Live Below The Line- 31 Day Challenge

2

Replies

  • firlena227
    firlena227 Posts: 86 Member
    Whoops somehow managed to quote myself in response to one of the OPs responses... doh!!
  • kshama2001
    kshama2001 Posts: 28,052 Member
    edited August 2018
    singingflutelady wrote: »
    kshama2001 wrote: »
    nutmegoreo wrote: »
    Leslierussell4134 wrote: »
    kshama2001 wrote: »
    So if you took the Maximum CalFresh Allotment for a family of 2 of $352, and divided it by half to get you from 200% of the federal poverty level to 100%, divided that by 2, and that by 30, you'd get $5.87 per person per day.

    When we bought rice and beans in Costa Rico, we were getting them directly from the farmers. No transportation costs, no supermarket markup.

    So we though of this as well, but at over $5 per day, there really isn't a challenge. Over $350 per month for 2 people, I mean many people do that and less. I believe this country provides a lot of those who don't have the means to provide for themselves, but this is also a first world country. This challenge is meant to simulate extreme poverty, third world poverty. If you look up the challenge, AU and NZ have a $2 a day budget. other countries have similar guidelines, although many of them do it for just 5 days at a time, once per year.
    So far I'm realizing how well I can eat with minimal means. It just takes a lot of planning.

    I've been trying to figure out why this isn't sitting well with me, and to be honest it's a very complex intermingling of concepts. While I think your intentions are good, I'm having a hard time figuring out how this experiment really does what you say with regards to challenging you.

    I think part of it is that you have access and means that people living below the poverty line don't. You mention a pressure cooker, a slow cooker, and having time to meal plan. You mentioned something about drying some carrots (I think, I didn't reread before posting this), is that with a dehydrator? I suspect that you were able to drive to the grocery. Being able to drive expands the selection or grocers because you can go further to get food and thereby allows you to reduce the price. You also aren't limited by what you can carry on the bus.

    I get that the challenge is not about simulating poverty. Your access to all of these additional conveniences makes it less challenging for you to live on less. What really doesn't sit well with me is the bolded part above. I think that is because it is an unequal comparison, and makes it sound like poor people could be doing better with what they have. They have other issues that compound this problem for them. You have more time, less food scarcity, and more housing security.

    I'm not trying to put you down or belittle you. I'm just confused.

    Well, when I did my "Live on FL Max Food Stamps Benefits" it was challenging to me on $200 a month, so Leslie is far more challenged on $1.90 per day.

    I did it because a friend was receiving benefits. I realized I had many more advantages than he did, some of which you mentioned - complete kitchen facilities, time to meal plan, being able to drive to the store. I also knew a lot more about cooking and nutrition than he did. I wasn't trying to equalize all my advantages, just answer the simple question "Can I live on this and stay within my food ethics?"

    Plus the real disadvantage my friend had was his father dying when he was a baby, his mother dying when he was 10, and his 28 years of being a heroin addict. There's no way I could equalize that.

    I believe that Leslie is sincerely coming from a humble place. I wouldn't be a bit surprised if she went on to share her knowledge with the truly disadvantaged.

    The bolded part bothers me a bit. How does living with a small budget without all the other disadvantages for a month make you more knowledgable about poverty than people who have been living it and experiencing it for a lot longer? I think it would be the other way around. It will for sure help her understand a bit bettee but it in no way makes her more knowledgable than those who don't have a choice.

    People who live in food deserts may have only seen rice in boxes and beans in cans. They may not know about the much much cheaper option of buying in 5, 10, 20 pounds bags. They might not know how to cook dried beans. (Lots of people don't.)

    Lots of people could use tips on meal planning. It's easy for someone to just get takeout because they are tired and didn't plan, but if they have someone coaching them on meal planning, they can save a lot of money and potentially eat more healthily.

    We used to have a poster here who was a social worker whose job included teaching things like this. She also spread the word about communities where food stamps went farther at farmers markets.

    https://thesouthern.com/news/local/program-doubles-snap-dollars-spent-at-farmers-market/article_07adce6d-2a77-593d-8d0d-0d58b8867b94.html

    ****

    This is not a diss on poor people. I learned that having a fan in my attic will help me save money on air conditioning through a state sponsored energy audit that was full of money saving tips like this for home owners.

