Live Below The Line- 31 Day Challenge
Leslierussell4134
Posts: 376 Member
Hello All,
My name is Leslie and this post is to document mine and my husbands efforts to bring awareness to international hunger and live below the global poverty line of $1.90 per person per day.
We decided to do this challenge last month, but took some time to plan and gear up to the idea. Approx 780 million people face extreme poverty everyday, many more depending on who's calculating. This challenge is intended to simulate, not a complete, perfect comparison of the challenges many face feeding themselves daily. The world bank has set an amount of $1.90 per person per day as the poverty line, and for the purposes of this challenge this is the figure we will use.
We changed our rules a few times, with some great feedback from my original post in the Health and Debate section of the community. Feel free to read to get more background. Our rules are as follows.
1. Cost will be determined by food consumed, allowing for bulk items to be purchased ahead of time, stored and frozen.
2. Nutrition requirements- Leslie 31 yr female, > or = 1200, 46g protien
3. Nutrition requirements- Sam 33 yr Male, > or = 1600, 56g protien
4. Food from our own home garden will NOT be considered into daily budget. We are urban farmers and have a few plants of our own, nothing substantional.
5. My diary will remain pubic for the duration of the challenge.
6. A daily reflection will be written to give insight on how we felt, presence of absence of hunger, mood etc.
7. Weekly Vitamin B12 supplementation to be accounted for out of budget, as this is a plant based challenge. (I'm already plant based, Sam is transitioning).
8. Free food will be accepted if outside our places or employment and readily available to all members of the community.
Almost forgot! Our grocery money saved will be donated to a state run, senior skilled nursing facility down the street from us.
Hope you enjoy our experience, nerves and excitement are the first feelings of the morning.
Leslie
My name is Leslie and this post is to document mine and my husbands efforts to bring awareness to international hunger and live below the global poverty line of $1.90 per person per day.
We decided to do this challenge last month, but took some time to plan and gear up to the idea. Approx 780 million people face extreme poverty everyday, many more depending on who's calculating. This challenge is intended to simulate, not a complete, perfect comparison of the challenges many face feeding themselves daily. The world bank has set an amount of $1.90 per person per day as the poverty line, and for the purposes of this challenge this is the figure we will use.
We changed our rules a few times, with some great feedback from my original post in the Health and Debate section of the community. Feel free to read to get more background. Our rules are as follows.
1. Cost will be determined by food consumed, allowing for bulk items to be purchased ahead of time, stored and frozen.
2. Nutrition requirements- Leslie 31 yr female, > or = 1200, 46g protien
3. Nutrition requirements- Sam 33 yr Male, > or = 1600, 56g protien
4. Food from our own home garden will NOT be considered into daily budget. We are urban farmers and have a few plants of our own, nothing substantional.
5. My diary will remain pubic for the duration of the challenge.
6. A daily reflection will be written to give insight on how we felt, presence of absence of hunger, mood etc.
7. Weekly Vitamin B12 supplementation to be accounted for out of budget, as this is a plant based challenge. (I'm already plant based, Sam is transitioning).
8. Free food will be accepted if outside our places or employment and readily available to all members of the community.
Almost forgot! Our grocery money saved will be donated to a state run, senior skilled nursing facility down the street from us.
Hope you enjoy our experience, nerves and excitement are the first feelings of the morning.
Leslie
18
Replies
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wow! what an amazing challenge.1
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Looking forward to your posts.
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Interesting!
I challenged myself some years back to see if I could live on the max food stamps, which was $200/month at the time. I can.
I'm not sure you are fairly challenging yourself, however. When I was in Costa Rico, we bought huge bags of rice and beans for much less than they would cost here in the US. You're giving yourself a global poverty line budget but presumably shopping in first world stores.6 -
Found your thread in Debate: https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10681675/live-below-the-line/p1 and whole heartedly agree with @Aaron_K123's point:Aaron_K123 wrote: »Applying the global poverty level to buying groceries in California is probably going to make it 10x harder than it should be.
Income in subsaharan Africa averages close to around $1.90 a day and that is total not just for food. That said their cost of living expenses are also considerably cheaper than what you'd get in Cali. If you tried to apply that income to your location you'd have a harder time.
