Questions about fatigue, too much exercise, small weight gain

chris89topher · June 2019

Hi!

A few months ago I stopped eating meat and started down the path of attempting to become a vegetarian. No particular reason, just basically to see if I could do it since I've always wanted to try it. So far I'm doing well and love it. I have replaced meat with the different types of Quorn products. They are so good! I've also been taking B-12 lozenges since I'm not getting it from meat.

I'll try to give the cliff notes for my questions because I know that no one likes reading long boring stories.

Exercise background:
- I exercise every morning at o'dark:30 on my Bowflex Max Trainer (cross between stair stepper and elliptical. It beats you within an inch of your life believe me) (doing this 3 years now)
-After that I walk 2 miles around the neighborhood (started this a few months ago)
-Sometimes I do a very short bike ride after that for the breeze
-Go to work by 7am, lol.
-At the end of the day I recently started taking a 3 mile bike ride around the block (3 weeks)

Lately I've felt a lot of fatigue during the day and not sure if I'm over exercising (hope not!), not eating enough (feel like I am), or if it's related to no meat. Again I'm taking B-12.
I've also gained close to 5 lbs all of a sudden over the past week or so which is why I'm wondering if it's exercise related. Water?

My stats are 37 male (two more weeks, ugh), 6'0 & 145 lbs. I've been eating around 1850 calories per day including exercise.

Yes I'm aware that is heading towards the lower end of the weight scale for my height. And yes I am indeed ever so slightly obsessed with my exercise routines, counting calories, etc. (which I will keep an eye on) so I'm hoping for an easy solution. Any suggestions would sure be appreciated.

ruffin04rhodes · June 2019

Way too much cardio IMO. I saw no weight training in your workout plan. I used to do a lot of cardio. I mean running and biking insane amounts each week. Lost a lot of weight at first but stalled out. Started lifting weights and it has made a tremendous difference. I now lift more (75% of my workout) than cardio. You need to build lean muscle and lose body fat. Start a weight lifting plan.

RelCanonical · June 2019

Sounds like water weight, an increase in exercise can do that. Meat replacements also have a lot of sodium, so that could do it too on the water retention front. For the fatigue, are you eating back your exercise calories? You might consider slowly increasing calories until you feel better. Have you cut out all animal products (including dairy) or just meat? Only vegans need to supplement with b12 - if you're still eating animal products of some sort, you should be getting enough b12. The supplements won't hurt, but they won't help your fatigue either. I'm thinking you might just need more calories to fuel your workouts.

apullum · June 2019

It sounds like you've increased your exercise a lot recently. You added a daily bike ride or two, and the two mile walk.

This can do a couple things. First, increasing your exercise can make you fatigued, especially if a) you aren't getting enough rest, b) you increase your exercise quickly instead of gradually, and/or c) you're undereating. So:
- how often are you taking a full rest day?
- are you trying to lose weight? You're already at a healthy BMI, so I assume you are either not trying to lose or have very little to lose.
- how are you measuring your calorie intake? If you aren't weighing your food, you may be estimating low.
- how are you calculating your exercise calories?

Second, increasing your exercise can lead to water weight gain that is part of the normal muscle repair process. Rapid weight gain is probably water weight unless you have reason to believe that you've dramatically exceeded your calorie goal in that time.

Rapid weight gain can also happen if you're a bit constipated. This sometimes happens to newbie vegetarians if they increase their fiber intake very quickly. So if that is the case for you, try cutting back on the fiber and only increasing it slowly.

B12 is probably not the problem for a new vegetarian. Assuming you were eating animal products and then suddenly stopped, your body should have enough B12 stored up for the next several years (https://www.merckmanuals.com/home/disorders-of-nutrition/vitamins/vitamin-b12). And, if you eat dairy, eggs, and/or fortified plant foods, then you're still getting some B12 (https://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/VitaminB12-HealthProfessional/). The supplement is probably not necessary at this point unless you have a medical condition related to B12.

