Eating clean vs staying in a deficit
KayleeJH12
Posts: 2 Member
Hypothetically if you were to eat in a deficit and get to a low enough weight, could abs/muscle tone show even without eating super clean? I’d say I eat 50/50 so if I continue to do basic workout strength training routines, would I ever start to show stomach/leg toning if I lost enough weight or no? I hope this makes sense. Also I understand you can’t spot train, I do full body. Thanks for the help in advance.
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Replies
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What does eating clean mean to you, and why do you think this has any influence on whether muscles would show or not?15
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Like getting calories in healthy food vs unhealthy foods I guess. By eating clean I mean eating healthy and I’d say I eat healthy for 50% of my meals. I know having too much sugar in your daily nutrition makes fat store easier or something like that. So would I just be losing muscle rather than fat if I ate at a deficit but unhealthy to a certain extent? I just don’t know how that affects body composition and that’s why I’m asking I guess. Especially showing abdominal muscles because of the general stomach fat. It definitely seems harder for muscle definition to show there than everywhere else. Hope this helps?3
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Deficit is the only way weight is lost.
What you choose to eat is your choice. Exercise can help define muscle groups.
Healthy is a relatve term. Eating a well balanced diet, based on RDA, as long as you are eating at a calorie deficit getting proper nutrition.8 -
Fat is an energy store, it's not used up by eating clean / eating healthy - it's used up by being in a an energy deficit. Yes of course someone should eat well for their health but it doesn't have magical powers for fat loss to show underlying muscle definition.
It's really not helpful to assign labels of healthy / unhealthy to perfectly normal foods. Diets (noun and verb) can be unhealthy but think of your entire diet, even what you call "unhealthy foods" have nutrition (read the labels...). Find a balance you can sustain long term.
Yes you can spot train - muscles (usually not the best course of action). You can't spot reduce fat which is what I think you mean.
"Too much sugar" only leads to fat storage (which won't actually be from your sugar intake but that's pretty irrelevant) if you are in a consistent calorie surplus. It's the surplus that increases your body fat - again not the component parts of your diet. Big picture not small picture.....13 -
KayleeJH12 wrote: »Like getting calories in healthy food vs unhealthy foods I guess. By eating clean I mean eating healthy and I’d say I eat healthy for 50% of my meals. I know having too much sugar in your daily nutrition makes fat store easier or something like that. So would I just be losing muscle rather than fat if I ate at a deficit but unhealthy to a certain extent? I just don’t know how that affects body composition and that’s why I’m asking I guess. Especially showing abdominal muscles because of the general stomach fat. It definitely seems harder for muscle definition to show there than everywhere else. Hope this helps?
Generally speaking other than foods that contain high amounts of trans fat or could directly effect existing health conditions, I would not deem certain foods "unhealthy".
Your body composition will reflect on a few variables in a caloric deficit. We know that for most trained people even in the most optimal condirions, it is nearly impossible to retain 100% muscle while eating in a deficit. If we are untrained, then initially we can respond in a sensitive nature for a short period of time.
1. Is one producing appropriate musculature stimulus to help retain muscle?
2. Is one consuming adequate macros & EAAs that coupled with the musculature stimulus will produce MPS?
I suggest eating well balanced meals and resistance train appropriately and set long term with your short term goals.
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At a certain point as you stay in deficit and approach a bodyfat % where your abs show. you will need to make a decision. How badly do I want my abs to show? I have to eat "clean" 6 out of 7 days a week's to maintain. My Profile Pic was from last week.1
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Eating in a deficit will lead to weight loss. Ab definition will be a result of low enough bodyfat% for them to show as well as muscle base and genetics. While you can technically eat anything to get into a deficit to lose, in order to retain muscle l would also make sure to get enough protein. Proper nutrition is important for health, satiety and in some cases workout performance (which can have an effect on muscle retention/building).4
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Not sure what the dislikes were for but ok no problem.
Here is video that explains what I was trying to say.
Diet Training and Fat deposition
https://youtu.be/Yz7Ofr9z1co 1 -
Eating really dirty or extra super clean = meaningless in the big picture. Super clean eating assigns moral judgment to foods but in the long run it doesn't help anyone lose weight. It overcomplicates the process. When we start overthinking every morsel of food we can start drifting off into a very narrow way of eating and living.