If your point of doing this is you want to see what it is like to live below poverty in your locality you might want to use the poverty line for your locality rather than the amount that defines extreme poverty on a global scale.1 -
kshama2001 wrote: »Found your thread in Debate: https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10681675/live-below-the-line/p1 and whole heartedly agree with @Aaron_K123's point:Aaron_K123 wrote: »Applying the global poverty level to buying groceries in California is probably going to make it 10x harder than it should be.
Income in subsaharan Africa averages close to around $1.90 a day and that is total not just for food. That said their cost of living expenses are also considerably cheaper than what you'd get in Cali. If you tried to apply that income to your location you'd have a harder time.
If your point of doing this is you want to see what it is like to live below poverty in your locality you might want to use the poverty line for your locality rather than the amount that defines extreme poverty on a global scale.
This direct comparison would not be possible, and entirely too easy. The poverty live in California is over $21 per day and there is no way to simulate my total buying power: rent/ morgage/ healthcare/ food etc into that amount of money. This challenge is designed as food by mouth. Already today I've planned 3 meals for $1.16, and have adaqute nutrients. So $21 per day, I'd be eating like a king, and there would be no realization of anything close to poverty.0 -
I will post in the "food notes" of my diary for cost of each item and meal totals. Nutrient totals are looking good, so far, but I have a significant amount of money left over. Will decide with my hubs what to do with that later.0
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Leslierussell4134 wrote: »I will post in the "food notes" for cost of each item and meal totals. Nutrients totals are looking good, so far, but I have a significant amount of money left over. Will decide with my hubs what to do with that later.
He wants a beer
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kshama2001 wrote: »Leslierussell4134 wrote: »I will post in the "food notes" for cost of each item and meal totals. Nutrients totals are looking good, so far, but I have a significant amount of money left over. Will decide with my hubs what to do with that later.
He wants a beer
Told him we should learn to make rice wine at the very least!! I seriously think we will attempt it!0 -
Leslierussell4134 wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »Found your thread in Debate: https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10681675/live-below-the-line/p1 and whole heartedly agree with @Aaron_K123's point:Aaron_K123 wrote: »Applying the global poverty level to buying groceries in California is probably going to make it 10x harder than it should be.
Income in subsaharan Africa averages close to around $1.90 a day and that is total not just for food. That said their cost of living expenses are also considerably cheaper than what you'd get in Cali. If you tried to apply that income to your location you'd have a harder time.
If your point of doing this is you want to see what it is like to live below poverty in your locality you might want to use the poverty line for your locality rather than the amount that defines extreme poverty on a global scale.
This direct comparison would not be possible, and entirely too easy. The poverty live in California is over $21 per day and there is no way to simulate my total buying power: rent/ morgage/ healthcare/ food etc into that amount of money. This challenge is designed as food by mouth. Already today I've planned 3 meals for $1.16, and have adaqute nutrients. So $21 per day, I'd be eating like a king, and there would be no realization of anything close to poverty.
Well, that $21 includes rent, etc., right? So you'd have to factor that out.
Or what about using the foods stamps benefit for CA? I'm sure there's some correlation to the national or local poverty line and benefits.
ETA: CalFresh is for people at or under 200% of the Federal Poverty Line http://www.cdss.ca.gov/inforesources/CDSS-Programs/CalFresh/Eligibility-and-Issuance-Requirements0 -
So if you took the Maximum CalFresh Allotment for a family of 2 of $352, and divided it by half to get you from 200% of the federal poverty level to 100%, divided that by 2, and that by 30, you'd get $5.87 per person per day.
When we bought rice and beans in Costa Rico, we were getting them directly from the farmers. No transportation costs, no supermarket markup.2 -
Good Luck Op - regardless of how you arrived at the figure to use, (and semantics of that isnt the important part) it is obviously much less than your normal costs and I think it is always good to challenge oursleves like this and reduce our spending and realise how much we take for granted in the first world.3
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kshama2001 wrote: »So if you took the Maximum CalFresh Allotment for a family of 2 of $352, and divided it by half to get you from 200% of the federal poverty level to 100%, divided that by 2, and that by 30, you'd get $5.87 per person per day.
