Off ketogenic to low calorie
Blythmag
Posts: 252 Member
Ok folks can you answer this and give me some hope.
I was on ketogenic for 2 weeks and lost 6 pounds, stopped and went back to calorie counting for half a pound a week, I’ve been very strict to 2010 calories , taken my one hour walk each day as I did on ketogenic however I’ve put on 2 pounds ......how can that be .
Also I wanted to switch between the diets every 2 weeks would that eventually work ? I’m trying to get from 13st 5 to 12st 7 , I got to 12st 13 after my 2 weeks ketogenic but now have gone to 13st 1 after 4 days off diet
Thoughts please ...thanks
I was on ketogenic for 2 weeks and lost 6 pounds, stopped and went back to calorie counting for half a pound a week, I’ve been very strict to 2010 calories , taken my one hour walk each day as I did on ketogenic however I’ve put on 2 pounds ......how can that be .
Also I wanted to switch between the diets every 2 weeks would that eventually work ? I’m trying to get from 13st 5 to 12st 7 , I got to 12st 13 after my 2 weeks ketogenic but now have gone to 13st 1 after 4 days off diet
Thoughts please ...thanks
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Replies
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It might be because you retain more water with carbs. I don't see the point of switching diets. Weight loss is caused by being in a calorie deficit.8
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It might be because you retain more water with carbs. I don't see the point of switching diets. Weight loss is caused by being in a calorie deficit.
Thank you , is there a timescale thst it will start to go down if I stick with calorie counting.
My theory was maintaining during my calorie counting then back on ketogenic for another 3-4 weight loss or will it just not work like that ? Was just a theory so don’t shoot me down.
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Actually the answer is very simple. Carbs cause water retention -- a lot of water retention. When you go on keto, the reduced carbs leads to water rebalancing in your body which can entail draining off quite a few pounds of water. When you transition out of keto and start eating carbs again, your body retains water again. What's important to understand is that this is just water, not fat. The best thing you can do is just take it as part of the process of changing your macros around, and ignore it.
Switching diets every two weeks sounds like it could get tiresome pretty quickly. If you enjoy doing that, then sure. But it isn't going to help you lose weight. There's only one thing that'll influence how much weight you lose: how many calories you put in your mouth, versus how many you burn. To lose weight, eat less calories, end of story, divide them up between carbs, fat, and protein however you like.
Suggest you go to the MFP Goals tab above, bang in your information and weight loss goal, and eat however many calories it tells you to eat. The rest is all optional and meaningless for weight loss: keto, non-keto, etc.13 -
My hypothesis:
Keto made you lose a lot of water weight on top of some fat loss. Switching away from keto to the other diet has caused some water weight gain because of the increase of carbs, but you probably still lost some fat.
I'll second harper16: I don't understand switching diets every two weeks. It will just make it that much harder to evaluate your weight loss because of large water weight fluctuations AND it doesn't help your weight loss effort. What do you hope to accomplish?
Choose a way of eating you can stick to (for years, if not the rest of your life) and make sure to stay in a caloric deficit, and you will lose weight.10 -
Thanks for the replies, I will stick to calorie counting then, seems good advice and I get the water thing, makes sense.
So last question, when does the water weight gain stop happening now I will stick to this? A week 2 weeks?
Thank you.3 -
Your target of 2010 for MFP, where it is coming from and how active are you with the exception of your 1 hour walk a day. I gather you're somewhere around 184lbs? What's your height?
Also, if you stick to counting calories, you may want to also start using a weight trend app or web site to help you concentrate more on your long term weight trend with some smoothing of your day to day non fat change related variations.5 -
Thanks for the replies, I will stick to calorie counting then, seems good advice and I get the water thing, makes sense.
So last question, when does the water weight gain stop happening now I will stick to this? A week 2 weeks?
Thank you.
Even if you eat keto it's still important to count calories because keto does not magically burn more calories.
