Abstinence
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missysippy930 wrote: »psychod787 wrote: »missysippy930 wrote: »Probably why over 80% of people fail at keeping the weight off, myself included. It is a long term commitment and not east to abstain for life.
80% might be a little high... lol, but agreed, on top of the biological drive to regain and environment. It is not easy at all.
Actually, it’s probably a higher percent, according to some statistics, for people keeping the weight off five years or more. Pretty dismal thought, I realize.
"Weight regain is generally the rule, with one-third to two-thirds of the weight lost being regained within 1 year and almost all is regained within 5 years."
Obes Rev. 2015 Feb;16 Suppl 1:1-6. doi: 10.1111/obr.12250.
Pathways from dieting to weight regain, to obesity and to the metabolic syndrome: an overview.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25614198
https://www.apa.org/science/about/psa/2018/05/calorie-deprivation
Our mileage will always vary. I'm happy for all those who don't struggle with T2 and glucose regulation and haven't encountered rebound weight gain with friends.
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Abstinence is not always a bad thing. I have found that some things I can now eat in moderation after over 2 years of maintenance. On the other I've developed a popcorn issue. I have had to cut it out. I would faithfully weigh out my portion then find myself going back for "just one more bite" over and over until I gained 13 pounds of fat. Personally, not eating popcorn for now is a better option for me rather than being miserable because I'm either trying to moderate and failing or sitting around craving popcorn constantly. I'm a couple days in on no popcorn and don't even miss it but one bite and I'm out of control again. Used to be like this with sugar. Now I can have a mini chocolate bar and be happy. Time will tell.3
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cmriverside wrote: »psychod787 wrote: »cmriverside wrote: »"In reality, 97 percent of dieters regain everything they lost and then some within three years. Obesity research fails to reflect this truth because it rarely follows people for more than 18 months. This makes most weight-loss studies disingenuous at best and downright deceptive at worst."
That's BS. Or I'm in the 3%. Lost 80ish pounds in 2007-08.
Still at 21-22 BMI 12 years later.
I call BS as well. @cmriverside , believe it or not, you are a heroine to people like me. I say that "success" is contextual. The media LOVES to report that people regain all their lost weight be cause.... DRUM ROLL..... It makes people feel good and makes good sales. The negative always sells. If we look at people who lose weight. Many regain some, some gain all, some overshoot, only a small amount maintain all. So, I believe the numbers are screwed up. Take me. I lost 200+. Maintained it all for two years. Was just in bad shape and have sense regained 20, with 20 to go. Does that make me a failure because I regained some weight? The media would lead you to believe that. If we look at the... oh god help me for bringing this up..... The Biggest Losers season 8 folks, the media would have you believed they gained all there weight back. Some did..... many did not. There was a wide range of people who kept off various amounts of weight loss. Though, as an average from the group it was over 10% of BW change, so by many experts expectations, sustained weight loss. AND who ever had the fortitude to disagree that there IS A BIOLOGICAL DRIVE to regain.... Post up.... I will be more that happy to send you study after study that points to it....
See, people will even disagree that I'm a Hero. **Stands in Wonder Woman pose**
It may be that we are biologically driven to eat, but we are also biologically driven to stop eating when full if we're getting decent nutrition and are at a healthy weight. Honestly, look at my next post, I was all over the place in year One. I think everything is out of whack hormonally once someone becomes overweight, during weight loss, and in that whole first year post weight loss.
Granted I still had the psychological problem with food. I hadn't really addressed that part. I didn't even know I had that and I was white-knuckling my weight loss and wrangling my body into submission but I hadn't recovered fully from my long term over eating, not emotionally and not habitually. (I know you'll get that.) It's fairly easy to lose weight if it just takes a few months. It's long term that's the sticky wicket and really that got a lot easier in time as well.
I don't believe it was entirely because of biological imperative that I struggled to maintain at first, I believe it was also a thinking problem compounded by messed up body systems (hormones) due to my former obesity - but then I'm not going to post any studies. It was difficult in that first year after weight loss, really difficult.