When we bought rice and beans in Costa Rico, we were getting them directly from the farmers. No transportation costs, no supermarket markup.
So we though of this as well, but at over $5 per day, there really isn't a challenge. Over $350 per month for 2 people, I mean many people do that and less. I believe this country provides a lot of those who don't have the means to provide for themselves, but this is also a first world country. This challenge is meant to simulate extreme poverty, third world poverty. If you look up the challenge, AU and NZ have a $2 a day budget. other countries have similar guidelines, although many of them do it for just 5 days at a time, once per year.
So far I'm realizing how well I can eat with minimal means. It just takes a lot of planning.1 -
End of Day 1:
Today was great, wasn't hungry, so this was the first surprise.
Stats:
Calories- Over 1500
Protien 48g
Fiber 42g
Fat 25g
Carbs...a lot! Over 250g
Cost $1.44
My day felt full, I wasn't deprived, but I did long past a favorite restaurant on the drive home, not hungry, just routine.
Meal prep was last night and it took roughly 3 hours to cook the first 3 days of food. We actually argued a lot while meal prepping, because cooking the beans for 2 hours during the heat of the day made the kitchen almost unbearable to be in. We got through it, but it was a reminded that meal prep is tedious.
Sam didn't finish his meals today, said he was busy at work and didn't have time to eat breakfast so he ate breakfast for lunch. I know he under ate his calorie and protien goals, but was so tired he had a small dinner and went to bed early. We talked about eating breakfast before work to make sure he has enough fuel if he doesn't get time (We both work medical and aren't guaranteed our breaks). He also complained about heart burn most of the day, wondering if it was from the banana/cinnamon combo? Or maybe he's used to eating more and his acid levels are higher than average as he's had trouble with GERD for some time.
All in all a good day and I was significantly under budget, kind of a crazy realization. Tomorrow I might focus on getting a few extra grams of protien while minimizing the calorie increase...hard to do with a cheap carb based diet. Wishing I was able to afford Quinoa!!
Oh...my frozen avocado idea seemed to work, but I let it defrost too long in the fridge and it got brown and yucky...Sam ate my portion, I'll try again tomorrow, but really need a food saver to do it right.
Thanks for following, looking forward to Day 2
Leslie2 -
Really interesting to see how much you can eat as a lot of the Live Below the Line sample meal plans I've seen have been pretty basic and boring so it's great to see some interesting and tasty ideas. Are you repeating a lot of the same meals across the week or trying to add as much variety as you can? Do you normally eat the same things every day or are you more used to a variety of meals?0
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I dont think that is fair 100 proof - OP said quite clearly she knows this is an incomplete comparison.
The point is to challenge yourself eat thriftily for one month (and to donate saved money) - it isnt to simulate everything about poverty - homelessness etc6 -
Leslierussell4134 wrote: »End of Day 1:
Today was great, wasn't hungry, so this was the first surprise.
Stats:
Calories- Over 1500
Protien 48g
Fiber 42g
Fat 25g
Carbs...a lot! Over 250g
Cost $1.44
My day felt full, I wasn't deprived, but I did long past a favorite restaurant on the drive home, not hungry, just routine.
Meal prep was last night and it took roughly 3 hours to cook the first 3 days of food. We actually argued a lot while meal prepping, because cooking the beans for 2 hours during the heat of the day made the kitchen almost unbearable to be in. We got through it, but it was a reminded that meal prep is tedious.
Sam didn't finish his meals today, said he was busy at work and didn't have time to eat breakfast so he ate breakfast for lunch. I know he under ate his calorie and protien goals, but was so tired he had a small dinner and went to bed early. We talked about eating breakfast before work to make sure he has enough fuel if he doesn't get time (We both work medical and aren't guaranteed our breaks). He also complained about heart burn most of the day, wondering if it was from the banana/cinnamon combo? Or maybe he's used to eating more and his acid levels are higher than average as he's had trouble with GERD for some time.
All in all a good day and I was significantly under budget, kind of a crazy realization. Tomorrow I might focus on getting a few extra grams of protien while minimizing the calorie increase...hard to do with a cheap carb based diet. Wishing I was able to afford Quinoa!!
