I need to get faster and build more endurance.
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NorthCascades
Posts: 10,970 Member
I fell in with a crowd of peak baggers, who are pushing my limits. To keep getting invited on fun trips, I need to get faster going up hill with a pack, and I need to be able to do a lot more up. Right now 4,000 vertical feet is a lot for me.
I guess that's another way of saying I need to lose more weight. I'm already hiking as much as I can, riding a lot, and doing heavy squats.
I guess that's another way of saying I need to lose more weight. I'm already hiking as much as I can, riding a lot, and doing heavy squats.
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4,000 ft is a lot for most people! I'm not sure I could do that. I think you're doing all the right things to keep building. Are you doing other leg work in addition to squats, like deads, lunges, etc? Maybe some plyo like squat jumps, lunge jumps, skaters. If you have to dial back the riding this winter, find another form of cardio. And you're right, use the winter to focus on continued weight loss.2
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Is it simply endurance, or is it the duration of the hike? 4000' for me would be 12+ hours. That's as much about attrition as it is anything else, and it's really hard to train for that type of duration.3
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So here are two recent examples:
Mount Dickerman was 9 miles R/T and 4k of vert. Took 5 hours car to car and my partner didn't mind, but would have been faster alone.
Bean and Earl peaks were 8.5 miles R/T and 4,200 feet. It took 6 hours, route finding was harder and slowed us down, we stopped for lunch on the second summit. Different partner, also would have been much faster without me.
These are both shorter and easier trips for these folks, and ok to be slow on. But other ones aren't; Pasayten Peak is a rolling 8 mile approach, before you start up the mountain. Going slow would mean having to carry overnight gear and sleep on the route. I can comfortably do 15 easy trail miles in a day but not with 6k of up hill.
I'm going to have to really pay attention to my food.0 -
Are their packs the same weight as yours?1
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Is it simply endurance, or is it the duration of the hike? 4000' for me would be 12+ hours. That's as much about attrition as it is anything else, and it's really hard to train for that type of duration.
What do you mean by endurance vs duration? They seem like the same thing to me.1 -
Is it simply endurance, or is it the duration of the hike? 4000' for me would be 12+ hours. That's as much about attrition as it is anything else, and it's really hard to train for that type of duration.
What do you mean by endurance vs duration? They seem like the same thing to me.
They probably are... but they feel different to me, and I'm not sure how else to articulate that. Duration, to me (in this case) doesn't involve a significantly higher effort/intensity... it's more about maintain a fairly low/typical effort for an exceptionally long time. Endurance (again, for me in this scenario) is more about both a relatively high intensity over a moderate time frame.
For me, hiking requires very little "endurace" but an exceptional amount of attrition.
That probably makes it about as clear as mud, huh? I just know the type of effort I need to hike 4000 vertical feet is very different than what I need to ride 50 miles. One barely helps/impacts the other.1 -
cycle your training :-) If you get it right you hit your day in the best possible shape. Have a look at books by Joe Friel or look up trainingpeaks on the web. A book which has a load of general stuff in is his "bible"
https://www.amazon.com/Triathletes-Training-Bible-Worlds-Comprehensive/dp/1937715442/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1543879376&sr=8-3&keywords=the+triathletes+training+bible I think he does other ones for none triathlites but if you read this you will have all you need to know. There are other books out there
for instance ... https://www.amazon.com/Training-New-Alpinism-Climber-Athlete/dp/193834023X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1543879538&sr=8-1&keywords=new+alpinism
These are different sports but use nearly the same ideas.
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NorthCascades wrote: »So here are two recent examples:
Mount Dickerman was 9 miles R/T and 4k of vert. Took 5 hours car to car and my partner didn't mind, but would have been faster alone.
Bean and Earl peaks were 8.5 miles R/T and 4,200 feet. It took 6 hours, route finding was harder and slowed us down, we stopped for lunch on the second summit. Different partner, also would have been much faster without me.
These are both shorter and easier trips for these folks, and ok to be slow on. But other ones aren't; Pasayten Peak is a rolling 8 mile approach, before you start up the mountain. Going slow would mean having to carry overnight gear and sleep on the route. I can comfortably do 15 easy trail miles in a day but not with 6k of up hill.
I'm going to have to really pay attention to my food.
Ah, yea... sounds like you just need a bit more hiking/backpack training.0 -
cycle your training :-) If you get it right you hit your day in the best possible shape. Have a look at books by Joe Friel or look up trainingpeaks on the web. A book which has a load of general stuff in is his "bible"
https://www.amazon.com/Triathletes-Training-Bible-Worlds-Comprehensive/dp/1937715442/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1543879376&sr=8-3&keywords=the+triathletes+training+bible I think he does other ones for none triathlites but if you read this you will have all you need to know. There are other books out there
for instance ... https://www.amazon.com/Training-New-Alpinism-Climber-Athlete/dp/193834023X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1543879538&sr=8-1&keywords=new+alpinism
These are different sports but use nearly the same ideas.
