Kayaking calories and tracking

Jthanmyfitnesspal
Jthanmyfitnesspal Posts: 3,522 Member
in Fitness and Exercise
I've avoided these discussions in the past, because there is usually no way to know the answer! This is a common problem for all-day activities (hiking, for example) where you know you need to eat back a significant number of calories, but you don't want to over-eat!

But: I wish there were a better way of estimating effort while kayaking. The type of kayaking I do is in a large group of people with varying abilities and it's as much a social outing as exercise, however, after many hours, the exercise adds up and we come back insanely hungry. The hard part is knowing how much to eat.

Estimates based on distance alone are misleading, because we are in ocean conditions where tides and wind are significant factors. Estimates based on time are also misleading because we rest a lot. Even more complicated is that when my kayak partner becomes tired, I will often assist using a tow rope.

I have found this online calculator:

https://captaincalculator.com/health/calorie/calories-burned-kayaking-calculator/

and there are several Garmin watch apps, including one called "Row SUP Kayak" on Connect IQ. I haven't tried it as 1) my watch failed and is in process of being replaced and 2) I've had mixed success with 3rd party apps in general.

https://apps.garmin.com/en-US/apps/749a7702-3ec5-42be-b9e3-731b1b13f7f6#0

Suggestions welcome!

Replies

  • heybales
    heybales Posts: 18,842 Member
    edited August 2020
    In those cases I like the principle of undercut, taking the low estimate.

    Like if hiking all day, and you get a calorie count based on distance and total weight (gotta include pack) and time, that's a low estimate because it leaves elevation changes out which require more energy than the flat the formula was using.

    But it hopefully isn't a bad deficit if you were needing to maintain. Or go for the maintain level and allow that deficit of whatever it may.

    If this was long thru-hike the fat loss would spell out you needed to eat more at least.

    So would using real numbers (no hedging lower to be on "safe" side) give a figure where the unknown ocean waves/current/towing might create a bit of deficit, but not awful?
    And unless this is a many-week outing it doesn't matter that much for 1 day?

    ETA:
    Insanely hungry makes me think of a long bike ride where no food is being eaten (or long swim), where you've got enough muscle glycogen to keep going so bonking isn't an issue, but your liver stores and therefore blood sugar are going low making you feel very hungry.
    If you have a mid-trip bit of food does it effect how hungry afterwards?
    Or was it meal time anyway?
  • Jthanmyfitnesspal
    Jthanmyfitnesspal Posts: 3,522 Member
    @heybales : Yesterday's example was that we left in the morning, stopped for a long lunch, and returned in the afternoon. Total distance was 7 miles, which isn't that far for sea kayaking (at least for me). But, we had significant tides and headwinds and I did assist another paddler for about the last two miles. I have an estimate of total moving time from my tracking app of ~3hrs. Getting calorie advice for something like that is pretty challenging!
  • Bruceapple
    Bruceapple Posts: 2,027 Member
    There is category called canoeing -white water
  • hlr1987
    hlr1987 Posts: 151 Member
    I know this is more a question about activity logging, but I would possibly approach it differently and begin by aiming to eat what you would expect was a normal amount of food without the exercise or with the lower activity burn logged than you think, rather than fall into the trap of justifying extra food because you are hungrier in that moment. Then when you've eaten and paused so your body recognises that it's eaten something, eat more if you're still hungry. Worst case you don't eat enough back that day and you are likely to feel hungry again sooner than normal for your next meal. If that's not working, and you lose or gain over time unexpectedly, (assuming this is a regular habit) you know the basic logging needs to be adjusted up or down.
    For me it kind of becomes that the extra cals are there if I need them after extra activity, so there's always pudding if I'm still hungry, but I'm not planning to eat it unless I am still hungry after my normal food. I can expect I'll want an extra snack the next day because I'm hungrier if I get too far out of my cal range.
  • mtaratoot
    mtaratoot Posts: 14,260 Member
    I paddle canoes and kayaks, and I row rafts. I use the Garmin activities "row" and "kayak." It assumes I'm rowing a shell, not a raft. It's just an estimate.

    For multi-day raft trips, I don't even record. I just make an estimate. And I make a big guess about my calorie intake. I have a "recipe" called Rafter Rations, and it's a huge pile of fat, carb, and protein calories. I log one serving on days I'm doing river trips.

    For whitewater kayaking, I just trust it senses my paddle strokes and my pulse rate. For whitewater canoeing, I still use the kayaking activity and assume it's a reasonable estimate. It's just an estimate. It seems to work ok.

    For flatwater kayaking or canoeing, or mild whitewater, all bets are off. If I'm doing a leisurely downstream trip in the Encounter, or if I'm on a lake, it burns more fuel than just standing around. But if I'm attaining upstream, it's a LOT of work. I presume that the Garmin device tracks my heart rate to assign a calorie burn rate. Or if I'm trying to plow through an upstream afternoon wind, that's harder than just drifting. I just bought a really nice flatwater canoe. It's a speed demon. It's much less work in some circumstances than my whitewater canoe. It can do amazing things. I think I'll take it out today....

    vaslrzfnontx.jpg


    Then we get to things like surfing/playing on river features in a whitewater boat. I'm not actually going anywhere, but I'm working hard. With rest in the eddy while other people play. Then it's my turn again. I have to assume the device records paddle strokes and heart rate to get an estimate.

    I don't get ravenous after paddling. But after I do SCUBA, I want to eat ALL THE FOOD. Allegedly diving is a 7 or 8 MET activity and burns a whole lot of calories. I always find that odd, but it seems to shave off the pounds when I'm doing lots of diving.

    I say just keep at it, have fun, make good estimates, and then observe. Kind of like you're already doing.
  • spyro88
    spyro88 Posts: 472 Member
    You could try a Fitbit with a heart rate monitor
  • NorthCascades
    NorthCascades Posts: 10,968 Member
    I used to love kayaking when I lived on a lake. Stopped enjoying it when I lived on the salt water. My hat's off to you paddling in the ocean!
  • heybales
    heybales Posts: 18,842 Member
    @Jthanmyfitnesspal - good point above about using HR.

    What was your calorie estimate from the Garmin based on HR?
  • Jthanmyfitnesspal
    Jthanmyfitnesspal Posts: 3,522 Member
    @heybales : the watch broke (again) and was off for replacement (again). It's back! Will try it next time with the "Row SUP Kayak" app. The kayak app wants you to buy a dongle for stroke rate, but it costs $250, so NOPE.

    Honestly, the same sort of thing happens when you do any long day of lower-level activity, like hiking with friends. Garmin does a pretty good job of figuring that one out, but not so much kayaking.
  • Jthanmyfitnesspal
    Jthanmyfitnesspal Posts: 3,522 Member
    @mtaratoot : That canoe is particularly beautiful!

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