We don't talk enough about this stuff IRL so why would the media? People would rather eat all the delicious food available than to have to change. I get that. It's a huge shift to make and people fight you at every turn. We'd rather say, "Oh, that poor person, look he gained it all back pass the chips." It's a way to rationalize our own bad decisions and we looooooooove to feel superior at our 200 pounds, even if that is overweight. "I'm not that bad."
I have a few people I'm friendly with who are in the 300-400 pound range who have known me fat and not fat. Other than right after my weight loss no one is quizzing me about this so it's not really my place to talk about my experience and I'm certainly not getting into preaching with acquaintances. That never ends well. Now I have the benefit of successful long term maintenance, hindsight and time but no one really sees me as that fat woman anymore. I pray that I can hold on to that. I think I can.
I completely agree with there are other factors that come into play in weight regain. Absolutely our environment plays a part, society, and yes, mental issues around food. Its ok, they don't disagree with you, I have my own disagree crew. I am kinda flattered in a way. My ideas are, well, fringe. That does not mean they are wrong though. As I state repeatedly, "CICO is king or queen, for weight loss." Though, I have spent the last 2 years trying to understand what drives us to over eat and regain. What drives us on a biological level is becoming more clear to me. For people to deny there are biological issues that drive regain is well, WEAK! lol
** Edit** As I said above, I challenge people to stand up and be heard if they disagree with my thoughts. Show me evidence against them and I will read it. It is the only way we grow and learn. Problem with many of the people here is... They love to HIDE behind the veil of anonymity that is the internet. I will not. I use my REAL picture as my avatar most of the time. Its my real home town on my profile and even sign some of my post with my real name. I don't fear criticism, I embrace it and LEARN from it.0 -
psychod787 wrote: »cmriverside wrote: »psychod787 wrote: »cmriverside wrote: »"In reality, 97 percent of dieters regain everything they lost and then some within three years. Obesity research fails to reflect this truth because it rarely follows people for more than 18 months. This makes most weight-loss studies disingenuous at best and downright deceptive at worst."
That's BS. Or I'm in the 3%. Lost 80ish pounds in 2007-08.
Still at 21-22 BMI 12 years later.
I call BS as well. @cmriverside , believe it or not, you are a heroine to people like me. I say that "success" is contextual. The media LOVES to report that people regain all their lost weight be cause.... DRUM ROLL..... It makes people feel good and makes good sales. The negative always sells. If we look at people who lose weight. Many regain some, some gain all, some overshoot, only a small amount maintain all. So, I believe the numbers are screwed up. Take me. I lost 200+. Maintained it all for two years. Was just in bad shape and have sense regained 20, with 20 to go. Does that make me a failure because I regained some weight? The media would lead you to believe that. If we look at the... oh god help me for bringing this up..... The Biggest Losers season 8 folks, the media would have you believed they gained all there weight back. Some did..... many did not. There was a wide range of people who kept off various amounts of weight loss. Though, as an average from the group it was over 10% of BW change, so by many experts expectations, sustained weight loss. AND who ever had the fortitude to disagree that there IS A BIOLOGICAL DRIVE to regain.... Post up.... I will be more that happy to send you study after study that points to it....
See, people will even disagree that I'm a Hero. **Stands in Wonder Woman pose**
It may be that we are biologically driven to eat, but we are also biologically driven to stop eating when full if we're getting decent nutrition and are at a healthy weight. Honestly, look at my next post, I was all over the place in year One. I think everything is out of whack hormonally once someone becomes overweight, during weight loss, and in that whole first year post weight loss.
Granted I still had the psychological problem with food. I hadn't really addressed that part. I didn't even know I had that and I was white-knuckling my weight loss and wrangling my body into submission but I hadn't recovered fully from my long term over eating, not emotionally and not habitually. (I know you'll get that.) It's fairly easy to lose weight if it just takes a few months. It's long term that's the sticky wicket and really that got a lot easier in time as well.
I don't believe it was entirely because of biological imperative that I struggled to maintain at first, I believe it was also a thinking problem compounded by messed up body systems (hormones) due to my former obesity - but then I'm not going to post any studies. It was difficult in that first year after weight loss, really difficult.
