Shoulder discomfort at the bottom of pull ups

richiechowns
richiechowns Posts: 155 Member
in Fitness and Exercise
Hi,

I've recently been following the 20 pull up progression challenge so that I can prepare for RR while I'm finishing another workout programme.

The last two time I've done pull ups or negatives I have been getting a sharp pain in the side of my shoulder, the deltoid muscle. I've done the rotator cuff tests, plus multiple other test for shoulder injuries but not found any obvious failures. It also can 'give way' a little bit when pressing dumbbells overhead.

Of course I don't want to do any major damage, but it is only happening on the odd repetition. Is there anything I can do with bands or mobility work to strengthen, test or stretch it out please?

Replies

  • swirlybee
    swirlybee Posts: 497 Member
    My advice is to rest or take it super easy for a while. Don't be a hero and work through the pain. The pain you're experiencing is exactly the same thing I felt before it developed into a full blown frozen shoulder/adhesive capsulitis. The pain was right at the base of the deltoid and would also "give way" (I was doing handstands instead of shoulder presses or pullups).

    This stretch helped me the most but other rotator cuff stretches might be beneficial as well.
    Corner_Stretch_resized.jpg
  • Chieflrg
    Chieflrg Posts: 9,097 Member
    What is your training history?
    How long has this been going on?
    Is it getting better, steady, or worse?
    What was the means of load management on the challenge and current programming?

    I'm sure you can find a variation that perhaps might not be extremely specific to the pull/chin up but close enough that you wouldn't experience issues and still benefit from strength training though without knowing more info on you I wouldn't feel confident of suggesting anything certainly not stretching or mobility as they are pretty useless as far as the real issue more than likely.

    I would first look at your load management and at least get a idea if that is the issue before I continued or made a decision on moving forward.
  • sgt1372
    sgt1372 Posts: 3,997 Member
    edited June 2020
    If you have insurance that will pay for it, ask your PCP for an referral to ortho and an MRI to disagose it.

    Might be nothing but then again it might be something and if you've got the ins coverage, use it.

    That"s what you're paying the premiums for.

  • richiechowns
    richiechowns Posts: 155 Member
    Chieflrg wrote: »
    What is your training history?
    How long has this been going on?
    Is it getting better, steady, or worse?
    What was the means of load management on the challenge and current programming?

    I'm sure you can find a variation that perhaps might not be extremely specific to the pull/chin up but close enough that you wouldn't experience issues and still benefit from strength training though without knowing more info on you I wouldn't feel confident of suggesting anything certainly not stretching or mobility as they are pretty useless as far as the real issue more than likely.

    I would first look at your load management and at least get a idea if that is the issue before I continued or made a decision on moving forward.

    So I had a shoulder issue some 15 years or more ago which was started with skull crushers in the gym - I rested it then and it was fine as far as I know.

    I've since over the years done strong lifts 5x5 as well as other things, but mostly over the last 10 or so years focused on distance running, so not a lot of strength work. Now I'm trying to get stronger and have an interest in calisthenics. This is why I'm trying to get better at pull ups.

    I've also been doing T25, completed Alpha and Beta and are halfway through Gamma.

    This only started a few days ago. It doesn't hurt all the time, I can do a pull up now and it is fine, but once in say 3 reps it will shoot through, potentially due to a form issue on that particular rep..

    Not sure what you mean by the means of load management? The challenge is the 20 pull ups challenge, where you build up over 6 weeks to eventually be doing 20 pulls.

    @swirlybee thanks for the advice, I'll always listen to my body as I have with running, but to be honest there is no constant pain to work through, just the shooting pain at the side of my shoulder on the odd repetition. So not every pull up, but something cannot be right I guess.

    @sgt1372 I don't have insurance and our NHS is swamped with CV19 at the moment, I will use my work medicash to see a physio once lock down eases though.
  • TiisTitanium
    TiisTitanium Posts: 235 Member
    I agree that it is probably a good idea to see a physio to properly diagnose the issue and recommend an appropriate treatment plan.

    That being said I have experienced a very similar issue that you have described where mobility and range of motion is generally okay but there are certain points were it feels not quite right if I haven't properly engaged my scapula.. My physio described it as being scapular dyskinesia.

    I don't do volume amounts of pull ups specifically but I do a lot of calisthenic exercises involving gymnastic rings and also handstands which puts a lot of strain on shoulder mobility so part of the training session for these always involves mobility exercise and pre-hab exercises at the end of class to ensure long term shoulder health so maybe try to incorporate that in your training regime. I would try an also focus on maintaining really good form rather than focusing on busting out a set of 20 with poor form.

    The stretch shown by swirlbee is really good. Another one to try is the Cuban rotation with a light weight as that helps building up the rotator cuff muscles in a non strenuous way espeically as they are small muscles which fatigue easily..

    Hope you figure it out,
  • richiechowns
    richiechowns Posts: 155 Member
    TiisTitanium wrote: »
    I agree that it is probably a good idea to see a physio to properly diagnose the issue and recommend an appropriate treatment plan.

