Gaining weight over night?
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cwolfman13 wrote: »thescouselander77 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »thescouselander77 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »thescouselander77 wrote: »I'm a bit confused here why people are disagreeing with comments about weight gain being impossible without eating or drinking.
Everyone does understand conservation of mass, right?
Because biological functions cause water fluctuations that have nothing to do with whether or not you've eaten or drunken anything.
Most people commenting here understand quite a bit...many commenting on this have been here for years and been there done that.
That's not how it works. At night when the OP steps on the scale there are a defined number of atoms that constitute their body matter plus any food and waste in their intestinal tract. Food etc can go through various chemical reactions but the total number of atoms and therefore mass will stay the same throughout - matter is not created or destroyed; this is a physical law.
Now, it is possible that losses are made through exhaled water vapour and perspiration etc so mass/weight can be lost but it can never go up unless more atoms/mass is added to the system/body through eating or drinking. For it to work any other way would be a violation of the laws of physics.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservation_of_mass
Dude...I can fluctuate anywhere from 2-5 Lbs day to day up or down. I can go to bed and weigh in the morning and be up 3 Lbs and then be down 5 the next day, etc. I'm not talking about fat mass...I'm talking about water fluctuations for which your body is comprised of roughly 50-65% water and that fluctuates and has nothing to do with drinking water.
If I eat a salty dinner at night, by morning I'm easily retaining water...if I'm stressed out, cortisol levels are raised and will retain water. Depending on where my wife is in here cycle, her weight can go all over the place because of water fluctuations...she's gone to bed completely normal and woke up bloated and 8 Lbs heavier than the previous day. If I fly I can easily gain 8-10 Lbs of bloat, etc, etc, etc.
Yeah, I do that too but it's only retention of water that has been consumed during the day so if I weigh myself immediately before bed any water that will be retained is already in my system and will show up as weight on the scale.
Where are you suggesting this water that is retained over night comes from? It can't just materialise.
You retain it...sweat less...urinate less in the morning, etc.
There are any number of things that cause water retention and release that aren't related to drinking water.
Yes but you can't have more water in your body than you started with at the beginning of the night. Even if you didn't lose any water you'd be the exact same weight in the morning as you were last thing at night.6 -
With this scale stuff.... I submit that there might be a difference in how the feet are being placed. My scale will read slightly differently if I am an inch or so forward or back.
And yeah, unless you are in severe humidity that is soaking into your hair and everything else, you can't gain weight overnight without drinking. The most that would happen is fluid would re-balance itself in different parts of your body but you cannot take on water without it somehow entering into or sticking onto your body.
So... faulty scale, uneven floor, uneven foot placement on said scale. (With all of these statements I'm talking about differences in weight just before going to bed post-pee and getting up in the morning pre-drink.)5 -
thescouselander77 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »thescouselander77 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »thescouselander77 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »thescouselander77 wrote: »I'm a bit confused here why people are disagreeing with comments about weight gain being impossible without eating or drinking.
Everyone does understand conservation of mass, right?
Because biological functions cause water fluctuations that have nothing to do with whether or not you've eaten or drunken anything.
Most people commenting here understand quite a bit...many commenting on this have been here for years and been there done that.
That's not how it works. At night when the OP steps on the scale there are a defined number of atoms that constitute their body matter plus any food and waste in their intestinal tract. Food etc can go through various chemical reactions but the total number of atoms and therefore mass will stay the same throughout - matter is not created or destroyed; this is a physical law.
Now, it is possible that losses are made through exhaled water vapour and perspiration etc so mass/weight can be lost but it can never go up unless more atoms/mass is added to the system/body through eating or drinking. For it to work any other way would be a violation of the laws of physics.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservation_of_mass
Dude...I can fluctuate anywhere from 2-5 Lbs day to day up or down. I can go to bed and weigh in the morning and be up 3 Lbs and then be down 5 the next day, etc. I'm not talking about fat mass...I'm talking about water fluctuations for which your body is comprised of roughly 50-65% water and that fluctuates and has nothing to do with drinking water.
If I eat a salty dinner at night, by morning I'm easily retaining water...if I'm stressed out, cortisol levels are raised and will retain water. Depending on where my wife is in here cycle, her weight can go all over the place because of water fluctuations...she's gone to bed completely normal and woke up bloated and 8 Lbs heavier than the previous day. If I fly I can easily gain 8-10 Lbs of bloat, etc, etc, etc.