Oh...my frozen avocado idea seemed to work, but I let it defrost too long in the fridge and it got brown and yucky...Sam ate my portion, I'll try again tomorrow, but really need a food saver to do it right.
Thanks for following, looking forward to Day 2
Leslie
Did I see somewhere you have a crockpot? Unsoaked black beans cook perfectly in mine overnight on Low. I believe the cooking time is two hours shorter if they've been soaked.1 -
kshama2001 wrote: »Leslierussell4134 wrote: »End of Day 1:
Today was great, wasn't hungry, so this was the first surprise.
Stats:
Calories- Over 1500
Protien 48g
Fiber 42g
Fat 25g
Carbs...a lot! Over 250g
Cost $1.44
My day felt full, I wasn't deprived, but I did long past a favorite restaurant on the drive home, not hungry, just routine.
Meal prep was last night and it took roughly 3 hours to cook the first 3 days of food. We actually argued a lot while meal prepping, because cooking the beans for 2 hours during the heat of the day made the kitchen almost unbearable to be in. We got through it, but it was a reminded that meal prep is tedious.
Sam didn't finish his meals today, said he was busy at work and didn't have time to eat breakfast so he ate breakfast for lunch. I know he under ate his calorie and protien goals, but was so tired he had a small dinner and went to bed early. We talked about eating breakfast before work to make sure he has enough fuel if he doesn't get time (We both work medical and aren't guaranteed our breaks). He also complained about heart burn most of the day, wondering if it was from the banana/cinnamon combo? Or maybe he's used to eating more and his acid levels are higher than average as he's had trouble with GERD for some time.
All in all a good day and I was significantly under budget, kind of a crazy realization. Tomorrow I might focus on getting a few extra grams of protien while minimizing the calorie increase...hard to do with a cheap carb based diet. Wishing I was able to afford Quinoa!!
Oh...my frozen avocado idea seemed to work, but I let it defrost too long in the fridge and it got brown and yucky...Sam ate my portion, I'll try again tomorrow, but really need a food saver to do it right.
Thanks for following, looking forward to Day 2
Leslie
Did I see somewhere you have a crockpot? Unsoaked black beans cook perfectly in mine overnight on Low. I believe the cooking time is two hours shorter if they've been soaked.
Yes I do and I should probably break that out. I also have a pressure cooker, but was using that for the soup I made the same day. Wanted to get it down quickly, but maybe I'll use the crock pot next time, good idea.0 -
A tad hungry today...no snacks until later...0
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Thank you for the few of you reading. It's been fun coming home at the days end to report back on this challenge.
I'd like to start by apologizing if I truly offended anyone, that's not me, I'm kind and cringe if I think I've hurt someone's feelings. I guess I wanted to share this experience with others for enlightenment, motivation and fun. However, some are intent on pointing out what my motivations must be or what they should be. Too late, already started, and this is what my challenge is. I'd gladly read yours for 5 days or month if you have suggestions on how to do it better or different. Honestly, there are 12 months in a year...we could get really creative.
Enough of all that, thanks to those who are still with me.
DAY 2
More calories, a few more grams of protien and still under budget. I was hungry later in the day and decided to make a version of my grandmothers Sopa De Fideos. Basically it's a Mexican soup with noodles, tomatoes, onion and chicken bouillon. No chicken here, so I seasoned with spices and salt. Added some beet greens to the broth for extra potassium...husband approved. Otherwise all my other food was the same as yesterday, but I'm not complaining....yet.
I think someone asked me if I usually ate the same things daily and if it was going to bother me if meals became repetitive. It might, because I do eat a lot of variety. We'll reassess around day 10.
Sam said he misses crunchy textures, kept wanting to munch on something. He's thinking of dehydrating some carrots tomorrow, we'll see what happens there.
Honestly I'm more used to snacking than I am hungry, but I had a few stomach growls today. Was around a prediactric patient who kept wanting me to share his twizzlers and crackers, I of course, refused.
Daily Total $1.19
Until tomorrow,
Leslie3 -
Hi Leslie.
