Dr Neal Barnard's Low Fat Vegan Diet to reverse diabetes

fdhunt1
fdhunt1 Posts: 222 Member
edited December 20 in Health and Weight Loss
Has anyone followed Dr Barnard's diet to reverse diabetes? He claims you can eat without counting calories. Very restrictive vegan - no eggs, animal protein, dairy, or oils of any kind. Seems to be the complete opposite of what a person with diabetes should be eating.

Anybody tried this?
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Replies

  • NovusDies
    NovusDies Posts: 8,940 Member
    The theory is that any weight loss can help with diabetes. The danger for the diabetic is that if your BG gets too high you could end up in the hospital or worse.

    The other problem is that the diet is highly restrictive which may make it very hard to follow for some people. It also probably allows for things like nuts which can blow a calorie deficit for the day and since you are not counting you might not know.

    Since the occurrences of diabetes in my family runs really high and I see how they eat and then some die early because they don't accomplish carb control or weight loss I suggest you start with carb control. Then once you have that under control try to start losing weight with as few other changes as needed.
  • cmriverside
    cmriverside Posts: 34,454 Member
    edited April 2019
    Vegetables! I ate (and eat) SO many vegetables! - just not all vegetables.

    ..I think I need coffee before attempting to type. Coffee, I drink coffee with half and half and sugar!
  • lemurcat2
    lemurcat2 Posts: 7,885 Member
    I'm sure it has worked for people (they have all the anecdotal stuff that every other diet that claims to cure this or that does), and you often don't need to count on super restrictive diets since it takes a while to figure out what to eat. It's going to be high fiber and (especially at first) pretty low cal, and will cause weight loss (which often puts T2D in remission).

    I wouldn't do it personally since too restrictive and cuts out foods I think are quite nutritious and others that I like in moderation. But I also don't think of "you don't need to count" as some big plus in a weight-loss approach, as understanding calories and where I was getting too many was educational for me and quite interesting. (I count occasionally at maintenance, but mostly not.)
  • dsboohead
    dsboohead Posts: 1,899 Member
    NovusDies wrote: »
    The theory is that any weight loss can help with diabetes. The danger for the diabetic is that if your BG gets too high you could end up in the hospital or worse.

    The other problem is that the diet is highly restrictive which may make it very hard to follow for some people. It also probably allows for things like nuts which can blow a calorie deficit for the day and since you are not counting you might not know.

    Since the occurrences of diabetes in my family runs really high and I see how they eat and then some die early because they don't accomplish carb control or weight loss I suggest you start with carb control. Then once you have that under control try to start losing weight with as few other changes as needed.

    Ditto!
  • nvmomketo
    nvmomketo Posts: 12,019 Member
    cathipa wrote: »
    The theory is that lipotoxicity is the driver for diabetes. High sugar is a symptom of diabetes, but not the cause. Consumption of too much fat (typically saturated) which is then deposited into the cells and does not allow insulin to do its job which is to allow glucose into the cell. If you avoid fat then the cells can essentially purge the fat and the insulin will be able to do its job more effectively. This does not work for everyone (especially people who have been diabetic for many years), but could improve their course (i.e. possibly decreasing medications). Dr. Barnard runs Physicians Center for Responsible Medicine (PCRM) and is backed by science. There is another group of guys who are diabetic (Mastering Diabetes) who promote similar plans. It couldn't hurt to try (with the assistance of your physician of course).

    How does saturated fat inhibit insulin from doing its job?

    You may find this interesting:
    http://www.tuitnutrition.com/2019/03/insulin-glucagon-pancreas.html?m=1
  • durhammfp
    durhammfp Posts: 494 Member
    edited April 2019
    I don't know about reversing diabetes but I do know that six months ago I started losing weight with calorie restriction alone (target: 1-1.5 lb loss per week)** and last week I got my annual physical blood work back.

    I had lost just 35 lbs. My FBG went from 103 to 77 and my A1C from the mid 5s to 4.9. My lipids improved a lot too.

    I was high overweight but not obese and not diagnosed T2D. I come from a family, though, where a sibling, one parent, and two grandparents are/were diabetics and the other parent was prediabetic, before dying with Alzheimer's disease recently. I am trying to get ahead of T2D as aggressively and as fast as I can.

    Also, concerning that extreme vegan diet: I went on that myself a few years ago, or one very much like it. (I can't remember if it was Barnard or Fuhrman but it was one of those and as well as being vegan it completely forbade any potatoes, any alcohol, any refined oils, and any coffee. COFFEE!! I mean, dear god, man, WTAKitten?!)

    Previously I had been a lacto-veg for quite a while, so I was totally groovy with eating a whole-plant-food-based diet; however, I just found that vegan diet so restrictive that it drove me nuts. I was constantly obsessing about food and I lost barely a pound a week for 12 weeks. Then I fell off the wagon hard and regained all of it pretty quickly. YMMV.

    My current "weight loss journey" has worked much better for me since I am eating in a way that is really sustainable, again, for me.

    I think any diet undertaken to improve a health outcome should be done in consultation with a competent medical professional who really knows you and your medical history. Again, YMMV, but this is how I feel about my own health.

    ** Meaning my macros on MFP are set at their default--50% carb, 30% fat, 20% protein--because that pretty much mirrors how I eat anyway and I have been happy with that. Also I feel like I'm hitting my micronutrients pretty well with that macro split.
  • MikePTY
    MikePTY Posts: 3,814 Member
    This Dr. Bernard is not a nutritionist or endocrinologist, so I'm not exactly sure why he is developing diets to treat diabetes.
  • zeejane03
    zeejane03 Posts: 993 Member
    cathipa wrote: »
    MikePTY wrote: »
    This Dr. Bernard is not a nutritionist or endocrinologist, so I'm not exactly sure why he is developing diets to treat diabetes.

