps. I know you are on a program, but what you describe needs to be fixed before you hurt yourself. That needs to be priority.

jseams1234 · July 2018

I've had similar pain in my shoulder for the last year. I've really ramped up my warm-up for bench and that seems to have really helped. It's a slow ramp to my working weights - even if I'm only going 70% of 1RM but especially if I'm on a power day.

Also, I found that my joint issues where a lot more pronounced when I was cutting and they didn't really start to improve until I moved into a bulk again. Are you cutting or recomping? If so it could also explain your bench plateau. It's virtually impossible for me to advance most of my pushes unless I'm in a real bulk.

Chieflrg · July 2018

Many people have a stalled bench on 5/3/1. I was one of them. Swithing to 5x10 might give you some increased tonage though the average intensity of the volume might not be appropriate for long term depending how you respond to that type of training. It usually isn't for most lifters.

Regardless I'm not a fan on such huge transitions in rep schemes. You probably be better off adding a extra day assuming you are following 5/3/1 as written and giving the intensity a slight bump the other two.

Bench - moving from 531 to 5x10

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