Keto diet
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youngmomtaz wrote: »candylilacs wrote: »
That confused me too! I eat nuts and berries often and my carbs are low enough for ketosis. But I run, hike, lift, and am generally active enough that ketosis is easy even with carbs above the 20gm/day mark.
Oh, okay. I also agree that if one is active one can be in ketosis at a higher number.
When I did it, I did the math and figured -- especially since I was active -- that 50 g net could be as low as needed, but to be "safe" (and not be told I didn't give it an adequate try), I aimed for 25 g net, 50 g total. I quickly realized that I could not hit those numbers with the servings of non starchy veg I like to eat (as well as often half an avocado) + a serving of nuts. I changed to 35 g net and around 60 g total (and sometimes was a bit over this but thought that didn't matter if net were 35 g or under).
I would always be right at the top of this with just the veg, avocado, and either one serving of nuts or greek yogurt (plain). I definitely could not have fit in fruit. I suspect you could add in some raspberries or similar for some of the veg or the yogurt, but it still would be very limited amounts and a very limited selection of fruits. That's actually the biggest reason I didn't do it longer than I did.
It could be that you have different idea of serving size for fruit and veg than I do, I don't know. Or that you are eating more carbs than I was, which is certainly possible, and I believe one could get a positive ketosis result on a stick doing so. (I don't think the sticks are especially reliable, but I also don't think it matters whether one is in ketosis or not -- I think the benefit of very low carb for most who benefit is more about satiety, not that ketosis does anything special.)
Diets that are aimed at getting actual, consistent ketosis for medical reasons (the keto diets for epilepsy in kids) tend to be lower carb and protein than even the common "no more than 20 g of net carbs" diets that seem to be the default idea by many on MFP, and my statement about fruit certainly applies to the under 20 g carbs if one is eating also nuts and a variety of non starchy veg. Because the limit is so very low, it was important to me to fill it first with veg, but I do have a somewhat higher than normal idea of the number of veg servings I consider important to eat, and while I think leafy greens like spinach are important I think getting a variety of these veg (including some relatively higher carb ones like brussels sprouts are important too).
I am not down on keto at all -- as there is less of the local fruits I adore in the winter, I am even thinking about giving it another go at some point this coming year, but I'm resigned based on past experience that fruit won't be able to be something I eat regularly if at all, at least without sacrificing veg or choosing super tiny servings.5 -
candylilacs wrote: »
See answer above, but you didn't answer my question about "second phase what." I suspected what you were talking about was 2nd phase Atkins, which I don't think is "keto" strictly speaking and has a higher carb level. As I mentioned above, I also don't think it really matters if one is in ketosis or not (or that the "stix" are all the reliable) but I also believe that that for many even seeking to do a very low carb diet aiming for, say, under 50 net would likely be a better place to start than under 20, so if that's what you like that's great. I was just trying to clarify. (If second phase Atkins is still how I remember it, I'm a fan, I just think it's different from keto.)
I consistently see people who are told or read on the internet that keto is under 20 g carbs or under 5% carbs (often they don't even realize this is NET carbs) and then also told they won't have to limit fruit, nuts, non starchy veg. If you are working from a higher number, I think that should be clarified so newbies won't think they have to be so low. Because in my experience I couldn't have hit 20 g net (let alone what some try to hit) without eliminating fruit and cutting back on non starchy veg, more than I am comfortable with for me.3 -
I alternate between keto and low carb. I go keto in the fall and low carb in the spring. The only real dietary change between the two for me is that I’ll add locally grown fruit and berries to my diet when they become available.
This way of eating is about blood sugar and autoimmune disease management for me, but it has been very beneficial for my overall health and weight management in middle age.4 -
I understand that there is an active low carb group here.
If that way of eating sounds good to you, then give it a try. One of my friends here eats keto and her diary looks to me like what I would have to eat in The Bad Place.
I strongly believe that one should choose a food plan that makes you both healthy and happy.1 -
Every diet for weight loss depends on calorie counting. Whether someone tells you, or figures out for you, what, when, how much to eat, or you have the discipline for doing it for yourself. The only way for losing weight is consuming less calories than your body burns.
