Keto and Fiber
BurningSkies2018
Posts: 64 Member
I started on Keto a week or two back and honestly it has been working out really well. I picked it up towards mid/late April and had been generally watching what I've been eating since the beginning of April and ended up losing around 16 lbs alone in April.
However, as much as I am enjoying it I notice that my diet severely lacks in fiber. I did buy some ground flaxseed and it's honestly not too terribly bad when trying to make anything with it I cannot get past the slimy texture at times. I've tried making some of the flaxseed crackers, and they are okay but I still get that off-putting mouth-feel it has.
What alternatives are there for good sources of fiber that isn't super carb heavy? I know that cabbage offers some but I'm not sure if just eating cabbage regularly is going to be enough?
I never lead an incredibly healthy lifestyle prior to trying to make a change for the better and I never did bother caring about ingredients or what was in the foods I was eating. I know in the App, it says there's a daily goal but I have no idea how to reach that goal without also going over on carbs, as well.
Thanks for taking the time to read.
However, as much as I am enjoying it I notice that my diet severely lacks in fiber. I did buy some ground flaxseed and it's honestly not too terribly bad when trying to make anything with it I cannot get past the slimy texture at times. I've tried making some of the flaxseed crackers, and they are okay but I still get that off-putting mouth-feel it has.
What alternatives are there for good sources of fiber that isn't super carb heavy? I know that cabbage offers some but I'm not sure if just eating cabbage regularly is going to be enough?
I never lead an incredibly healthy lifestyle prior to trying to make a change for the better and I never did bother caring about ingredients or what was in the foods I was eating. I know in the App, it says there's a daily goal but I have no idea how to reach that goal without also going over on carbs, as well.
Thanks for taking the time to read.
1
Replies
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Check Dr berg on youtube. He suggests that half your plate should be vegetables along with suggests.2
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Hey I do low carb as well. I eat all berries, strawberries, broccoli cabbage. Squash, peppers. Those are the things I like. I also eat dark covered chocolate almonds.0
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You don’t need fiber if you aren’t eating carbs. Lots of people follow a Carnivore diet and their bowels work just fine. I follow a Keto diet myself, and have done carnivore in the past. Very rarely does my fiber get above 10g, today I’ve had exactly 0g.17
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As a possibly-different option for the flaxseed, have you tried putting it on crunchy peanut butter, where it's just kind of pleasantly crunchy? Sorry, I don't know about other alternatives, because I'm non-keto vegetarian, and eat crazy-big amounts of fiber-rich veggies.
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WholeFoods4Lyfe wrote: »You don’t need fiber if you aren’t eating carbs. Lots of people follow a Carnivore diet and their bowels work just fine. I follow a Keto diet myself, and have done carnivore in the past. Very rarely does my fiber get above 10g, today I’ve had exactly 0g.
This is right. Fibre is useful in a diet with a fair bit of plants. If it is low or absent of plants, fibre is of no real use. I have been eating almost all animal products for a year and the only time I have BM issues is when I eat carbs.
If you want fibre, I would try to ensure your carbs are whole foods/plants. Vegetables, fruit and bits have a high ratio of fibre.
If things get... backed up, more salt or fats often does the trick.
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WholeFoods4Lyfe wrote: »You don’t need fiber if you aren’t eating carbs. Lots of people follow a Carnivore diet and their bowels work just fine. I follow a Keto diet myself, and have done carnivore in the past. Very rarely does my fiber get above 10g, today I’ve had exactly 0g.
This is right. Fibre is useful in a diet with a fair bit of plants. If it is low or absent of plants, fibre is of no real use. I have been eating almost all animal products for a year and the only time I have BM issues is when I eat carbs.
If you want fibre, I would try to ensure your carbs are whole foods/plants. Vegetables, fruit and bits have a high ratio of fibre.
If things get... backed up, more salt or fats often does the trick.
I do wonder whether having so little fibre is actually working out fine long term, even with regular bowel motions. This is because I am at a greater risk of bowel cancer and a low fibre, high fat amd high meat diet is the opposite of what experts recommend in this situation.
