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MyFitnessPal Community

Clean Bulk Questions

TeamNemesisSteve

I’m 6ft tall and 165 pound (currently). I’ve been clean bulking for about 1 solid month now and I’ve gained a little weight but it’s not too noticeable with the exception of my biceps and chest getting bigger. I thought I would see more stomach. I was eating 2000-2500 calories a day and now I’m eating around 3000-3500. Lean meats, no sugar, vegetables and brown rice. Protein at every meal and for snack. I strength workout 5 days a week for around an hour a day.

One of my questions is:
I do cardio 3-4 days a week (I used to do cardio 6 days). I play full court basketball once a week and run the other 2-3 days. Is my cardio stumping the weight gain of the lean bulk? Am I just going the long way around to gain muscle without gaining a lot of fat?

Replies

pinggolfer96

No, just make up the caloric expenditure by eating more. Also there’s no such thing as “clean foods” unless it’s your absolute preference to not eat “sugary” foods.....your brown rice and veggies are metabolized in glucose in the body and gram for gram contain the same calories. Also you said lean meats...your diet seems low in fat, which isn’t optimal considering it’s an essential macronutrient and actually is what hormones (testosterone) and fat soluble vitamins/ nutrients need for absorption and hormone synthesis

BrianKMcFalls

What are your goals? If you really want to gain weight (and by that, I assume you mean muscle), then you're doing things that sabotage that goal.

TeamNemesisSteve

This is from about 3-4 weeks ago. I actually feel a little more muscular now. These pics are about 3-4 months apart. To answer a few questions: I eat lots of fruit and eggs. When I say I eat “clean”, I don’t eat any fast food or much processed food. My understanding on a clean bulk is that you stay away from that stuff especially the things high in sodium. I’m also using BCAA’s with electrolytes.

AnvilHead

TeamNemesisSteve wrote: »

This is from about 3-4 weeks ago. I actually feel a little more muscular now. These pics are about 3-4 months apart. To answer a few questions: I eat lots of fruit and eggs. When I say I eat “clean”, I don’t eat any fast food or much processed food. My understanding on a clean bulk is that you stay away from that stuff especially the things high in sodium. I’m also using BCAA’s with electrolytes.

Generally, a "clean" vs. "dirty" bulk has to do with the size of the deficit, not whether you're eating 'clean' (whatever one interprets that vague phrase to mean). A "clean" bulk would utilize a small surplus to minimize fat gain, while a "dirty" bulk utilizes a larger surplus, allowing more fat gain.

Tip: You could save yourself some money by ditching the BCAAs. If you're getting adequate protein intake in your diet, they're a completely worthless supplement. If you're not getting enough protein in your diet, you'd be better off eating more protein-rich foods and/or supplementing with a complete protein (protein shakes/bars, etc.). This infographic explains, in simple terms, why BCAAs are useless:

TeamNemesisSteve

AnvilHead wrote: »

TeamNemesisSteve wrote: »

This is from about 3-4 weeks ago. I actually feel a little more muscular now. These pics are about 3-4 months apart. To answer a few questions: I eat lots of fruit and eggs. When I say I eat “clean”, I don’t eat any fast food or much processed food. My understanding on a clean bulk is that you stay away from that stuff especially the things high in sodium. I’m also using BCAA’s with electrolytes.

Generally, a "clean" vs. "dirty" bulk has to do with the size of the deficit, not whether you're eating 'clean' (whatever one interprets that vague phrase to mean). A "clean" bulk would utilize a small surplus to minimize fat gain, while a "dirty" bulk utilizes a larger surplus, allowing more fat gain.

Tip: You could save yourself some money by ditching the BCAAs. If you're getting adequate protein intake in your diet, they're a completely worthless supplement. If you're not getting enough protein in your diet, you'd be better off eating more protein-rich foods and/or supplementing with a complete protein (protein shakes/bars, etc.). This infographic explains, in simple terms, why BCAAs are useless:

Haha! That’s great. I like that. Interesting stuff.

pinggolfer96

No point in bcaas if you’re getting adequate protein. Sodium is an essential electrolyte. I personally try and hit a sodium goal of 7-10 grams a day. And then there’s nothing “dirty or clean” about food. Macronutrient composition is what matters, not the source. In terms of body composition....how would the carbs, fats, proteins in a “healthy” meal of eggs and sweet potato with the same caloric/ macro be different from the macro content of a burger from McDonald’s. They both contain all 3 macros and if they were equal, they’d have no difference on body composition. Food labeling is a myth. What program are you running?

mmapags

Here is my question. If you are gaining muscle mass, why are you concerned? The best thing about a clean or lean bulk is the lack of fat gain vs. muscle. If you are truly gaining muscle mass and not fat, I'd count that as a major win.

