Insulin and ketogenic diet

hoomanhojati
hoomanhojati Posts: 5 Member
edited December 24 in Food and Nutrition
Hey guys
Do you know if a diabetic person with insulin injection can use a keto diet or no?

Replies

  • hoomanhojati
    hoomanhojati Posts: 5 Member
    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    You should talk to your doctor about that.

    Thanks, i will
  • hoomanhojati
    hoomanhojati Posts: 5 Member
    cwolfman13 wrote: »
    Great question for your doctor...not a bunch of randos on the internet.

    Aha, thanks
  • psuLemon
    psuLemon Posts: 38,431 MFP Moderator
    edited January 2020
    There are people who are both type I and II diabetics that are ketogenic diets. I would definitely talk to your doctor.

    @midwesterner
  • Megan_smartiepants1970
    Megan_smartiepants1970 Posts: 43,604 Member
    I am type 2 diabetic and I was on insulin who did Keto....but I was under my doctors supervision...I am no longer on insulin or Keto....so please talk to your Dr.
  • hoomanhojati
    hoomanhojati Posts: 5 Member
    psuLemon wrote: »
    There are people who are both type I and II diabetics that are ketogenic diets. I would definitely talk to your doctor.

    @midwesterner

    Thanks
  • hoomanhojati
    hoomanhojati Posts: 5 Member
    Megan_smartiepants1970 wrote: »
    I am type 2 diabetic and I was on insulin who did Keto....but I was under my doctors supervision...I am no longer on insulin or Keto....so please talk to your Dr.

    Thank you
  • Sylphadora
    Sylphadora Posts: 75 Member
    I encourage you to read the book The Diabetes Code by Dr Jason Fung and watch his videos on YouTube. He is a nephrologist who uses fasting and the ketogenic diet to treat type II diabetes with a lot of success



  • lemurcat2
    lemurcat2 Posts: 7,885 Member
    As noted above, the main thing is that I would absolutely NEVER suggest that someone with T1 should embark on a new way of eating that might affect insulin needs significantly without talking to his or her doctor. I actually do believe that even T1's can (at least sometimes) use keto as a way to help control the diabetes, as I know someone who has and have listened to podcasts with others (NOT a good source of medical advice also -- but worth noting that these were also not Fung disciples). But I think it's very important to have medical supervision/awareness here.
  • T1DCarnivoreRunner
    T1DCarnivoreRunner Posts: 11,502 Member
    edited January 2020
    hoomanhojati wrote: »
    Hey guys
    Do you know if a diabetic person with insulin injection can use a keto diet or no?

    Yes, but you have to manage properly. Things to know are whether you are supplementing insulin (type 2) or using exogenous insulin for substantially all of your needs (type 1).

    What types of insulin do you take and how is it delivered? Assuming your basal insulin rate, amount, and timing is correctly set; the only affect any dietary change should ever have is on bolus insulin. Your bolus insulin amount for carbs will decrease, but you will need insulin for protein. Dr. Bernstein addresses protein bolus in his book The Diabetes Solution, but times his bolus such that dietary protein is mostly used for gluconeogenesis.
    Personally, I don't like that strategy since I prefer to use dietary protein for protein synthesis, but his strategy works for those interested in BG control.

    ETA: FYI if you go low, take glucose tablets as needed. You will find it will take fewer carbs once keto adapted, and treating properly (i.e. do not eat the whole kitchen) will not prevent ketosis.
  • Sunny_Bunny_
    Sunny_Bunny_ Posts: 7,140 Member
    Honestly, I wouldn’t ask your doctor about it because nearly all of them don’t understand it, aren’t current on research and in my experience, one diabetes educator actually told my daughter she would die if she ate a keto diet and refused to see her ever again because of her choice to eat that way.
    My daughter brought her A1c from 14 to 5.8 and s still working on it. This dramatic improvement in control triggered her peripheral neuropathy to begin to heal. Neuropathy which took months to even get diagnosed because doctors kept insisting that it’s impossible to acquire it in only 6 years since diagnosis. False!!! Nerve conduction study confirmed she has moderate nerve damage at 25 years old.
    The only way to potentially heal some of the damage is to maintain normal non diabetic blood sugars as much as possible.
    The ONLY study ever to show type 1 diabetics doing exactly that with little deviation in blood sugar like a non diabetic person is this one which was done on a group of people eating 30g total carbs a day or less.
    https://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/141/6/e20173349

