what program to follow after doing 5x5 strong lifts?
fitpal02020
Posts: 193 Member
I now want to build muscle and biceps. Did 5x5 stronglifts for 4 months. What's the next most appropriate program for me to follow?
2
Replies
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Hello Jon. Prior to answering, I was one of those who was not exactly patient with you awhile back when you had asked about the different programs and what you wanted to do. So I wanted to apologize for that.
To answer your question, there are many plans you can go to after 5x5, which is considered a Novice Linear Progression (NLP). The one you choose will depend on your goals.
Your goals might depend on how well Strong Lifts worked for you....so how did that go?1 -
First it would be helpful to know what progress you have made with the program. Especially since you also just started thread asking about de-loading.1
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Madcow its from medhi of stronglifts and its actually meant for exactly after stronglifts. Download the spreadsheet. I did both and got awesome results a few yrs ago. I also did GOMAD ( gallon of whole milk a day).2
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How was your progress with stronglifts? Have you really plateaued or do you think you could continue progressing for a while? What are your goals? Do you want to build strength, power, or more is it more for aesthetics?1
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If your goals are strength then you could try the bridge which is an 8 week powerlifting style template from barbellmedicine.com. It’s free. Designed for those who have done novice linear progression programmes like stronglifts. If you want something more hypertrophy based the same site has a variety of programmes. The bridge is free, the others are not.1
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The Bridge is a more than a decent template I would recommend if you don't plan on having a trainer at this point.
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How long were you lifting before SL? If SL is your first program, Four months is not long at all. I say run SL until you do not make progress, and if you are stalling after four months, either you are progressing to fast or there are other issues that are holding you back. When I started lifting, I ran a program similar to SL (a liner progression template) for two years before I had to look into a non liner progression style of program.2
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dinosnopro wrote: »How long were you lifting before SL? If SL is your first program, Four months is not long at all. I say run SL until you do not make progress, and if you are stalling after four months, either you are progressing to fast or there are other issues that are holding you back. When I started lifting, I ran a program similar to SL (a liner progression template) for two years before I had to look into a non liner progression style of program.
I topped out on stronglifts after 4 months. It’s variable but i don’t think it’s optimal to keep deloadung repeatedly. My bench and ohp had definitely stalled and they didn’t come unstuck until I started an intermediate programme.3 -
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dinosnopro wrote: »How long were you lifting before SL? If SL is your first program, Four months is not long at all. I say run SL until you do not make progress, and if you are stalling after four months, either you are progressing to fast or there are other issues that are holding you back. When I started lifting, I ran a program similar to SL (a liner progression template) for two years before I had to look into a non liner progression style of program.
Four months is pretty much the average range for stalling on that program from those I've talked to.
I think I stalled on it in my fourth month also when I ran SL after a 12 month training hiatus to have treatments.
I would argue running a LP for two years vs. four months and then moving onto more advanced programming is not optimal if your goal is long term gaining strength.
Deloads have there place. With a LP that volume is a flat lined throughout the template. Deloads will not aid in producing a adaptation or upward trend when we are talking long term gains of a LP that volume never changes compared to more advanced programming.
*I'd also like to add there is no coloration of how strong a person can be with regards when they stalled on a LP. Some people stall earlier than others and become elite and vise versa.
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dinosnopro wrote: »How long were you lifting before SL? If SL is your first program, Four months is not long at all. I say run SL until you do not make progress, and if you are stalling after four months, either you are progressing to fast or there are other issues that are holding you back. When I started lifting, I ran a program similar to SL (a liner progression template) for two years before I had to look into a non liner progression style of program.
Four months is pretty much the average range for stalling on that program from those I've talked to.
I think I stalled on it in my fourth month also when I ran SL after a 12 month training hiatus to have treatments.
I would argue running a LP for two years vs. four months and then moving onto more advanced programming is not optimal if your goal is long term gaining strength.
Deloads have there place. With a LP that volume is a flat lined throughout the template. Deloads will not aid in producing a adaptation or upward trend when we are talking long term gains of a LP that volume never changes compared to more advanced programming.