Yeah, I do that too but it's only retention of water that has been consumed during the day so if I weigh myself immediately before bed any water that will be retained is already in my system and will show up as weight on the scale.
Where are you suggesting this water that is retained over night comes from? It can't just materialise.
You retain it...sweat less...urinate less in the morning, etc.
There are any number of things that cause water retention and release that aren't related to drinking water.
Yes but you can't have more water in your body than you started with at the beginning of the night. Even if you didn't lose any water you'd be the exact same weight in the morning as you were last thing at night.
Your body can produce water through cellular respiration...the water in your body isn't just water you drink and isn't variable solely by how much water you drink or don't drink.7 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »thescouselander77 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »thescouselander77 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »thescouselander77 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »thescouselander77 wrote: »I'm a bit confused here why people are disagreeing with comments about weight gain being impossible without eating or drinking.
Everyone does understand conservation of mass, right?
Because biological functions cause water fluctuations that have nothing to do with whether or not you've eaten or drunken anything.
Most people commenting here understand quite a bit...many commenting on this have been here for years and been there done that.
That's not how it works. At night when the OP steps on the scale there are a defined number of atoms that constitute their body matter plus any food and waste in their intestinal tract. Food etc can go through various chemical reactions but the total number of atoms and therefore mass will stay the same throughout - matter is not created or destroyed; this is a physical law.
Now, it is possible that losses are made through exhaled water vapour and perspiration etc so mass/weight can be lost but it can never go up unless more atoms/mass is added to the system/body through eating or drinking. For it to work any other way would be a violation of the laws of physics.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservation_of_mass
Dude...I can fluctuate anywhere from 2-5 Lbs day to day up or down. I can go to bed and weigh in the morning and be up 3 Lbs and then be down 5 the next day, etc. I'm not talking about fat mass...I'm talking about water fluctuations for which your body is comprised of roughly 50-65% water and that fluctuates and has nothing to do with drinking water.
If I eat a salty dinner at night, by morning I'm easily retaining water...if I'm stressed out, cortisol levels are raised and will retain water. Depending on where my wife is in here cycle, her weight can go all over the place because of water fluctuations...she's gone to bed completely normal and woke up bloated and 8 Lbs heavier than the previous day. If I fly I can easily gain 8-10 Lbs of bloat, etc, etc, etc.
Yeah, I do that too but it's only retention of water that has been consumed during the day so if I weigh myself immediately before bed any water that will be retained is already in my system and will show up as weight on the scale.
Where are you suggesting this water that is retained over night comes from? It can't just materialise.
You retain it...sweat less...urinate less in the morning, etc.
There are any number of things that cause water retention and release that aren't related to drinking water.
Yes but you can't have more water in your body than you started with at the beginning of the night. Even if you didn't lose any water you'd be the exact same weight in the morning as you were last thing at night.
Your body can produce water through cellular respiration...the water in your body isn't just water you drink and isn't variable solely by how much water you drink or don't drink.
Yes but that process is just a chemical reaction where one substance is transformed into another and as per my earlier link chemical reactions always conform to the principle of conservation of mass.
So when the body makes water it converts glucose (already in the body) with Oxygen (breathed in) and produces water (retained) + CO2 (breathed out). Overall in that process weight is lost because CO2 is heavier than just Oxygen on its own7 -
The water content of your body varies from day to day. Water is heavy. If you feel bloated, some dandelion tea will cause you to pee it out.1
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I also think that humidity, temperature and barometric pressure may affect our scales. Especially if you have a cheap one like I do.2
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You absolutely can gain water weight without drinking more water. People with congestive heart failure do it all the time.4
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Peops? Are we talking past each other?
We all agree the scale fluctuates. We all agree you can retain water.
We can all agree that you can wake up lighter in the morning because you perspired and exhaled some of the contents of your body overnight.
Other than faulty measurements (which we have FAR from excluded in this case), or night-time secret eating or unaccounted for drinking, what mechanism do we propose where extra mass enters the body overnight?9 -
thescouselander77 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »thescouselander77 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »thescouselander77 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »thescouselander77 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »thescouselander77 wrote: »I'm a bit confused here why people are disagreeing with comments about weight gain being impossible without eating or drinking.