The downside of a clean/lean bulk is it can be a slow process and some are willing to take on the fat. My guess is that it all comes out the same over time. Build lean and slow, or bulk quicker and cut later. I'm doing recomp and that is almost like watching paint dry but over time (months) I see differences. I'm also a lot older than you at age 67.

pinggolfer96

mmapags wrote: »

Here is my question. If you are gaining muscle mass, why are you concerned? The best thing about a clean or lean bulk is the lack of fat gain vs. muscle. If you are truly gaining muscle mass and not fat, I'd count that as a major win.

The downside of a clean/lean bulk is it can be a slow process and some are willing to take on the fat. My guess is that it all comes out the same over time. Build lean and slow, or bulk quicker and cut later. I'm doing recomp and that is almost like watching paint dry but over time (months) I see differences. I'm also a lot older than you at age 67.

In multiple studies and meta analysis evaluations, a surplus after +300 calories does not illicit more growth than 1000 calorie surplus. And a 300 calorie surplus will not bring on a lot of fat gain and you’ll receive the same muscle anabolism benefits on 300 cals as you would on anything past that. So your lean and slow concept doesn’t differ from “bulk quick, cut later” concept in terms of one being more advantageous. The bulk/cut later it just going to be an excuse to eat more than necessary and gain more fat than the 300-500 calorie surplus, yet will give you the same muscle anabolism benefit. There’s nothing “quick” about bulking either. Regardless of your calories, unless you’re not natty, it takes time

AnvilHead

Two great reads about bulking:

https://bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/muscle-gain-math.html/

https://bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/general-philosophies-of-muscle-mass-gain.html/

TeamNemesisSteve

pinggolfer96 wrote: »

No point in bcaas if you’re getting adequate protein. Sodium is an essential electrolyte. I personally try and hit a sodium goal of 7-10 grams a day. And then there’s nothing “dirty or clean” about food. Macronutrient composition is what matters, not the source. In terms of body composition....how would the carbs, fats, proteins in a “healthy” meal of eggs and sweet potato with the same caloric/ macro be different from the macro content of a burger from McDonald’s. They both contain all 3 macros and if they were equal, they’d have no difference on body composition. Food labeling is a myth. What program are you running?

I’m still learning a lot but please correct me if I’m wrong.

A McDonald’s cheeseburger is full of sodium and fillers compared to say a hamburger that you would buy at a higher end restaurant or one you make at home? Fast food absolutely makes me feel like crap. So I definitely have been eating “cleaner” for quite a while now. Almost 2 years and down 78 pounds. Too much sodium for me, causes huge bloat. I’m also no spring chicken anymore, I’m 42 and I definitely can’t eat 4 cheeseburgers and 4 fries like I used to when I was 17.

I do appreciate all the info, you definitely have some good knowledge.

pinggolfer96

TeamNemesisSteve wrote: »

pinggolfer96 wrote: »

No point in bcaas if you’re getting adequate protein. Sodium is an essential electrolyte. I personally try and hit a sodium goal of 7-10 grams a day. And then there’s nothing “dirty or clean” about food. Macronutrient composition is what matters, not the source. In terms of body composition....how would the carbs, fats, proteins in a “healthy” meal of eggs and sweet potato with the same caloric/ macro be different from the macro content of a burger from McDonald’s. They both contain all 3 macros and if they were equal, they’d have no difference on body composition. Food labeling is a myth. What program are you running?

I’m still learning a lot but please correct me if I’m wrong.

A McDonald’s cheeseburger is full of sodium and fillers compared to say a hamburger that you would buy at a higher end restaurant or one you make at home? Fast food absolutely makes me feel like crap. So I definitely have been eating “cleaner” for quite a while now. Almost 2 years and down 78 pounds. Too much sodium for me, causes huge bloat. I’m also no spring chicken anymore, I’m 42 and I definitely can’t eat 4 cheeseburgers and 4 fries like I used to when I was 17.

I do appreciate all the info, you definitely have some good knowledge.

What you stated though is all subjective. Some people feel amazing on eating fast food, high sodium....etc. I personally try to hit 7-10 grams of sodium a day cause it makes my workouts better. Also I incorporate these “dirty foods” cause I still receive the same results and feelings. So we’re completely opposite.....coming to my point that everything you said is opinionated. I was trying to help you from a human physiology standpoint that is the actual truth and scientifically accurate.

TeamNemesisSteve

pinggolfer96 wrote: »

TeamNemesisSteve wrote: »

pinggolfer96 wrote: »

No point in bcaas if you’re getting adequate protein. Sodium is an essential electrolyte. I personally try and hit a sodium goal of 7-10 grams a day. And then there’s nothing “dirty or clean” about food. Macronutrient composition is what matters, not the source. In terms of body composition....how would the carbs, fats, proteins in a “healthy” meal of eggs and sweet potato with the same caloric/ macro be different from the macro content of a burger from McDonald’s. They both contain all 3 macros and if they were equal, they’d have no difference on body composition. Food labeling is a myth. What program are you running?

