Keto and calories
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matilda116
Posts: 2 Member
I’ve been eating Keto for about 2 weeks. I’ve been tracking my macros for one week. Help! I’m over doing my carbs and protein, by a few grams, and under doing my fats by several grams. My percentages are off, of course, but looking at the big picture they seem a bit closer to the 5%, 20% & 75% recommendation. My challenge come with my calories, they are way under my goal. I’m consistently under more than 100 calories per my goal. How do you get your calories with out overdoing your proteins and carbs? The one day I did meet (and went over) my goals I still came up short on calories. 😒
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Replies
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First, make certain that you are weighing and logging your food accurately.
If that is properly done, inspect the NET carbs. That is, for a food item, carbs minus fiber is the NET carbs.
Once you see your net carbs, decide what you want to do about it.
Things like bread, rice, potato, pasta, are only possible in tiny amounts if you're going to keep your net carbs to 5%.
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It's not bad to go over protein on keto, especially if you are starting with a low goal like 20%.
Good way to estimate protein (as a goal, not a limit) is 0.8 g of a healthy goal weight. If at your calories that's more than 20% (which it likely is), you'd want to eat more than 20%.5 -
I did keto last summer, but had to quick due to side effects. Anyhow, easy way to add calories without adding carbs and protein is simple. It is fat - butter, oils, fattier cuts of meat, high fat low carb cheeses.
As for going over in protein or not, and how it effects keto.... What I recall being told is that the reason that you do not want to go over in protein on Keto is because any protein beyond your daily needs gets turned into glucose like a carbohydrate, called gluconeogenesis. This can throw you out of ketosis. The math for your protein is 0.7–0.9 grams of protein per pound of body weight. I would then see what % of daily calories is that number for you and aim for that.
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I did keto last summer, but had to quick due to side effects. Anyhow, easy way to add calories without adding carbs and protein is simple. It is fat - butter, oils, fattier cuts of meat, high fat low carb cheeses.
As for going over in protein or not, and how it effects keto.... What I recall being told is that the reason that you do not want to go over in protein on Keto is because any protein beyond your daily needs gets turned into glucose like a carbohydrate, called gluconeogenesis. This can throw you out of ketosis. The math for your protein is 0.7–0.9 grams of protein per pound of body weight. I would then see what % of daily calories is that number for you and aim for that.
And what most keto'ers don't tell you either or don't know, is fatty acids are also converted to glucose through gluconegenesis. The real only impact would be for those with medical needs that need to be in ketosis or need high levels of ketones as protein can blunt ketone levels by a little. This is a non issue for 99.9% of people.
OP, I would work on getting carbs down and then let protein and fat fall where ever. The ONLY requirement for ketosis is carb level.6 -
Protein is not going to kick you out of ketosis at the level I suggested. Some of the youtube/internet keto gurus for some reason have unnecessarily low levels of protein, and that's not a good idea as muscle maintenance actually requires more protein on keto: https://caloriesproper.com/protein-ketosis-and-lean-mass/2
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Lemon and Lemur, Thanks for better answers than I gave. I only did it 5 weeks, learned what I could, but found it was wrong for me (or at least the way I did it was).
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And what most keto'ers don't tell you either or don't know, is fatty acids are also converted to glucose through gluconegenesis. The real only impact would be for those with medical needs that need to be in ketosis or need high levels of ketones as protein can blunt ketone levels by a little. This is a non issue for 99.9% of people.
OP, I would work on getting carbs down and then let protein and fat fall where ever. The ONLY requirement for ketosis is carb level.
This isn't quite right. You do want to be careful of too much protein, because some of the amino acids in protein can be converted to glucose in the blood for energy. Fatty acids are processed by the liver to be converted into energy by way of ketones--eventually into glucose, but it's a more complex process that your body does after other energy sources are depleted. That's the whole idea.