Yes, soup can be one of the cheapest things to make and easiest too if you have a crockpot.
I read of a recipe called rubbish soup - which is basically fancy term for throw in any veg parts that you dont eat instead of throwing them in to the rubbish - eg celery leaves, cauliflower stalks etc.
We tend to throw these parts out but they are perfectly edible. Add some stock - a few stock cubes would do and very cheap. or a bone from butchers if you eat meat and take it out when serving..
When everything cooked, take bone out if one in there, mash up with one of those hand held blenders and bingo - easy peasy cheapie vegetable and/or meat flavour soup3 -
I love the idea of this and have been thinking about doing it for a while, but think my partner would need a bit more convincing! I think it really highlights how much a lot of us take for granted in terms of food budget as well as the selection of food/availability to most of us (as in those of us who aren't living on/below the poverty line). We often have budget dinner days but this would be much more challenging over a month, not so much in terms of getting enough calories but getting a healthy balance too. Looking forward to following the rest of your challenge OP, good luck 2
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This is easy in the UK if you're able to cook with fresh produce and make a bit of an effort. I spend about £90-100 per month on all groceries, but this includes artisan bread every Saturday or Sunday, snacks and a few other luxurious items. Cutting these out I could easily eat on a lot less.1
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Leslierussell4134 wrote: »Thank you for the few of you reading. It's been fun coming home at the days end to report back on this challenge.
I'd like to start by apologizing if I truly offended anyone, that's not me, I'm kind and cringe if I think I've hurt someone's feelings. I guess I wanted to share this experience with others for enlightenment, motivation and fun. However, some are intent on pointing out what my motivations must be or what they should be. Too late, already started, and this is what my challenge is. I'd gladly read yours for 5 days or month if you have suggestions on how to do it better or different. Honestly, there are 12 months in a year...we could get really creative.
Enough of all that, thanks to those who are still with me.
DAY 2
More calories, a few more grams of protien and still under budget. I was hungry later in the day and decided to make a version of my grandmothers Sopa De Fideos. Basically it's a Mexican soup with noodles, tomatoes, onion and chicken bouillon. No chicken here, so I seasoned with spices and salt. Added some beet greens to the broth for extra potassium...husband approved. Otherwise all my other food was the same as yesterday, but I'm not complaining....yet.
I think someone asked me if I usually ate the same things daily and if it was going to bother me if meals became repetitive. It might, because I do eat a lot of variety. We'll reassess around day 10.
Sam said he misses crunchy textures, kept wanting to munch on something. He's thinking of dehydrating some carrots tomorrow, we'll see what happens there.
Honestly I'm more used to snacking than I am hungry, but I had a few stomach growls today. Was around a prediactric patient who kept wanting me to share his twizzlers and crackers, I of course, refused.
Daily Total $1.19
Until tomorrow,
Leslie
Hi Leslie - I love what you're doing, am just pushing back because I think you're being unnecessarily hard on yourself. But you disagree, and that's fine, I respect that
Re: variety - in 2004, I was in charge of making lunch at a tiny yoga retreat center in very remote Costa Rico. I had a very limited pantry. Our staples were rice, black beans, lentils, and pasta. Fortunately, I did have a wide range of spices, fruits, and vegetables, and that's how I created variety.
My favorite concoction was coconut curry lentils with mangoes and rice, mmmm. We didn't pay for the coconuts or mangoes - we just picked them up off the ground.
The rice and beans were delivered by local farmers on horseback. I'm really bummed I can't remember how much they cost; I just have a memory of these giant bags being really cheap.1 -
kshama2001 wrote: »Leslierussell4134 wrote: »Thank you for the few of you reading. It's been fun coming home at the days end to report back on this challenge.
I'd like to start by apologizing if I truly offended anyone, that's not me, I'm kind and cringe if I think I've hurt someone's feelings. I guess I wanted to share this experience with others for enlightenment, motivation and fun. However, some are intent on pointing out what my motivations must be or what they should be. Too late, already started, and this is what my challenge is. I'd gladly read yours for 5 days or month if you have suggestions on how to do it better or different. Honestly, there are 12 months in a year...we could get really creative.
Enough of all that, thanks to those who are still with me.
