Only 1200 calories?

deannalfisher · August 2019

tinkerbellang83 wrote: »

kimondo666 wrote: »

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1550413119302487 here is the link to the study. Danp. Ofc in terms of determined weight losing person it does not matter, but untrained person at first time loss atempt, quite the contrary.

Small study and bearing in mind the following: "During each diet phase, the subjects were presented with three daily meals and were instructed to consume as much or as little as desired. Up to 60 min was allotted to consume each meal." I am not sure that conclusively proves anything.

My issue with studies like this is that it doesn't address other variables - sleep, exercise etc

there is research (presented in Why We Sleep) that says people who sleep less tend to blindly eat more food, in general that is ultraprocessed - it was a similar scenario - put a group of sleep deprived folks in a room with ultra-processed vs. whole food options and they tended to graviate towards the ultra-processed. The same could be said for exercising - i know after i have a heavy workout i crave nothing more than a donut or something sugary - so if presented that vs. whole food - i'd probably go with the donut

kimondo666 · August 2019

tinkerbellang83 wrote: »

Small study and bearing in mind the following: "During each diet phase, the subjects were presented with three daily meals and were instructed to consume as much or as little as desired. Up to 60 min was allotted to consume each meal." I am not sure that conclusively proves anything.

That proves that people want to eat more when they consume ultra processed food, contrary to eating less on low-processed. So eating less processed help to eat less. Ofc you can eat ultra processed and still eat at deficit if you weight it and log like in MFP. It just take willpower and determination.

"Why is it assumed that people can’t exhibit control over these things and just eat an appropriate portion without going to excess?" I did not claim that, just that for common people it far easier to eat unprocessed and lose weight than to eat ultraprocessed and do the same.

tinkerbellang83 · August 2019

kimondo666 wrote: »

tinkerbellang83 wrote: »

Small study and bearing in mind the following: "During each diet phase, the subjects were presented with three daily meals and were instructed to consume as much or as little as desired. Up to 60 min was allotted to consume each meal." I am not sure that conclusively proves anything.

That proves that people want to eat more when they consume ultra processed food, contrary to eating less on low-processed. So eating less processed help to eat less. Ofc you can eat ultra processed and still eat at deficit if you weight it and log like in MFP. It just take willpower and determination.

"Why is it assumed that people can’t exhibit control over these things and just eat an appropriate portion without going to excess?" I did not claim that, just that for common people it far easier to eat unprocessed and lose weight than to eat ultraprocessed and do the same.

That doesn't prove anything of the sort, all it proves is that there was not any real control over the calorie intake of the study.

I found it quite easy to lose weight eating a mixture of both, I don't think that's unusual.

kimondo666 · August 2019

for someone that is good/average at controlling oneself, no. But for someone more susceptible this could be a problem. Someone without good habits about eating. Disregarding mindset which can boost your ability to control. I am talking about people that starts dieting, for them when you say them that there is no healthy food, they can junk food - cause if there is no difference then why bother to eat whole unprocessed ones. I think we are talking oranges and apples here. I dont disregard CICO here. It works. Some food just can be more helpful.

estherdragonbat · August 2019

Honestly, you learn relatively soon which foods help you feel fuller longer. I'd struggle to meet my protein and iron more if it weren't for veggie dogs and other vegetarian meat analogs. Not to say I don't make plenty of stuff from scratch or semi-scratch, but processed foods aren't the same as junk foods aren't the same as unhealthy foods aren't the same as food devoid of nutrients.

A varied diet that includes nutrient dense foods and indulgences has been key for me. Obviously the indulgences aren't my dietary staples, but I find room for them. Made fudge last week (88 calories for a 19g square). Made angel food cake with peach-and-plum salsa this week (150 calories for 1/12th of it). It works.

WinoGelato · August 2019

kimondo666 wrote: »

for someone that is good/average at controlling oneself, no. But for someone more susceptible this could be a problem. Someone without good habits about eating. Disregarding mindset which can boost your ability to control. I am talking about people that starts dieting, for them when you say them that there is no healthy food, they can junk food - cause if there is no difference then why bother to eat whole unprocessed ones. I think we are talking oranges and apples here. I dont disregard CICO here. It works. Some food just can be more helpful.

So are you suggesting that if a person had trouble moderating their intake, they should cut out all ultra processed foods?

Sure, some people find it difficult to moderate certain trigger foods and for them total abstinence from those foods may be a viable solution but why the extreme approach? Do you think a person can’t be healthy and satiated if this would be a typical day?

Breakfast: Coffee with flavored creamer, Greek yogurt, berries and packaged granola
Lunch: frozen meal (sometimes with an added serving of protein or veggies but also both from convenience prepackaged source)
Snack: baby carrots and hummus (both processed and purchased convenient foods)
Dinner: sautéed shrimp, bag of frozen veggies, instant rice
Dessert: Small serving of ice cream

This day is almost all “processed” foods and a typical day of food for me when I’m on a busy schedule yet I don’t feel undesirable control to keep eating, nor do I feel this is a non-nutritious day.

You’re concerned about telling people there’s no difference between eating Whole Foods and junk foods (which for the record no one is saying)but there is such a wide spectrum it’s really unhelpful, in my opinion to use such generalizations as “processed = bad” and “whole = good”. For as many people as you’re concerned will eat a diet of entirely junk food if you tell them it’s ok to still include these foods, if you tell people that those foods are automatically “bad”, they may decide to never even attempt to lose weight and take on the healthier lifestyle if they believe they will never eat chips, fast food, pizza or ice cream again.

SueSueDio · August 2019

WinoGelato wrote: »

You’re concerned about telling people there’s no difference between eating Whole Foods and junk foods (which for the record no one is saying)but there is such a wide spectrum it’s really unhelpful, in my opinion to use such generalizations as “processed = bad” and “whole = good”. For as many people as you’re concerned will eat a diet of entirely junk food if you tell them it’s ok to still include these foods, if you tell people that those foods are automatically “bad”, they may decide to never even attempt to lose weight and take on the healthier lifestyle if they believe they will never eat chips, fast food, pizza or ice cream again.

This would have been me, had I not learned that I could still have chocolate, pizza and other foods I loved AND lose weight.

I do eat more healthily than I used to, as a result of realising how many calories are in certain foods - some of those I rarely eat now because they're not worth the calories to me any more, some I still have but in much smaller portions. I've also learned to cook more meals from scratch and I don't rely on convenience foods as much as I used to, but I do still use many "processed" food items. I don't feel that my overall diet is unhealthy because of it.

Whenever a processed food makes me feel like I want more of it, it's almost always something like cake or cookies because I have a sweet tooth - I never crave an extra portion of baked beans or additional fish sticks! But I've learned to moderate my sweet treats for the most part, so that I can still enjoy them without piling on the pounds.

(Also, I feel that it's worth pointing out (if no one already did so) that it's entirely possible to become fat eating only "whole" foods, if you eat too much of them, just as it is when eating too much fast food.)

kimondo666 · August 2019

indeed i have oversimplified stuff, i have no problem with eating processed myself(i get a mix of both) as i can regulate that into calorie goal. Just there is clear difference between those food. Ya cant blindside yourself, just be aware of it. Ofc there is difference between processed and ultra-processed. Like in the life, being on the end spectrum of things can be tricky. Getting wholefoods and stuffing yourself leading to gain as you are saying or being bored of food after wholefood. Other spectrum stuffing yourself with pizza, chips and others. Just be aware.

Only 1200 calories?

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