Marathon training: how do you do it?
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I used Hal Higdon's Intermediate plan for the one marathon I've run. Next time (if there is a next time. I didn't really love my experience), I'll pick a different plan. I don't think Hal Higdon's plans give enough volume. My longest mid-week run was 8 miles and I just thing that's enough, at least for me.
As to how to train with all the other commitment of life, this is where your SO agrees to pick up your slack for a few weeks. I could not have done all the things I've managed to do without my husband doing more than his fair share of the work from time to time.1 -
I do Hal Higdon's Marathon 3 (the one with lots of cross training), since fitting 3 runs+cross training into my schedule seems easier than running 5 times a week.
For my two weekday runs, I try to get out really early, so as to squeeze in the run before obligations start happening. When they get too long for that (no way I can get up 2 hours in advance to run 16km) I try to break them up into parts, ie. 8km in the morning and then run 10km home from work. I also switch my rest days around to fit with my schedule or bad weather, and don't sweat it too much when I have to miss a training session. Cross training is either cycling to work or a quick weight session at home.
As for weekend long runs, maybe you could find some activity that could occupy your kids for a few hours. My friends sometimes deposit their children at swimming, basketball etc. and go out for a run in nearby parks.
Hope that gives you some ideas.
I came here to say this, Hal Higdon has worked for me thus far along with doing some speed drills for time.0 -
Thanks, y'all. So, what I'm hearing is Hal Higdon is the way to go.
Now, just have to get the courage. Going from 13.1 to 26.2 is quite the jump.1 -
I'm making that jump this year as well best of luck!0
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Check out the FIRST training plan (Furman Institute of Running and Scientific Training). It has three running workouts per week - speed, tempo and long run. It also encourages cross-training 40-45 minutes two other days of the week. It has 2 20-mile long runs over the course of the training cycle. They also have a great app you can download!
http://www2.furman.edu/sites/first/Documents/The%20Less%20is%20More%20Marathon%20Plan.pdf1 -
With the FIRST Plan, you don't actually save much time because you should be working as hard and long on your cross-training as you would if you were running and all your runs are supposed to be all out efforts. I've known people who did this who said it was harder than a higher mileage plan because every run was hard.0
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RunnerGirl238 wrote: »Thanks, y'all. So, what I'm hearing is Hal Higdon is the way to go.
Now, just have to get the courage. Going from 13.1 to 26.2 is quite the jump.
But the jump in training doesn't have to feel that bad at least, the thinking at the time is - this isn't so bad, I can do this.
NOT - I can't do 2 x as much.
Here's the research for that long run to avoid injury.
https://runnersconnect.net/coach-corner/are-you-putting-too-much-emphasis-on-the-long-run-as-part-of-your-marathon-training/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6295989
ETA - the reasoning on the long run still making improvements to the body is what several studies indicate doesn't really happen. After a certain point you've gained all you can in that regard.
Now, the mental game of it helping indeed could be a factor - but then comes the increased chances of injury from doing it too, and usually so close to the race you'd take yourself out of it.
That's why I like the foot-time recommendation I read years ago.1 -
RunnerGirl238 wrote: »Thanks, y'all. So, what I'm hearing is Hal Higdon is the way to go.
Now, just have to get the courage. Going from 13.1 to 26.2 is quite the jump.
But the jump in training doesn't have to feel that bad at least, the thinking at the time is - this isn't so bad, I can do this.
NOT - I can't do 2 x as much.
Here's the research for that long run to avoid injury.
https://runnersconnect.net/coach-corner/are-you-putting-too-much-emphasis-on-the-long-run-as-part-of-your-marathon-training/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6295989
i've never run more than about 18 miles recently for a marathon - my first one i did 20 miles; my next i did 16 and PR'd it by 30min (admittedly i'm still slow)0 -
My first marathon I did a 3x week beginners plan that only took me up to 16 miles, I would not recommend that, I was in an absolute world of pain and finished rather than enjoyed it.
This time I followed a modified intermediate/advanced plan, modified because I already had a base of regularly running 10-13miles.