    That being said I have experienced a very similar issue that you have described where mobility and range of motion is generally okay but there are certain points were it feels not quite right if I haven't properly engaged my scapula.. My physio described it as being scapular dyskinesia.

    I don't do volume amounts of pull ups specifically but I do a lot of calisthenic exercises involving gymnastic rings and also handstands which puts a lot of strain on shoulder mobility so part of the training session for these always involves mobility exercise and pre-hab exercises at the end of class to ensure long term shoulder health so maybe try to incorporate that in your training regime. I would try an also focus on maintaining really good form rather than focusing on busting out a set of 20 with poor form.

    The stretch shown by swirlbee is really good. Another one to try is the Cuban rotation with a light weight as that helps building up the rotator cuff muscles in a non strenuous way espeically as they are small muscles which fatigue easily..

    Hope you figure it out,

    Thanks for the message, appreciate it, do you have any videos of youtube links to the sort of prehab/mobility exercises you do please?

    I'll not be bashing out 20 reps any time soon, it is all about slowly getting the strength to do good form reps for me, I'm not competing against anyone - incidentally, watching some crossfit stuff on TV, they all seem to do kipping, I'm not sure how they don't always get injured doing that?
  • SnifterPug
    SnifterPug Posts: 746 Member
    Have you got long resistance bands that you could use for assisted pull ups? Since it is not hurting all the time it might be some minor area that doesn't quite have the right strength, or which gets tweaked if you do something with less than perfect form. Doing really slow pull ups (5 seconds down, 5 seconds up) using assistance might a) help you ascertain what causes the discomfort, as doing things slowly pinpoints every aspect of the movement and b) might sort out the problem as you can really concentrate on form if you're not pulling your full weight.
  • richiechowns
    richiechowns Posts: 155 Member
    SnifterPug wrote: »
    Have you got long resistance bands that you could use for assisted pull ups? Since it is not hurting all the time it might be some minor area that doesn't quite have the right strength, or which gets tweaked if you do something with less than perfect form. Doing really slow pull ups (5 seconds down, 5 seconds up) using assistance might a) help you ascertain what causes the discomfort, as doing things slowly pinpoints every aspect of the movement and b) might sort out the problem as you can really concentrate on form if you're not pulling your full weight.

    Hi, yes I have a set of longer resistance bands and for a while I was using them for pull ups, before going to negatives and then full pull ups. I think maybe I unpacked my shoulders at the bottom and it tweaked something. I've tried so many tests, strengthening exercises and stretches and I don't find any obvious pain or weakness in the area to suggest a rotator cuff issue.

    I do the pull ups every other day, so tomorrow will be a test and I'll slow the reps right down and try to really stay engaged for the whole descent, the annoying thing is using a door pull up bar because you have to bend the legs, which is not the best form.
  • swirlybee
    swirlybee Posts: 497 Member
    Cuban rotation. Didn't know that there was a name for that. I'm still having problem with internal rotation and that's what my physical therapist tells me to do. As with any kind of exercise, watch your form with mobility exercises. Other parts of my body were overcompensating which I think led to my frozen shoulder. What you're describing @richiechowns is exactly what I was feeling. My judo coach kept insisting I had a rotator cuff injury but like you, I did all the test and I blew it off as not being a rotator cuff injury. It was but it wasn't. I forget which one of my doctors (primary care, or sports medicine doc, or surgeon) said that because of the weak/injured rotator cuff, everything down the chain got affected.
  • TiisTitanium
    TiisTitanium Posts: 235 Member
    This is pretty much the cuban rotation https://www.getstrong.fit/the-cuban-rotation/exercises.

    There are some great shoulder mobility drills here as well - https://gmb.io/shoulder-mobility/

    Mine isn't a rotator cuff injury either more a weakness in the muscles that sits beneath the shoulder blade but it eventually has a ripple effect across the entire shoulder which is why you work on slowly building up strength.

    If you are doing pull ups I would recommend alternating with a dip movement as well as a complementary exercise. Especially if you get into pull ups and calisthenics a muscle-up tends to be the next goal.

    Yeah I don't understand half the things cross-fittters do from a long term mobility perspective. I keep seeing people do handstand pushups in the cross fit context and it is all back to wall and busting out shoulder wrecking reps rather working on the progressions with chest to wall so you can do a freestanding handstand pushup with a healthy range of motion. I guess people just have different goals.





  • richiechowns
    richiechowns Posts: 155 Member
    @swirlybee @TiisTitanium thanks both for the advice and detailed info of your experiences.

    I used dumbbells yesterday and did the Cuban rotation, felt good, I also used a video from Jeff at Athlean X which was really good with the resistance bands.

    This morning I switched from doing pull up reps prior to T25 Gamma and did the Gamma workout first, I thought after a hard workout pulls would be impossible but I felt more mobile and warmed up and did the pull ups with no issue, really controlling the final part of the descent. I know that is not a green light things are OK, but I hope it will be a good start to staying mindful.

    I like the dips idea, I'm waiting on some rings to arrive, there was a long delay on equipment but I hope to use those when they are here, starting at a static hold at the top of a dip and then progressing from there.

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