The thing about bowel cancer is that it isna silent killer. You often don't know you have it until it is too late, despite being quite treatable if caught early.12 -
Lillymoo01 wrote: »WholeFoods4Lyfe wrote: »You don’t need fiber if you aren’t eating carbs. Lots of people follow a Carnivore diet and their bowels work just fine. I follow a Keto diet myself, and have done carnivore in the past. Very rarely does my fiber get above 10g, today I’ve had exactly 0g.
This is right. Fibre is useful in a diet with a fair bit of plants. If it is low or absent of plants, fibre is of no real use. I have been eating almost all animal products for a year and the only time I have BM issues is when I eat carbs.
If you want fibre, I would try to ensure your carbs are whole foods/plants. Vegetables, fruit and bits have a high ratio of fibre.
If things get... backed up, more salt or fats often does the trick.
I do wonder whether having so little fibre is actually working out fine long term, even with regular bowel motions. This is because I am at a greater risk of bowel cancer and a low fibre, high fat amd high meat diet is the opposite of what experts recommend in this situation.
The thing about bowel cancer is that it isna silent killer. You often don't know you have it until it is too late, despite being quite treatable if caught early.
I think the problem is there is very little data to support the body doesn't need or benefit from fiber. And i have read the hypothesis that if you are on a keto diet, that fiber isn't needed. So the question is, do you want to base your nutrition on a hypothesis?11 -
I’m not eating keto, just low carb, so not sure if this will help : I add berries, seeds and nuts to strained yoghurt. Eating flax and chia this way is tasty. These are high fibre foods. (Also eat plenty of non-starchy vegetables).2
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Funnily enough, I find a fast food meal often gets things moving again if I'm stuck. Must be the fat.0
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Lillymoo01 wrote: »WholeFoods4Lyfe wrote: »You don’t need fiber if you aren’t eating carbs. Lots of people follow a Carnivore diet and their bowels work just fine. I follow a Keto diet myself, and have done carnivore in the past. Very rarely does my fiber get above 10g, today I’ve had exactly 0g.
This is right. Fibre is useful in a diet with a fair bit of plants. If it is low or absent of plants, fibre is of no real use. I have been eating almost all animal products for a year and the only time I have BM issues is when I eat carbs.
If you want fibre, I would try to ensure your carbs are whole foods/plants. Vegetables, fruit and bits have a high ratio of fibre.
If things get... backed up, more salt or fats often does the trick.
I do wonder whether having so little fibre is actually working out fine long term, even with regular bowel motions. This is because I am at a greater risk of bowel cancer and a low fibre, high fat amd high meat diet is the opposite of what experts recommend in this situation.
The thing about bowel cancer is that it isna silent killer. You often don't know you have it until it is too late, despite being quite treatable if caught early.
Only processed meats have a correlation with colon cancer (increases risk by 20%). Evidence that red meat leads to colon cancer is lacking. I find it unlikely that this whole food, valued and eaten for thousands of years, is responsible for rising rates of colon cancer - red meat intake has dropped off and only chicken intake is really rising.
Evidence that fibre alone reduces risk of colon cancer if carb intake is low is also lacking. Fibre does appear to be beneficial to those eating more carbs. Colon cancer risk is associated with a diet high in simple/refined carbs and low fibre - I think risk doubles. I believe colon cancer recurrence rates and risk of death are higher in those with a higher carb diet, but if they had a normal BMI that risk dropped off. Hyperinsulinemia may be part of the problem. I saw risk of colon cancer increases over 120% if T2D.
There are many risk factors that may lead to colorectal cancer. Processed meat has a lower risk that diets high in refined carbs or those with T2D. Unprocessed meat appears to not correlate with colon cancer risk increase. My diet is largely beef, pork, dairy, eggs, seafood and some poultry. My food that presents the biggest risk is pepperoni, and bacon on the weekend.
We take the risks we believe are worth it. I am limiting carbs, and I presume you limit refined carbs. We do what works best for us.