I’m still learning a lot but please correct me if I’m wrong.

A McDonald’s cheeseburger is full of sodium and fillers compared to say a hamburger that you would buy at a higher end restaurant or one you make at home? Fast food absolutely makes me feel like crap. So I definitely have been eating “cleaner” for quite a while now. Almost 2 years and down 78 pounds. Too much sodium for me, causes huge bloat. I’m also no spring chicken anymore, I’m 42 and I definitely can’t eat 4 cheeseburgers and 4 fries like I used to when I was 17.

I do appreciate all the info, you definitely have some good knowledge.

What you stated though is all subjective. Some people feel amazing on eating fast food, high sodium....etc. I personally try to hit 7-10 grams of sodium a day cause it makes my workouts better. Also I incorporate these “dirty foods” cause I still receive the same results and feelings. So we’re completely opposite.....coming to my point that everything you said is opinionated. I was trying to help you from a human physiology standpoint that is the actual truth and scientifically accurate.

I do appreciate your info. Like I said I’m still learning.

But isn’t a “clean“ Bulk going to get you more muscle mass and less fat?

Where as a “dirty” bulk Will get you more fat and less muscle but is less expensive and easier to do?

pinggolfer96

TeamNemesisSteve wrote: »

pinggolfer96 wrote: »

TeamNemesisSteve wrote: »

pinggolfer96 wrote: »

No point in bcaas if you’re getting adequate protein. Sodium is an essential electrolyte. I personally try and hit a sodium goal of 7-10 grams a day. And then there’s nothing “dirty or clean” about food. Macronutrient composition is what matters, not the source. In terms of body composition....how would the carbs, fats, proteins in a “healthy” meal of eggs and sweet potato with the same caloric/ macro be different from the macro content of a burger from McDonald’s. They both contain all 3 macros and if they were equal, they’d have no difference on body composition. Food labeling is a myth. What program are you running?

I’m still learning a lot but please correct me if I’m wrong.

A McDonald’s cheeseburger is full of sodium and fillers compared to say a hamburger that you would buy at a higher end restaurant or one you make at home? Fast food absolutely makes me feel like crap. So I definitely have been eating “cleaner” for quite a while now. Almost 2 years and down 78 pounds. Too much sodium for me, causes huge bloat. I’m also no spring chicken anymore, I’m 42 and I definitely can’t eat 4 cheeseburgers and 4 fries like I used to when I was 17.

I do appreciate all the info, you definitely have some good knowledge.

What you stated though is all subjective. Some people feel amazing on eating fast food, high sodium....etc. I personally try to hit 7-10 grams of sodium a day cause it makes my workouts better. Also I incorporate these “dirty foods” cause I still receive the same results and feelings. So we’re completely opposite.....coming to my point that everything you said is opinionated. I was trying to help you from a human physiology standpoint that is the actual truth and scientifically accurate.

I do appreciate your info. Like I said I’m still learning.

But isn’t a “clean“ Bulk going to get you more muscle mass and less fat?

Where as a “dirty” bulk Will get you more fat and less muscle but is less expensive and easier to do?

Well what’s your definition of a clean vs a dirty bulk? The only thing that’ll get you fat is eating more than you NEED to. And no, it’s not more/ less expensive or easier....
Your bulk fat/ muscle gain is dependent upon your surplus, but the higher your surplus after say 300-500+ calories will just be excess fat gain. Dirty bulk is just a uncontrolled basically see food diet or eat way more than you have to and not care about fat and a lean bulk is staying in a slight surplus for muscle anabolism while minimizing fat gain

MichaelK1007

If it were me and when I am bulking I still track everything. While I’ll maintain a modest surplus I am still careful to hit my macro goals each day. Both of you make good points regarding “clean vs dirty” bulking. For example a McDonald’s quarter pounder is 530 cal with 28g fat/39g carbs/31g protein. When I eat a burger I make a 1/3 lbs NY strip burger on whole wheat bun with organic ketchup which is 390 cal with 18g fat/25g carbs/35g protein. In this case the macro content particularly in the fat makes the biggest difference. Carbs and proteins account for about 4cal per oz while fat contains over 9 cal per oz. For me I am choosing the “cleaner” option which allows me to eat more often with smaller less dense meals. Lastly to your point for being more expensive to clean bulk my “cleaner” option costs $.61 for the bun and $1.99 for a 1/3 lbs of leaner beef and maybe a few pennies for the tablespoon of ketchup vs. $4.00+ for the burger at McDonald’s (And let’s face it, who’s just going to McDonald’s to order a burger without fries). To me what makes a bulk “dirty” is not tracking your calories or macros and essentially eating anything and everything in sight.