I recently looked at his book for over-50 athletes. It looked really detailed and thorough about type of workouts for different goal, but was a bit advanced for me. You would probably like his approach @NorthCascades.1 -
OldAssDude wrote: »Are their packs the same weight as yours?
Unfortunately I think they're all in the same ballpark. I noticed one of them was carrying more water than me, another brought snow shoes and never used them. I just brought extra jackets and a PLB.0 -
NorthCascades wrote: »OldAssDude wrote: »Are their packs the same weight as yours?
Unfortunately I think they're all in the same ballpark. I noticed one of them was carrying more water than me, another brought snow shoes and never used them. I just brought extra jackets and a PLB.
Well the only thing i can say is maybe do your training with a little more weight to build your endurance more. Then when you do it with them with the regular pack, it will be easier.
Just guessing.0 -
4,000 ft is a lot for most people! I'm not sure I could do that. I think you're doing all the right things to keep building. Are you doing other leg work in addition to squats, like deads, lunges, etc? Maybe some plyo like squat jumps, lunge jumps, skaters. If you have to dial back the riding this winter, find another form of cardio. And you're right, use the winter to focus on continued weight loss.
You know, squats are the only leg work I do in the gym. Proper deadlifts scare me, I've known people with back injuries, I can't tell in the moment whether I'm rounding my back. At some point I'm going to hire someone to go over form with me, but I have so many other expenses right now. My physical therapist made a routine for me, mostly back and shoulders to correct imbalances from a lifetime of cycling. Maybe I should do lunges for a few weeks and see if it feels any easier.0 -
Would short duration/high intensity hill intervals be useful cross training perhaps? Modified for your discipline. I know for running, hill work is something many distance runners work in to improve speed.2
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Treadmills that have inclines might help.1
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All I do is run and cycle. My base weight for a weekend is about 4kg. Let me check some recent hikes...
15 miles, 6k feet, 8 hours. Stopped at the high peak, ate at a hut on the way down.
9.5 miles, 3k feet, 4.5 hours, rain.
21 miles, 2k feet, 10 hours. All above 8k feet.
In the Sierra I average 3.2 mph. In the White mountains, 2.1 mph! No switch backs...1 -
NorthCascades wrote: »4,000 ft is a lot for most people! I'm not sure I could do that. I think you're doing all the right things to keep building. Are you doing other leg work in addition to squats, like deads, lunges, etc? Maybe some plyo like squat jumps, lunge jumps, skaters. If you have to dial back the riding this winter, find another form of cardio. And you're right, use the winter to focus on continued weight loss.
You know, squats are the only leg work I do in the gym. Proper deadlifts scare me, I've known people with back injuries, I can't tell in the moment whether I'm rounding my back. At some point I'm going to hire someone to go over form with me, but I have so many other expenses right now. My physical therapist made a routine for me, mostly back and shoulders to correct imbalances from a lifetime of cycling. Maybe I should do lunges for a few weeks and see if it feels any easier.
You could look into other lifts for your posterior chain to replace deads. Lunges will be great. Anything will likely take awhile to achieve a dramatic effect. All progress seems to be incremental, at least to me.1 -
I use the stairmaster at my gym, and find it mimics the effort of vertical climbing very well. When I was climbing hills in Costa Rica a few years back, I was so out of shape that I was easily 20 minutes behind the rest of the group.
I think about that hike every time I am on the stairmaster, watching the floors add up as I climb and climb and climb. At the moment, I can endure 20 minutes uphill at 28 steps per minute. That's barely a dent in the rainforest hike and I use that as my motivator to push on for more.2 -
Start a running program? Running made long hikes easier for me. I also often run with a heavy pack (stubborn and don’t want to fork out money for a speciality running pack quite yet.).1
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I used the stairmaster/treadclimber to help with cardio conditioning when doing this, but that was while I was overseas or deployed and mostly at sea level.
You're already a strong biker/hiker, but some progressive resistance will help - squats specifically. I noticed tremendous gains on my runs after implementing squats and compound lifts. You're in an area where you can actually train at altitude as well, so in a good place.2 -
Depending on how heavy your bag is, hit the stairmaster while wearing it. If it's under 40lbs you could always by a 40lb vest to wear to train it harder.
Also, Squats & Deadlifts are good. I would also do some kind of high-rep Lunges or Step-ups and really focus on controlled movements. Reason being is that your terrain is not likely to be even or stable, and doing some unilateral work like that can help increase endurance and joint stability.2
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