Marathon training: how do you do it?
RunnerGirl238
Posts: 448 Member
Bucket list goal is an ultra, but to get there I need to get a marathon or two under my belt. (I think I am 2 or 3 years from ultra status- at least- but man, oh, man does it sound fun!)
How are you training for your marathons? Training for a half is easy enough, but the training plans I am researching have me doing weekly long runs of 20+ with tempos and other runs in the 8-14 ranges.
With working full time, two youngish kids, and it being just me (60% of the time), I can't imagine working all the training in. The hours in the day just don't make sense to me.
What does your marathon training schedule look like? I'd also like to sub 4:15 it...
If anyone has Deena Kastor on speed dial....
How are you training for your marathons? Training for a half is easy enough, but the training plans I am researching have me doing weekly long runs of 20+ with tempos and other runs in the 8-14 ranges.
With working full time, two youngish kids, and it being just me (60% of the time), I can't imagine working all the training in. The hours in the day just don't make sense to me.
What does your marathon training schedule look like? I'd also like to sub 4:15 it...
If anyone has Deena Kastor on speed dial....
2
Replies
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Most plans are 18-20 weeks - typically you won’t hit 18-20 miles until peak (so around weeks 15/16)
I’m a fan of Matt Fitzgerald’s 80/20 plans0 -
A lot of first time marathoners use Hal Higdon's plans. I did his Intermediate 2 for my first and was very happy with the result. Pick a plan based on your weekly mileage at the time you start training. More miles will give you a better result, but you have to fit it into your schedule.0
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+1 this post. I can run a 20k at a good pace, but I simply can’t break through 20k at pace. (Not to mention an ultra!)
There is a guy named David Goggins who decided to run an ultramarathon without really training. He might have even placed. It is a pretty neat read.1 -
I do Hal Higdon's Marathon 3 (the one with lots of cross training), since fitting 3 runs+cross training into my schedule seems easier than running 5 times a week.
For my two weekday runs, I try to get out really early, so as to squeeze in the run before obligations start happening. When they get too long for that (no way I can get up 2 hours in advance to run 16km) I try to break them up into parts, ie. 8km in the morning and then run 10km home from work. I also switch my rest days around to fit with my schedule or bad weather, and don't sweat it too much when I have to miss a training session. Cross training is either cycling to work or a quick weight session at home.
As for weekend long runs, maybe you could find some activity that could occupy your kids for a few hours. My friends sometimes deposit their children at swimming, basketball etc. and go out for a run in nearby parks.
Hope that gives you some ideas.2 -
I've just completed London, I followed the beginners training plan loosely as it wanted 4 runs a week, but realistically I knew I could only fit 3 so that's what I did. Your most important run is the long run each week, the other two I mixed up between easy runs, hills and speed sessions and we're often only 30 / 45 mins long.
Some weeks I got an extra run in or a strength session but only what fitted between family and work1 -
It’s all time, first you need to work out when you can fit training in and then it’s about maximising the use of that time.
Make sure you’re ready, it’s no use having two hours spare and then spending 30mins getting your kit ready.
I’m planning on doing a marathon soon too and can currently only run once a week because of family and other commitments. So like you, I’m all about quality of training than quantity at the moment.1 -
A lot of 5am sessions.2
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Step 1 - Start a running session.
Step 2 - Increase your time, pace, distance, slowly.
Step 3 - Repeat until you are happy with pace, & time
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I used Hal Hidgon Novice 2 plan for my first and only marathon. I never want to run another one lol. But if I remember correctly the longest run during the week was 8 miles, then up to 20 on the weekend. I have to work at 8, so I got up at 4:30- had running shoes on and outside by 5 and was finished with 8 miles by 6:30. Most of the other runs were in the 3-6 mile range during the week which was more manageable for me. Once the long runs got over 15- thats when I was running close to or over 3 hours each Saturday morning and I felt like I had no life. But the feeling of crossing the finish line was so worth all the strain on my routine at home.2
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Commander_Keen wrote: »Step 1 - Start a running session.
Step 2 - Increase your time, pace, distance, slowly.
Step 3 - Repeat until you are happy with pace, & time
Rightttt... soooo...9 half marathons, a few dozen 8 and 10 ks, and 28218 5ks in, i got that part. It's the figuring out the timing, spacing of long runs on wknds with kids and longish runs before work that inwas asking advice on. But, kthanks, cool story bro.3 -
RunnerGirl238 wrote: »
Seems I'm missing something. You know your target distance, you have a sense of your pace... so you know how long the run will take you. If you know when you need to be done and back home (or at work or wherever else), and you know how long the run you take, then you know your start time, right? If you need to be done by 7, and are anticipating a 2.5hr run, then you start at 4:30, right?
Or is the issue more big-picture - balancing training volume/time with all the other commitments/responsibilities you have?1 -
RunnerGirl238 wrote: »
Seems I'm missing something. You know your target distance, you have a sense of your pace... so you know how long the run will take you. If you know when you need to be done and back home (or at work or wherever else), and you know how long the run you take, then you know your start time, right? If you need to be done by 7, and are anticipating a 2.5hr run, then you start at 4:30, right?