Everyone does understand conservation of mass, right?
Because biological functions cause water fluctuations that have nothing to do with whether or not you've eaten or drunken anything.
Most people commenting here understand quite a bit...many commenting on this have been here for years and been there done that.
That's not how it works. At night when the OP steps on the scale there are a defined number of atoms that constitute their body matter plus any food and waste in their intestinal tract. Food etc can go through various chemical reactions but the total number of atoms and therefore mass will stay the same throughout - matter is not created or destroyed; this is a physical law.
Now, it is possible that losses are made through exhaled water vapour and perspiration etc so mass/weight can be lost but it can never go up unless more atoms/mass is added to the system/body through eating or drinking. For it to work any other way would be a violation of the laws of physics.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservation_of_mass
Dude...I can fluctuate anywhere from 2-5 Lbs day to day up or down. I can go to bed and weigh in the morning and be up 3 Lbs and then be down 5 the next day, etc. I'm not talking about fat mass...I'm talking about water fluctuations for which your body is comprised of roughly 50-65% water and that fluctuates and has nothing to do with drinking water.
If I eat a salty dinner at night, by morning I'm easily retaining water...if I'm stressed out, cortisol levels are raised and will retain water. Depending on where my wife is in here cycle, her weight can go all over the place because of water fluctuations...she's gone to bed completely normal and woke up bloated and 8 Lbs heavier than the previous day. If I fly I can easily gain 8-10 Lbs of bloat, etc, etc, etc.
Yeah, I do that too but it's only retention of water that has been consumed during the day so if I weigh myself immediately before bed any water that will be retained is already in my system and will show up as weight on the scale.
Where are you suggesting this water that is retained over night comes from? It can't just materialise.
You retain it...sweat less...urinate less in the morning, etc.
There are any number of things that cause water retention and release that aren't related to drinking water.
Yes but you can't have more water in your body than you started with at the beginning of the night. Even if you didn't lose any water you'd be the exact same weight in the morning as you were last thing at night.
Your body can produce water through cellular respiration...the water in your body isn't just water you drink and isn't variable solely by how much water you drink or don't drink.
Yes but that process is just a chemical reaction where one substance is transformed into another and as per my earlier link chemical reactions always conform to the principle of conservation of mass.
So when the body makes water it converts glucose (already in the body) with Oxygen (breathed in) and produces water (retained) + CO2 (breathed out). Overall in that process weight is lost because CO2 is heavier than just Oxygen on its own
Explain how people gain a lot of water weight when going from a low carb diet to eating higher carbohydrates and the body producing more water. 1 gram of carbohydrates is going to come with about 4 grams of water.
I really can't believe you think water weight fluctuations are attributable only to how much water you drink. If this was the case, one could drink a gallon of water everyday and shouldn't see any fluctuation...which I can assure you isnt the case.3 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »Explain how people gain a lot of water weight when going from a low carb diet to eating higher carbohydrates and the body producing more water. 1 gram of carbohydrates is going to come with about 4 grams of water.
I really can't believe you think water weight fluctuations are attributable only to how much water you drink. If this was the case, one could drink a gallon of water everyday and shouldn't see any fluctuation...which I can assure you isnt the case.
What does all this have to do with weigh-in before bed and weigh-in after bed. The water balance and retained water changes from what is already inside the body at the time of last weigh-in absent any new inputs and excretions...
You are bringing in the water balance changes from earlier in the day.5 -
Peops? Are we talking past each other?
We all agree the scale fluctuates. We all agree you can retain water.
We can all agree that you can wake up lighter in the morning because you perspired and exhaled some of the contents of your body overnight.
Other than faulty measurements (which we have FAR from excluded in this case), or night-time secret eating or unaccounted for drinking, what mechanism do we propose where extra mass enters the body overnight?
IDK...a high carb dinner or a high carb day in general resulting in additional water with metabolism? Could be a bad scale, but i've never actually seen a scale just do that before. I've had my scale for 15 years and it's just fine.1 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »IDK...a high carb dinner or a high carb day in general resulting in additional water with metabolism? Could be a bad scale, but i've never actually seen a scale just do that before. I've had my scale for 15 years and it's just fine.