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Lillymoo01 wrote: »WholeFoods4Lyfe wrote: »You don’t need fiber if you aren’t eating carbs. Lots of people follow a Carnivore diet and their bowels work just fine. I follow a Keto diet myself, and have done carnivore in the past. Very rarely does my fiber get above 10g, today I’ve had exactly 0g.
This is right. Fibre is useful in a diet with a fair bit of plants. If it is low or absent of plants, fibre is of no real use. I have been eating almost all animal products for a year and the only time I have BM issues is when I eat carbs.
If you want fibre, I would try to ensure your carbs are whole foods/plants. Vegetables, fruit and bits have a high ratio of fibre.
If things get... backed up, more salt or fats often does the trick.
I do wonder whether having so little fibre is actually working out fine long term, even with regular bowel motions. This is because I am at a greater risk of bowel cancer and a low fibre, high fat amd high meat diet is the opposite of what experts recommend in this situation.
The thing about bowel cancer is that it isna silent killer. You often don't know you have it until it is too late, despite being quite treatable if caught early.
Only processed meats have a correlation with colon cancer (increases risk by 20%). Evidence that red meat leads to colon cancer is lacking. I find it unlikely that this whole food, valued and eaten for thousands of years, is responsible for rising rates of colon cancer - red meat intake has dropped off and only chicken intake is really rising.
Evidence that fibre alone reduces risk of colon cancer if carb intake is low is also lacking. Fibre does appear to be beneficial to those eating more carbs. Colon cancer risk is associated with a diet high in simple/refined carbs and low fibre - I think risk doubles. I believe colon cancer recurrence rates and risk of death are higher in those with a higher carb diet, but if they had a normal BMI that risk dropped off. Hyperinsulinemia may be part of the problem. I saw risk of colon cancer increases over 120% if T2D.
There are many risk factors that may lead to colorectal cancer. Processed meat has a lower risk that diets high in refined carbs or those with T2D. Unprocessed meat appears to not correlate with colon cancer risk increase. My diet is largely beef, pork, dairy, eggs, seafood and some poultry. My food that presents the biggest risk is pepperoni, and bacon on the weekend.
We take the risks we believe are worth it. I am limiting carbs, and I presume you limit refined carbs. We do what works best for us.
The evidence correlating fiber and improved health is extremely strong and prevalent. You just don't accept it because it doesn't align to your personal view. I have already shown multiple meta-analyses in support of that position. But yet you readily accept a hypothesis as means to justify that fiber is unnecessary.15 -
Lillymoo01 wrote: »WholeFoods4Lyfe wrote: »You don’t need fiber if you aren’t eating carbs. Lots of people follow a Carnivore diet and their bowels work just fine. I follow a Keto diet myself, and have done carnivore in the past. Very rarely does my fiber get above 10g, today I’ve had exactly 0g.
This is right. Fibre is useful in a diet with a fair bit of plants. If it is low or absent of plants, fibre is of no real use. I have been eating almost all animal products for a year and the only time I have BM issues is when I eat carbs.
If you want fibre, I would try to ensure your carbs are whole foods/plants. Vegetables, fruit and bits have a high ratio of fibre.
If things get... backed up, more salt or fats often does the trick.
I do wonder whether having so little fibre is actually working out fine long term, even with regular bowel motions. This is because I am at a greater risk of bowel cancer and a low fibre, high fat amd high meat diet is the opposite of what experts recommend in this situation.
The thing about bowel cancer is that it isna silent killer. You often don't know you have it until it is too late, despite being quite treatable if caught early.
Only processed meats have a correlation with colon cancer (increases risk by 20%). Evidence that red meat leads to colon cancer is lacking. I find it unlikely that this whole food, valued and eaten for thousands of years, is responsible for rising rates of colon cancer - red meat intake has dropped off and only chicken intake is really rising.
Evidence that fibre alone reduces risk of colon cancer if carb intake is low is also lacking. Fibre does appear to be beneficial to those eating more carbs. Colon cancer risk is associated with a diet high in simple/refined carbs and low fibre - I think risk doubles. I believe colon cancer recurrence rates and risk of death are higher in those with a higher carb diet, but if they had a normal BMI that risk dropped off. Hyperinsulinemia may be part of the problem. I saw risk of colon cancer increases over 120% if T2D.
