Maintaining Muscle During Race Season

Jordan_Gregers wrote: »

cwolfman13 wrote: »

Pretty much any full body program is going to be 2-3 days per week and will be just fine for preserving muscle mass. But also keep in mind that preserving muscle and strength are two very different things. A lot of what you gain and/or maintain in strength is due to CNS adaptations. I did some introductory power lifting stuff years ago and greatly increased my strength...I haven't done that in awhile, but I have the same, if not more muscle mass but not as much strength as I'm simply not training to optimize strength...still strong, just not squat 350 Lbs+ strong because my CNS isn't currently adapted for that since I do more lower weight, higher rep work these days vs. low rep high weight.

That distinction is really helpful. I suppose that what I'm most worried about is losing the muscle mass, as I don't 'need' to be able to squat x lbs or bench y lbs, I just want to have more muscle and less fat. Although I enjoyed trying to hit PR's during the program, it's not my sport so ultimately I don't really care if I lose a bit of strength but maintain muscle mass.

The good news is that the training volume needed to maintain your muscle mass tends to be far lower than the training volume to build muscle in the first place.
With a high cardio volume you might find (like me) that fitting in lower body weight training becomes hard as legs are either being trained or needing recovery from that training.
That shouldn't be an issue with upper body and core work though - an option is to moderate the intensity of your leg work in the gym while having a higher intensity for upper body work.

As a cyclist (cardio but with a big resistance element) I do no leg strength training in my biggest cycling volume months or during pre-event build up.

youngmomtaz wrote: »

You have not really put on any muscle if you were eating in a deficit. As said above you were training the nervous system and muscles to work together to lift heavier things, and that is great, but you most likelyhave not built muscle, especially if you lost weight on the scale. Any program you choose from the lists noted above will help you maintain your strength. Doing anything to stimulate those muscles will help to maintain your strength as long as you are working them hard once or twice a week really. I miss my long runs! Have some good ones for those of us who fell out of habit!!

I haven’t read all the posts but generally those new to resistance training can gain muscle in a deficit. So called newbie gains.

sijomial wrote: »

Jordan_Gregers wrote: »

cwolfman13 wrote: »

Pretty much any full body program is going to be 2-3 days per week and will be just fine for preserving muscle mass. But also keep in mind that preserving muscle and strength are two very different things. A lot of what you gain and/or maintain in strength is due to CNS adaptations. I did some introductory power lifting stuff years ago and greatly increased my strength...I haven't done that in awhile, but I have the same, if not more muscle mass but not as much strength as I'm simply not training to optimize strength...still strong, just not squat 350 Lbs+ strong because my CNS isn't currently adapted for that since I do more lower weight, higher rep work these days vs. low rep high weight.

That distinction is really helpful. I suppose that what I'm most worried about is losing the muscle mass, as I don't 'need' to be able to squat x lbs or bench y lbs, I just want to have more muscle and less fat. Although I enjoyed trying to hit PR's during the program, it's not my sport so ultimately I don't really care if I lose a bit of strength but maintain muscle mass.

The good news is that the training volume needed to maintain your muscle mass tends to be far lower than the training volume to build muscle in the first place.
With a high cardio volume you might find (like me) that fitting in lower body weight training becomes hard as legs are either being trained or needing recovery from that training.
That shouldn't be an issue with upper body and core work though - an option is to moderate the intensity of your leg work in the gym while having a higher intensity for upper body work.

As a cyclist (cardio but with a big resistance element) I do no leg strength training in my biggest cycling volume months or during pre-event build up.

Since OP is a runner, I think your advice is spot on in this context. As a generality, though, in case of other readers, I'd observe that every "cardio" presents a different set of constraints.

Especially at my age and stage, I weight train little or not at all (depending on how lazy I am ), during on-water rowing season. If I do anything, it would likely be upper body push things, or more varied work around the shoulder (but avoiding certain things that overlap the rowing stresses), certainly wouldn't push progressivity on the rowing muscle groups. At my age and stage, recovery from both rowing and lifting suffer if I try to fit in a full schedule of both, and sooner or later I'll have overuse problems. (As a purely recreational athlete these days, I'm more lazy/cautious, but it's utterly common in rowing at large, including at high levels, to vary strength work significantly through the training/conditioning/competing calendar.)

I mention this because I feel like the "cardio vs. weights" discussion on the forums can get a little cartoon-y, when it comes to potential recovery/interference and timing issues. (I'm not accusing you of cartooning, @sijomial - I know you understand this.)

It matters what the "cardio" is, and it matters what the weight training is (i.e., there are times when it may not be best to do a standard full-body program, depending on goals). It matters whether the priority is the "cardio" or the strength training, from the standpoint of either fitness or aesthetics (or both). It matters what the schedule is. It matters what the training level of the individual is. Often in posts/replies, it seems like unexamined assumptions are made about many of those factors.

This is a digression from the thread - apologies, OP.

cupcakesandproteinshakes wrote: »

youngmomtaz wrote: »

You have not really put on any muscle if you were eating in a deficit. As said above you were training the nervous system and muscles to work together to lift heavier things, and that is great, but you most likelyhave not built muscle, especially if you lost weight on the scale. Any program you choose from the lists noted above will help you maintain your strength. Doing anything to stimulate those muscles will help to maintain your strength as long as you are working them hard once or twice a week really. I miss my long runs! Have some good ones for those of us who fell out of habit!!

I haven’t read all the posts but generally those new to resistance training can gain muscle in a deficit. So called newbie gains.

Oh, ok. I had understood “newbie gains” to apply to those who were in an overweight category. So that the fat burned would make up for some of the deficit, type of thing.

Jordan_Gregers wrote: »

sijomial wrote: »

The good news is that the training volume needed to maintain your muscle mass tends to be far lower than the training volume to build muscle in the first place.
With a high cardio volume you might find (like me) that fitting in lower body weight training becomes hard as legs are either being trained or needing recovery from that training.
That shouldn't be an issue with upper body and core work though - an option is to moderate the intensity of your leg work in the gym while having a higher intensity for upper body work.

As a cyclist (cardio but with a big resistance element) I do no leg strength training in my biggest cycling volume months or during pre-event build up.

Thanks for your reply!
That makes sense, it's difficult to do leg work when I'm already fatigued due to high training volume. Just curious, while you are doing your pre-event build up, do you not feel the need to do strength training to increase power and speed? Or is that done through things like high-intensity intervals, high pace runs (or the cycling equivalent) etc.? Or, do you focus your 'off season' on building that strength and then lay off during race season?

For my long distance cycling events gym leg strength isn't really significant - it might shoot you up a short hill or over a bridge a few seconds faster, or help with a sprint. But the fatigue and recovery needs simply isn't worth the trade off. If I was a sprinter then it would be different - think Chris Hoy and his barbell bending squats.....

If I'm looking to improve pure leg strength it would be in a training period before 6 to 8 week event build up. At the start of that period upper body intense training in the gym isn't a problem at all. As volume and intensity of my cycling ramps up then I need to take total fatigue into account and I might well have to dial back the strength training.

So my build up is on the bike and yes will include intervals, hill work (strength endurance not pure strength), flat speed endurance, long rides at event pace etc....