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Education overhaul
RealWorldStrengthLLC
Posts: 552 Member
in Debate Club
Do you think that we would have less of an obesity problem in our society if our education system was overhauled to include mandatory cooking classes, nutritional science, exercise science, physical exercise (not the PE classes that exist nowbut military style PT, runs, calisthenics, lifting etc.)
This is all part of the same argument I've made many times before on teaching other real world skills such as changing oil or fixing a toilet, garbage disposal, finance management etc.
I'm 30 years, so I might be off the mark but looking back the most useful thing I ever learned in school (besides basic math, English etc.) - was my social skills. I remember spending 7-8 hours a day doing things that I have honestly never used in my life yet all the things I listed above- the fitness stuff, the rest as well...those are things I had to learn on my own and I use them all the time.
I want this discussion to focus on the fitness/health portion but I felt the rest was worth mentioning.
This is all part of the same argument I've made many times before on teaching other real world skills such as changing oil or fixing a toilet, garbage disposal, finance management etc.
I'm 30 years, so I might be off the mark but looking back the most useful thing I ever learned in school (besides basic math, English etc.) - was my social skills. I remember spending 7-8 hours a day doing things that I have honestly never used in my life yet all the things I listed above- the fitness stuff, the rest as well...those are things I had to learn on my own and I use them all the time.
I want this discussion to focus on the fitness/health portion but I felt the rest was worth mentioning.
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Replies
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I think that's more on the parents and leading by example. Learning those things in school doesn't mean much when it's not going on at home.15
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I definitely agree it should be taught at school, as well as balancing a budget, pros and cons of owning a home vs renting, how to buy and take care of a car. It would be great if these things were taught at home, but they’re not always. There should be a class called “Adulting” and these things should be included.
ETA there’s no reason we can’t be better than our parents at some things. I certainly hope I’m a better cook than my mom was. I’ll never sew as well as she did, no matter how much schooling I might get.
And that class could also include a section on how to lead your kids by example.
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cwolfman13 wrote: »I think that's more on the parents and leading by example. Learning those things in school doesn't mean much when it's not going on at home.
Yeah but the problem is there are obese parents, parents who couldn't manage a piggy bank, parents who can't change a tire, parents who think McDonald's is healthy etc.
Like my parents taught me really well with finances, but neither of them know *kitten* about nutrition and exercise and growing up I was skinny fat and then chubby because of it.
Edit, not because of it, but I definitely didn't have a dad that made controlled portions and said let's go for a bike ride.1 -
corinasue1143 wrote: »I definitely agree it should be taught at school, as well as balancing a budget, pros and cons of owning a home vs renting, how to buy and take care of a car. It would be great if these things were taught at home, but they’re not always. There should be a class called “Adulting” and these things should be included.
I'm actually going as far as to say overhaul the whole system - screw reading pride and prejudice and learning trig (those should be electives), we're going for a group run and then we're going to make steak and eggs and learn how to change a spark plug.1 -
I doubt it would make much difference. I was responsible for planning and packing lunches and cooking weeknight meals for my family from the time I was 10 until I left for college. Balanced meals were required, only rarely any packaged Hamburger Helper type stuff was allowed. PE in the schools I went to alternated between six weeks of learning a sport/ activity and six weeks of conditioning type stuff (runs, pushups, sit-ups, etc). Never did weightlifting in school though, girls weren’t allowed in weight rooms. Despite the skills and knowledge I had acquired and used far more intensely than I would have in a classroom, I still topped out at 5’6” and 230 pounds by the time I was in my mid-30’s.6
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youcantflexcardio wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »I think that's more on the parents and leading by example. Learning those things in school doesn't mean much when it's not going on at home.
Yeah but the problem is there are obese parents, parents who couldn't manage a piggy bank, parents who can't change a tire, parents who think McDonald's is healthy etc.
Like my parents taught me really well with finances, but neither of them know *kitten* about nutrition and exercise and growing up I was skinny fat and then chubby because of it.
Edit, not because of it, but I definitely didn't have a dad that made controlled portions and said let's go for a bike ride.
Most of the stuff you mention was available to me as an elective in high school. I took nutrition and I took a variety of fitness classes because I was a competitive athlete. I took shop and learned how to change oil and a spark plug, etc. I took home economics and learned how to cook and hung out with a lot of pretty girls. I also took an accounting elective.