    Knowledge is power!
  • kshama2001
    kshama2001 Posts: 28,052 Member
    singingflutelady wrote: »
    I agree knowledge is power but just by doing this experiment doesn't automatically make you more knowledgeable than people who live in poverty. I am poor. I have a vast knowledge of nutrition and how to save money (I don't have any credit cards so I can only spend what I have). If someone came up to me and started giving me "shopping tips" because they did it for a month I don't think I would react positively. What makes that person's 1 month experiment more valuable than my multi year experience of living under the line.

    Well, I didn't expect her to be going up randomly to people ;)
  • singingflutelady
    singingflutelady Posts: 8,736 Member
    mbaker566 wrote: »
    singingflutelady wrote: »
    I agree knowledge is power but just by doing this experiment doesn't automatically make you more knowledgeable than people who live in poverty. I am poor. I have a vast knowledge of nutrition and how to save money (I don't have any credit cards so I can only spend what I have). If someone came up to me and started giving me "shopping tips" because they did it for a month I don't think I would react positively. What makes that person's 1 month experiment more valuable than my multi year experience of living under the line.

    can you not just congratulate the OP for trying to open up her life experience a bit?
    instead of being so dismissive. ok you did it for longer and under more "severe" conditions.

    good luck OP.
    i'm big on soups and making my own bread(trying) and cookies and such.

    @mbaker566 I have no issue with the OP or this experiment. I am replying to someone else who made a statement I disagree with.
  • kshama2001
    kshama2001 Posts: 28,052 Member
    singingflutelady wrote: »
    mbaker566 wrote: »
    singingflutelady wrote: »
    I agree knowledge is power but just by doing this experiment doesn't automatically make you more knowledgeable than people who live in poverty. I am poor. I have a vast knowledge of nutrition and how to save money (I don't have any credit cards so I can only spend what I have). If someone came up to me and started giving me "shopping tips" because they did it for a month I don't think I would react positively. What makes that person's 1 month experiment more valuable than my multi year experience of living under the line.

    can you not just congratulate the OP for trying to open up her life experience a bit?
    instead of being so dismissive. ok you did it for longer and under more "severe" conditions.

    good luck OP.
    i'm big on soups and making my own bread(trying) and cookies and such.

    @mbaker566 I have no issue with the OP or this experiment. I am replying to someone else who made a statement I disagree with.

    You may have missed this in her thread in Debate:
    Leslierussell4134 wrote: »
    lynn_glenmont wrote: »
    Is it just for awareness and weight loss, or does the money you save go to causes that provide groceries or meals to those who are hungry or food insecure?

    Ive been talking to my husband about this all night, the best way to handle our saved money. We've decided to donate it to a state run assisted living and skilled nursing facility down the street. I am a nurse, and I'm passionate about the senior or geriatric population some of my favorite patients. It so happens this is the most food insecure population in my local community.

    She's a nurse and passionate about seniors - her helping to educate the food insecure population in her local community with whom she already works is not a stretch.
  • mbaker566
    mbaker566 Posts: 11,233 Member
    janejellyroll wrote: »
    mbaker566 wrote: »
    singingflutelady wrote: »
    I agree knowledge is power but just by doing this experiment doesn't automatically make you more knowledgeable than people who live in poverty. I am poor. I have a vast knowledge of nutrition and how to save money (I don't have any credit cards so I can only spend what I have). If someone came up to me and started giving me "shopping tips" because they did it for a month I don't think I would react positively. What makes that person's 1 month experiment more valuable than my multi year experience of living under the line.

    can you not just congratulate the OP for trying to open up her life experience a bit?
    instead of being so dismissive. ok you did it for longer and under more "severe" conditions.

    good luck OP.
    i'm big on soups and making my own bread(trying) and cookies and such.

    It's not a contest, but there is a big difference between eating this way because it's an fun challenge that you hope will educate you and doing it because you have virtually no other options. So seriously, the little scare quotes around "severe" are totally unnecessary.

    It's not the same thing under more and less "severe" conditions, they're totally different things. Choice matters.

    severe is a matter of perspective. maybe it's severe to one person, and just plain old life to another

    at least the op is trying to expand her experience even if she is only doing it for a challenge. the point is that she is making a choice to have a closer experience to those that have no choice

    i've also learned length of experience does not necessarily mean better advice.

    as was mentioned, the Op knows it's not a perfect comparison.
  • Leslierussell4134
    Leslierussell4134 Posts: 376 Member
    edited August 2018
    crazyravr wrote: »
    You know what would be beneficial, if you were to post how much of each you actually eat, because I seriously dont see this happening with the cost per meal you are posting.