And basically, water weight constantly fluctuates. It's a constant up and down. Nobody can say when it goes up or down. You're lucky in that you're a man as it's a lot worse for us women. Contributing factors are: new workouts, stress, hormone level variations, a bit more salt, a bit less potassium, a new workout, temperature, amount of movement, and about 100 other things (or 1000 if you're a woman).7 -
Thanks for the replies, I will stick to calorie counting then, seems good advice and I get the water thing, makes sense.
So last question, when does the water weight gain stop happening now I will stick to this? A week 2 weeks?
Thank you.
For me, carb related water retention takes 5 days to expunge 3/4 of it, and the rest can take another week or so.
For example, every so often I go on a fierce and ridiculous carb-related binge. A few times a year I just ... lose it and eat like an entire large pizza and then I keep eating. Yeah, I wish that would never happen but it does occasionally. Anyway, believe it or not, this has led to waking up typically 10-12 pound heavier the next morning; my record is 14.8 pounds. In that latter case, I got back to being "only" up 3 pounds on the 5th day following the binge, after four days of losing 2-3 pounds per day (in water). The final 3 pounds took another 10 days to fully drain off. At the end of all that - 15 days total - I had a whoosh and my weight reflected the following: 1.5 pounds gained on the 3 hour binge, and 4 pounds lost over the subsequent two weeks of dieting, for a net total of 2.5 pounds lost since the morning of binge day. What all this shows is that fat is added and subtracted based on calories, whereas water weight can fluctuate wildly based on carbs and greatly overshadow the fat loss.
Incidentally, sodium also causes water retention, but: (a) I find that carbs cause waaaaay more water retention than sodium, (b) sodium water retention drains off pretty quickly, a day or two at most for me, whereas carb water retention can be up to 2 weeks.
So try to be patient and let nature take its course with the water drainage. Coming off keto, you're dealing with carb related water retention, so you might be looking at 2 weeks to get truly clean data as to your weight.5 -
Thanks for the replies, I will stick to calorie counting then, seems good advice and I get the water thing, makes sense.
So last question, when does the water weight gain stop happening now I will stick to this? A week 2 weeks?
Thank you.
For me, carb related water retention takes 5 days to expunge 3/4 of it, and the rest can take another week or so.
It's quite interesting for how long the different types of water weight stick.
Salty meal (I had 30ml of soy sauce over my noodles yesterday as I used an old recipe for two and did not half that one): 1 day
Water weight gain from sitting in an office all day: the weekend
Pausing the contraceptive pill: about 2-4 days after starting again
Flights: 5-12 days, depending on duration of flight
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Thanks for the replies, I will stick to calorie counting then, seems good advice and I get the water thing, makes sense.
So last question, when does the water weight gain stop happening now I will stick to this? A week 2 weeks?
Thank you.
For me, carb related water retention takes 5 days to expunge 3/4 of it, and the rest can take another week or so.
It's quite interesting for how long the different types of water weight stick.
Salty meal (I had 30ml of soy sauce over my noodles yesterday as I used an old recipe for two and did not half that one): 1 day
Water weight gain from sitting in an office all day: the weekend
Pausing the contraceptive pill: about 2-4 days after starting again
Flights: 5-12 days, depending on duration of flight
Same deal for me with flights. It's the most persistent water retention of all, maybe even more than from eating excessive carbs. I agree, up to 12 days for a long international flight, like to Sydney. Less for a domestic flight. Weird.4 -
Thanks for the replies, I will stick to calorie counting then, seems good advice and I get the water thing, makes sense.
So last question, when does the water weight gain stop happening now I will stick to this? A week 2 weeks?
Thank you.
For me, carb related water retention takes 5 days to expunge 3/4 of it, and the rest can take another week or so.
It's quite interesting for how long the different types of water weight stick.
Salty meal (I had 30ml of soy sauce over my noodles yesterday as I used an old recipe for two and did not half that one): 1 day
Water weight gain from sitting in an office all day: the weekend
Pausing the contraceptive pill: about 2-4 days after starting again
Flights: 5-12 days, depending on duration of flight
Same deal for me with flights. It's the most persistent water retention of all, maybe even more than from eating excessive carbs. I agree, up to 12 days for a long international flight, like to Sydney. Less for a domestic flight. Weird.