Clean or dirty eating are not useful for short-term and useless over the long haul. We are not better because we eat clean. Framing extra special foods as clean becomes a moral high ground to stand on. These beliefs lead to a health halo effect. Clean eating is a made-up rule.
All of these clean eating and food elimination rules and regulations....did it change everything for you then?
If they really worked we would all find long term and permanent weight stability with clean eating. We would be fixed and there would be no such thing as rebound weight gain with friends.
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I don't think it matters as far as weight or aesthetics go. However, health is much more than that so I would think about this long term. It's all about finding a balance you can sustain. Make changes slowly. I probably eat close to 80/20 healthy/unhealthy bc I find that sustainable. Too much junk and I feel like crap and am always hungry.2
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I had 6 pack abs in high school, in the military after, and in college in my 20s until about my mid 20s or so. I ate like your stereotypical teenager and stereotypical college student. In my mid 40s now, it would be much more difficult to achieve that and eat the way I ate back then because I just don't burn as many calories as I used to, so eating that way often would certainly make it more difficult to stay out of a surplus.
In high school I was a competitive athlete as a track and field sprinter, and also played football and wrestled for a season. In the military I was in a combat ready unit, so always moving. In college I worked landscape construction and also didn't own a car much of the time so I biked or walked everywhere.
Now I have a desk job, and even with regular exercise I'm nowhere near as active as I was back then.2 -
there is food that makes you malnourished without proper vitamins this is unhealthy food. You can lose sight with bad diet for very long period of time. You can get scurvy with improper diet. Unless your diet is balanced enough there is unhealthy food to choose from, too much of it and you get diseases.3
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For many people to get to low enough in body fat to have a six pack would require sticking to a strict deficit, it doesn’t matter what you eat as long as you stick to it and of course train your muscles and eat adequate protein. The reason why many people stick to “clean” foods when doing this is that lower calorie and higher fibre/volume/protein foods help people to stick to the deficit. Also of course nutrition is important for health and energy.9
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At a certain point as you stay in deficit and approach a bodyfat % where your abs show. you will need to make a decision. How badly do I want my abs to show? I have to eat "clean" 6 out of 7 days a week's to maintain. My Profile Pic was from last week.Not sure what the dislikes were for but ok no problem.
The disagrees might have something to do with stating that you need to eat 'clean' to have visible abs/muscle definition (or at least it came across like that).
Do you not think it's the caloric deficit that counts to lower bodyfat levels, which in turn will increase muscle/ab definition?
And perhaps you find it easier to stay within that needed deficit while eating 'clean', but it isn't 'technically' necessary?
Eating clean can have so many different interpretations, so that's another confounding factor.13 -
At a certain point as you stay in deficit and approach a bodyfat % where your abs show. you will need to make a decision. How badly do I want my abs to show? I have to eat "clean" 6 out of 7 days a week's to maintain. My Profile Pic was from last week.Not sure what the dislikes were for but ok no problem.
The disagrees might have something to do with stating that you need to eat 'clean' to have visible abs/muscle definition (or at least it came across like that).
Do you not think it's the caloric deficit that counts to lower bodyfat levels, which in turn will increase muscle/ab definition?
And perhaps you find it easier to stay within that needed deficit while eating 'clean', but it isn't 'technically' necessary?
Eating clean can have so many different interpretations, so that's another confounding factor.
Hey Lietchi!
Nice to see a friend on this list. As you know from being my MFP friend, I'm only stating what worked for me. The PP really is me. At almost 50 years old I can tell you I was unable to see my abs until I dropped to 15% BF. I had them, but they were obscured by a layer of belly fat. Can you get there eating processed foods and calories from breads and sugar foods. At my age I don't think I could have. In addition, as I went caloric deficient and the more I worked out, the less these types of foods could fuel my work outs. I felt weak and I was unable to keep my gains. There was insufficient protein and nutrients while working out 3 days a week and eating hypocaloric on a daily basis.
Can you do it at 20 years old. Don't know, maybe... I'm just saying I've found there is a hard way and an easier way. The easier way was to eat enough protein and recuperative foods. It sped me up by years.
I'm calling that "clean".
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Can you do it at 20 years old. Don't know, maybe... I'm just saying I've found there is a hard way and an easier way. The easier way was to eat enough protein and recuperative foods. It sped me up by years.