Personal preference and what works for you.3 -
maxwell5110 wrote: »I started keto on January 2nd 2019. My starting weight was 255lbs I am 57 year old female who has been overweight my whole life. I have tried every conceivable way of eating the so called experts said would help me lose weight. The myth of calories in vs calories out is just that a myth. Every body is different and the way our hormones process energy is different. In the early 80's I read Atkins and lost 40 lbs. When I went to my Doctor I told that diet was going to kill me and I started eating low fat reduced calorie diet. My doctor said it was only healthy way to lose weight with exercise. I ate 1000 calorie almost zero fat and worked out 5 days a week. I proceeded to gain over 75 lbs eating that way. My Doctor all but called me a liar and said if I was really doing all of that I would not be overweight. I could look at food and gain weight! My blood work was horrible and I was insulin resistant borderline diabetic with high blood pressure. I was 200mg of blood pressure medicine everyday. Today I am 170 lbs my insulin resistance is gone. My A1C went from 9 to 4.9 I only take 10 mg of blood pressure medicine a day. I still workout 5 days a week because exercise has many cognitive benefits it really does not help in weight maintenance. I feel great. I have a cardiologist who is functional medicine and he puts all his patients on LCHF diets. I don't count calories at all! And I feel great my brain fog is gone I feel sharp as a tack. With all that being said, every body is different and there is no diet for all people. You have to find out your genetics and do testing to see how your hormones work to find what your body needs. Good luck!
Ok, first off you did not gain 75lbs eating 1000 cals a day. That is a physical impossibility. 75lbs of weight gain would add roughly 750 cals a day to a tdee. Much like an interview I listened to recently of a Biggest Loser Contestant who lost 200lbs and stated he gained 90lbs in 6 months eating 2000 cals a day. His rmr, even with slowing, would be 2300 a day. I suspect binge and restrict cycles. Not calling you a lair, but something does not add up. I have talked to many people who have had success on keto and low carb. Even some who have lost mass amounts of weight on whole food plant based. If one looks at ad Librium diets, low carb and low fat diets caused weight loss. Both groups reduced their caloric intake automatically. Now, there were out layers on both ends. Some lost more than others and some gained. So, what amount of loss was highly individual in some cases. Regain was in both groups over time, most likely loss of dietary adherence. Both diets have things in common. They usually remove hyper processed foods, eliminate a macro nutrient, and have increased fiber compared to the average american intake. Keto has a different mechanism as it increases protein intake. Average American is 14%, Keto 20-35%. Protein tends to be the most satiating macro per energy unit. Increase PPY, CCK, and GLP-1 dt fiber intake. In the two studies I have read show the results of comparing keto and a high protein/moderate carb diet ad Librium intakes were nearly the same. Keto folks took in 50 cals a day less I believe. High Carb vegans reduce the energy density of their foods massively, allowing them to just eat more. Glad keto is working for you. Its all N=1...2 -
psychod787 wrote: »maxwell5110 wrote: »I started keto on January 2nd 2019. My starting weight was 255lbs I am 57 year old female who has been overweight my whole life. I have tried every conceivable way of eating the so called experts said would help me lose weight. The myth of calories in vs calories out is just that a myth. Every body is different and the way our hormones process energy is different. In the early 80's I read Atkins and lost 40 lbs. When I went to my Doctor I told that diet was going to kill me and I started eating low fat reduced calorie diet. My doctor said it was only healthy way to lose weight with exercise. I ate 1000 calorie almost zero fat and worked out 5 days a week. I proceeded to gain over 75 lbs eating that way. My Doctor all but called me a liar and said if I was really doing all of that I would not be overweight. I could look at food and gain weight! My blood work was horrible and I was insulin resistant borderline diabetic with high blood pressure. I was 200mg of blood pressure medicine everyday. Today I am 170 lbs my insulin resistance is gone. My A1C went from 9 to 4.9 I only take 10 mg of blood pressure medicine a day. I still workout 5 days a week because exercise has many cognitive benefits it really does not help in weight maintenance. I feel great. I have a cardiologist who is functional medicine and he puts all his patients on LCHF diets. I don't count calories at all! And I feel great my brain fog is gone I feel sharp as a tack. With all that being said, every body is different and there is no diet for all people. You have to find out your genetics and do testing to see how your hormones work to find what your body needs. Good luck!