It does (high carb/low carb/glycogen changes) affect weight. Of course it does. Same as heart or kidney or other medical issues also mentioned.
But we are not talking here about relative body composition, but the total weight of the person in reference to the weight with which they went to bed at night--and absent any inputs past that time.
The question here is (we are assuming accurately stated) that there were no inputs between measurements except maybe picking up moisture from the air via the skin? and possible outputs such as sweat and exhalation.
So an increase of the magnitude pretty much has to be a local gravitational anomaly or a faulty measurement situation.
Usual culprits are floor type and placement... or broken scales.7 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »IDK...a high carb dinner or a high carb day in general resulting in additional water with metabolism? Could be a bad scale, but i've never actually seen a scale just do that before. I've had my scale for 15 years and it's just fine.
It does (high carb/low carb/glycogen changes) affect weight. Of course it does.
But it is the overnight balance of all the food and water you've taken in vs what comes out in the morning (sometimes more, sometimes less)
The question here is (we are assuming accurately stated) that there were no inputs between measurements except maybe picking up moisture from the air via the skin? and possible outputs such as sweat and exhalation.
So an increase of the magnitude pretty much has to be a local gravitational anomaly or a faulty measurement situation.
Usual culprits are floor type and placement... or broken scales.
But when you carb load, you don't just take water right there at the meal...it's taken up as it is being metabolized which isn't immediate. So in theory, you could actually take on water through the night while metabolizing a carb load. When I did endurance cycling and racing and I would carb load starting a couple of days before and it was pretty evident every morning.
As the scale goes, I'd likely put more money on humidity or something. I can step on the scale first thing and then take a shower and get on again and show a difference from the first weigh in.
Bottom line is that it's nothing to be concerned about either way...you aren't getting fat overnight. If the scale continues to do wonky things then check the batteries and/or then a new scale.
ETA: she could also be just ovulating or somewhere in her cycle that is just causing overnight water retention. That happens to my wife all the time. It could be a lot of things, including the scale, but definitely not fat...so nothing to be concerned with.2 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »But when you carb load, you don't just take water right there at the meal...it's taken up as it is being metabolized which isn't immediate. So in theory, you could actually take on water through the night while metabolizing a carb load.
Correct.
now think of an internal and external water balance loop.
External loop is food, drink, pee, poo, exhale, perspire... Most inputs are conscious except maybe absorbing moisture through the skin (say a soak in an appropriately salted bathtub) or having an IV bag stuck into you while you're passed out.
Inside loop is contents of tummy and intestines and how much water gets sucked out of them in passing. And possibly sucking the water out of some cell structures in your body and shuffling it to other cell structures in your body.
The outside loop changes your weight no question.
The inside loop changes your body's composition but other than spending some of the energy and turning it into carbon dioxide that gets exhaled, I don't see how the inside loop can increase the existing total mass of the contents it is working with. The inside loop is what takes care of glycogen and edema.
But the fuel has to come from the outside loop if you want to end up at a higher weight. And it doesn't have to be a gallon of water. The veggies I just ate have plenty of water in them!5 -
OP is obviously a sleepwalker, and is raiding the kitchen at night... 😊7
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So OP, if you're still here, the REAL takeaway is that you know it's not fat. The body does lots of weird things. Don't stress about short term scale fluctuations, keep your eyes on the prize - long term, lasting results. And just in case, maybe treat yourself to a new scale
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cwolfman13 wrote: »thescouselander77 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »thescouselander77 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »thescouselander77 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »thescouselander77 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »thescouselander77 wrote: »I'm a bit confused here why people are disagreeing with comments about weight gain being impossible without eating or drinking.
Everyone does understand conservation of mass, right?
Because biological functions cause water fluctuations that have nothing to do with whether or not you've eaten or drunken anything.
Most people commenting here understand quite a bit...many commenting on this have been here for years and been there done that.
That's not how it works. At night when the OP steps on the scale there are a defined number of atoms that constitute their body matter plus any food and waste in their intestinal tract. Food etc can go through various chemical reactions but the total number of atoms and therefore mass will stay the same throughout - matter is not created or destroyed; this is a physical law.
