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finding difficult to Over head press

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  • wiigelecwiigelec Member Posts: 481 Member Member Posts: 481 Member
    What happens when you try and press 5 x 5 x 7.5?
  • SilentpadnaSilentpadna Member Posts: 1,305 Member Member Posts: 1,305 Member
    Chieflrg wrote: »
    When we are talking long term training over a life time (which is very important to note), I think it's reasonable to think a few weeks away is close to the end of a LP novice program. A LP novice template really isn't that important compared to any template that have auto regulation that will help with recovery and lowering injury risk. I seriously don't care what program a person uses to start as long as there is adherence and will progress to more advanced programming sooner than later.

    ….

    Is two weeks really that important when we are talking a life time of training? I would hazard not in the least.



    Good stuff.

    I remember one of the things that inspired me as an older lifter (I had not ever done a progressive overload - or any other structured program), was an article written by Jonathon Sullivan when he talked about the correlation between lack of strength and mortality. In it, he stated more than once "If I could get someone under a bar I could change their life". Of course it doesn't really have to be a barbell, but it's probably the best place to start because of its simplicity in dosing.

    Anyway, the bigger picture is that once a person realizes and puts to use the benefits of strength training, I cannot imagine how it would not lead to a lifetime of doing so.
    edited October 2019
  • SilentpadnaSilentpadna Member Posts: 1,305 Member Member Posts: 1,305 Member
    Chieflrg wrote: »
    ...
    I have the experience of running SL myself after recovering from cancer treatments/surgeries of nearly one year and walking with a cane for a few years prior due to my progressive joint disease. It was a good choice for me because I had decades of training experience and I could barely stand without assistance at the time. I couldn't even hold a cup of coffee without fear of dropping it so I needed to start light anyway. It can be a good choice for those who are untrained if they can adhere and move on when it's time.


    BTW, very inspiring. Thanks for sharing this.
  • puffbratpuffbrat Member Posts: 2,804 Member Member Posts: 2,804 Member
    jonmarrow wrote: »
    wiigelec wrote: »
    jonmarrow wrote: »
    which I am doing. I just think this program is a bit too basic for me. I mean I am not at the beginner stage or just starting to hit. I think I can do more than 1 rep of deadlift in a set. I need a modified program.
    This strong lift program is like for beginners who probably have never hit the gym. I have been hitting the gym for over 10 years.

    Would you be so kind as to provide your training log for the entire time you have been running strong lifts 5x5?

    For example:
    W1
    D1
    Squat 5 x 5 x 115
    Bench 5 x 5 x 95
    Deadlift 1 x 5 x 135

    D2
    Squat 5 x 5 x 120
    Press 5 x 5 x 55
    Row 5 x 5 x 105

    D3
    Squat 5 x 5 x 125
    Bench 5 x 5 x 100
    Deadlift 1 x 5 x 145

    W2
    D1
    Squat 5 x 5 x 130
    Press 5 x 5 x 60
    Row 1 x 5 x 110

    D2
    Squat 5 x 5 x 135
    Bench 5 x 5 x 105
    Deadlift 1 x 5 x 155

    D3
    Squat 5 x 5 x 140
    Press 5 x 5 x 65
    Row 1 x 5 x 115

    etc...


    W1
    D1
    Squat 5 x 5 x 0
    Bench 5 x 5 x 0
    Deadlift 1 x 5 x 0

    D2
    Squat 5 x 5 x 2.5
    Press 5 x 5 x 2.5
    Row 5 x 5 x 2.5

    D3
    Squat 5 x 5 x 5
    Bench 5 x 5 x 2.5
    Deadlift 1 x 5 x 5
    .
    .
    .
    .
    I increase each weight by 2.5 except for DL, I increase it by 5

    As of week 4, I am at:
    W4

    D1
    Squat 5 x 5 x 25
    Press 5 x 5 x 5
    Row 1 x 5 x 17.5

    D2
    Squat 5 x 5 x 27.5
    Bench 5 x 5 x 15
    Deadlift 1 x 5 x 40

    Please tell me when I will start to see solid formation of my forearms? I am noticing sleep benefits and strength benefits but my shape isn't really changing that much.




    Just a note - it is standard to include the weight of the bar since you are lifting that as well. So, in your week one weights, you lifted 45 not 0.