If you have ever had problems with anemia/low iron, that could be something to consider with going veg. Again, after 1 month you are probably not low on iron unless you had an existing relevant medical condition. It is just something to keep an eye on if it's a concern for you, and I'll resist going off on a tangent about iron

tl;dr, I'd think about calorie intake and adequate rest when thinking about your fatigue, and the weight gain is likely water.

staticsplit · June 2019

I lose weight on 1850 and I do less exercise than you (and way less cardio. I do weights 2-3x a week, running 2x a week for 30 minutes, plus lots of walking, then yoga 1-2x a week). I'm 6 ft and 154. So I'd say you're probably tired because you're not eating enough--a conservative estimate is that you're burning at least 500 in exercise a day, so you're netting 1300odd which is below your BMR.

chris89topher · June 2019

RelCanonical wrote: »

Sounds like water weight, an increase in exercise can do that. Meat replacements also have a lot of sodium, so that could do it too on the water retention front. For the fatigue, are you eating back your exercise calories? You might consider slowly increasing calories until you feel better. Have you cut out all animal products (including dairy) or just meat? Only vegans need to supplement with b12 - if you're still eating animal products of some sort, you should be getting enough b12. The supplements won't hurt, but they won't help your fatigue either. I'm thinking you might just need more calories to fuel your workouts.

I generally eat 1/2 of the exercise calories back, and I do eat goat cheese daily. I had read that if you had a B-12 deficiency that could cause more energy but you're right, I've felt no increase.

chris89topher · June 2019

apullum wrote: »

It sounds like you've increased your exercise a lot recently. You added a daily bike ride or two, and the two mile walk.

This can do a couple things. First, increasing your exercise can make you fatigued, especially if a) you aren't getting enough rest, b) you increase your exercise quickly instead of gradually, and/or c) you're undereating. So:
- how often are you taking a full rest day?
- are you trying to lose weight? You're already at a healthy BMI, so I assume you are either not trying to lose or have very little to lose.
- how are you measuring your calorie intake? If you aren't weighing your food, you may be estimating low.
- how are you calculating your exercise calories?

Second, increasing your exercise can lead to water weight gain that is part of the normal muscle repair process. Rapid weight gain is probably water weight unless you have reason to believe that you've dramatically exceeded your calorie goal in that time.

Rapid weight gain can also happen if you're a bit constipated. This sometimes happens to newbie vegetarians if they increase their fiber intake very quickly. So if that is the case for you, try cutting back on the fiber and only increasing it slowly.

B12 is probably not the problem for a new vegetarian. Assuming you were eating animal products and then suddenly stopped, your body should have enough B12 stored up for the next several years (https://www.merckmanuals.com/home/disorders-of-nutrition/vitamins/vitamin-b12). And, if you eat dairy, eggs, and/or fortified plant foods, then you're still getting some B12 (https://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/VitaminB12-HealthProfessional/). The supplement is probably not necessary at this point unless you have a medical condition related to B12.

If you have ever had problems with anemia/low iron, that could be something to consider with going veg. Again, after 1 month you are probably not low on iron unless you had an existing relevant medical condition. It is just something to keep an eye on if it's a concern for you, and I'll resist going off on a tangent about iron

tl;dr, I'd think about calorie intake and adequate rest when thinking about your fatigue, and the weight gain is likely water.

I don't take rest days. Haven't skipped a day of my main exercise in over a year and it's only been a handful of days before that since I started 3 years ago. I obsess over the thought of skipping it because of I skip one I might skip more and more. I know that's irrational but it's tough to get past.

I measure all of my food intake. And I'm getting my exercise calorie totals from a chest strap. I eat 1/2 of them back. I'm not really trying to lose any more based on comments I get but gaining 5 is not the direction I want to go. It's weird to gain a few since none of my food has changed. In fact I eat almost the exact same thing every single day. I'm weird like that.

One thing I'm NOT is constipated lol. My fiber intake is very high according to MFP because of all the veggies and things I eat.

Thanks for the reply.

apullum · June 2019

chris89topher wrote: »

apullum wrote: »

It sounds like you've increased your exercise a lot recently. You added a daily bike ride or two, and the two mile walk.

This can do a couple things. First, increasing your exercise can make you fatigued, especially if a) you aren't getting enough rest, b) you increase your exercise quickly instead of gradually, and/or c) you're undereating. So:
- how often are you taking a full rest day?
- are you trying to lose weight? You're already at a healthy BMI, so I assume you are either not trying to lose or have very little to lose.
- how are you measuring your calorie intake? If you aren't weighing your food, you may be estimating low.
- how are you calculating your exercise calories?