Now, it is possible that losses are made through exhaled water vapour and perspiration etc so mass/weight can be lost but it can never go up unless more atoms/mass is added to the system/body through eating or drinking. For it to work any other way would be a violation of the laws of physics.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservation_of_mass
Dude...I can fluctuate anywhere from 2-5 Lbs day to day up or down. I can go to bed and weigh in the morning and be up 3 Lbs and then be down 5 the next day, etc. I'm not talking about fat mass...I'm talking about water fluctuations for which your body is comprised of roughly 50-65% water and that fluctuates and has nothing to do with drinking water.
If I eat a salty dinner at night, by morning I'm easily retaining water...if I'm stressed out, cortisol levels are raised and will retain water. Depending on where my wife is in here cycle, her weight can go all over the place because of water fluctuations...she's gone to bed completely normal and woke up bloated and 8 Lbs heavier than the previous day. If I fly I can easily gain 8-10 Lbs of bloat, etc, etc, etc.
Yeah, I do that too but it's only retention of water that has been consumed during the day so if I weigh myself immediately before bed any water that will be retained is already in my system and will show up as weight on the scale.
Where are you suggesting this water that is retained over night comes from? It can't just materialise.
You retain it...sweat less...urinate less in the morning, etc.
There are any number of things that cause water retention and release that aren't related to drinking water.
Yes but you can't have more water in your body than you started with at the beginning of the night. Even if you didn't lose any water you'd be the exact same weight in the morning as you were last thing at night.
Your body can produce water through cellular respiration...the water in your body isn't just water you drink and isn't variable solely by how much water you drink or don't drink.
Yes but that process is just a chemical reaction where one substance is transformed into another and as per my earlier link chemical reactions always conform to the principle of conservation of mass.
So when the body makes water it converts glucose (already in the body) with Oxygen (breathed in) and produces water (retained) + CO2 (breathed out). Overall in that process weight is lost because CO2 is heavier than just Oxygen on its own
Explain how people gain a lot of water weight when going from a low carb diet to eating higher carbohydrates and the body producing more water. 1 gram of carbohydrates is going to come with about 4 grams of water.
I really can't believe you think water weight fluctuations are attributable only to how much water you drink. If this was the case, one could drink a gallon of water everyday and shouldn't see any fluctuation...which I can assure you isnt the case.
I didn't say that - I said water is only taken on when you eat and drink. Regarding carbohydrates these are made up of carbon, hydrogen and oxygen atoms as the name suggests and these are rearranged in the body to create water and other substences. The point is in that reaction the atoms you start with in the food are exactly the same as what you end with when it's broken down. If you eat a big bowl of pasta before bed it might well metabolise into water over night but the total weight of all the atoms will remain the same therefore the increase in weight happens when you eat/drink and not as a result of chemical reactions in the body.4 -
This thread is hurting my head.
whatever the food and liquid you’ve consumed during the day wants to do after you go to bed, however it’s moving about your body, it cannot weigh more in the morning than it weighed when you consumed it. If you weigh 160 pounds right before you hop into bed, you can’t weigh more when you wake up. People who wake up bloated have not just miraculously added fluid to their bodies, it’s the fluids that were already consumed prior to bedtime that decided to move to the bloated spots, either due to sodium, carbs, congestive heart failure, whatever. Just my 2 cents. 8 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »IDK...a high carb dinner or a high carb day in general resulting in additional water with metabolism? Could be a bad scale, but i've never actually seen a scale just do that before. I've had my scale for 15 years and it's just fine.
It does (high carb/low carb/glycogen changes) affect weight. Of course it does. Same as heart or kidney or other medical issues also mentioned.
But we are not talking here about relative body composition, but the total weight of the person in reference to the weight with which they went to bed at night--and absent any inputs past that time.
The question here is (we are assuming accurately stated) that there were no inputs between measurements except maybe picking up moisture from the air via the skin? and possible outputs such as sweat and exhalation.
So an increase of the magnitude pretty much has to be a local gravitational anomaly or a faulty measurement situation.
Usual culprits are floor type and placement... or broken scales.
I agree, I've spent over a year weighing directly before bed, naked after using the toilet then weighing first thing on a morning, naked and after using the toilet - during that 7 or so hours inbetween never have I gained while being asleep - I've either stayed the same or lost, and that varies a lot, sometimes up to 3 or 4lb.
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