Ok, first off you did not gain 75lbs eating 1000 cals a day. That is a physical impossibility..
Clearly, this person wasn’t ACCURATELY, weighing, measuring their calorie intake. The doctor didn’t believe this person gained weight.3 -
missysippy930 wrote: »psychod787 wrote: »maxwell5110 wrote: »I started keto on January 2nd 2019. My starting weight was 255lbs I am 57 year old female who has been overweight my whole life. I have tried every conceivable way of eating the so called experts said would help me lose weight. The myth of calories in vs calories out is just that a myth. Every body is different and the way our hormones process energy is different. In the early 80's I read Atkins and lost 40 lbs. When I went to my Doctor I told that diet was going to kill me and I started eating low fat reduced calorie diet. My doctor said it was only healthy way to lose weight with exercise. I ate 1000 calorie almost zero fat and worked out 5 days a week. I proceeded to gain over 75 lbs eating that way. My Doctor all but called me a liar and said if I was really doing all of that I would not be overweight. I could look at food and gain weight! My blood work was horrible and I was insulin resistant borderline diabetic with high blood pressure. I was 200mg of blood pressure medicine everyday. Today I am 170 lbs my insulin resistance is gone. My A1C went from 9 to 4.9 I only take 10 mg of blood pressure medicine a day. I still workout 5 days a week because exercise has many cognitive benefits it really does not help in weight maintenance. I feel great. I have a cardiologist who is functional medicine and he puts all his patients on LCHF diets. I don't count calories at all! And I feel great my brain fog is gone I feel sharp as a tack. With all that being said, every body is different and there is no diet for all people. You have to find out your genetics and do testing to see how your hormones work to find what your body needs. Good luck!
Ok, first off you did not gain 75lbs eating 1000 cals a day. That is a physical impossibility..
Clearly, this person wasn’t ACCURATELY, weighing, measuring their calorie intake. The doctor didn’t believe this person gained weight.
Yes ma'am, we people who have been around a while get that, newer folks might not. It is people spouting $#!T like this that sent me down a deep hole years ago! Sorry ma'am1 -
psychod787 wrote: »Ok, first off you did not gain 75lbs eating 1000 cals a day. That is a physical impossibility. 75lbs of weight gain would add roughly 750 cals a day to a tdee. . . . Not calling you a lair, but something does not add up.
First of all, blame the victim much?missysippy930 wrote: »Clearly, this person wasn’t ACCURATELY, weighing, measuring their calorie intake. The doctor didn’t believe this person gained weight.
Who does have a scale for food? I don't.See answer above, but you didn't answer my question about "second phase what." I suspected what you were talking about was 2nd phase Atkins, which I don't think is "keto" strictly speaking and has a higher carb level. As I mentioned above, I also don't think it really matters if one is in ketosis or not (or that the "stix" are all the reliable) but I also believe that that for many even seeking to do a very low carb diet aiming for, say, under 50 net would likely be a better place to start than under 20, so if that's what you like that's great. I was just trying to clarify. (If second phase Atkins is still how I remember it, I'm a fan, I just think it's different from keto.) . . .I consistently see people who are told or read on the internet that keto is under 20 g carbs or under 5% carbs (often they don't even realize this is NET carbs) and then also told they won't have to limit fruit, nuts, non starchy veg.
I had to decide on the "Keto Diet" and the "Atkins20 Diet" with my husband, and the Atkins diet you can have dairy (FairLife) so we went with it. The husband decided he needed to lose weight so I went along with him. The first two weeks had to have 20g of carb each day. No sugar. Vegetables and protein (Meat, dairy and eggs). I had the "keto flu" where I had cramps in my legs -- just having a Propel once a day helps (but it gives 1 gram of carb). Lettuces, cilantro, cucumber, zucchini, and spinach, you couldn't eat enough of them.
I lost 15 lbs.
On to the Phase 2-- nuts, beans, berries, melon and peaches. I have been on this for three weeks. I actually consume about 20-30 carbs a day. Not net carbs, clean 20-30 carbs a day. I actually have to plan around not eating too many carbs so that I can have keto tortillas, keto bread, or keto biscuits. (I have to especially wait on the keto pancakes, strawberries and whipped cream until a weekend!) I have lost 7 pounds.