DAY 2
More calories, a few more grams of protien and still under budget. I was hungry later in the day and decided to make a version of my grandmothers Sopa De Fideos. Basically it's a Mexican soup with noodles, tomatoes, onion and chicken bouillon. No chicken here, so I seasoned with spices and salt. Added some beet greens to the broth for extra potassium...husband approved. Otherwise all my other food was the same as yesterday, but I'm not complaining....yet.
I think someone asked me if I usually ate the same things daily and if it was going to bother me if meals became repetitive. It might, because I do eat a lot of variety. We'll reassess around day 10.
Sam said he misses crunchy textures, kept wanting to munch on something. He's thinking of dehydrating some carrots tomorrow, we'll see what happens there.
Honestly I'm more used to snacking than I am hungry, but I had a few stomach growls today. Was around a prediactric patient who kept wanting me to share his twizzlers and crackers, I of course, refused.
Daily Total $1.19
Until tomorrow,
Leslie
Hi Leslie - I love what you're doing, am just pushing back because I think you're being unnecessarily hard on yourself. But you disagree, and that's fine, I respect that
Re: variety - in 2004, I was in charge of making lunch at a small retreat center in very remote Costa Rico. I had a very limited pantry. Our staples were rice, black beans, lentils, and pasta. Fortunately, I did have a wide range of spices, fruits, and vegetables, and that's how I created variety.
My favorite concoction was coconut curry lentils with mangoes and rice, mmmm. We didn't pay for the coconuts or mangoes - we just picked them up off the ground.
The rice and beans were delivered by local farmers on horseback. I'm really bummed I can't remember how much they cost; I just have a memory of these giant bags being really cheap.
That all sounds amazing, and now I'm wishing there was a coconut tree near by...mangos are my favorite! We are getting a little produce from our garden most days, and I did plant some micro greens from seeds I collected. Hoping they start piping up in the next few days for a poor man's salad.
And just to clarify, I've loved your feed back. Thank you.0 -
firlena227 wrote: »I love the idea of this and have been thinking about doing it for a while, but think my partner would need a bit more convincing! I think it really highlights how much a lot of us take for granted in terms of food budget as well as the selection of food/availability to most of us (as in those of us who aren't living on/below the poverty line). We often have budget dinner days but this would be much more challenging over a month, not so much in terms of getting enough calories but getting a healthy balance too. Looking forward to following the rest of your challenge OP, good luck
Absolutely! Thanks for your response and encouragement.
I know you're partner might have reservations, but maybe you all could do the 5 day challenge to start? It's been a real eye opener, and I'm excited to see what the months end will teach us. ❤1 -
Leslierussell4134 wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »So if you took the Maximum CalFresh Allotment for a family of 2 of $352, and divided it by half to get you from 200% of the federal poverty level to 100%, divided that by 2, and that by 30, you'd get $5.87 per person per day.
When we bought rice and beans in Costa Rico, we were getting them directly from the farmers. No transportation costs, no supermarket markup.
So we though of this as well, but at over $5 per day, there really isn't a challenge. Over $350 per month for 2 people, I mean many people do that and less. I believe this country provides a lot of those who don't have the means to provide for themselves, but this is also a first world country. This challenge is meant to simulate extreme poverty, third world poverty. If you look up the challenge, AU and NZ have a $2 a day budget. other countries have similar guidelines, although many of them do it for just 5 days at a time, once per year.
So far I'm realizing how well I can eat with minimal means. It just takes a lot of planning.
I've been trying to figure out why this isn't sitting well with me, and to be honest it's a very complex intermingling of concepts. While I think your intentions are good, I'm having a hard time figuring out how this experiment really does what you say with regards to challenging you.
I think part of it is that you have access and means that people living below the poverty line don't. You mention a pressure cooker, a slow cooker, and having time to meal plan. You mentioned something about drying some carrots (I think, I didn't reread before posting this), is that with a dehydrator? I suspect that you were able to drive to the grocery. Being able to drive expands the selection or grocers because you can go further to get food and thereby allows you to reduce the price. You also aren't limited by what you can carry on the bus.