    Hmmm...a doctor wanting to treat people for a medical problem with a healthy diet and not medication. How novel. I didn't realize you had to be a nutritionist or endocrinologist to treat a condition which affects the whole body.

    Usually I'm pretty skeptical when it comes to doctors pushing a certain way of eating, however a quick google search shows his credentials seem pretty decent-

    MD, George Washington University School of Medicine[17]
    Board Certified, American Board of Psychiatry and Neurology[18]
    Fellow, American College of Cardiology[19]
    Lifetime Member, American Medical Association[20]
    Licensed in Medicine and Surgery, District of Columbia[21]
    Fellow of the American College of Cardiology, 2015[22]
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neal_D._Barnard


  • cathipa
    cathipa Posts: 2,991 Member
    MikePTY wrote: »
    MikePTY wrote: »
    This Dr. Bernard is not a nutritionist or endocrinologist, so I'm not exactly sure why he is developing diets to treat diabetes.

    $$$$$$$$

    (And, in his case, I'm guessing there is also an ideological component).

    It just kills me that so many people will trust anything that someone who is a doctor will say, even if it's not their area of expertise. These type of people really love to highlight that they are a doctor to give themselves credibility but being a doctor doesn't mean you know everything there is to know about medicine, especially if it's outside the area of specialty.

    Or the internet or journalist or blogger...
  • lemurcat2
    lemurcat2 Posts: 7,885 Member
    I think his interest is definitely to some degree because he's ethically a vegan (I believe), but that doesn't mean it's not one approach that will work. It seems pretty clear that many people control their diabetes or put it into remission by limiting carbs per meal and making sure it's combined with fiber, and to some extent this diet is going to do that too.

    Weight loss also puts T2D in remission for most people. I would not consider T2D in remission if one's body still could not handle an occasional higher carb meal -- remission = being insulin sensitive again.
  • lemurcat2
    lemurcat2 Posts: 7,885 Member
    kimny72 wrote: »
    nvmomketo wrote: »
    kimny72 wrote: »
    nvmomketo wrote: »
    kimny72 wrote: »
    nvmomketo wrote: »
    I think it could work eventually once weight is lost. Maybe. For some. I have tested my bg before and after eating a lot if carbs from vegetables or fruit so I know that my bg could not handle it.

    The only proven ways to reverse (successfully teeat) t2d, at this point are bariatric surgery, a vlcd using meal replacement or a lchf ketogenic diet.

    https://www.mdpi.com/2072-6643/11/4/766

    Your link doesn't say anything is proven. It says there is evidence that bariatric surgery is the most effective way to reverse T2D, and while there is some evidence that a LCD (not VLCD) or LC look convincing in the short term, there is no long term data. Quoted from the Summary:

    "The current body of evidence suggests that bariatric surgery is the most effective method
    for overall efficacy and prolonged remission, even though concerns associated with surgical
    complications, treatment cost and complete lifestyle modification after surgery remain challenges for
    wide adoption of this approach. While both the LCD and LC dietary approaches are convincing for
    reversing diabetes in the short term (up to two years), long term maintenance of diabetes remission
    is still unproven. There are limited available data supporting long term maintenance of weight loss
    and its associated glycemic improvements in response to LCD; similarly, long-term adherence to a
    low carbohydrate diet will likely remain an obstacle without the development of proper patient
    education and optimal support for long-term behavioral change. Moreover, research in
    understanding the mechanism of diabetes reversibility in all three approaches and its overlapping
    mechanistic pathways are lacking; this is an area for future research emphasis."


    Diabetes treatment is evolving right now for sure, it's important people realize there are several different ways to deal with it, both traditional methods (which do work well for many people) and emerging alternate ideas as well.

    I'll rephrase it.

    The only ways shown to reverse t2d are bariatric surgery, vlcd, and ketogenic diets.

    The LCD diets it refer to are between 600-1000 kcal worth of food and parts used meal replacement shakes. I consider that to be vlcd. Ymmv Sadly, most could not sustain those diets for more than a few months so the reversal was fleeting.

    There are very few lchf long term studies on t2d. The longest I know is virta at 2 years, a d I think its success rate was above 70%.

    There are probably some who reversed their t2d on other protocols but they are either unstudied or uncommon enough to not be studied yet.

    I still disagree with the bolded. The only ways noted in this particular research were three ways. One research study does not define the totality of what is known about a subject.

    As far as the last sentence in your post, it would require parsing the semantics of what "reversed T2D" actually means, and I don't think it's worth it. There are thousands of people walking around right now with at least well-controlled diabetes who will live long, healthy lives on traditional protocols. Whether or not that's considered "reversed" I suspect depends on which POV one uses.

    Those are the accepted treatments that reverse t2d, meaning normal bg without meds, regardless of whether you agree.

    As I said, there may be other ways to get there, but those are the accepted ways in the journals.

    That's weird, everything I'm finding online is only saying that those are 3 possible ways, along with a 4th way - exercise, not that those are the only "accepted" ways. And interestingly, those are all ways to lose weight. Maybe that has something to do with it.

    Even apart from weight loss, exercise tends to increase insulin sensitivity, as does weight loss.

    So does WLS and VLCD (and, from what I've read, WFPB). Keto does not. It controls symptoms. I think that's valuable if one has failed at other ways to put the disease in remission, but not the ideal if one could restore insulin sensitivity.

    I think keto often leads to weight loss, so is good for that reason.
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