There are many risk factors that may lead to colorectal cancer. Processed meat has a lower risk that diets high in refined carbs or those with T2D. Unprocessed meat appears to not correlate with colon cancer risk increase. My diet is largely beef, pork, dairy, eggs, seafood and some poultry. My food that presents the biggest risk is pepperoni, and bacon on the weekend.
We take the risks we believe are worth it. I am limiting carbs, and I presume you limit refined carbs. We do what works best for us.
The evidence correlating fiber and improved health is extremely strong and prevalent. You just don't accept it because it doesn't align to your personal view. I have already shown multiple meta-analyses in support of that position. But yet you readily accept a hypothesis as means to justify that fiber is unnecessary.
Fibre on its own? Really?
As I said, it appears to be beneficial with carbs, as in one is not eating refined carbs then.
Show me something that shows lots of fibre is great when one is eating very few carbs. That's what I want to see. Not that fibre is helpful to diets with plenty of carbs. These are separate issues that you tend to conflate.
But I will be happy to read anything you have on the high colon cancer rates of people with a mostly animal diet like the inuit, plains first nations, mongols, etc. I can't find anything.4 -
Lillymoo01 wrote: »WholeFoods4Lyfe wrote: »You don’t need fiber if you aren’t eating carbs. Lots of people follow a Carnivore diet and their bowels work just fine. I follow a Keto diet myself, and have done carnivore in the past. Very rarely does my fiber get above 10g, today I’ve had exactly 0g.
This is right. Fibre is useful in a diet with a fair bit of plants. If it is low or absent of plants, fibre is of no real use. I have been eating almost all animal products for a year and the only time I have BM issues is when I eat carbs.
If you want fibre, I would try to ensure your carbs are whole foods/plants. Vegetables, fruit and bits have a high ratio of fibre.
If things get... backed up, more salt or fats often does the trick.
I do wonder whether having so little fibre is actually working out fine long term, even with regular bowel motions. This is because I am at a greater risk of bowel cancer and a low fibre, high fat amd high meat diet is the opposite of what experts recommend in this situation.
The thing about bowel cancer is that it isna silent killer. You often don't know you have it until it is too late, despite being quite treatable if caught early.
Only processed meats have a correlation with colon cancer (increases risk by 20%). Evidence that red meat leads to colon cancer is lacking. I find it unlikely that this whole food, valued and eaten for thousands of years, is responsible for rising rates of colon cancer - red meat intake has dropped off and only chicken intake is really rising.
Evidence that fibre alone reduces risk of colon cancer if carb intake is low is also lacking. Fibre does appear to be beneficial to those eating more carbs. Colon cancer risk is associated with a diet high in simple/refined carbs and low fibre - I think risk doubles. I believe colon cancer recurrence rates and risk of death are higher in those with a higher carb diet, but if they had a normal BMI that risk dropped off. Hyperinsulinemia may be part of the problem. I saw risk of colon cancer increases over 120% if T2D.
There are many risk factors that may lead to colorectal cancer. Processed meat has a lower risk that diets high in refined carbs or those with T2D. Unprocessed meat appears to not correlate with colon cancer risk increase. My diet is largely beef, pork, dairy, eggs, seafood and some poultry. My food that presents the biggest risk is pepperoni, and bacon on the weekend.
We take the risks we believe are worth it. I am limiting carbs, and I presume you limit refined carbs. We do what works best for us.
The evidence correlating fiber and improved health is extremely strong and prevalent. You just don't accept it because it doesn't align to your personal view. I have already shown multiple meta-analyses in support of that position. But yet you readily accept a hypothesis as means to justify that fiber is unnecessary.
Fibre on its own? Really?
As I said, it appears to be beneficial with carbs, as in one is not eating refined carbs then.
Show me something that shows lots of fibre is great when one is eating very few carbs. That's what I want to see. Not that fibre is helpful to diets with plenty of carbs. These are separate issues that you tend to conflate.
But I will be happy to read anything you have on the high colon cancer rates of people with a mostly animal diet like the inuit, plains first nations, mongols, etc. I can't find anything.