I had 5 runs a week
long run : this started at the 13 miles and then I added 1mile every other week until I got up to 20 and last long run was 22miles (had a couple shorter run weeks as I had races scheduled). I did this run in all weathers, torrential rain, sleet, snow, 50mph gusts of wind and unseasonable heatwave. And while I hated the 22miler, I'm now so glad my PT made me go out and do it, it made the hitting the wall much easier to deal with.
Recovery run : day after long run, slow and often painful 3 miles
Sprints : this I did with my PT
Interval Run : 2 miles of intervals or fast run 3.1 fast
Easy 3-5 miles
total mileage was between 120 and 150/month
I started out from a very high activity and fitness level, but with this training I managed to take almost an hour off my marathon time, run 2 marathons 2 weeks apart, with only 1second difference in finishing time (despite running an extra mile in the second). Being reasonably happy all the way round, hitting the wall, but knowing I could push through, finishing with a smile on my face.
I also played with fuelling in the long runs and discovered that I really don't need to take on fuel during a marathon, only had half a nakd bar during each of them and that's only because I thought "should" eat something2 -
^^totally followed your other threads and think you are a rock star. I have a pretty solid base, so I think that sounds like a reasonable plan. Terrifies of only doing a 20 mile long run and tacking on 6 more miles on race day1
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RunnerGirl238 wrote: »Bucket list goal is an ultra, but to get there I need to get a marathon or two under my belt. (I think I am 2 or 3 years from ultra status- at least- but man, oh, man does it sound fun!)
How are you training for your marathons? Training for a half is easy enough, but the training plans I am researching have me doing weekly long runs of 20+ with tempos and other runs in the 8-14 ranges.
With working full time, two youngish kids, and it being just me (60% of the time), I can't imagine working all the training in. The hours in the day just don't make sense to me.
What does your marathon training schedule look like? I'd also like to sub 4:15 it...
If anyone has Deena Kastor on speed dial....
Tbh I'd approach it in a similar way to ultra training; regular long back to backs. It gets you far more used to running fatigued and high volume without the stress.
So, possibly use a 50k plan to train for the marathon.0 -
MeanderingMammal wrote: »RunnerGirl238 wrote: »Bucket list goal is an ultra, but to get there I need to get a marathon or two under my belt. (I think I am 2 or 3 years from ultra status- at least- but man, oh, man does it sound fun!)
How are you training for your marathons? Training for a half is easy enough, but the training plans I am researching have me doing weekly long runs of 20+ with tempos and other runs in the 8-14 ranges.
With working full time, two youngish kids, and it being just me (60% of the time), I can't imagine working all the training in. The hours in the day just don't make sense to me.
What does your marathon training schedule look like? I'd also like to sub 4:15 it...
If anyone has Deena Kastor on speed dial....
Tbh I'd approach it in a similar way to ultra training; regular long back to backs. It gets you far more used to running fatigued and high volume without the stress.
So, possibly use a 50k plan to train for the marathon.
Good advice there.
At some point it's not about "can I run xyz" miles. It's "can I manage the unavoidable fatigue" and "do I know how to fuel" - and both of those can be learned without doing 25mi runs. IMO, the psychological benefits from really long runs are more beneficial than the physical benefits.1 -
RunnerGirl238 wrote: »^^totally followed your other threads and think you are a rock star. I have a pretty solid base, so I think that sounds like a reasonable plan. Terrifies of only doing a 20 mile long run and tacking on 6 more miles on race day
That was why my PT made me go out and do the 22. She wanted me to hit and push through the wall in training. Although if you're anything like me once you get to 20, you start to think of it as only 10k or 2 park runs and you start to live in the mile.0 -
I've done 7 marathons--all different temps & only 1 was flat. Best time I had was "loosely" following Hal Higdon's philosophy of breaks--didn't believe it could work but holy crap--it does!! LONG RUNS--I've had success with building up to 16-20-18-20 or 22. Inthe beginning I did all long runs at race pace--that ONLY works if you have no injuries OR anything that could lead to an injury; are EXTREMELY vigilant with weight training, nutrition, sleep and sleep!!!! When I added heavier weight training & added more hilly routes I was able to lower my longest long run to 20 miles & did very well. For me, adding increased stress to training that goes beyond the actual course while running a shorter distance can compensate. GOOD LUCK & tell us how you do
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I never could follow the hal higdon plan. I need rest between running days and the frequency was too much for me. I really like Jeff Galloway's plans. It does the longer distance every other week with a bunch of rest thrown in which can be taken as full rest or cross training. After completing my last half I saw that plan and realized it would be about another 10-16 weeks of training total but only 3-4 long runs, meaning if I just kept what I was doing in 3 months I could be marathon ready with only a bit more extra time and effort. This plan has you running a full marathon before race day, which some would argue is not needed. So really week 16-26 is the needed transition between having just completed a half and training for a marathon.