    Can you see my diary? I made it public so you could see portions. I don't know if myfitnesspal allows you to see recipes others have created, as this is how I've been logging, otherwise hand entering each ingredient would drive me crazy lol.
  • kshama2001
    kshama2001 Posts: 28,052 Member
    crazyravr wrote: »
    You know what would be beneficial, if you were to post how much of each you actually eat, because I seriously dont see this happening with the cost per meal you are posting.
    Leslierussell4134 wrote: »
    Can you see my diary? I made it public so you could see portions. I don't know if myfitnesspal allows you to see recipes others have created, as this is how I've been logging, otherwise hand entering each ingredient would drive me crazy lol.

    Along these lines, I was confused about the dessert calories - how many servings does it make? You logged one serving at 219 calories. The peanut butter alone is around 400 calories.

    I've made something similar with just oats, PB, raisins, and spices but don't have it often as it is so caloric. I like the idea of adding carrots for bulk at little calories.
  • bostonjim23
    bostonjim23 Posts: 41 Member
    edited August 2018
    The biggest problem with eating cheaply is malnutrition as i am sure you are noticing since you already stated that your taking vitamins before even starting which most low income can not afford. let alone most people who are dirt poor do not have a farm to get there crops which if they did your total income on food could be zero with growing your own. I am glad that your trying to save money though there is no compression.
  • bostonjim23
    bostonjim23 Posts: 41 Member
    @cmriverside because your trying to turn something into something that it's not. It would be like some one saying for a day i want to see what it's like being homeless an spend the day on the street an at night sleep in there house.
  • Leslierussell4134
    Leslierussell4134 Posts: 376 Member
    kshama2001 wrote: »
    crazyravr wrote: »
    You know what would be beneficial, if you were to post how much of each you actually eat, because I seriously dont see this happening with the cost per meal you are posting.
    Leslierussell4134 wrote: »
    Can you see my diary? I made it public so you could see portions. I don't know if myfitnesspal allows you to see recipes others have created, as this is how I've been logging, otherwise hand entering each ingredient would drive me crazy lol.

    Along these lines, I was confused about the dessert calories - how many servings does it make? You logged one serving at 219 calories. The peanut butter alone is around 400 calories.

    I've made something similar with just oats, PB, raisins, and spices but don't have it often as it is so caloric. I like the idea of adding carrots for bulk at little calories.

    It only made 4 servings, my husband ate all 3 of the others.
  • Leslierussell4134
    Leslierussell4134 Posts: 376 Member
    Day 4

    Today was a little rough, long work day and I struggled to get the calories in (made up for it at dinner). Took my a long time to finished my shake, it was so dang hot and I wasn't hungry. Not sure if it's a good thing to force myself to eat, I just don't want to feel crummy under eating or not getting enough protein. Nevertheless, it was a success. I did however change things up and start taking my multi vitamin, as I believe I am lacking in Iron and calcium on this challenge so far. Other nutrients have been good, and I've been supplementing B12 twice weekly since going more plant based in May. I did have to adjust the calcium pricing, as a recent bottle cost more than previous, but I've included them in my daily totals.

    Breakfast- see diary for serving sizes
    Oats
    Carrot
    Peanuts butter
    Banana
    Stevia
    Cinnamon
    Total $0.32

    Lunch
    Sam's Beans
    Sam's Rice
    Veggie Soup
    Total $0.57

    Dinner
    Sam's Beans
    Sam's Rice
    Veggie Soup
    Tortillas
    (Gaucamole- Avocado free from neighbors yard, traded for squash from our garden)
    $0.66

    Supplements
    Vega Multi $0.13
    Vega Calcium $0.14
    Doctors Best B12 1500mcg $0.07
    Total $0.34

    Daily Total $1.89

    Stats:
    Protein 49g
    Carbs 289g
    Fat 32 g
    Fiber 42g

    Good night all,

    Leslie
  • kshama2001
    kshama2001 Posts: 28,052 Member
    edited August 2018
    Leslierussell4134 wrote: »
    kshama2001 wrote: »
    crazyravr wrote: »
    You know what would be beneficial, if you were to post how much of each you actually eat, because I seriously dont see this happening with the cost per meal you are posting.
    Leslierussell4134 wrote: »
    Can you see my diary? I made it public so you could see portions. I don't know if myfitnesspal allows you to see recipes others have created, as this is how I've been logging, otherwise hand entering each ingredient would drive me crazy lol.