There's only so much time in school...you can't make a bunch of electives mandatory curriculum without crowding out math, science, history, etc4 -
I only remember having to read very, very few books in school, and I never had trig or geometry, or even algebra 2. But I would have if they had been offered to me. I also would have taken a life skills class. I would have left out music, study hall, geography, history. I think those things should be offered, too. I just wasn’t interested/didn’t learn anything. I would have devoured a class in cooking and eating well, as well as personal finance classes.
Like COGypsy said. You can’t make kids learn it or like it, you can only offer it.
Side note— we had a science teacher, small physics class, farming community. Physics was hard for us, until we started talking about how it pertains to tractors and pulling plows and we all got it instantly. Same applies to math and recipes, math and sewing, etc. give them a reason to learn it and you get their attention.
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Education may help, but "more is caught than taught", so as @cwolfman13 states the root cause lies more with parental behavior and the growing detachment between schools and families.
I grew up in a small town where the best teachers made sure to make real world connections to what was taught and most worked in their fields outside of academia. Our home economics teacher was a CPA. Shop teachers were mechanics & tradesmen. Parents were commonly brought in to speak to areas of expertise. My mom came in a few times to teach first aid and nursing. My father came in to demonstrate welding.
Our PE teachers handled health and we sort of covered CICO, but nowhere near the refinement we know today. We are back in a small town atmosphere which has a lot more parental involvement. Not sure where they stand on health yet as we just moved in, but it appears to focus more on a eat less, move more philosophy - just do it gradually.0 -
CSARdiver, sounds like you had a great school experience. Wish we could all say that. Like I said, we had one science class.
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Whose education system are we talking about? The education system in the US is just barely standardized on the national level (common core) and that's a new thing. There are also plenty of people who regularly use these forums who aren't living in the US.
In general I think the US' education system needs to be changed in some major ways, but not in the ways you've mentioned. Outside of financial literacy and what not.
I can see the exercise related things you're talking about being a major issue for many students, though I do think that swimming coupled with water safety should be offered whenever possible (even if that means bussing students to a pool), though there are multiple logistical issues I can think of. The school that my two of my friends' daughter does this (though they have their own indoor pool), but there are a number of options in terms of swimming groups by gender and students who are say, allergic to chlorine (like said daughter), can get out of the requirement.2 -
I think a big issue, a double edged sword, is we've made life so convenient. We just don't have to expend calories on so many things our parents and everyone before us did. We evolved to survive scarcity, we live in a world of plenty, and a pedestrian is someone who just parked there car (as close as possible).3
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youcantflexcardio wrote: »Do you think that we would have less of an obesity problem in our society if our education system was overhauled to include mandatory cooking classes, nutritional science, exercise science, physical exercise (not the PE classes that exist nowbut military style PT, runs, calisthenics, lifting etc.)
This is all part of the same argument I've made many times before on teaching other real world skills such as changing oil or fixing a toilet, garbage disposal, finance management etc.
I'm 30 years, so I might be off the mark but looking back the most useful thing I ever learned in school (besides basic math, English etc.) - was my social skills. I remember spending 7-8 hours a day doing things that I have honestly never used in my life yet all the things I listed above- the fitness stuff, the rest as well...those are things I had to learn on my own and I use them all the time.
I want this discussion to focus on the fitness/health portion but I felt the rest was worth mentioning.
It sounds good in theory, but think it fails in our politically correct/polarized world. If you teach nutrition that included consuming animal products, do you have vegetarian/vegan groups coming out protesting? On finance, do you teach a Dave Ramsey, no debt other than a mortgage or something else?1 -
corinasue1143 wrote: »CSARdiver, sounds like you had a great school experience. Wish we could all say that. Like I said, we had one science class.
W
One of those things you can only see in hindsight. I hated school until I went to college and talked to other people and what a miserable time they had by comparison.
One of my gen ed courses as an undergrad was Communications 101, but instead of just teaching the material our professor and assistants used each module to make sure people knew the basics - changing oil, paying bills, managing a budget, basic home repair, etc. Every group had to teach the class how to do something - make a presentation and a demonstration.2 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »youcantflexcardio wrote: »Do you think that we would have less of an obesity problem in our society if our education system was overhauled to include mandatory cooking classes, nutritional science, exercise science, physical exercise (not the PE classes that exist nowbut military style PT, runs, calisthenics, lifting etc.)
This is all part of the same argument I've made many times before on teaching other real world skills such as changing oil or fixing a toilet, garbage disposal, finance management etc.