    For the bolded, I hope you mean you add 2.5 to each side of the barbell, meaning increase by 5lbs from the previous lift? You are adding weight equally to both sides of the bar, correct?
  • ChieflrgChieflrg Member Posts: 8,832 Member Member Posts: 8,832 Member
    erickirb wrote: »
    Chieflrg wrote: »
    ceiswyn wrote: »
    Chieflrg wrote: »
    SL5×5 is a strength template for beginners that should be run only for a few months for optimal results until you begin to stall.

    It's not a hypertrophy trmplate so I wouldn't except your biceps to grow noticeably.

    It's also a LP template. Which will not add sufficient volume enough to progress forever.

    Because the template doesn't allow for added volume, I would highly recommend moving onto more advanced programming now you are near end of your novice phase.

    The OP is nowhere near the end of his novice phase. He has been doing stronglifts for two weeks. And spent part of that injured due to being too impatient to read or watch anything about technique.

    When we are talking long term training over a life time(which is very important to note), I think it's reasonable to think a few weeks away is close to the end of a LP novice program. A LP novice template really isn't that important compared to any template that have auto regulation that will help with recovery and lowering injury risk. I seriously don't care what program a person uses to start as long as there is adherence and will progress to more advanced programming sooner than later.

    I hear you about injuries which is why I'm suggesting any template that includes auto regulation and not one that only increase more intensity every session as the sole means to load progressively. There are way better ways to increase the load than just intensity. Injuries come from poor load management.
    Chieflrg wrote: »
    SL5×5 is a strength template for beginners that should be run only for a few months for optimal results until you begin to stall.

    It's not a hypertrophy trmplate so I wouldn't except your biceps to grow noticeably.

    It's also a LP template. Which will not add sufficient volume enough to progress forever.

    Because the template doesn't allow for added volume, I would highly recommend moving onto more advanced programming now you are near end of your novice phase.


    The first three statements are agreeable - for the most part. However, as @ceiswyn points out, the OP has not built any real strength foundation. SL 5x5 or SS 3x5 will do that - and will have at least a component of hypertrophy, though not optimal for that. Not sure building hypertrophy early on is as effective as doing so after a strength foundation, but I admit that is speculative on my part.

    Personally I would prefer a strength program that has a hybrid component (i.e. one or two basic high weight low rep movements followed by one or two low weight high rep sets where you get a volume component as well).

    But the beauty of a novice LP program is its simplicity, which is what I believe the OP needs.

    Whatever program he uses, as with all effective programs is that has to use progressive overload. That's the part that seems to be missing....

    Agree entirely, there are many ways to progressive overload as there are many programs that do so that include auto regulation. I have no problem if someone chooses to run a LP to begin training or if they took a hiatus. I have a problem if a lifter stalls on it and continue to grind, deloads several times to only get back to the same stall weight, or they can't adhere to it and starting making modifications that don't have auto regulation to set up load management and long term success. Is two weeks really that important when we are talking a life time of training? I would hazard not in the least.

    Chiefrlg I agree stronglifts is not optimal for hypertrophy and I’m guessing you would recommend one of barbell medicines templates for him. But the beauty of stronglifts is its simplicity. I would worry about over complicating things for him given all his queries and confusion around the basics.

    I would recommend any template that has auto regulation with load management, not exclusive to Barbellmedicine by any means. There are many, many suitable templates that would do so. I highly advice any template that is intelligently written that has load management especially to help reduce injury risk.

    I have the experience of running SL myself after recovering from cancer treatments/surgeries of nearly one year and walking with a cane for a few years prior due to my progressive joint disease. It was a good choice for me because I had decades of training experience and I could barely stand without assistance at the time. I couldn't even hold a cup of coffee without fear of dropping it so I needed to start light anyway. It can be a good choice for those who are untrained if they can adhere and move on when it's time.

    SL can be useful and efficient for a short time for those untrained if they can adhere to it and move on when it's time. There certainly is better templates that are easy to understand if one puts forth the same effort when SL is no longer useful and efficient.


    what do you mean a "its reasonable to think a few weeks away is close to the end of a LP novice program"? he has only been doing it for a month, with a couple weeks reduced due to injury. how is doing a program 3 of 4 weeks near they end? He just started, nowhere near the end

    Don't confuse him any more than he already is. He should stick with this program, and deload if needed, for 3-9 months, then take your advice on programming. right now he has a very limited strength base and should be able to increase weight (except for maybe OH press) as the program is written if willing to push himself.

    Just for the record nobody knows how long a LP will last until stalling. Its different for each person.