*I'd also like to add there is no coloration of how strong a person can be with regards when they stalled on a LP. Some people stall earlier than others and become elite and vise versa.
I wouldn't mind seeing more info from OP. Are they missing all their lifts? Was it a "bad day/week", maybe had outside stresses playing a part?
I'm not saying it isn't possible to stall that fast, but I also wouldn't abandon a program right away, and I'm not suggesting a deload either. Depending on the lead up to the stall, I would repeat the week/cycle and go from there.
I think faulting the program right away can lead to program hopping, which isn't optimal either. Because once the training age increases, stalls will come with any program. There are elite athletes that fight for years for a five pond PR.
Tl;dr It's not always the program.2 -
dinosnopro wrote: »dinosnopro wrote: »How long were you lifting before SL? If SL is your first program, Four months is not long at all. I say run SL until you do not make progress, and if you are stalling after four months, either you are progressing to fast or there are other issues that are holding you back. When I started lifting, I ran a program similar to SL (a liner progression template) for two years before I had to look into a non liner progression style of program.
Four months is pretty much the average range for stalling on that program from those I've talked to.
I think I stalled on it in my fourth month also when I ran SL after a 12 month training hiatus to have treatments.
I would argue running a LP for two years vs. four months and then moving onto more advanced programming is not optimal if your goal is long term gaining strength.
Deloads have there place. With a LP that volume is a flat lined throughout the template. Deloads will not aid in producing a adaptation or upward trend when we are talking long term gains of a LP that volume never changes compared to more advanced programming.
*I'd also like to add there is no coloration of how strong a person can be with regards when they stalled on a LP. Some people stall earlier than others and become elite and vise versa.
I wouldn't mind seeing more info from OP. Are they missing all their lifts? Was it a "bad day/week", maybe had outside stresses playing a part?
I'm not saying it isn't possible to stall that fast, but I also wouldn't abandon a program right away, and I'm not suggesting a deload either. Depending on the lead up to the stall, I would repeat the week/cycle and go from there.
I think faulting the program right away can lead to program hopping, which isn't optimal either. Because once the training age increases, stalls will come with any program. There are elite athletes that fight for years for a five pond PR.
Tl;dr It's not always the program.
OP could continue for a month or so and may or may not gain strength.
In the grand scheme of things while thinking on a long term basis,. A LP is proven to be very short lived and will not have much noticeable impact on our training 10 years from now. It simply isn't that important and most experienced coaches will lean towards training being sub optimal to try to squeeze a LP compared to better programming.
I'm not faulting SL, I'm saying it served its reasonable purpose to build a strength base which literally can be done with any program for a untrained person by the way.
OP states his/her current goal is to build muscle and biceps. SL is not designed to produce hypertrophy after many months of running, it's considered a beginner program to build a strength base.
When the OP is asking for the next step, it's more than reasonable to move onto more advanced programming that allows for better hypertrophy response, adequate volume, and hopefully auto regulation. The three things a LP is lacking greatly for somebody who has some training experience.
Being a master athlete, who many of my peers might consider me on the cusp of elite in the powerlifting world along with being ranked in the top five of my weight/age class in the USAPL and lastly being a strength coach for several decades...I do recognize what works and the pitfalls for most people. I'm not picking on you personally and respect your input, it's just been my experience that it isn't that important to squeeze a LP.
1 -
Silentpadna wrote: »Hello Jon. Prior to answering, I was one of those who was not exactly patient with you awhile back when you had asked about the different programs and what you wanted to do. So I wanted to apologize for that.
To answer your question, there are many plans you can go to after 5x5, which is considered a Novice Linear Progression (NLP). The one you choose will depend on your goals.
Your goals might depend on how well Strong Lifts worked for you....so how did that go?
Thank you. I appreciate your apology.
The stronglifts went good but I think I am at a point where I cannot progress further.
Here are my latest progress stats in terms of weight (lbs) on each side of the barbell:
overheadpress - 15 lbs
benchpress- 37.5lbs
barbell row- 55 lbs
squat - 80lbs
deadlift - 80lbs
what do you suggest I do next? I guess my weakest point is the overhead press.1 -
DancingMoosie wrote: »How was your progress with stronglifts? Have you really plateaued or do you think you could continue progressing for a while? What are your goals? Do you want to build strength, power, or more is it more for aesthetics?