Or is the issue more big-picture - balancing training volume/time with all the other commitments/responsibilities you have?
Big picture.0 -
RunnerGirl238 wrote: »RunnerGirl238 wrote: »
Seems I'm missing something. You know your target distance, you have a sense of your pace... so you know how long the run will take you. If you know when you need to be done and back home (or at work or wherever else), and you know how long the run you take, then you know your start time, right? If you need to be done by 7, and are anticipating a 2.5hr run, then you start at 4:30, right?
Or is the issue more big-picture - balancing training volume/time with all the other commitments/responsibilities you have?
Big picture.
Ah, ok... my mistake. Not much I can do there. GL.0 -
You have to figure out how important running the marathon is to you at this time. It may be easier to wait until the kids are older so you can leave them alone for 2-3 hours. If not, you could join a gym that has childcare or get a TM so you can do your runs after dinner or very early in the morning. Or you find a friend or family member who can look after them while you do your long runs. Going into a race half trained because you are missing a lot of runs or doing a bare minimum will mean a less than optimum race. You might finish, but you'll probably decide "never again".1
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when i did my plan, my plan was mostly 6-8 over the week days 3-4x and 1 long run. i work 2 jobs. i can run in the afternoon now but i used to get up at 4am to do my training runs. then the rest of the day was friends, work, family
you have to ask yourself "how important is it"0 -
Work ... kids ... life ... These are the reasons i have decided to focus on my 10k times for this season with the odd half thrown in for fun.
I want to do a marathon...but i just can't give it the time it needs.0 -
i see a lot of comments by mothers in triathlon forums that express the same sentiments - i have x kids, its mostly me - you need to figure out if this is important to you
if yes, what is your expectation for your spouse/significant other supporting you?
could you afford a babysitter for a couple hours on a weekend to get your long run in? do you belong to a gym that has child care options so you could crank out some miles on a treadmill?
I work 40-60hrs per week (depending on the crisis of the day; and traffic because my round-trip commute is 96miles) and training for an ironman right now - i'm up at 4-5am most days, tuesdays i run before work; every other day, i would out after (swim/bike) - my weekend workouts are 2-4hrs depending on what i'm doing0 -
I remember a few years ago some articles from top trainers discussing how long runs over 3 hrs really aren't that helpful, and in fact could be harmful, to the training. By that point you should already have an idea if you need extra fuel at your pace and how that should work, and body is trained enough to keep going longer, just a matter of time.
That's to finish and make some personal bests for vast majority of runners - not talking age groupers going for money prizes. Though even there, 3hrs ends up being enough.
That being said, I personally think adding walking time to start/end and even middle of that long run so you are on your feet for the expected marathon time is useful to test out clothes being alright, and amount of hydration.
If that's not possible, or either of those, some years I've found a run for 2 hrs Sat eve and another 2 hrs Sun morning were still super beneficial for getting the body used to the effort of running tired.
3 hrs without fuel is long enough to discover if you did the pace slow enough to stretch the limited carb stores.
3 hrs with fuel is long enough to discover if you are spacing the fuel out long enough to work with your stomach.
I even recall one limited time year doing 3 runs within 24 hrs hitting 27 miles, 9 miles morning, evening, next morning.1 -
I remember a few years ago some articles from top trainers discussing how long runs over 3 hrs really aren't that helpful, and in fact could be harmful, to the training. By that point you should already have an idea if you need extra fuel at your pace and how that should work, and body is trained enough to keep going longer, just a matter of time.
That's to finish and make some personal bests for vast majority of runners - not talking age groupers going for money prizes. Though even there, 3hrs ends up being enough.
That being said, I personally think adding walking time to start/end and even middle of that long run so you are on your feet for the expected marathon time is useful to test out clothes being alright, and amount of hydration.
If that's not possible, or either of those, some years I've found a run for 2 hrs Sat eve and another 2 hrs Sun morning were still super beneficial for getting the body used to the effort of running tired.
3 hrs without fuel is long enough to discover if you did the pace slow enough to stretch the limited carb stores.
3 hrs with fuel is long enough to discover if you are spacing the fuel out long enough to work with your stomach.
I even recall one limited time year doing 3 runs within 24 hrs hitting 27 miles, 9 miles morning, evening, next morning.
while i don't recommend it, i did my last marathon (in a blistering 6:30) with only 1 8 mile run under my belt (but it was my 5th marathon and i had decent base fitness)0 -
I used Hal Higdon's Intermediate plan for the one marathon I've run. Next time (if there is a next time. I didn't really love my experience), I'll pick a different plan. I don't think Hal Higdon's plans give enough volume. My longest mid-week run was 8 miles and I just thing that's enough, at least for me.