Show me research that states a low fibre/low carb diet is recommended for bowel cancer prevention, especially if it is high in saturated fats.5 -
I add a spoon wheat bran to my food - works for me.0
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Lillymoo01 wrote: »WholeFoods4Lyfe wrote: »You don’t need fiber if you aren’t eating carbs. Lots of people follow a Carnivore diet and their bowels work just fine. I follow a Keto diet myself, and have done carnivore in the past. Very rarely does my fiber get above 10g, today I’ve had exactly 0g.
This is right. Fibre is useful in a diet with a fair bit of plants. If it is low or absent of plants, fibre is of no real use. I have been eating almost all animal products for a year and the only time I have BM issues is when I eat carbs.
If you want fibre, I would try to ensure your carbs are whole foods/plants. Vegetables, fruit and bits have a high ratio of fibre.
If things get... backed up, more salt or fats often does the trick.
I do wonder whether having so little fibre is actually working out fine long term, even with regular bowel motions. This is because I am at a greater risk of bowel cancer and a low fibre, high fat amd high meat diet is the opposite of what experts recommend in this situation.
The thing about bowel cancer is that it isna silent killer. You often don't know you have it until it is too late, despite being quite treatable if caught early.
Only processed meats have a correlation with colon cancer (increases risk by 20%). Evidence that red meat leads to colon cancer is lacking. I find it unlikely that this whole food, valued and eaten for thousands of years, is responsible for rising rates of colon cancer - red meat intake has dropped off and only chicken intake is really rising.
Evidence that fibre alone reduces risk of colon cancer if carb intake is low is also lacking. Fibre does appear to be beneficial to those eating more carbs. Colon cancer risk is associated with a diet high in simple/refined carbs and low fibre - I think risk doubles. I believe colon cancer recurrence rates and risk of death are higher in those with a higher carb diet, but if they had a normal BMI that risk dropped off. Hyperinsulinemia may be part of the problem. I saw risk of colon cancer increases over 120% if T2D.
There are many risk factors that may lead to colorectal cancer. Processed meat has a lower risk that diets high in refined carbs or those with T2D. Unprocessed meat appears to not correlate with colon cancer risk increase. My diet is largely beef, pork, dairy, eggs, seafood and some poultry. My food that presents the biggest risk is pepperoni, and bacon on the weekend.
We take the risks we believe are worth it. I am limiting carbs, and I presume you limit refined carbs. We do what works best for us.
The evidence correlating fiber and improved health is extremely strong and prevalent. You just don't accept it because it doesn't align to your personal view. I have already shown multiple meta-analyses in support of that position. But yet you readily accept a hypothesis as means to justify that fiber is unnecessary.
Fibre on its own? Really?
As I said, it appears to be beneficial with carbs, as in one is not eating refined carbs then.
Show me something that shows lots of fibre is great when one is eating very few carbs. That's what I want to see. Not that fibre is helpful to diets with plenty of carbs. These are separate issues that you tend to conflate.
But I will be happy to read anything you have on the high colon cancer rates of people with a mostly animal diet like the inuit, plains first nations, mongols, etc. I can't find anything.
Considering you and probably everyone else on this board is not an Inuit, plant first nations or mongol, the application of not really going to apply. Essentially, it's the equivalent of trying to correlate how an 18 year old male responds to training as compared a 50 year old woman. It's like saying the ketogenic diet is great for preserving muscle, when the only studies we have are in overweight and obese individuals. Lean individuals respond differently and that is well documented in the bodybuilding community.
This I am going to narrow down the scope of evidence to the smallest and most improbable level to "prove a theory" is not helpful. The fact is, you can't prove that a body that isn't consuming carbs doesn't need fiber. Why? Because there is no evidence behind it. It's a theory.