I'm 30 years, so I might be off the mark but looking back the most useful thing I ever learned in school (besides basic math, English etc.) - was my social skills. I remember spending 7-8 hours a day doing things that I have honestly never used in my life yet all the things I listed above- the fitness stuff, the rest as well...those are things I had to learn on my own and I use them all the time.
I want this discussion to focus on the fitness/health portion but I felt the rest was worth mentioning.
It sounds good in theory, but think it fails in our politically correct/polarized world. If you teach nutrition that included consuming animal products, do you have vegetarian/vegan groups coming out protesting? On finance, do you teach a Dave Ramsey, no debt other than a mortgage or something else?
I think the more pressing issue would be accommodating major food allergies and intolerances. There are also other food related issues that would come up as well (ex. food choices made on the basis of religion as well as the vegetarian and vegan stuff that you mentioned), but my major concern would be about accommodating students who for health reasons can't eat and/or prepare XYZ ingredients.
That said, presumably there are schools that are already dealing with this given that cooking is taught at various schools around the world.1 -
I have been in education for 30 years. All this information is available to students in multiple curriculums. Even in high school, food and nutrition is by far our most popular option for kids (more than half our students elect to take it). Phys. ed and biology also touch on micro-nutrients, food journals, and fitness plans. .
Finances and budgeting are also available in essential mathematics, applied mathematics even in middle years classes units on financial math are part of everyones studies. I always see posts on facebook similar to this thread. Why don't schools teach kids about lifeskills, the reality is they do!
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youcantflexcardio wrote: »corinasue1143 wrote: »I definitely agree it should be taught at school, as well as balancing a budget, pros and cons of owning a home vs renting, how to buy and take care of a car. It would be great if these things were taught at home, but they’re not always. There should be a class called “Adulting” and these things should be included.
I'm actually going as far as to say overhaul the whole system - screw reading pride and prejudice and learning trig (those should be electives), we're going for a group run and then we're going to make steak and eggs and learn how to change a spark plug.
There's something so incredibly depressing to me about the proposal that we should decide to ditch the entire traditional concept of education and instead just focus on basic skills to maintain life. I don't believe we need schools if all they're going to be offering is instructions on how to cook eggs and execute basic mechanical tasks.8 -
I think you could expand the criteria in health class enough to cover the essentials which, to me, are understanding how the scale works and CICO. If I had a better understanding of the scale I would not have gotten so frustrated and ultimately believed myths. If I had it planted in my brain that as my activity changed/slowed I needed to be careful about how much I was eating I might have avoided some of my weight gain.
Most kids are learning skills from demonstration videos so it might be more important to teach kids how to evaluate informative ones from misleading ones.1 -
A radical change that could be interesting would be... removing PE classes completely and instead having it so kids have to bring in attestations that they do sports in an organized setting outside of school (municipal sports teams, swim teams, etc...).
It would teach children that physical activity is sometimes you have to find time for outside of work (school, for them) and encourage them to seek out activities that they enjoy.
Please don't. There's already too many college students that don't know trig, mathematical and scientific literacy will be increasingly important in the job market and it's a lot easier to learn practical skills on your own than theory.youcantflexcardio wrote: »(...) screw reading pride and prejudice and learning trig (those should be electives), we're going for a group run and then we're going to make steak and eggs and learn how to change a spark plug.4 -
It starts at home. Normally, if parents are obese, so are the children. The kids think it's ok because Mom and Dad do it.2
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janejellyroll wrote: »youcantflexcardio wrote: »corinasue1143 wrote: »I definitely agree it should be taught at school, as well as balancing a budget, pros and cons of owning a home vs renting, how to buy and take care of a car. It would be great if these things were taught at home, but they’re not always. There should be a class called “Adulting” and these things should be included.
I'm actually going as far as to say overhaul the whole system - screw reading pride and prejudice and learning trig (those should be electives), we're going for a group run and then we're going to make steak and eggs and learn how to change a spark plug.
There's something so incredibly depressing to me about the proposal that we should decide to ditch the entire traditional concept of education and instead just focus on basic skills to maintain life. I don't believe we need schools if all they're going to be offering is instructions on how to cook eggs and execute basic mechanical tasks.
I don't think @youcantflexcardio was saying ditch the traditional concept of education, just put in a few requirements for life skills.0 -
It starts at home. Normally, if parents are obese, so are the children. The kids think it's ok because Mom and Dad do it.