I get that the challenge is not about simulating poverty. Your access to all of these additional conveniences makes it less challenging for you to live on less. What really doesn't sit well with me is the bolded part above. I think that is because it is an unequal comparison, and makes it sound like poor people could be doing better with what they have. They have other issues that compound this problem for them. You have more time, less food scarcity, and more housing security.
I'm not trying to put you down or belittle you. I'm just confused.16 -
nutmegoreo wrote: »Leslierussell4134 wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »So if you took the Maximum CalFresh Allotment for a family of 2 of $352, and divided it by half to get you from 200% of the federal poverty level to 100%, divided that by 2, and that by 30, you'd get $5.87 per person per day.
When we bought rice and beans in Costa Rico, we were getting them directly from the farmers. No transportation costs, no supermarket markup.
So we though of this as well, but at over $5 per day, there really isn't a challenge. Over $350 per month for 2 people, I mean many people do that and less. I believe this country provides a lot of those who don't have the means to provide for themselves, but this is also a first world country. This challenge is meant to simulate extreme poverty, third world poverty. If you look up the challenge, AU and NZ have a $2 a day budget. other countries have similar guidelines, although many of them do it for just 5 days at a time, once per year.
So far I'm realizing how well I can eat with minimal means. It just takes a lot of planning.
I've been trying to figure out why this isn't sitting well with me, and to be honest it's a very complex intermingling of concepts. While I think your intentions are good, I'm having a hard time figuring out how this experiment really does what you say with regards to challenging you.
I think part of it is that you have access and means that people living below the poverty line don't. You mention a pressure cooker, a slow cooker, and having time to meal plan. You mentioned something about drying some carrots (I think, I didn't reread before posting this), is that with a dehydrator? I suspect that you were able to drive to the grocery. Being able to drive expands the selection or grocers because you can go further to get food and thereby allows you to reduce the price. You also aren't limited by what you can carry on the bus.
I get that the challenge is not about simulating poverty. Your access to all of these additional conveniences makes it less challenging for you to live on less. What really doesn't sit well with me is the bolded part above. I think that is because it is an unequal comparison, and makes it sound like poor people could be doing better with what they have. They have other issues that compound this problem for them. You have more time, less food scarcity, and more housing security.
I'm not trying to put you down or belittle you. I'm just confused.
Yes, I think there is a huge difference between someone realizing "I can eat well with temporary minimal cash outlay [because I have resources and advantages that others don't have]" and "I [and by extension others] can eat well with minimal means." As long as the difference between the two is clear, experiments like this can be interesting. It's when the former bleeds into the latter that they trouble me also.6 -
janejellyroll wrote: »nutmegoreo wrote: »Leslierussell4134 wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »So if you took the Maximum CalFresh Allotment for a family of 2 of $352, and divided it by half to get you from 200% of the federal poverty level to 100%, divided that by 2, and that by 30, you'd get $5.87 per person per day.
When we bought rice and beans in Costa Rico, we were getting them directly from the farmers. No transportation costs, no supermarket markup.
So we though of this as well, but at over $5 per day, there really isn't a challenge. Over $350 per month for 2 people, I mean many people do that and less. I believe this country provides a lot of those who don't have the means to provide for themselves, but this is also a first world country. This challenge is meant to simulate extreme poverty, third world poverty. If you look up the challenge, AU and NZ have a $2 a day budget. other countries have similar guidelines, although many of them do it for just 5 days at a time, once per year.
So far I'm realizing how well I can eat with minimal means. It just takes a lot of planning.
I've been trying to figure out why this isn't sitting well with me, and to be honest it's a very complex intermingling of concepts. While I think your intentions are good, I'm having a hard time figuring out how this experiment really does what you say with regards to challenging you.
I think part of it is that you have access and means that people living below the poverty line don't. You mention a pressure cooker, a slow cooker, and having time to meal plan. You mentioned something about drying some carrots (I think, I didn't reread before posting this), is that with a dehydrator? I suspect that you were able to drive to the grocery. Being able to drive expands the selection or grocers because you can go further to get food and thereby allows you to reduce the price. You also aren't limited by what you can carry on the bus.