So here are my latest progress stats in terms of weight (lbs) on each side of the barbell:
overheadpress - 15 lbs
benchpress- 37.5lbs
barbell row- 55 lbs
squat - 80lbs
deadlift - 80lbs
I think I cannot progress further. I have definitely seen positive change in my physique. I now focus on building muscle but also continue to build strength.
1 -
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dinosnopro wrote: »How long were you lifting before SL? If SL is your first program, Four months is not long at all. I say run SL until you do not make progress, and if you are stalling after four months, either you are progressing to fast or there are other issues that are holding you back. When I started lifting, I ran a program similar to SL (a liner progression template) for two years before I had to look into a non liner progression style of program.
so you're telling me for 2 years you did nothing but stronglifts? how did you build muscle?
Yes I think I am not able to progress further. I wonna change up so that while I still work on cores I want to focus on building muscles too.
I definitely have halted and here are my latest progress stats in terms of weight (lbs) on each side of the barbell:
overheadpress - 15 lbs
benchpress- 37.5lbs
barbell row- 55 lbs
squat - 80lbs
deadlift - 80lbs
1 -
dinosnopro wrote: »dinosnopro wrote: »How long were you lifting before SL? If SL is your first program, Four months is not long at all. I say run SL until you do not make progress, and if you are stalling after four months, either you are progressing to fast or there are other issues that are holding you back. When I started lifting, I ran a program similar to SL (a liner progression template) for two years before I had to look into a non liner progression style of program.
Four months is pretty much the average range for stalling on that program from those I've talked to.
I think I stalled on it in my fourth month also when I ran SL after a 12 month training hiatus to have treatments.
I would argue running a LP for two years vs. four months and then moving onto more advanced programming is not optimal if your goal is long term gaining strength.
Deloads have there place. With a LP that volume is a flat lined throughout the template. Deloads will not aid in producing a adaptation or upward trend when we are talking long term gains of a LP that volume never changes compared to more advanced programming.
*I'd also like to add there is no coloration of how strong a person can be with regards when they stalled on a LP. Some people stall earlier than others and become elite and vise versa.
I wouldn't mind seeing more info from OP. Are they missing all their lifts? Was it a "bad day/week", maybe had outside stresses playing a part?
I'm not saying it isn't possible to stall that fast, but I also wouldn't abandon a program right away, and I'm not suggesting a deload either. Depending on the lead up to the stall, I would repeat the week/cycle and go from there.
I think faulting the program right away can lead to program hopping, which isn't optimal either. Because once the training age increases, stalls will come with any program. There are elite athletes that fight for years for a five pond PR.
Tl;dr It's not always the program.
I wonna build muscle now! now that im able to do some bench press1 -
dinosnopro wrote: »dinosnopro wrote: »How long were you lifting before SL? If SL is your first program, Four months is not long at all. I say run SL until you do not make progress, and if you are stalling after four months, either you are progressing to fast or there are other issues that are holding you back. When I started lifting, I ran a program similar to SL (a liner progression template) for two years before I had to look into a non liner progression style of program.
Four months is pretty much the average range for stalling on that program from those I've talked to.
I think I stalled on it in my fourth month also when I ran SL after a 12 month training hiatus to have treatments.
I would argue running a LP for two years vs. four months and then moving onto more advanced programming is not optimal if your goal is long term gaining strength.
Deloads have there place. With a LP that volume is a flat lined throughout the template. Deloads will not aid in producing a adaptation or upward trend when we are talking long term gains of a LP that volume never changes compared to more advanced programming.
*I'd also like to add there is no coloration of how strong a person can be with regards when they stalled on a LP. Some people stall earlier than others and become elite and vise versa.
I wouldn't mind seeing more info from OP. Are they missing all their lifts? Was it a "bad day/week", maybe had outside stresses playing a part?
I'm not saying it isn't possible to stall that fast, but I also wouldn't abandon a program right away, and I'm not suggesting a deload either. Depending on the lead up to the stall, I would repeat the week/cycle and go from there.