Second, increasing your exercise can lead to water weight gain that is part of the normal muscle repair process. Rapid weight gain is probably water weight unless you have reason to believe that you've dramatically exceeded your calorie goal in that time.

Rapid weight gain can also happen if you're a bit constipated. This sometimes happens to newbie vegetarians if they increase their fiber intake very quickly. So if that is the case for you, try cutting back on the fiber and only increasing it slowly.

B12 is probably not the problem for a new vegetarian. Assuming you were eating animal products and then suddenly stopped, your body should have enough B12 stored up for the next several years (https://www.merckmanuals.com/home/disorders-of-nutrition/vitamins/vitamin-b12). And, if you eat dairy, eggs, and/or fortified plant foods, then you're still getting some B12 (https://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/VitaminB12-HealthProfessional/). The supplement is probably not necessary at this point unless you have a medical condition related to B12.

If you have ever had problems with anemia/low iron, that could be something to consider with going veg. Again, after 1 month you are probably not low on iron unless you had an existing relevant medical condition. It is just something to keep an eye on if it's a concern for you, and I'll resist going off on a tangent about iron

tl;dr, I'd think about calorie intake and adequate rest when thinking about your fatigue, and the weight gain is likely water.

I don't take rest days. Haven't skipped a day of my main exercise in over a year and it's only been a handful of days before that since I started 3 years ago. I obsess over the thought of skipping it because of I skip one I might skip more and more. I know that's irrational but it's tough to get past.

I measure all of my food intake. And I'm getting my exercise calorie totals from a chest strap. I eat 1/2 of them back. I'm not really trying to lose any more based on comments I get but gaining 5 is not the direction I want to go. It's weird to gain a few since none of my food has changed. In fact I eat almost the exact same thing every single day. I'm weird like that.

One thing I'm NOT is constipated lol. My fiber intake is very high according to MFP because of all the veggies and things I eat.

Thanks for the reply.

First, REST. Your body needs rest. Good training plans incorporate intentional rest. You build muscle while at rest. You haven't had a rest day at all in over a year?? And you added more exercise? No wonder you're fatigued! You need to trust yourself that you will not just stop exercising. After all, you can't just keep going and going forever without giving your body time to recover. That is a sure route to injury.

Second, if you're using an HRM yet only eating half your exercise calories, then you could very well be undereating. Your calorie intake sounds pretty low for someone with your stats. You're using a device that helps you get a more accurate picture of your cardio calorie burn, so you can feel confident in eating more of those calories back. Set your MFP calorie goal to maintenance, and eat the number of calories it gives you plus your exercise calories.

L1zardQueen · June 2019

Rest days are how we get better. Do them.

aokoye · June 2019

chris89topher wrote: »

apullum wrote: »

It sounds like you've increased your exercise a lot recently. You added a daily bike ride or two, and the two mile walk.

This can do a couple things. First, increasing your exercise can make you fatigued, especially if a) you aren't getting enough rest, b) you increase your exercise quickly instead of gradually, and/or c) you're undereating. So:
- how often are you taking a full rest day?
- are you trying to lose weight? You're already at a healthy BMI, so I assume you are either not trying to lose or have very little to lose.
- how are you measuring your calorie intake? If you aren't weighing your food, you may be estimating low.
- how are you calculating your exercise calories?

Second, increasing your exercise can lead to water weight gain that is part of the normal muscle repair process. Rapid weight gain is probably water weight unless you have reason to believe that you've dramatically exceeded your calorie goal in that time.

Rapid weight gain can also happen if you're a bit constipated. This sometimes happens to newbie vegetarians if they increase their fiber intake very quickly. So if that is the case for you, try cutting back on the fiber and only increasing it slowly.

B12 is probably not the problem for a new vegetarian. Assuming you were eating animal products and then suddenly stopped, your body should have enough B12 stored up for the next several years (https://www.merckmanuals.com/home/disorders-of-nutrition/vitamins/vitamin-b12). And, if you eat dairy, eggs, and/or fortified plant foods, then you're still getting some B12 (https://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/VitaminB12-HealthProfessional/). The supplement is probably not necessary at this point unless you have a medical condition related to B12.