Colon cancer has a relative increase in risk of 20-30% with processed meats; so your absolute increase is 1-1.5%. I haven't seen a meta-analysis as it relates to processed carbs, so please provide that.4 -
Remember that fiber doesn't count on Keto. What you are looking for is net carbs. Basically any carbs that the body converts to glucose. Fiber is not converted to glucose and therefore doesn't count when you add up your carb intake. Vegetables contain sugars as well but many of them have high carbs not because of the fiber but because of the sugars. That's why fruit has higher carbs because they contain more fruit sugar and less fiber that non starchy vegetables. Example is one cup of raspberries contains 13g or carbs but 7g are actually from fiber so that serving on a Keto diet would account for only 6g of net carbs (6g sugars + 7g fiber = 13g total carbs)
Non-starchy vegetables like broccoli, cauliflower, cucumbers, celery, tomatoes etc are great for Keto. Also fiber comes in good form in nuts and other seeds like sunflower or pumpkin kernels. They are delicious and contain fat, fiber and protein.1 -
I have IBS/C. I absolutely have to have fiber or my whole system is backed up and in chaos. I do well with 20-25g a day or even a little more.0
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https://julianbakery.com/product/pro-granola-paleo-cereal-two-paleo-granola/
Some days I get less than 10 g fiber from vegetables. Some days I don't #2. Depending how much I care about that, some days I have a bowl of 2 servings of that granola with 3 oz of homemade kefir. It's 24 grams of fiber. Next days usually everything is cleared out.
I've also used Nopalina and chia seeds to increase fiber intake without much carbs. In my breakfast scrambled eggs this morning, I included an ounce of spinach, along with 5 g chia and 4 g Nopalina. Once it's all cooked together, I don't even notice the chia and Nopalina.0 -
Lillymoo01 wrote: »WholeFoods4Lyfe wrote: »You don’t need fiber if you aren’t eating carbs. Lots of people follow a Carnivore diet and their bowels work just fine. I follow a Keto diet myself, and have done carnivore in the past. Very rarely does my fiber get above 10g, today I’ve had exactly 0g.
This is right. Fibre is useful in a diet with a fair bit of plants. If it is low or absent of plants, fibre is of no real use. I have been eating almost all animal products for a year and the only time I have BM issues is when I eat carbs.
If you want fibre, I would try to ensure your carbs are whole foods/plants. Vegetables, fruit and bits have a high ratio of fibre.
If things get... backed up, more salt or fats often does the trick.
I do wonder whether having so little fibre is actually working out fine long term, even with regular bowel motions. This is because I am at a greater risk of bowel cancer and a low fibre, high fat amd high meat diet is the opposite of what experts recommend in this situation.
The thing about bowel cancer is that it isna silent killer. You often don't know you have it until it is too late, despite being quite treatable if caught early.
I had a very large precancerous polyp removed from my colon last year. Now I make sure to eat 30 grams of fiber a day. Also, I eat absolutely no cured meat (direct link to colon cancer), cut way back on alcohol (another proven risk factor for colon cancer) and eat red meat less than once a month (no direct link to greater colon cancer risk, but lowering overall saturated fat is deemed a good idea). Fiber is mportant if you have an increased risk of colon cancer because of family history.
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WholeFoods4Lyfe wrote: »You don’t need fiber if you aren’t eating carbs. Lots of people follow a Carnivore diet and their bowels work just fine. I follow a Keto diet myself, and have done carnivore in the past. Very rarely does my fiber get above 10g, today I’ve had exactly 0g.
Maybe I should start a dedicated thread, but... could you please explain me the difference between keto and carnivore?0 -
Carnivore=only animal products (meat, maybe a little dairy and eggs).
Keto=keep carbs low enough that you are in ketosis regularly. Often people eat below 20 g net carbs, but if you are active and depending on size up to below 50 g net carbs could be keto. Often just means a very low carb diet.
Someone doing carnivore would be in ketosis, normally, but most people doing keto are not doing carnivore.1 -
Great info!0
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Carnivore=only animal products (meat, maybe a little dairy and eggs).
Keto=keep carbs low enough that you are in ketosis regularly. Often people eat below 20 g net carbs, but if you are active and depending on size up to below 50 g net carbs could be keto. Often just means a very low carb diet.
Someone doing carnivore would be in ketosis, normally, but most people doing keto are not doing carnivore.
Thanks!0
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