We don't talk enough about this stuff IRL so why would the media? People would rather eat all the delicious food available than to have to change. I get that. It's a huge shift to make and people fight you at every turn. We'd rather say, "Oh, that poor person, look he gained it all back pass the chips." It's a way to rationalize our own bad decisions and we looooooooove to feel superior at our 200 pounds, even if that is overweight. "I'm not that bad."
I have a few people I'm friendly with who are in the 300-400 pound range who have known me fat and not fat. Other than right after my weight loss no one is quizzing me about this so it's not really my place to talk about my experience and I'm certainly not getting into preaching with acquaintances. That never ends well. Now I have the benefit of successful long term maintenance, hindsight and time but no one really sees me as that fat woman anymore. I pray that I can hold on to that. I think I can.
I completely agree with there are other factors that come into play in weight regain. Absolutely our environment plays a part, society, and yes, mental issues around food. Its ok, they don't disagree with you, I have my own disagree crew. I am kinda flattered in a way. My ideas are, well, fringe. That does not mean they are wrong though. As I state repeatedly, "CICO is king or queen, for weight loss." Though, I have spent the last 2 years trying to understand what drives us to over eat and regain. What drives us on a biological level is becoming more clear to me. For people to deny there are biological issues that drive regain is well, WEAK! lol
** Edit** As I said above, I challenge people to stand up and be heard if they disagree with my thoughts. Show me evidence against them and I will read it. It is the only way we grow and learn. Problem with many of the people here is... They love to HIDE behind the veil of anonymity that is the internet. I will not. I use my REAL picture as my avatar most of the time. Its my real home town on my profile and even sign some of my post with my real name. I don't fear criticism, I embrace it and LEARN from it.
I believe from my own experience that if people can get into that healthy weight range and then hold on to that for 6-12 months they will feel and see a marked difference in their food preferences and ability to maintain with little effort.
It probably didn't help me that I set a weight loss goal by a certain date, achieved it, and then proceeded to celebrate my achievement by going on several trips, not logging and eating and drinking at will. It was the first time I'd lost weight and there was a significant learning curve to all of it, not just the numbers/losing part.
That was my downfall, wanting to go back to how it was. How it was is over. RIP How It Was.3 -
PrismaticPhoenix wrote: »For myself personally regarding abstinence, I would say that if something is "food," it isn't inherently unhealthy and that's not the reason that I would choose to abstain from it. For example, I'm considering abstaining from certain foods, but not because I consider them to be inherently unhealthy. Rather, these are foods that I personally am unable to manage at least at this time. When I try to eat them in moderation, I experience stress as I attempt to eat them in moderation and often I fail to do so and I eat way too much of them. Until and unless I figure out a way to manage these foods, abstinence may be the way to go.
To put it simply, if there is a box of cookies in the house, it is, in fact, easier for me to not eat any of them than it is to eat just two or three of them. I know this may sound odd, but it's true.
You put into words exactly what I am thinking. Right now it is easier to abstain from foods that are difficult to moderate. To be fair, my social worker at the partial program is not a fan of this long term because she doesn't want me to relapse into anorexia and bulimia. We agreed at one month of abstinence from tough foods, then re-evaluation.kshama2001 wrote: »
SMART Recovery was super helpful for me when I had a problem with alcohol 20 years ago. I abstained for a while, and now I can moderate, although it's been months since I had a drink so I wouldn't even call it drinking moderately.
It's quite likely your BED treatment person will also use a cognitive behavioral approach.
They should be familiar with this book, which was available in my library system, so perhaps yours as well:
The Beck Diet Solution: Train Your Brain to Think Like a Thin Person
Can thinking and eating like a thin person be learned, similar to learning to drive or use a computer? Beck (Cognitive Therapy for Challenging Problems) contends so, based on decades of work with patients who have lost pounds and maintained weight through Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT). Beck's six-week program adapts CBT, a therapeutic system developed by Beck's father, Aaron, in the 1960s, to specific challenges faced by yo-yo dieters, including negative thinking, bargaining, emotional eating, bingeing, and eating out. Beck counsels readers day-by-day, introducing new elements (creating advantage response cards, choosing a diet, enlisting a diet coach, making a weight-loss graph) progressively and offering tools to help readers stay focused (writing exercises, to-do lists, ways to counter negative thoughts). There are no eating plans, calorie counts, recipes or exercises; according to Beck, any healthy diet will work if readers learn to think differently about eating and food. Beck's book is like an extended therapy session with a diet coach. (Apr.)