http://www.jeffgalloway.com/training/marathon-training/
I did not follow the timing on the weekday runs as I generally like to add a bit more time there, but the idea of alternating 10K distance with your increased mileage every other week up to 17 miles and every third week beyond that made a ton of sense for my body. I would assume a similar schedule would allow you to increase beyond 26 miles as well.1 -
I hear you. ❤️ I can’t figure it out either 🤷♀️ It will most likely be half’s for me for now, at least until the kids are older.0
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Check out the FIRST training plan (Furman Institute of Running and Scientific Training). It has three running workouts per week - speed, tempo and long run. It also encourages cross-training 40-45 minutes two other days of the week. It has 2 20-mile long runs over the course of the training cycle. They also have a great app you can download!
http://www2.furman.edu/sites/first/Documents/The%20Less%20is%20More%20Marathon%20Plan.pdf
I think some people like following set plans, but you can tinker to see what works for your life.
I did the 3 runs/week + cross-training (cycling for me) for 3 marathons, but I'm pretty slow and steady (~4:45). The most helpful thing: my mid-week tempo built up to half-marathon distance, and then my long runs got much easier.
I've known people who have used vacation time one morning a week for like a 3 month period (e.g. over the summer) in order to achieve some fitness goals (marathon, ironman).0 -
almostsuperpowered wrote: »Check out the FIRST training plan (Furman Institute of Running and Scientific Training). It has three running workouts per week - speed, tempo and long run. It also encourages cross-training 40-45 minutes two other days of the week. It has 2 20-mile long runs over the course of the training cycle. They also have a great app you can download!
http://www2.furman.edu/sites/first/Documents/The%20Less%20is%20More%20Marathon%20Plan.pdf
I think some people like following set plans, but you can tinker to see what works for your life.
I did the 3 runs/week + cross-training (cycling for me) for 3 marathons, but I'm pretty slow and steady (~4:45). The most helpful thing: my mid-week tempo built up to half-marathon distance, and then my long runs got much easier.
I've known people who have used vacation time one morning a week for like a 3 month period (e.g. over the summer) in order to achieve some fitness goals (marathon, ironman).
this is what i do as my training ramps up - right now i use Tuesday because i had class and used to stay late at work - so i would run in the am; come later in my training plan that may switch to thursday to get my long run in0 -
almostsuperpowered wrote: »Check out the FIRST training plan (Furman Institute of Running and Scientific Training). It has three running workouts per week - speed, tempo and long run. It also encourages cross-training 40-45 minutes two other days of the week. It has 2 20-mile long runs over the course of the training cycle. They also have a great app you can download!
http://www2.furman.edu/sites/first/Documents/The%20Less%20is%20More%20Marathon%20Plan.pdf
I think some people like following set plans, but you can tinker to see what works for your life.
I did the 3 runs/week + cross-training (cycling for me) for 3 marathons, but I'm pretty slow and steady (~4:45). The most helpful thing: my mid-week tempo built up to half-marathon distance, and then my long runs got much easier.
I've known people who have used vacation time one morning a week for like a 3 month period (e.g. over the summer) in order to achieve some fitness goals (marathon, ironman).
I am going to train over the summer. Benefit of being a teacher.1 -
I'm not sure it fits in with your goals, but I started with a 20-week beginner program (I had run about 10 HMs previously). I chose this plan because it was 4 runs through the week (including one tempo run) - none longer than 6 miles - and then the weekend long runs. It was pretty convenient.
Since this is your first marathon, it might make sense to go this route, see how the training goes and what your finish time is and adjust as you feel necessary for the next one.
Good luck and kick some ultra butt...!0
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