I think faulting the program right away can lead to program hopping, which isn't optimal either. Because once the training age increases, stalls will come with any program. There are elite athletes that fight for years for a five pond PR.
Tl;dr It's not always the program.
OP could continue for a month or so and may or may not gain strength.
In the grand scheme of things while thinking on a long term basis,. A LP is proven to be very short lived and will not have much noticeable impact on our training 10 years from now. It simply isn't that important and most experienced coaches will lean towards training being sub optimal to try to squeeze a LP compared to better programming.
I'm not faulting SL, I'm saying it served its reasonable purpose to build a strength base which literally can be done with any program for a untrained person by the way.
OP states his/her current goal is to build muscle and biceps. SL is not designed to produce hypertrophy after many months of running, it's considered a beginner program to build a strength base.
When the OP is asking for the next step, it's more than reasonable to move onto more advanced programming that allows for better hypertrophy response, adequate volume, and hopefully auto regulation. The three things a LP is lacking greatly for somebody who has some training experience.
Being a master athlete, who many of my peers might consider me on the cusp of elite in the powerlifting world along with being ranked in the top five of my weight/age class in the USAPL and lastly being a strength coach for several decades...I do recognize what works and the pitfalls for most people. I'm not picking on you personally and respect your input, it's just been my experience that it isn't that important to squeeze a LP.
thanks, so then what program would you suggest for me?2 -
DancingMoosie wrote: »How was your progress with stronglifts? Have you really plateaued or do you think you could continue progressing for a while? What are your goals? Do you want to build strength, power, or more is it more for aesthetics?
So here are my latest progress stats in terms of weight (lbs) on each side of the barbell:
overheadpress - 15 lbs
benchpress- 37.5lbs
barbell row- 55 lbs
squat - 80lbs
deadlift - 80lbs
I think I cannot progress further. I have definitely seen positive change in my physique. I now focus on building muscle but also continue to build strength.
I know this was one of the communication issues we were having in the past. If you have that amount on each side, you would double the weight and add the weight of the bar to calculate the total weight. That's the number you give when asked how much you are lifting. It just makes communication more clear when everyone is using the same common language.2 -
^^°this...Are the weights you listed the total amount lifted(including weight of bar) or just what weight you put on each side?0
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ok...and your point is?nutmegoreo wrote: »DancingMoosie wrote: »How was your progress with stronglifts? Have you really plateaued or do you think you could continue progressing for a while? What are your goals? Do you want to build strength, power, or more is it more for aesthetics?
So here are my latest progress stats in terms of weight (lbs) on each side of the barbell:
overheadpress - 15 lbs
benchpress- 37.5lbs
barbell row- 55 lbs
squat - 80lbs
deadlift - 80lbs
I think I cannot progress further. I have definitely seen positive change in my physique. I now focus on building muscle but also continue to build strength.
I know this was one of the communication issues we were having in the past. If you have that amount on each side, you would double the weight and add the weight of the bar to calculate the total weight. That's the number you give when asked how much you are lifting. It just makes communication more clear when everyone is using the same common language.
its obviously you can do the math yourself here. I don't understand the point of your lecture in such a condescending tone.
Wow. I won't deny that I can be condescending at times, but my comment here was most certainly not one of those times. I was trying to suggest clear communication would go a long way to ensuring you are getting advice that is appropriate for your situation. If you read anything beyond that in my post, that's squarely on you.
Additionally, there are different weighted bars. We have no idea which one(s) you are using. It would make more sense for you to give the actual total numbers than for us to try to guess.4 -
I was asking for the same information. The way you word it is confusing. We were asking for clarification. So...were you stating total weight lifted, the amount put on one side, or each side???0
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DancingMoosie wrote: »I was asking for the same information. The way you word it is confusing. We were asking for clarification. So...were you stating total weight lifted, the amount put on one side, or each side???
progress stats in terms of weight (lbs) on EACH SIDE of the barbell, each side has the following weights:
overheadpress - 15 lbs
benchpress- 37.5lbs
barbell row- 55 lbs
squat - 80lbs
deadlift - 80lbs
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