I'm calling that "clean".
I guess my thought here is that it is easier for most people to understand specifically what style of eating helped support your workouts (more protein, "recuperative foods" which I am assuming may stand for nutrient-dense, but I'm not sure) than the binary "clean/dirty," which can mean different things to different people and doesn't really help people make dietary changes.
I don't think that anyone is arguing that it isn't important to meet our nutritional needs. The question is: Do we have to eat "clean" in order to do that? Or do most people find that eating in a deficit (if appropriate) while meeting their nutritional needs allows them to meet their fitness and body composition goals?
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It's hard to define "clean." Make sure your nutritional needs are met while being on the deficit. That generally means not wasting calories on things that are overly sugary or fatty, or too much alcohol, because then those foods waste the calories you need for nutrient dense foods which you would use to build your muscles. Theoretically you could eat junk and still lose down enough for muscle to show if the deficit was still in place, but I think it would be much more difficult because your health will suffer if you lack proper nutrition.6
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Spot on!
Some of us aren't teenagers anymore. When I turned 40 how I ate made a huge negative impact. The wrong way... Now at almost 50 eating nutrient rich and good omega 3 fat foods with pletty of fibre had the exact opposite effect in a good way. After 40 it is a much bigger contributor. However it is still an important factor for young people too.3 -
Plenty of people who are older have visible abs and eat some bread and "sugar foods." I'm mystified by the inclusion of bread in particular, as low carb (which that seems to be implying) is certainly not required for visible abs at any age.
Obviously on the individual level there may be ways of eating that make leanness easier or harder.
I'm of course a huge fan of eating a nutrient dense diet, for health, but would not equate that with never eating bread or occasional sweets.7 -
I eat some bread and had desert last night.
But I manage the portions of such foods carefully. I know if I want to get to 9% bodyfat these will need to be even more strictly monitored. But I am satisfied if I'm not willing to make the sacrifice.1 -
I would agree that one must manage calories carefully if one wants to get extra lean (depending on overall activity level, of course). But that's different from claiming that specific foods make leanness impossible in general, which is what it seemed like you were saying.
I'm also not convinced that carbs are in a different category from other foods one might tend to overeat, like cheese. It's going to be individual. I don't really like bread much, so I don't typically overeat it, for example.13 -
I eat some bread and had desert last night.
But I manage the portions of such foods carefully. I know if I want to get to 9% bodyfat these will need to be even more strictly monitored. But I am satisfied if I'm not willing to make the sacrifice.
I think we're talking about two different things here.
In order to achieve things like 9% body fat, it generally does require a lot of attention to diet, including paying close attention to macronutrient intake and portion control. This isn't the same thing as concluding that one must eat "super clean" in order to achieve these goals.
That said, we have no indication that body fat percentage of 9% is even on OP's list of goals. They are asking about visible muscle tone, which for most people is achieved way before 9% (or the equivalent for women).
Does OP need to eat "super clean" in order to have visible muscle tone? The experience of many real life fitness enthusiasts suggests that they do not. In reality, many people who are achieving their body composition goals are eating a variety of foods, including both nutrient-rich foods and foods that are commonly stigmatized as "dirty."10 -
janejellyroll wrote: »I eat some bread and had desert last night.
But I manage the portions of such foods carefully. I know if I want to get to 9% bodyfat these will need to be even more strictly monitored. But I am satisfied if I'm not willing to make the sacrifice.
I think we're talking about two different things here.
In order to achieve things like 9% body fat, it generally does require a lot of attention to diet, including paying close attention to macronutrient intake and portion control. This isn't the same thing as concluding that one must eat "super clean" in order to achieve these goals.
That said, we have no indication that body fat percentage of 9% is even on OP's list of goals. They are asking about visible muscle tone, which for most people is achieved way before 9% (or the equivalent for women).
Does OP need to eat "super clean" in order to have visible muscle tone? The experience of many real life fitness enthusiasts suggests that they do not. In reality, many people who are achieving their body composition goals are eating a variety of foods, including both nutrient-rich foods and foods that are commonly stigmatized as "dirty."
I agree with you.
There some really good charts on bf that show relative numbers for women. Many in the mid 20s for bf show abs. Sub 20 for women can be unhealthy.
Also on top of exercise and diet, genetics does play a role.1
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