If you have ever had problems with anemia/low iron, that could be something to consider with going veg. Again, after 1 month you are probably not low on iron unless you had an existing relevant medical condition. It is just something to keep an eye on if it's a concern for you, and I'll resist going off on a tangent about iron

tl;dr, I'd think about calorie intake and adequate rest when thinking about your fatigue, and the weight gain is likely water.

I don't take rest days. Haven't skipped a day of my main exercise in over a year and it's only been a handful of days before that since I started 3 years ago. I obsess over the thought of skipping it because of I skip one I might skip more and more. I know that's irrational but it's tough to get past.

I measure all of my food intake. And I'm getting my exercise calorie totals from a chest strap. I eat 1/2 of them back. I'm not really trying to lose any more based on comments I get but gaining 5 is not the direction I want to go. It's weird to gain a few since none of my food has changed. In fact I eat almost the exact same thing every single day. I'm weird like that.

One thing I'm NOT is constipated lol. My fiber intake is very high according to MFP because of all the veggies and things I eat.

Thanks for the reply.

Your body is very likely telling you to take a rest day. It is far from the end of the world and you need to learn that you're not actually going to be able to exercise every single day. That you've managed to do that for three years tells me that you either have an very flexible schedule, a very static schedule (that would allow for you to not having something conflict with your exercising at X o'clock every day for 1,095 days), and/or are exercising through illness and potentially injury (which isn't healthy).

I get that irrational fears are tough to get passed (been there, done that, am constantly working on various fears, among other things), but you need to really work on getting past this one.

lynn_glenmont · June 2019

You're already at the low end of a healthy BMI for your height, and with all that exercise, 1845 kcal seems like undereating to me. I'm six inches shorter than you, 20 years older, and a woman, and I would lose a pound a week without intentional exercise at 1845 (OK, I do outweigh you). If I were doing as much cardio as you, I would be gnawing somebody's arm off at 1845.

I'm wondering if you could have some kind of low-grade infection you haven't noticed, which could account for both water retention (weight gain) as your body tries to deal with it and the fatigue.

But you could try eating a little more, and taking some rest days (which could help even if the problem is an infection, not undereating, if it gives your body the energy and rest it needs for your immune system to work).

AnnPT77 · June 2019

Just chiming in to add to the chorus:

* Take rest days, on a planned basis. It's not skipping exercise, it's part of a sensible fitness plan. Without adequate rest, your fitness doesn't properly improve. It's like how you have to pull back a bowstring to shoot an arrow forward: Not "going backwards", but a vital part of moving forward.

* 1845 including exercise sounds too low. I lose slowly (on the order of half a pound a week) on 1850 plus all exercise calories as a 63-year-old woman, 5'5", mid-130s pounds, quite sedentary outside of intentional exercise (retired, sedentary hobbies), and even hypothyroid. I admit I tend to be a mysteriously good li'l ol' calorie burner, but at your age and size, you should be able to eat much more.

* At 145 and 6'0", you're already quite thin. I suspect your health and appearance would benefit from eating more, and adding some strength training to your routine. There are bodyweight programs you can do, if you don't have weights or gym access. You can learn more about that in this thread:

http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10332083/which-lifting-program-is-the-best-for-you/p1

A couple of questions:

* You mention getting up very early. What time are you getting to bed, and how is your sleep quality? (Inadequate sleep is the classic reason for fatigue, after all.)
* Have you had any medical tests for hypothyroidism, nutritional deficiencies, etc.? Lots of things can contribute to fatigue, and nutritional issues are among them.

I've been vegetarian for 45 years now. While (anecdotally, based on some friends' experiences), it doesn't work out nutritionally or energetically for some people, if vegetarianism's the right way of eating for you, it shouldn't be a cause of fatigue. I feel fine, as long as I get enough sleep, decent overall nutrition, and take a sensible number of rest days (one weekly, at least; more if I feel overfatigued or have signs of overtraining).

P.S. I don't think you're getting too much cardio, necessarily. You may've added too much all in one jump.