That being said, you can probably eat more protein than you have been and still be in ketosis. One way to know is to get the urine test strips from the drug store. I'm not sure what my % of protein is, but I've been aiming for 50-60 grams per day and only 30 grams of carbs. It did take me some time to think about how to incorporate enough fats to hit my calorie goal. One thing that helped was a high-fat biscuit recipe made with almond flour, eggs, butter. There are blogs out there with recipe ideas which also helped me.
https://www.wholesomeyum.com/recipes/paleo-almond-flour-biscuits-low-carb-gluten-free/13 -
Thanks everyone for you input!! I’m continuing to research and work out what works best for me. Yesterday I had a good day balancing my macros and I was only 71calories away from my ‘daily goal’! Salads with oil and vinegar was my go to to get my fats, bring on dark green salads 🤗.2
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And what most keto'ers don't tell you either or don't know, is fatty acids are also converted to glucose through gluconegenesis. The real only impact would be for those with medical needs that need to be in ketosis or need high levels of ketones as protein can blunt ketone levels by a little. This is a non issue for 99.9% of people.
OP, I would work on getting carbs down and then let protein and fat fall where ever. The ONLY requirement for ketosis is carb level.
This isn't quite right. You do want to be careful of too much protein, because some of the amino acids in protein can be converted to glucose in the blood for energy. Fatty acids are processed by the liver to be converted into energy by way of ketones--eventually into glucose, but it's a more complex process that your body does after other energy sources are depleted. That's the whole idea.
That being said, you can probably eat more protein than you have been and still be in ketosis. One way to know is to get the urine test strips from the drug store. I'm not sure what my % of protein is, but I've been aiming for 50-60 grams per day and only 30 grams of carbs. It did take me some time to think about how to incorporate enough fats to hit my calorie goal. One thing that helped was a high-fat biscuit recipe made with almond flour, eggs, butter. There are blogs out there with recipe ideas which also helped me.
https://www.wholesomeyum.com/recipes/paleo-almond-flour-biscuits-low-carb-gluten-free/
I am sorry, but gluconegeneis is a demand driven process. It doesn't happen just to happen. On top of that, it is never just from amino acids. It's roughly 60% amino acid, 40% fatty acid.
http://www.tuitnutrition.com/2017/07/gluconeogenesis.html
There is ZERO evidence that even ridiculously high protein will prevent ketosis. If you happen to have a study, I would love to see it. At this point, I have only seen that stuff promoted by people like Thomas Delauer and other non scientist. Lyle McDonald has some really good information, but so is the above article.6 -
Psulemon, I’m certainly not one to equate protein with sugar. (Although I’m sure there is a lot of misinformation online, even in this community. We need to take care and be wise to decipher truth from error. ) I’ve taken my cues for the Keto Diet from doctors I’ve read online & books. Here’s one article about protein’s role in nutrition and how much we should eat. I don’t think the 2 of us are that far off in our understandings, other than your article tells people to eat as much protein as the want, and mine says to eat it in moderation. Since I am one of the people trying to heal my body with nutrition ( from diabetes), I will err on the side of moderate protein intake.
https://blog.virtahealth.com/how-much-protein-on-keto/
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Psulemon, I’m certainly not one to equate protein with sugar. (Although I’m sure there is a lot of misinformation online, even in this community. We need to take care and be wise to decipher truth from error. ) I’ve taken my cues for the Keto Diet from doctors I’ve read online & books. Here’s one article about protein’s role in nutrition and how much we should eat. I don’t think the 2 of us are that far off in our understandings, other than your article tells people to eat as much protein as the want, and mine says to eat it in moderation. Since I am one of the people trying to heal my body with nutrition ( from diabetes), I will err on the side of moderate protein intake.
https://blog.virtahealth.com/how-much-protein-on-keto/
The 50-60g of protein you're aiming for is not moderate. It's low; too low in my opinion for anyone dieting. Limiting meat/whole food sources of protein in favor of almond flour and butter in order to keep your protein low and your fat intake high is not a good trade off from a nutrition stand point. It's not good advice for anyone eating a ketogenic diet - diabetes or not. Again, in my opinion.
From your article:
But in no case should dietary protein intake be reduced below 1.2 g/kg in the context of a well-formulated ketogenic diet. This range; 1.2 g/kg at the low end and 2.0 g/kg at the upper end, with a 1.5 g/kg mid-range moderate intake target,8 -
Possibly low. Another resource said .8 gm/kg of healthy weight, which is where I started. That calculation got me to 50 gm. Also, I do eat meat & whole food. The almond flour biscuit was just a suggestion.