    I currently train one person that stalled deadlifting on SS at 230 pounds just after seven weeks. I've worked with him since. He currently deadlifts 620 for 5 reps @RPE8 A novice program is very short term for a life time of training and one doesn't "need" to drain every little pound possible.

    Of course he would of still got to 620 for 5 reps if he reloaded twice for about 12-14 weeks and being generous, he gained 30lbs on his dead(making it 250) and then started more advanced programming. But that would of taken longer and been much more grindy of what I dosed him with to progressively overload with better programming.

    When I suggest more advanced programming for somebody fairly new, it will be more efficient and they will get just as strong if not stronger than running a LP with deloads(which doesn't work optimal if you keep the volume the same as LP do).

    If you don't agree with this line of thinking, that's fine. I won't be able to change your mind and I wish you the best.
  • ChieflrgChieflrg Member Posts: 8,832 Member Member Posts: 8,832 Member
    Chieflrg wrote: »
    When we are talking long term training over a life time (which is very important to note), I think it's reasonable to think a few weeks away is close to the end of a LP novice program. A LP novice template really isn't that important compared to any template that have auto regulation that will help with recovery and lowering injury risk. I seriously don't care what program a person uses to start as long as there is adherence and will progress to more advanced programming sooner than later.

    ….

    Is two weeks really that important when we are talking a life time of training? I would hazard not in the least.



    Good stuff.

    I remember one of the things that inspired me as an older lifter (I had not ever done a progressive overload - or any other structured program), was an article written by Jonathon Sullivan when he talked about the correlation between lack of strength and mortality. In it, he stated more than once "If I could get someone under a bar I could change their life". Of course it doesn't really have to be a barbell, but it's probably the best place to start because of its simplicity in dosing.

    Anyway, the bigger picture is that once a person realizes and puts to use the benefits of strength training, I cannot imagine how it would not lead to a lifetime of doing so.

    Same here bud. There is vast evidence that strength training decreases mortality and increases quality of life.

    Hence my next move will involve focusing on training the advanced age people pro bono.
    edited October 2019
  • wiigelecwiigelec Member Posts: 481 Member Member Posts: 481 Member
    The op is commenting on how heavy 60# “feels.”

    I have my doubts that doing a bunch of volume with 45 and 50# is going to make 60# “feel” less heavy especially since he’s already doing 5 x 5. Sometimes you just have to suck it up and grind it out until you know what it really means to “feel” heavy.

    Now if it were 160# that would be a different story...
  • fitpal02020fitpal02020 Member Posts: 193 Member Member Posts: 193 Member
    thanks everyone for your responses
    so i guess i am stuck with weak looking forearms for at least a year
  • CahgetsfitCahgetsfit Member Posts: 1,915 Member Member Posts: 1,915 Member
    jonmarrow wrote: »
    wiigelec wrote: »
    jonmarrow wrote: »
    which I am doing. I just think this program is a bit too basic for me. I mean I am not at the beginner stage or just starting to hit. I think I can do more than 1 rep of deadlift in a set. I need a modified program.
    This strong lift program is like for beginners who probably have never hit the gym. I have been hitting the gym for over 10 years.

    Would you be so kind as to provide your training log for the entire time you have been running strong lifts 5x5?

    For example:
    W1
    D1
    Squat 5 x 5 x 115
    Bench 5 x 5 x 95
    Deadlift 1 x 5 x 135

    D2
    Squat 5 x 5 x 120
    Press 5 x 5 x 55
    Row 5 x 5 x 105

    D3
    Squat 5 x 5 x 125
    Bench 5 x 5 x 100
    Deadlift 1 x 5 x 145

    W2
    D1
    Squat 5 x 5 x 130
    Press 5 x 5 x 60
    Row 1 x 5 x 110

    D2
    Squat 5 x 5 x 135
    Bench 5 x 5 x 105
    Deadlift 1 x 5 x 155

    D3
    Squat 5 x 5 x 140
    Press 5 x 5 x 65
    Row 1 x 5 x 115

    etc...