I doubt that the problem is the kids thing obesity is okay because of their parents... at least not for long. It is the habits they may think are normal and okay. The same habits the parents may at times struggle to break are the habits the kids are learning to mimic. It is the difference between cause and short term effect (food pleasure) and cause and long term effect (weight gain) that seems to be a struggle point. If the habit is pleasurable that makes it seem right and good. It is living for right now instead of living for the future. This is not an isolated problem and it is not contained to food habits.
You can't rely on the parents until that 95 percent failure to lose and sustain it reverses significantly. If the parents do not know how to manage their weight they can't possible teach their kids.5 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »youcantflexcardio wrote: »corinasue1143 wrote: »I definitely agree it should be taught at school, as well as balancing a budget, pros and cons of owning a home vs renting, how to buy and take care of a car. It would be great if these things were taught at home, but they’re not always. There should be a class called “Adulting” and these things should be included.
I'm actually going as far as to say overhaul the whole system - screw reading pride and prejudice and learning trig (those should be electives), we're going for a group run and then we're going to make steak and eggs and learn how to change a spark plug.
There's something so incredibly depressing to me about the proposal that we should decide to ditch the entire traditional concept of education and instead just focus on basic skills to maintain life. I don't believe we need schools if all they're going to be offering is instructions on how to cook eggs and execute basic mechanical tasks.
I don't think @youcantflexcardio was saying ditch the traditional concept of education, just put in a few requirements for life skills.
If you're making traditional subjects like reading, literature, and math purely elective, that's a major shift in focus from our traditional public school focus of attempting to ensure that students have the same academic foundation.
Speaking from a US perspective, this has always been the ideal. We haven't always achieved it, but I don't agree that we should give it up to teach egg cookery and go for group runs.6 -
I guess my question would be why now? Kids used to learn these things that the OP is pushing outside of school. What happened? Family meals don't exist anymore. Society has changed and that's the problem. The schools can't fill in all the gaps.2
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It starts at home. Normally, if parents are obese, so are the children. The kids think it's ok because Mom and Dad do it.
I doubt that the problem is the kids thing obesity is okay because of their parents... at least not for long. It is the habits they may think are normal and okay. The same habits the parents may at times struggle to break are the habits the kids are learning to mimic. It is the difference between cause and short term effect (food pleasure) and cause and long term effect (weight gain) that seems to be a struggle point. If the habit is pleasurable that makes it seem right and good. It is living for right now instead of living for the future. This is not an isolated problem and it is not contained to food habits.
You can't rely on the parents until that 95 percent failure to lose and sustain it reverses significantly. If the parents do not know how to manage their weight they can't possible teach their kids.
Exactly, habits. Kids learn from the parents. If a parent has unhealthy habits, the kids will learn those habits.2 -
snowflake954 wrote: »I guess my question would be why now? Kids used to learn these things that the OP is pushing outside of school. What happened? Family meals don't exist anymore. Society has changed and that's the problem. The schools can't fill in all the gaps.
Well, parents used to have the time. Middle and upper class moms and a lot of working class moms stayed home. Their preschool kids got the important basic civilization from someone who considered it her job to get him ready to go to school. She had time to make meals from scratch, garden, and preserve the food she'd grown. It was possible for a man to support a wife and family on the salary he'd make as a high school graduate. And he had time when he got off work to do woodworking, save money by changing his own oil, and put on new brakes himself. And because the kids were around, they learned. No one ever sat me down and taught me how to make jam or can it. I can do it because I spent evenings and weekends and summer days gardening beside my parents and learning how to home-can foods safely.
But when both partners in the marriage work eight hours, with an hour or hour and a half commute added on... when kids have two hours of homework after school, plus the various extra classes and sports they need to do to have a "well-rounded" college application.... when housework and homemaking and the emotional labor of the family is squeezed in wherever anyone has time to do a half-kittened job of it.... there's no time to learn those things. And no time to learn things like how to handle frustration when a tool breaks or something doesn't go right, or how to get enjoyment out of ordinary hard work.
I'm not saying women need to get out of the working world. Not at all. I am saying that we should pay the workers of the world enough to support the family on, make jobs flexible so that parents can combine paid work with the work of raising future taxpayers if they want to, and make it possible for a parent to stay home as needed with small children without being punished for it by Social Security or by losing their health insurance. And, of course, all children should be wanted and desired by their parents, and there should be a way for people to learn how to parent without repeating the toxic or abusive patterns of the previous generation.
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AlexandraFindsHerself1971 wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »I guess my question would be why now? Kids used to learn these things that the OP is pushing outside of school. What happened? Family meals don't exist anymore. Society has changed and that's the problem. The schools can't fill in all the gaps.