As to how to train with all the other commitment of life, this is where your SO agrees to pick up your slack for a few weeks. I could not have done all the things I've managed to do without my husband doing more than his fair share of the work from time to time.1 -
I do Hal Higdon's Marathon 3 (the one with lots of cross training), since fitting 3 runs+cross training into my schedule seems easier than running 5 times a week.
For my two weekday runs, I try to get out really early, so as to squeeze in the run before obligations start happening. When they get too long for that (no way I can get up 2 hours in advance to run 16km) I try to break them up into parts, ie. 8km in the morning and then run 10km home from work. I also switch my rest days around to fit with my schedule or bad weather, and don't sweat it too much when I have to miss a training session. Cross training is either cycling to work or a quick weight session at home.
As for weekend long runs, maybe you could find some activity that could occupy your kids for a few hours. My friends sometimes deposit their children at swimming, basketball etc. and go out for a run in nearby parks.
Hope that gives you some ideas.
I came here to say this, Hal Higdon has worked for me thus far along with doing some speed drills for time.0 -
Thanks, y'all. So, what I'm hearing is Hal Higdon is the way to go.
Now, just have to get the courage. Going from 13.1 to 26.2 is quite the jump.1 -
I'm making that jump this year as well best of luck!0
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Check out the FIRST training plan (Furman Institute of Running and Scientific Training). It has three running workouts per week - speed, tempo and long run. It also encourages cross-training 40-45 minutes two other days of the week. It has 2 20-mile long runs over the course of the training cycle. They also have a great app you can download!
http://www2.furman.edu/sites/first/Documents/The%20Less%20is%20More%20Marathon%20Plan.pdf1 -
With the FIRST Plan, you don't actually save much time because you should be working as hard and long on your cross-training as you would if you were running and all your runs are supposed to be all out efforts. I've known people who did this who said it was harder than a higher mileage plan because every run was hard.0
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RunnerGirl238 wrote: »Thanks, y'all. So, what I'm hearing is Hal Higdon is the way to go.
Now, just have to get the courage. Going from 13.1 to 26.2 is quite the jump.
But the jump in training doesn't have to feel that bad at least, the thinking at the time is - this isn't so bad, I can do this.
NOT - I can't do 2 x as much.
Here's the research for that long run to avoid injury.
https://runnersconnect.net/coach-corner/are-you-putting-too-much-emphasis-on-the-long-run-as-part-of-your-marathon-training/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6295989
ETA - the reasoning on the long run still making improvements to the body is what several studies indicate doesn't really happen. After a certain point you've gained all you can in that regard.
Now, the mental game of it helping indeed could be a factor - but then comes the increased chances of injury from doing it too, and usually so close to the race you'd take yourself out of it.
That's why I like the foot-time recommendation I read years ago.1 -
RunnerGirl238 wrote: »Thanks, y'all. So, what I'm hearing is Hal Higdon is the way to go.
Now, just have to get the courage. Going from 13.1 to 26.2 is quite the jump.
But the jump in training doesn't have to feel that bad at least, the thinking at the time is - this isn't so bad, I can do this.
NOT - I can't do 2 x as much.
Here's the research for that long run to avoid injury.
https://runnersconnect.net/coach-corner/are-you-putting-too-much-emphasis-on-the-long-run-as-part-of-your-marathon-training/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6295989
i've never run more than about 18 miles recently for a marathon - my first one i did 20 miles; my next i did 16 and PR'd it by 30min (admittedly i'm still slow)0 -
My first marathon I did a 3x week beginners plan that only took me up to 16 miles, I would not recommend that, I was in an absolute world of pain and finished rather than enjoyed it.
This time I followed a modified intermediate/advanced plan, modified because I already had a base of regularly running 10-13miles.
I had 5 runs a week
long run : this started at the 13 miles and then I added 1mile every other week until I got up to 20 and last long run was 22miles (had a couple shorter run weeks as I had races scheduled). I did this run in all weathers, torrential rain, sleet, snow, 50mph gusts of wind and unseasonable heatwave. And while I hated the 22miler, I'm now so glad my PT made me go out and do it, it made the hitting the wall much easier to deal with.
Recovery run : day after long run, slow and often painful 3 miles
Sprints : this I did with my PT
Interval Run : 2 miles of intervals or fast run 3.1 fast
Easy 3-5 miles
total mileage was between 120 and 150/month
I started out from a very high activity and fitness level, but with this training I managed to take almost an hour off my marathon time, run 2 marathons 2 weeks apart, with only 1second difference in finishing time (despite running an extra mile in the second). Being reasonably happy all the way round, hitting the wall, but knowing I could push through, finishing with a smile on my face.
I also played with fuelling in the long runs and discovered that I really don't need to take on fuel during a marathon, only had half a nakd bar during each of them and that's only because I thought "should" eat something2 -
^^totally followed your other threads and think you are a rock star. I have a pretty solid base, so I think that sounds like a reasonable plan. Terrifies of only doing a 20 mile long run and tacking on 6 more miles on race day1
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