I'm admittedly a beginner at this. I don't want to argue w/ people about it. I'm trying to learn. And I was trying to help OP to the best of my knowledge. My understanding varied from the other poster's. After reading their article, I see the differences are less than I originally thought, although there are some differences. I believe we both indicated to OP that they could eat more protein than they were eating.1 -
Possibly low. Another resource said .8 gm/kg of healthy weight, which is where I started. That calculation got me to 50 gm. Also, I do eat meat & whole food. The almond flour biscuit was just a suggestion.
I'm admittedly a beginner at this. I don't want to argue w/ people about it. I'm trying to learn. And I was trying to help OP to the best of my knowledge. My understanding varied from the other poster's. After reading their article, I see the differences are less than I originally thought, although there are some differences. I believe we both indicated to OP that they could eat more protein than they were eating.
I understand and I'm sure the OP appreciated your friendly post or at least I know I would!
But my post was for you because I'm concerned your protein goal is way too low - 90g is the low mark for most IME with 125g-135g of protein being more typical for those eating low carb who need to moderate protein. And many need a lot more than that, upwards of 150g and more.
Either or, your Virtra Health link is an excellent source of good information. I hope you'll consider their protein guidelines and recalculate your goals. Sincere best wishes to you.0 -
Possibly low. Another resource said .8 gm/kg of healthy weight, which is where I started. That calculation got me to 50 gm. Also, I do eat meat & whole food. The almond flour biscuit was just a suggestion.
I'm admittedly a beginner at this. I don't want to argue w/ people about it. I'm trying to learn. And I was trying to help OP to the best of my knowledge. My understanding varied from the other poster's. After reading their article, I see the differences are less than I originally thought, although there are some differences. I believe we both indicated to OP that they could eat more protein than they were eating.
Please don't take my correction as argumentative. I was pointing out a piece of information that has not been proven. Even the article you posted with vague and didn't provide any additional value to what is "too much protein". This has been spouted around low carb and keto communities for years. It is false and is not supported by evidence. What is supported is the recommended levels of protein in the article. Overall, the most recent meta-analysis suggest 1.5-2.2g/kg during weight loss or being active (reference). Looking at bodybuilders, who regularly eat 200-300g of protein during cuts, still experience ketosis when restricting carbs to below 50g. That is backed by the research that Lyle McDonald has done. It's why I made that argument for what you posted.
Additionally, if you would like, or anyone would like for that matter, to see tons of data supporting my position, I can certainly provide it. Protein is one of the most studied nutrients in nutritional science. Where it has limited support is protein requirements for those in ketogenic diets. If anything, when carbs are removed from the equation (since carbs are anti-catabolic), protein requirements go up. At least currently, the evidence for lean body mass preservation is not overly favorable for keto. The below is a good summary of it:
If anything, I am hoping you can use some of this information to improve your own fitness journey. I hope as part of your diabetes management that you are also include exercise (especially resistance training) into your protein. Resistance training, more so than cardio, improves insulin sensitivity, which helps your body be able to utilize glucose.4 -
Please don't take my correction as argumentative. I was pointing out a piece of information that has not been proven. Even the article you posted with vague and didn't provide any additional value to what is "too much protein". This has been spouted around low carb and keto communities for years. It is false and is not supported by evidence. What is supported is the recommended levels of protein in the article. Overall, the most recent meta-analysis suggest 1.5-2.2g/kg during weight loss or being active (reference). Looking at bodybuilders, who regularly eat 200-300g of protein during cuts, still experience ketosis when restricting carbs to below 50g. That is backed by the research that Lyle McDonald has done. It's why I made that argument for what you posted.
Additionally, if you would like, or anyone would like for that matter, to see tons of data supporting my position, I can certainly provide it. Protein is one of the most studied nutrients in nutritional science. Where it has limited support is protein requirements for those in ketogenic diets. If anything, when carbs are removed from the equation (since carbs are anti-catabolic), protein requirements go up. At least currently, the evidence for lean body mass preservation is not overly favorable for keto. The below is a good summary of it:
If anything, I am hoping you can use some of this information to improve your own fitness journey. I hope as part of your diabetes management that you are also include exercise (especially resistance training) into your protein. Resistance training, more so than cardio, improves insulin sensitivity, which helps your body be able to utilize glucose.
Thanks for this info.0
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