Well, parents used to have the time. Middle and upper class moms and a lot of working class moms stayed home. Their preschool kids got the important basic civilization from someone who considered it her job to get him ready to go to school. She had time to make meals from scratch, garden, and preserve the food she'd grown. It was possible for a man to support a wife and family on the salary he'd make as a high school graduate. And he had time when he got off work to do woodworking, save money by changing his own oil, and put on new brakes himself. And because the kids were around, they learned. No one ever sat me down and taught me how to make jam or can it. I can do it because I spent evenings and weekends and summer days gardening beside my parents and learning how to home-can foods safely.
But when both partners in the marriage work eight hours, with an hour or hour and a half commute added on... when kids have two hours of homework after school, plus the various extra classes and sports they need to do to have a "well-rounded" college application.... when housework and homemaking and the emotional labor of the family is squeezed in wherever anyone has time to do a half-kittened job of it.... there's no time to learn those things. And no time to learn things like how to handle frustration when a tool breaks or something doesn't go right, or how to get enjoyment out of ordinary hard work.
I'm not saying women need to get out of the working world. Not at all. I am saying that we should pay the workers of the world enough to support the family on, make jobs flexible so that parents can combine paid work with the work of raising future taxpayers if they want to, and make it possible for a parent to stay home as needed with small children without being punished for it by Social Security or by losing their health insurance. And, of course, all children should be wanted and desired by their parents, and there should be a way for people to learn how to parent without repeating the toxic or abusive patterns of the previous generation.
Exactly--society has changed.0 -
Remember Michelle Obama's school lunch revision to get the kids healthy? And the kids threw away the food and wouldn't eat it? And what do you think they were eating at home? If one has time to go out to eat, they can make their meals (or like some of us did/do, cook a week's worth of dinners/lunches on Sunday & freeze).
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I think we’re overlooking one important factor that plays into obesity - emotional responses to food/eating. There needs to be a lot more of a focus on cognitive behavioural changes in the way people interact and “use” food.
Teaching people what to eat isn’t the issue - many, many people know what to eat but the emotional draw of comforting themselves with food that is bad for them is overwhelming. I’m not going to go so far as to say it’s an addiction, but people’s relationship with food certainly mimics it sometimes.5 -
janejellyroll wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »youcantflexcardio wrote: »corinasue1143 wrote: »I definitely agree it should be taught at school, as well as balancing a budget, pros and cons of owning a home vs renting, how to buy and take care of a car. It would be great if these things were taught at home, but they’re not always. There should be a class called “Adulting” and these things should be included.
I'm actually going as far as to say overhaul the whole system - screw reading pride and prejudice and learning trig (those should be electives), we're going for a group run and then we're going to make steak and eggs and learn how to change a spark plug.
There's something so incredibly depressing to me about the proposal that we should decide to ditch the entire traditional concept of education and instead just focus on basic skills to maintain life. I don't believe we need schools if all they're going to be offering is instructions on how to cook eggs and execute basic mechanical tasks.
I don't think @youcantflexcardio was saying ditch the traditional concept of education, just put in a few requirements for life skills.
If you're making traditional subjects like reading, literature, and math purely elective, that's a major shift in focus from our traditional public school focus of attempting to ensure that students have the same academic foundation.
Speaking from a US perspective, this has always been the ideal. We haven't always achieved it, but I don't agree that we should give it up to teach egg cookery and go for group runs.
No not what I propose. I'm saying some exposure to "life skills" in addition to the "traditional" curriculum. Our kid's HS had mandatory personal finance, health, cooking and "shop". Each was a quarter during the freshman year. Over 95% of the students from the school go to college so the life skills classes didn't have a negative impact on their education.
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Off-topic, but what you're describing was actually very rare in human history.AlexandraFindsHerself1971 wrote: »Well, parents used to have the time. Middle and upper class moms and a lot of working class moms stayed home. Their preschool kids got the important basic civilization from someone who considered it her job to get him ready to go to school. She had time to make meals from scratch, garden, and preserve the food she'd grown. It was possible for a man to support a wife and family on the salary he'd make as a high school graduate. (...)
Until the mid-20th century, having an able-bodied adult member of the household that didn't contribute to its income was a luxury that only the upper classes, and maybe a part of the middle class, could afford... which wasn't a lot of people. In fact, until the mid-19th century, most families needed older children to contribute as well...7
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