    W1
    D1
    Squat 5 x 5 x 0
    Bench 5 x 5 x 0
    Deadlift 1 x 5 x 0

    D2
    Squat 5 x 5 x 2.5
    Press 5 x 5 x 2.5
    Row 5 x 5 x 2.5

    D3
    Squat 5 x 5 x 5
    Bench 5 x 5 x 2.5
    Deadlift 1 x 5 x 5
    .
    .
    .
    .
    I increase each weight by 2.5 except for DL, I increase it by 5

    As of week 4, I am at:
    W4

    D1
    Squat 5 x 5 x 25
    Press 5 x 5 x 5
    Row 1 x 5 x 17.5

    D2
    Squat 5 x 5 x 27.5
    Bench 5 x 5 x 15
    Deadlift 1 x 5 x 40

    Please tell me when I will start to see solid formation of my forearms? I am noticing sleep benefits and strength benefits but my shape isn't really changing that much.




    when you start to do reverse grip preacher curls, which is not in the Stronglifts program.
  • wiigelecwiigelec Member Posts: 481 Member Member Posts: 481 Member
    If you want big forearms get a job shaking rebar...
  • jdog022jdog022 Member Posts: 695 Member Member Posts: 695 Member
    jonmarrow wrote: »
    thanks everyone for your responses
    so i guess i am stuck with weak looking forearms for at least a year

    My calves have looked like crap for 3 years and I train the heck out of them. My forearms grow just by looking at them. And well hammer curls. But the point is we all have genetic strengths and weaknesses AND we tend to obsess over the weaknesses. Understand the process. Understand weak points may lag for years...years not weeks or months
    edited October 2019
  • fitpal02020fitpal02020 Member Posts: 193 Member Member Posts: 193 Member
    Cahgetsfit wrote: »
    jonmarrow wrote: »
    OP, if you want biceps, I would recommend the following:

    1. Continue on strong lifts
    2. Have patience
    3. Continue on strong lifts
    4. Have patience
    5. After a time longer than you think, when your dead lift approaches 300+ for reps (you are about the same size as me, but I'm 25 years older and 20 pounds heavier), so I know over time it will get there, add chin-ups to your routine. If you can't do them, start with either lat pull downs or a chin up "machine" that has an assistance component and work your assistance weight down. You'll get all the benefits of a curl, but you'll augment strength in your core, your back, and your shoulders.
    6. Have patience.

    If you want your overhead press to improve, see above.

    I think most folks who do programs like this - or similar will agree that the OHP is the slowest mover of the lifts. For me, it was always the one that stalled first and most often, that I would need to take a step back every once in a while and go ahead. It is a movement whose form is very important. Most people trip up when they do not engage their entire kinetic chain in the movement. You have to tighten everything for this lift to give the most benefit - and for your growth in it to be the most steady.

    To give you an idea, my reps went up pretty steadily until I reached about 105 pounds. I failed the reps on that for 3 straight sessions. Then went back to 85 and worked back up. Passed 105 and stalled again at 120. Backed off to 100 or so, and worked back up. Lather, rinse, repeat. Now, about 1.5 years later, was repping close to 160 for 5 (before a recent car accident - which has sent back down to about 125). It is a process.

    Remember that failing reps is a normal part of your progression at times. Follow what the program says about this.

    This is going to take time. It takes consistent, regular work.

    Have patience.

    I cant have patience when i look at people like this guy
    who have a solid physique by doing more or less the same exercises I was doing in my original routine but now I only have to stick to 3 exercises for god knows how long and no guarantee when i will see big forearms and big biceps but other people can hit the gym do all sorts of exercises and get a fit physique!

    Why do I have to stick to such a boring routine? life is not fair.

    You don't. It just seems like you don't actually know what you want. Stronglifts will give you strenght. Bodybuilding will "sculpt" your body and give you some strength, but not as much as powerlifting types.

    That's why I bodybuild - I was the aesthetic look, and don't care if I can't lift 150kg in a deadlift.

    It also gives you more opportunity to do other exercises that are not just the 3 lifts.

    Oh yeah - and PATIENCE, as others have mentioned above already...

    So dude - have a good think about what you actually want - what are you goals? Is it just big biceps? Well get onto a bodybuilding-type hypertrophy program then, you don't need to OHP impressive numbers to grow your biceps.

    PS - OHP is hard for everyone, so suck it up and chip away at it like everyone else does.

    I want STRENGTH. thats my main goal and thats why I have stuck to doing stronglifts that everyone suggested here. It's a great program so far but at the same time i dont just want to neglect sculpting of my body, especially my forearms and biceps?
    How do I sculpt my forearms and biceps that they at least look normal and strong. I dont want to just get bigger and bigger. I dont to look like a coat hanger, no thanks. I just want a good sculpted physique while having strength.

    How do I sculpt my forearms and biceps while being on the stronglifts program? there, that's my question.
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