    Along these lines, I was confused about the dessert calories - how many servings does it make? You logged one serving at 219 calories. The peanut butter alone is around 400 calories.

    I've made something similar with just oats, PB, raisins, and spices but don't have it often as it is so caloric. I like the idea of adding carrots for bulk at little calories.

    It only made 4 servings, my husband ate all 3 of the others.

    That makes sense, thanks. Looks yummy!
  • lynn_glenmont
    lynn_glenmont Posts: 10,093 Member


    Leslierussell4134 wrote: »
    Day 4


    Breakfast- see diary for serving sizes
    Oats
    Carrot
    Peanuts butter
    Banana
    Stevia
    Cinnamon
    Total $0.32


    Can I ask what you're paying for bananas and peanut butter? In the places I shop, bananas are 59 cents a pound, and at roughly 5 to 6 ounces per banana (unpeeled -- you have to pay for the peel, even though you don't eat it :smile: ) that's already 20 cents. I don't buy the cheapest peanut butter, but I'm pretty sure even the cheap ones are at least 10 cents an ounce at a "normal" sale price (i.e., not some once-a-year, valid only with $50 purchase, sale price). So that's 30 cents, leaving only 2 cents for all of the other ingredients.
  • L1zardQueen
    L1zardQueen Posts: 8,753 Member
    Did you buy the stevia? or did you have it already in your pantry? It is so awesome that you have a neighbor with an avocado tree. It's a nice way to get some fats in your diet.
  • Leslierussell4134
    Leslierussell4134 Posts: 376 Member
    lynn_glenmont wrote: »

    Leslierussell4134 wrote: »
    Day 4


    Breakfast- see diary for serving sizes
    Oats
    Carrot
    Peanuts butter
    Banana
    Stevia
    Cinnamon
    Total $0.32


    Can I ask what you're paying for bananas and peanut butter? In the places I shop, bananas are 59 cents a pound, and at roughly 5 to 6 ounces per banana (unpeeled -- you have to pay for the peel, even though you don't eat it :smile: ) that's already 20 cents. I don't buy the cheapest peanut butter, but I'm pretty sure even the cheap ones are at least 10 cents an ounce at a "normal" sale price (i.e., not some once-a-year, valid only with $50 purchase, sale price). So that's 30 cents, leaving only 2 cents for all of the other ingredients.

    Absolutely, thanks for asking. So I buy my peanut butter at Winco, they have a peanut grinder there, so you can buy whatever amount you'd like for $2.02/ lb. So it comes out to $0.13 per 30g serving, or 2 Tbsp, I measured to make sure. My bananas are $1.18 for 3 lbs from Sam's club, I bought bunches with 10 bananas making them $0.12 per. I shopped at those two stores for this month's groceries.
  • Leslierussell4134
    Leslierussell4134 Posts: 376 Member
    edited August 2018
    L1zardQueen wrote: »
    Did you buy the stevia? or did you have it already in your pantry? It is so awesome that you have a neighbor with an avocado tree. It's a nice way to get some fats in your diet.

    So I did buy the Stevia, as I have some growing at the moment, but I'm letting the plant mature before I start plucking it. The Stevia comes out to $0.02 per 4 drop serving.
    Avocados are life for me! Hoping to get some more from the neighbor soon, we may be swapping squash for them from our garden. This was not in our rules when we began, but it makes sense to be fair. I think trade of goods is appropriate in most all circumstances 😉
  • L1zardQueen
    L1zardQueen Posts: 8,753 Member
    Leslierussell4134 wrote: »
    L1zardQueen wrote: »
    Did you buy the stevia? or did you have it already in your pantry? It is so awesome that you have a neighbor with an avocado tree. It's a nice way to get some fats in your diet.

    So I did buy the Stevia, as I have some growing at the moment, but I'm letting the plant mature before I start plucking it. The Stevia comes out to $0.02 per 4 drop serving.
    Avocados are life for me! Hoping to get some more from the neighbor soon, we may be swapping squash for them from our garden. This was not in our rules when we began, but it makes sense to be fair. I think trade of goods is appropriate in most all circumstances 😉

    Bartering is a good plan.

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