Phase 3 - just about ten pounds of your goal weight. Phase 4 - your maintenance. You are supposed be adding 10g of carbs a day for them. With Phase 4 you can have 50-100g of carbs. It depends on your body metabolism. I can have 36 carbs a day and still in ketosis (pink). I have 40 carbs a day (trace) and am not.
With a brain injury (stroke) and pneumonia with septic shock that put glucose out of whack (my blood glucose was 460! Three months later it's getting better, 190), I felt like I was going to give it a try. I felt nothing but I must be energetic (I was making my own keto bread, tortillas, etc.) and my blood glucose is 120.
Six weeks of keto, and I lost 22 lbs and my husband lost 24.
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candylilacs wrote: »psychod787 wrote: »Ok, first off you did not gain 75lbs eating 1000 cals a day. That is a physical impossibility. 75lbs of weight gain would add roughly 750 cals a day to a tdee. . . . Not calling you a lair, but something does not add up.
First of all, blame the victim much?missysippy930 wrote: »Clearly, this person wasn’t ACCURATELY, weighing, measuring their calorie intake. The doctor didn’t believe this person gained weight.
Who does have a scale for food? I don't.See answer above, but you didn't answer my question about "second phase what." I suspected what you were talking about was 2nd phase Atkins, which I don't think is "keto" strictly speaking and has a higher carb level. As I mentioned above, I also don't think it really matters if one is in ketosis or not (or that the "stix" are all the reliable) but I also believe that that for many even seeking to do a very low carb diet aiming for, say, under 50 net would likely be a better place to start than under 20, so if that's what you like that's great. I was just trying to clarify. (If second phase Atkins is still how I remember it, I'm a fan, I just think it's different from keto.) . . .I consistently see people who are told or read on the internet that keto is under 20 g carbs or under 5% carbs (often they don't even realize this is NET carbs) and then also told they won't have to limit fruit, nuts, non starchy veg.
I had to decide on the "Keto Diet" and the "Atkins20 Diet" with my husband, and the Atkins diet you can have dairy (FairLife) so we went with it. The husband decided he needed to lose weight so I went along with him. The first two weeks had to have 20g of carb each day. No sugar. Vegetables and protein (Meat, dairy and eggs). I had the "keto flu" where I had cramps in my legs -- just having a Propel once a day helps (but it gives 1 gram of carb). Lettuces, cilantro, cucumber, zucchini, and spinach, you couldn't eat enough of them.
I lost 15 lbs.
On to the Phase 2-- nuts, beans, berries, melon and peaches. I have been on this for three weeks. I actually consume about 20-30 carbs a day. Not net carbs, clean 20-30 carbs a day. I actually have to plan around not eating too many carbs so that I can have keto tortillas, keto bread, or keto biscuits. (I have to especially wait on the keto pancakes, strawberries and whipped cream until a weekend!) I have lost 7 pounds.
Phase 3 - just about ten pounds of your goal weight. Phase 4 - your maintenance. You are supposed be adding 10g of carbs a day for them. With Phase 4 you can have 50-100g of carbs. It depends on your body metabolism. I can have 36 carbs a day and still in ketosis (pink). I have 40 carbs a day (trace) and am not.
With a brain injury (stroke) and pneumonia with septic shock that put glucose out of whack (my blood glucose was 460! Three months later it's getting better, 190), I felt like I was going to give it a try. I felt nothing but I must be energetic (I was making my own keto bread, tortillas, etc.) and my blood glucose is 120.
Six weeks of keto, and I lost 22 lbs and my husband lost 24.
What victim? Someone who spouts CICO does not matter? We know that CICO is what matters in weight loss. The real question is what controls CI. Its a variable that has not been as deeply studied as some aspects of weight loss. We see inside the research that people who reduce carbs or fat, protein held steady, tend to reduce caloric intake about the same. As I stated.... there is some interpersonal variability. Some gained on both diets. I am glad KETO worked for you, but it was not Black Magic. It was simply the mechanism as stated in my post that did it. You found something that worked for you. Does not mean CICO does not matter......1 -
candylilacs wrote: »psychod787 wrote: »Ok, first off you did not gain 75lbs eating 1000 cals a day. That is a physical impossibility. 75lbs of weight gain would add roughly 750 cals a day to a tdee. . . . Not calling you a lair, but something does not add up.