Yeah, flights are so annoying!
Me, flying from Europe to central US via Seattle (don't ask). Hey, I could take those fab green hiking pants along. They are slightly tight but will fit well enough for climbing over rocks. Me, after arriving: my pants don't fit! Me on the last day: hey, my pants fit again!
I naturally eat lots of carbs, thus that's at least one thing I don't have to deal with.2 -
Be aware that MFP does not, at all, count your workouts when it estimates your initial calories. The initial calories are estimated 100% on the basis of your selected activity level and the exercise is supposed to be logged separately and give you more calories to eat if and when it takes place.
With half a lb a week it is extremely unlikely that you will see persistent unidirectional daily changes on your scale.
When I was losing at a similar rate it was extremely common to have weight ins that were even 30 days apart and in which, by scale weight, I was at a higher weight 30 days later, yet my weight TREND had moved down at the selected rate over the 30 days.
Do try to get yourself a weight trend app or web site, or use some sort of trailing average for smoothing to better see your weight trend as opposed to your scale weight. Evaluate the direction of you weight over spans of weeks, not days.
If you're close to the population means and if you're logging extremely carefully, you're likely to lose slightly faster than your selected rate... especially if you're more active at home/work than you've indicated. Your workouts are supposed to be logged in addition to your activity level.
Because workouts are often expressed as gross instead of net calories, and because they are sometimes over-estimated, most would suggest to only eat back a percentage of your workout calories starting with at least half of the workout calories and then adjusting per your review of results a few weeks later.6 -
Thanks for the replies, I will stick to calorie counting then, seems good advice and I get the water thing, makes sense.
So last question, when does the water weight gain stop happening now I will stick to this? A week 2 weeks?
Thank you.
For me, carb related water retention takes 5 days to expunge 3/4 of it, and the rest can take another week or so.
It's quite interesting for how long the different types of water weight stick.
Salty meal (I had 30ml of soy sauce over my noodles yesterday as I used an old recipe for two and did not half that one): 1 day
Water weight gain from sitting in an office all day: the weekend
Pausing the contraceptive pill: about 2-4 days after starting again
Flights: 5-12 days, depending on duration of flight
Same deal for me with flights. It's the most persistent water retention of all, maybe even more than from eating excessive carbs. I agree, up to 12 days for a long international flight, like to Sydney. Less for a domestic flight. Weird.
I always put on at least seven pounds when I fly and it usually takes at least five days to fully come off.1 -
I eat keto. Have for about 3 years. Kind of losing count though. Anyway, my body feels better as in way more energy, my bicipital tendinitis, torn tendons in wrist, and other achy things hurt less, and my migraine control is amazing! But I go off course. Every time I gain 5lbs easy. This is when I am far off course and in a “screw it” mood. Buying all the snacks and baking all the things. I stay gluten free so I can function but the carbs are out of control(and I can not control my calories when I am high carb, so many cravings) and so are my migraines, General head pain, lethargy, etc. But yet I do it. When I go back it is kind of a see saw type thing for a few weeks. Low carb-high carb-keto type cycle. I lose and gain the same 2lbs over and over. When I consistently keep my carbs below 100gm/day I don’t have the yo-yo so you could try that if the weigh flux really bothers you; you don’t have to go all the way into high carb if you don’t want to. Also remember 20gm carbs per day is extreme for keto and 50gm(or higher if you are very active) is generally fine if you have no medical conditions dictating you go lower.
Experiencing this multiple times, I have found a happy medium similar to what you are proposing. I sit really well in a routine consisting of keto week days with extra steel cut oats, higher carb keto ish baked treats and apples and oranges, and some wine on the weekends. It seems to play well with my hormonal cravings, keep me carbed for some heavier lifts early in my week(I still feel like this is mostly a mental block on my part), and just all around make keto “easier” even though I have never particularly found it hard and usually make the choice to go off plan.