Thank you for the book recommendation, I will check it out.0 -
Today is day 4 without binging/emotional eating. I don't think I have ever gone more than 5 days without problematic eating behaviors, so I am super excited to think that I may break my own record this week.
I worked VERY hard in therapy, even the social worker commented that I did well. I came home from program and 1-1 therapy and took a 4 hour nap. It was so needed.6 -
PrismaticPhoenix wrote: »jennifer_417 wrote: »For example, I'm considering abstaining from certain foods, but not because I consider them to be inherently unhealthy. Rather, these are foods that I personally am unable to manage at least at this time.
I can’t get these quotes right on my phone 🙄, this is me:
“At this time” is great. That may change. Or not. I could not just eat a few cookies or a few pieces of candy. If that box was there somewhere in the house, I’d keep going back until it was done. So I abstained for a long time. I’d try it again, nope, still not working. So abstained again. Now I can moderate some previous “trigger foods”: ice cream and Oreos have gone bad in my house. Halloween candy is sitting in my husband’s closet (so I see it all the time when I go to the bathroom)...still there. Just threw out a bucket of Easter candy from that closet. What?!? Never thought that would happen! Yet, I still can’t indulge in sweets or chips in moderation if I’m drinking. It’s either wine or dessert. Both = badness.1 -
The only way I'm able to moderate which is abstinence daily is only having trigger foods when out as I don't go out to eat often. I'm not as likely to go for seconds when other people are around. Occassionally I'll bring home a pint of light ice cream leaving calories for the whole thing. I tried moderation when I reached goal to fill the extra calories and ate it all. Having only produce and protein in the house works way better for me. I hope one day I'm able to moderate but for now having a bag of candy in the house or a gallon of ice cream means I'll eat it all.1
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It gives me hope that you've been able to get to the point that you can moderate some foods that previously you couldn't. I'm hoping that this will eventually happen with me, that eventually, I'll be able to say, "Sure, I'll have a small slice of pie." Because right now I'm seeing articles that are all, "How to have a reasonable Thanksgiving dinner: meal plans that include a small slice of pumpkin pie," and I'm sitting there sighing and thinking, "If I have pumpkin pie, there's no way it will be 'a small slice.' I'm either not going to have any or I'm going to have a very massive amount." Hopefully, this will change as time goes on and I get a handle on my eating. Fingers crossed!gradchica27 wrote: »I can’t get these quotes right on my phone 🙄, this is me:
“At this time” is great. That may change. Or not. I could not just eat a few cookies or a few pieces of candy. If that box was there somewhere in the house, I’d keep going back until it was done. So I abstained for a long time. I’d try it again, nope, still not working. So abstained again. Now I can moderate some previous “trigger foods”: ice cream and Oreos have gone bad in my house. Halloween candy is sitting in my husband’s closet (so I see it all the time when I go to the bathroom)...still there. Just threw out a bucket of Easter candy from that closet. What?!? Never thought that would happen! Yet, I still can’t indulge in sweets or chips in moderation if I’m drinking. It’s either wine or dessert. Both = badness.1 -
Replaced all my sweets with sugar free low calorie options.
Dryers 70cal fudge bars sugarfree
Homemade sugar free jello to puddings
Dark chocolate 🍫 not regular going by serving sizes only now.
100cal ice creams sugar free
40cal popsicle brand fudge pops to fruit pops
Etc etc etc
Then trying to stick to my calories if I eat an Apple 🍎 or this which will fill me up right now? Apples on my salads to with peanut butter or by itself.
2 small pieces of dark chocolate added to my low cal Special K cereal.
Baked Cheetos or no butter popcorn 🍿 instead of greasy potato chips.0
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