First of all, blame the victim much?missysippy930 wrote: »Clearly, this person wasn’t ACCURATELY, weighing, measuring their calorie intake. The doctor didn’t believe this person gained weight.
Who does have a scale for food? I don't.See answer above, but you didn't answer my question about "second phase what." I suspected what you were talking about was 2nd phase Atkins, which I don't think is "keto" strictly speaking and has a higher carb level. As I mentioned above, I also don't think it really matters if one is in ketosis or not (or that the "stix" are all the reliable) but I also believe that that for many even seeking to do a very low carb diet aiming for, say, under 50 net would likely be a better place to start than under 20, so if that's what you like that's great. I was just trying to clarify. (If second phase Atkins is still how I remember it, I'm a fan, I just think it's different from keto.) . . .I consistently see people who are told or read on the internet that keto is under 20 g carbs or under 5% carbs (often they don't even realize this is NET carbs) and then also told they won't have to limit fruit, nuts, non starchy veg.
I had to decide on the "Keto Diet" and the "Atkins20 Diet" with my husband, and the Atkins diet you can have dairy (FairLife) so we went with it. The husband decided he needed to lose weight so I went along with him. The first two weeks had to have 20g of carb each day. No sugar. Vegetables and protein (Meat, dairy and eggs). I had the "keto flu" where I had cramps in my legs -- just having a Propel once a day helps (but it gives 1 gram of carb). Lettuces, cilantro, cucumber, zucchini, and spinach, you couldn't eat enough of them.
I lost 15 lbs.
On to the Phase 2-- nuts, beans, berries, melon and peaches. I have been on this for three weeks. I actually consume about 20-30 carbs a day. Not net carbs, clean 20-30 carbs a day. I actually have to plan around not eating too many carbs so that I can have keto tortillas, keto bread, or keto biscuits. (I have to especially wait on the keto pancakes, strawberries and whipped cream until a weekend!) I have lost 7 pounds.
Phase 3 - just about ten pounds of your goal weight. Phase 4 - your maintenance. You are supposed be adding 10g of carbs a day for them. With Phase 4 you can have 50-100g of carbs. It depends on your body metabolism. I can have 36 carbs a day and still in ketosis (pink). I have 40 carbs a day (trace) and am not.
With a brain injury (stroke) and pneumonia with septic shock that put glucose out of whack (my blood glucose was 460! Three months later it's getting better, 190), I felt like I was going to give it a try. I felt nothing but I must be energetic (I was making my own keto bread, tortillas, etc.) and my blood glucose is 120.
Six weeks of keto, and I lost 22 lbs and my husband lost 24.
https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/82/1/41/4863422/1 -
youngmomtaz wrote: »I eat keto to help with migraine control.
I do it for this and to help with autoimmune related inflammation as medications alone don't do the trick. In my case it does help.
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I dont do keto, too restrictive but low carb has worked great for me. 100 grams or less and I dont get hungry like I did just counting calories.3
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candylilacs wrote: »See answer above, but you didn't answer my question about "second phase what." I suspected what you were talking about was 2nd phase Atkins, which I don't think is "keto" strictly speaking and has a higher carb level. As I mentioned above, I also don't think it really matters if one is in ketosis or not (or that the "stix" are all the reliable) but I also believe that that for many even seeking to do a very low carb diet aiming for, say, under 50 net would likely be a better place to start than under 20, so if that's what you like that's great. I was just trying to clarify. (If second phase Atkins is still how I remember it, I'm a fan, I just think it's different from keto.) . . .I consistently see people who are told or read on the internet that keto is under 20 g carbs or under 5% carbs (often they don't even realize this is NET carbs) and then also told they won't have to limit fruit, nuts, non starchy veg.
I had to decide on the "Keto Diet" and the "Atkins20 Diet" with my husband, and the Atkins diet you can have dairy (FairLife) so we went with it. The husband decided he needed to lose weight so I went along with him. The first two weeks had to have 20g of carb each day. No sugar. Vegetables and protein (Meat, dairy and eggs). I had the "keto flu" where I had cramps in my legs -- just having a Propel once a day helps (but it gives 1 gram of carb). Lettuces, cilantro, cucumber, zucchini, and spinach, you couldn't eat enough of them.