I get that the challenge is not about simulating poverty. Your access to all of these additional conveniences makes it less challenging for you to live on less. What really doesn't sit well with me is the bolded part above. I think that is because it is an unequal comparison, and makes it sound like poor people could be doing better with what they have. They have other issues that compound this problem for them. You have more time, less food scarcity, and more housing security.
I'm not trying to put you down or belittle you. I'm just confused.
Yes, I think there is a huge difference between someone realizing "I can eat well with temporary minimal cash outlay [because I have resources and advantages that others don't have]" and "I [and by extension others] can eat well with minimal means." As long as the difference between the two is clear, experiments like this can be interesting. It's when the former bleeds into the latter that they trouble me also.
I've certainly spent time playing with reducing my monthly food budget over this last year, but I am under no illusion on the differences. I have access and security that isn't afforded to those under the poverty line. I think that there is value with raising awareness of poverty, I'm just not convinced this is the way to do it. While awareness was raised as an initial reason, the thread itself hasn't been focused on poverty issues. So I don't see how it's achieving that stated goal either.2 -
nutmegoreo wrote: »Leslierussell4134 wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »So if you took the Maximum CalFresh Allotment for a family of 2 of $352, and divided it by half to get you from 200% of the federal poverty level to 100%, divided that by 2, and that by 30, you'd get $5.87 per person per day.
When we bought rice and beans in Costa Rico, we were getting them directly from the farmers. No transportation costs, no supermarket markup.
So we though of this as well, but at over $5 per day, there really isn't a challenge. Over $350 per month for 2 people, I mean many people do that and less. I believe this country provides a lot of those who don't have the means to provide for themselves, but this is also a first world country. This challenge is meant to simulate extreme poverty, third world poverty. If you look up the challenge, AU and NZ have a $2 a day budget. other countries have similar guidelines, although many of them do it for just 5 days at a time, once per year.
So far I'm realizing how well I can eat with minimal means. It just takes a lot of planning.
I've been trying to figure out why this isn't sitting well with me, and to be honest it's a very complex intermingling of concepts. While I think your intentions are good, I'm having a hard time figuring out how this experiment really does what you say with regards to challenging you.
I think part of it is that you have access and means that people living below the poverty line don't. You mention a pressure cooker, a slow cooker, and having time to meal plan. You mentioned something about drying some carrots (I think, I didn't reread before posting this), is that with a dehydrator? I suspect that you were able to drive to the grocery. Being able to drive expands the selection or grocers because you can go further to get food and thereby allows you to reduce the price. You also aren't limited by what you can carry on the bus.
I get that the challenge is not about simulating poverty. Your access to all of these additional conveniences makes it less challenging for you to live on less. What really doesn't sit well with me is the bolded part above. I think that is because it is an unequal comparison, and makes it sound like poor people could be doing better with what they have. They have other issues that compound this problem for them. You have more time, less food scarcity, and more housing security.
I'm not trying to put you down or belittle you. I'm just confused.
Well, when I did my "Live on FL Max Food Stamps Benefits" it was challenging to me on $200 a month, so Leslie is far more challenged on $1.90 per day.
I did it because a friend was receiving benefits. I realized I had many more advantages than he did, some of which you mentioned - complete kitchen facilities, time to meal plan, being able to drive to the store. I also knew a lot more about cooking and nutrition than he did. I wasn't trying to equalize all my advantages, just answer the simple question "Can I live on this and stay within my food ethics?"
Plus the real disadvantage my friend had was his father dying when he was a baby, his mother dying when he was 10, and his 28 years of being a heroin addict. There's no way I could equalize that.
I believe that Leslie is sincerely coming from a humble place. I wouldn't be a bit surprised if she went on to share her knowledge with the truly disadvantaged.4 -
Leslierussell4134 wrote: »firlena227 wrote: »Absolutely! Thanks for your response and encouragement.
I know you're partner might have reservations, but maybe you all could do the 5 day challenge to start? It's been a real eye opener, and I'm excited to see what the months end will teach us. ❤
Haha well he surprised me when he was happy to do veganuary this year so maybe! Im in England so the live below the line is usually £1 per person per day, definitely doable. Best of luck with the rest of your challenge1
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