You will find a plan that suits you. Whatever habits you fall in to just ensure that your calories are on par for your goals and you will lose as planned. Don’t really worry about a few lbs of water weight here and there. There are so small in the whole mess of it all.2 -
As someone who used to do keto and switched to this I honestly say you are better off picking one or the other and sticking to a caloric deficit.
Over time it will be harder and harder to get back into ketosis- it may take a week or two to even get back in it, if not longer,so cycling between the two methods isn't great/probably not sustainable.
The biggest thing is eat at a deficit- do what suits you. It doesn't work for me to be keto as we love to travel and if I cheat on keto I pay the price for a week. So now vacations were becoming a very tiring process of finding places I could eat but also Hubs could still enjoy fun/new things. Calories are easier and I can simply take a diet break and eat at maintenance when on vacation.
Just my two cents
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Thanks for the replies, I will stick to calorie counting then, seems good advice and I get the water thing, makes sense.
So last question, when does the water weight gain stop happening now I will stick to this? A week 2 weeks?
Thank you.
It doesn't "stop happening" in some absolute sense.
Your baseline water retention stabilizes at a new (slightly higher compared to keto) level. Once you're at a more-or-less consistent new carb level, carb-related water retention doesn't keep growing and growing.
Eventually, if you're losing fat behind the scenes (i.e., calorie deficit is in place), your fat loss is sufficient to drop your scale weight below that modest water weight bump, and you'll see loss on the scale again. But if you're at a calorie deficit throughout, fat loss - the thing we really care about - has continued to happen behind the scenes, you just can't see it on the scale because the water increase has hidden it.
You'll still see water weight fluctuations on top of that new baseline, just as you would've on top of your keto-level carbs in the long run. Fluctuating water weight is just how a healthy body operates, for many reasons**.
Oversimplifying, when we eat carbs, our bodies need to tie up about 3g of water for each gram of carbs, while the carbs are being metabolized. The implication is that if you're humming along at 50g carbs daily, you have a certain baseline level of water involved in processing that, around 150g (very approximate). If you switch to 150g carbs, your body will tie up around 450g water instead. As long as you stay around 150g carbs, the water needed for that will stay in a similar range (other water fluctuations may simultaneously be happening for other reasons, of course). These numberrs are not exactly what you'd see on the scale, because it's more complicated than that, but that's sort of the underlying mechanism, as I understand it.
** This would be a good read:
https://physiqonomics.com/the-weird-and-highly-annoying-world-of-scale-weight-and-fluctuations4 -
MeganD1704 wrote: »As someone who used to do keto and switched to this I honestly say you are better off picking one or the other and sticking to a caloric deficit.
Over time it will be harder and harder to get back into ketosis- it may take a week or two to even get back in it, if not longer,so cycling between the two methods isn't great/probably not sustainable.
The biggest thing is eat at a deficit- do what suits you. It doesn't work for me to be keto as we love to travel and if I cheat on keto I pay the price for a week. So now vacations were becoming a very tiring process of finding places I could eat but also Hubs could still enjoy fun/new things. Calories are easier and I can simply take a diet break and eat at maintenance when on vacation.
Just my two cents
Yea makes sense that , I've decided to stay on calorie counting using carbs4 -
MeganD1704 wrote: »As someone who used to do keto and switched to this I honestly say you are better off picking one or the other and sticking to a caloric deficit.
Over time it will be harder and harder to get back into ketosis- it may take a week or two to even get back in it, if not longer,so cycling between the two methods isn't great/probably not sustainable.
The biggest thing is eat at a deficit- do what suits you. It doesn't work for me to be keto as we love to travel and if I cheat on keto I pay the price for a week. So now vacations were becoming a very tiring process of finding places I could eat but also Hubs could still enjoy fun/new things. Calories are easier and I can simply take a diet break and eat at maintenance when on vacation.
Just my two cents
Yea makes sense that , I've decided to stay on calorie counting using carbs
Awesome! Good luck
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