I lost 15 lbs.
On to the Phase 2-- nuts, beans, berries, melon and peaches. I have been on this for three weeks. I actually consume about 20-30 carbs a day. Not net carbs, clean 20-30 carbs a day. I actually have to plan around not eating too many carbs so that I can have keto tortillas, keto bread, or keto biscuits. (I have to especially wait on the keto pancakes, strawberries and whipped cream until a weekend!) I have lost 7 pounds.
Phase 3 - just about ten pounds of your goal weight. Phase 4 - your maintenance. You are supposed be adding 10g of carbs a day for them. With Phase 4 you can have 50-100g of carbs. It depends on your body metabolism. I can have 36 carbs a day and still in ketosis (pink). I have 40 carbs a day (trace) and am not.
With a brain injury (stroke) and pneumonia with septic shock that put glucose out of whack (my blood glucose was 460! Three months later it's getting better, 190), I felt like I was going to give it a try. I felt nothing but I must be energetic (I was making my own keto bread, tortillas, etc.) and my blood glucose is 120.
Six weeks of keto, and I lost 22 lbs and my husband lost 24.
So like I suspected, Atkins Phase 2. Like I said, I like Atkins phase 2, would find it easier in general than keto [btw, I checked the site and it says 25-50 g NET carbs, but unlimited veg and certain fruits is based on the assumption that you aren't eating a bunch of fake bread and that you aren't a big veg eater even for those numbers, IMO], but if you are eating keto tortillas, keto bread, nuts, berries, melon, and peaches, and say you are under 20-30 total carbs per day, you can't be eating many vegetables and the servings of nuts and fruit must be pretty tiny.
As I said, I did 35 NET carbs, 60 or so total, and I filled them all with vegetables (non starchy, and I had to stress about it, eating less than normal) plus a serving of nuts and/or a serving of greek yogurt (usually just one or the other) plus half an avocado. I ate no other fruit and absolutely no keto treats or fake bread or low carb bread type products (I don't eat bread much normally so wouldn't bother with low carb bread personally on such a low carb limit). So no, I find it hard to believe that its easy to eat plenty of veg, fruit, and nuts on 20-30 total carbs, and as noted above that's not the carb level normally assumed in Phase 2 Atkins (a medium peach is going to be around 15 g total carbs on its own, and there's about 10 g in 1/2 a cup of blueberries).2 -
Strawberries! I love them. I consume "Keto" tortillas and bread products three times a week. I had 50 carbs today!1
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There seems to be a bit of confusion going on. CICO will work. Just because CC doesn’t work because you find it difficult to stick to-as opposed to diets based on eliminating food groups, like keto-doesn’t mean it physically wouldn’t work for you. If you were at a retreat that provided you with non-keto meals that were only based on CICO and you had no choice-they did all the measuring, cooking, and portioning for you-you would lose weight.
It doesn’t work the other way. Someone cannot eat an unlimited keto diet and lose weight.4 -
The results aren't from ketosis, they are because for some keto makes it easier to stick to restricted cals (many count cals while doing it) and because some naturally restrict cals when doing it, either because they find their diets more sating, are avoiding foods they tended to overeat (most of which are high in both carbs and fat), or just because the diet is inherently restrictive, or some combination.
For me, calorie counting works (although most of what I eat lacks a bar code, so I've never used the scanner) but also cal counting tends to cause me to be more likely to choose foods that are more sating, not less -- I dislike the idea that some others expressed that somehow cal counting means you don't pick foods that you find more sating.
Anyway, I tried keto as an experiment and found it interesting and not unpleasant, but I missed some of the foods I consider healthful and delicious that I couldn't have much or any of with the carb limit. But that was at maintenance. I could see doing it again to get a bit leaner as trying different dietary approaches can sometimes be motivating for me, and it was a pretty easy dietary pattern.
Totally agree. I eat what I want it's just that I have concrete numbers so I know that my "hunger" is more habit that necessity.
The other popular one is intermittent fasting where you basically narrow it to one or two meals within an 8-12 hour window and maintain a fasting state between the rest. This keeps habitual snackers from overeating and comes with some benefits. But it's kind of the same idea, making calorie restriction a by product than the objective.
CICO is much simpler for me and works great.
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