    If you can achieve non diabetic blood sugars you can avoid all complications of diabetes and possibly even heal damage you’ve already done.

    You should get Dr Richard K Bernstein’s book The Diabetes Solution of you want to learn to do it.
  • Sunny_Bunny_
    Sunny_Bunny_ Posts: 7,140 Member
    edited January 2020
    magnusthenerd wrote: »
    Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »
    Honestly, I wouldn’t ask your doctor about it because nearly all of them don’t understand it, aren’t current on research and in my experience, one diabetes educator actually told my daughter she would die if she ate a keto diet and refused to see her ever again because of her choice to eat that way.
    My daughter brought her A1c from 14 to 5.8 and s still working on it. This dramatic improvement in control triggered her peripheral neuropathy to begin to heal. Neuropathy which took months to even get diagnosed because doctors kept insisting that it’s impossible to acquire it in only 6 years since diagnosis. False!!! Nerve conduction study confirmed she has moderate nerve damage at 25 years old.
    The only way to potentially heal some of the damage is to maintain normal non diabetic blood sugars as much as possible.
    The ONLY study ever to show type 1 diabetics doing exactly that with little deviation in blood sugar like a non diabetic person is this one which was done on a group of people eating 30g total carbs a day or less.
    https://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/141/6/e20173349

    If you can achieve non diabetic blood sugars you can avoid all complications of diabetes and possibly even heal damage you’ve already done.

    You should get Dr Richard K Bernstein’s book The Diabetes Solution of you want to learn to do it.

    I don't think this study is the quality of evidence you think it is. It isn't an intervention study. It is a survey of self-reported eating and reported A1C. It is an equally valid conclusion that people (or children with parents) that worried enough about their health go on a ketogenic diet (based on the 36g daily average intake) in hopes of controlling their A1C results in managing A1C, rather than the diet itself.

    In comparison, there is the National Weight Control Registry which studies people that have maintained weight loss. In their survey, a strong majority of participants report getting regular exercise. Yet, we know in intervention studies, prescribing exercise doesn't lead to weight loss with high success.

    I’m in the group with these people the study was done on. I can guarantee you it was the diet since every single one of them previously followed the ADA diet as their doctors recommended and never got near normal blood sugar control.
    So low carb diet either helped make blood sugar easier to control or it made people previously unaware of how to control and maintain it at normal levels suddenly understand...
    Either way, it’s a win.
  • Sunny_Bunny_
    Sunny_Bunny_ Posts: 7,140 Member
    These two photos are from the same person.
    The first one was trying to correctly dose insulin to a high carb diet. Working hard every day on trying to iron out the kinks. They took the diabetes education classes and attended every Endocrinologist appointment and their doctor wasn’t even really concerned with the rollercoaster graphs because they are “to be expected” with a type 1 child. Notice the in target range on the first photo. Really big target they couldn’t even maintain staying in regardless of how hard they tried.
    akal3j9a24od.jpeg


    The same people, learned that low carb was indeed possible despite what their doctor advised. They have it a shot and immediately began to stay in range. So much so that tightening up the target to a normal non diabetic range became the goal which they now meet with no more work than before unless you count making low carb treats for their kid instead of buying store bought ones, and a lot less stress in their life.

    pu2jx60tfvp1.jpeg

    These people didn’t suddenly decide to be healthy as compared to not caring before. They didn’t suddenly learn how insulin works. How to inject properly.
    The only new skill they learned was that eating low carb makes blood sugar control much easier.
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