Best wishes!

mgodniak2106 · June 2019

I'm not very experienced in the subject of fitness, weight loss or gain for that matter, but even I know you have to take a rest day! I myself have quite an active job and I exercise 5-6times a week (calisthenics, martial arts, obstacle course training) aiming for 6, but I have days where I feel completely deflated and take extra days off from training. Even though I feel guilty, my body is my temple and I know that if I don't look after it and I don't rest, it will come back to bite me in the backend. If I get injured or sick because my immune system has crashed I will lose a lot more days of training than one day per week. Think about it!

TrishSeren · June 2019

chris89topher wrote: »

apullum wrote: »

It sounds like you've increased your exercise a lot recently. You added a daily bike ride or two, and the two mile walk.

This can do a couple things. First, increasing your exercise can make you fatigued, especially if a) you aren't getting enough rest, b) you increase your exercise quickly instead of gradually, and/or c) you're undereating. So:
- how often are you taking a full rest day?
- are you trying to lose weight? You're already at a healthy BMI, so I assume you are either not trying to lose or have very little to lose.
- how are you measuring your calorie intake? If you aren't weighing your food, you may be estimating low.
- how are you calculating your exercise calories?

Second, increasing your exercise can lead to water weight gain that is part of the normal muscle repair process. Rapid weight gain is probably water weight unless you have reason to believe that you've dramatically exceeded your calorie goal in that time.

Rapid weight gain can also happen if you're a bit constipated. This sometimes happens to newbie vegetarians if they increase their fiber intake very quickly. So if that is the case for you, try cutting back on the fiber and only increasing it slowly.

B12 is probably not the problem for a new vegetarian. Assuming you were eating animal products and then suddenly stopped, your body should have enough B12 stored up for the next several years (https://www.merckmanuals.com/home/disorders-of-nutrition/vitamins/vitamin-b12). And, if you eat dairy, eggs, and/or fortified plant foods, then you're still getting some B12 (https://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/VitaminB12-HealthProfessional/). The supplement is probably not necessary at this point unless you have a medical condition related to B12.

If you have ever had problems with anemia/low iron, that could be something to consider with going veg. Again, after 1 month you are probably not low on iron unless you had an existing relevant medical condition. It is just something to keep an eye on if it's a concern for you, and I'll resist going off on a tangent about iron

tl;dr, I'd think about calorie intake and adequate rest when thinking about your fatigue, and the weight gain is likely water.

I don't take rest days. Haven't skipped a day of my main exercise in over a year and it's only been a handful of days before that since I started 3 years ago. I obsess over the thought of skipping it because of I skip one I might skip more and more. I know that's irrational but it's tough to get past.

I measure all of my food intake. And I'm getting my exercise calorie totals from a chest strap. I eat 1/2 of them back. I'm not really trying to lose any more based on comments I get but gaining 5 is not the direction I want to go. It's weird to gain a few since none of my food has changed. In fact I eat almost the exact same thing every single day. I'm weird like that.

One thing I'm NOT is constipated lol. My fiber intake is very high according to MFP because of all the veggies and things I eat.

Thanks for the reply.

Rest days are one of the most important factors with muscle growth. That's when the healing and the growing happens. Even Olympic athletes have 1-2 a week.

chris89topher · July 2019

UPDATE:

Well, here's a quick update for everyone. It seems that something has caught up to me because not only have I gained about 6 lbs + or - a few over the past few weeks, this weekend my ankles and calves were very swollen. I could probably write my name in the indentations. They've reduced a little today thankfully, but my belly is still poking out a little bit and I noticed my face must be a little puffy because I lost my cheek bones. And my clothes feel snug today! Needless to say I'm not a happy camper.

As everyone has already mentioned, I can only think of two recent changes that may have caused this. My daily Max Trainer exercise hasn't changed in several years, but I added morning walks (2 miles) about 6 months ago and then daily bike rides (3-4 miles) about a month or so ago. Maybe the bike rides are giving me too much sun, as I do that part in the evening heat of the day after work?

So does this sound like over-exercise? For the next few days or so I'm only going to continue my Max Trainer and cut out the walks and bike rides to see if that reverses things.

tinkerbellang83 · July 2019

chris89topher wrote: »

UPDATE:

Well, here's a quick update for everyone. It seems that something has caught up to me because not only have I gained about 6 lbs + or - a few over the past few weeks, this weekend my ankles and calves were very swollen. I could probably write my name in the indentations. They've reduced a little today thankfully, but my belly is still poking out a little bit and I noticed my face must be a little puffy because I lost my cheek bones. And my clothes feel snug today! Needless to say I'm not a happy camper.

As everyone has already mentioned, I can only think of two recent changes that may have caused this. My daily Max Trainer exercise hasn't changed in several years, but I added morning walks (2 miles) about 6 months ago and then daily bike rides (3-4 miles) about a month or so ago. Maybe the bike rides are giving me too much sun, as I do that part in the evening heat of the day after work?

So does this sound like over-exercise? For the next few days or so I'm only going to continue my Max Trainer and cut out the walks and bike rides to see if that reverses things.

Did you take onboard any of the comments about taking rest days?

blobby10 · July 2019

You have serious enough swelling of your ankles and calves that you can write in the indentations, your face is puffy and your clothes feel tight. GET TO A DOCTOR!!! With that amount of swelling you could be seriously ill.

johnwhitent · July 2019

As others have said, you definitely need to incorporate regular rest days as part of your plan, at least one day a week. Rest is when your body takes advantage of the exercise you have done to build muscle and make other adaptations. No rest means your not getting the full benefit of all the training you are doing. At your weight, you should make your plan to optimize health and fitness, and let weight sort itself out. Think like an athlete, not a dieter! This one concept revolutionized my own approach to health and fitness. A relaxed pace walk is fine to do on a rest day, as a form of active rest, but certainly take a break from the Max Trainer. If your vegetarian diet is whole food based and varied, it should provide all the energy you need, many world class athletes are vegetarian. But on your weekly rest day(s) I would highly recommend eating at full TDEE, preferably slightly above, to give your body a break both from exercise and the calorie deficit. Your body will thank you!

PS: I have been at this over ten years, and I too am at the lower end of the BMI healthy weight range, and I'm somewhat obsessed with all the metrics involving diet and exercise. In itself, that's all ok, but one can certainly go too far with it. But you can use the obsession to layout a health and fitness plan rather than a diet plan and this will mean adding rest, introducing some variety to the the Max Trainer, viewing food as an energy source, and other healthy changes to your current plan. Exercise, rest, logging - balance in all things is crucial to long term success!

martaindale · July 2019

I am a doctor, which I rarely mention on the internet, so I obviously am concerned enough about you to mention it in hopes that you will listen.
If you have new edema so significant that it is pitting and staying in place when you press into and your face looks swollen, you are very fluid overloaded. I would strongly urge you to stop worrying about the scale at this point and visit your doctor. There are many causes for fluid overload including underlying cardiac, renal, or liver problems several of which can cause significant long-term problems if left untreated. Certainly, it may be something simple and non life-threatening, but on the off chance that it isn’t you don’t want to delay treatment any longer than necessary.
Take a day off from the stress your exercise routine is placing on your body. Get a doctor’s appointment and sort your health out. I hope that you recover quickly!

promisesstandin · July 2019

I HATE going to a western medicine doctor - but I will go when I need labs drawn. Please go get checked. You don't have to take an antibiotic but your weight gain, swelling and fatigue sounds like an indiction of infection. After that trip, which should be priority at this point, please add rest to your regimen. That's my next goal as well.

johnwhitent · July 2019

I must have been writing my previous response when you posted about the swelling and taking a break from walking and the bike, but continuing the Max Trainer. With the swelling and fatigue I would get to a doctor asap. I would cease all activity until you can see a doctor. Better safe than sorry! After getting a doctor's clearance to exercise, definitely incorporate some cross training for the Max Trainer. It sounds like you're doing it 365 days a year. I hope not! No pro athlete trains intensely at their specialty 365 days a year. Pro cyclist often do cross country skiing in the winter, many runners do the same, or maybe mountain biking. Whatever you do, mix it up and get off of that daily Bowflex routine! It can be your main exercise, but don't do it every single day. Incorporate some form of cross training, taking a regular weekly break from the Max Trainer.

Questions about fatigue, too much exercise, small weight gain

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