Keto Lifestyle but Can't Get Into Ketosis
Replies
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@kshama2001 I believe that, with all the various body types and metabolisms, we likely digest differently and our metabolisms react differently. When I was younger, I felt little to no effect from carbs such as rice, potatoes and beans, but I can no longer say the same. It may be because of my size, my age or my metabolism, but if I can change the latter, perhaps my tolerance for these carbs and others may improve. It's somewhat akin to being allergic to certain foods while other folks are not affected at all by that same food.0
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You can do that with a regular calorie deficit. Keto is an PROGRAM CHOICE. It's NOT the only way to burn fat. And boosting energy comes with many variables. One of them is increasing testoterone levels and while that may happen with keto, it ALSO DOES WITH EXERCISE and adequate sleep.Yes, I am aware of that L1zardQueen but my intent is to burn fat and lose the weight while boosting energy.
What nutritionists are you speaking with? I've NEVER met one that stated calorie counting wasn't important. And a REGISTERED DIETICIAN would actually be a better choice to listen to since they actually have to get a degree, where a nutritionist can take an online course in a day and get certified without really even studying.Perhaps posting here was a bad idea, since my questions are more related to Keto. Interestingly, when I have spoken with nutritionists, they balk at mention of calorie counting so determining a proper path can be difficult.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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I can likely promise you the main effect you're dealing with carbs is mostly from NOT BURNING THEM OFF and consumption. It is so normal that when younger people tended to eat less because they were either caught up with friends, schooling, likely more physical activity, etc. Almost for just about everyone, that all stopped when they got out of school or college then took on the real world. It's NOT uncommon here in the USA. It's why 65% and more of all adults in the USA are overweight or obese. We're one of the fattest industrialized nations in the world with the best technology and access to gyms nonetheless. But we also have the largest portions served in restaurants, fast foods, sell in bulk foods, and easy accesss to all of these as well. What Americans lack is discipline when it comes to food consumption and calories, hence the issue with being overweight/obese.@kshama2001 I believe that, with all the various body types and metabolisms, we likely digest differently and our metabolisms react differently. When I was younger, I felt little to no effect from carbs such as rice, potatoes and beans, but I can no longer say the same. It may be because of my size, my age or my metabolism, but if I can change the latter, perhaps my tolerance for these carbs and others may improve. It's somewhat akin to being allergic to certain foods while other folks are not affected at all by that same food.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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Curiosity question. If the goal is to lose weight, would it not be better to NOT eat the exercise cals?
Answering an earlier question you asked in response to my initial feedback -not usually.
You may have noticed that the maximum setting is to lose 2lb a week. Even that's only recommended for people with a lot to lose so be aware that, at some point in the future, you should slow your rate down. There's a graphic, somewhere on this site, that indicates how much is 'reasonable' to lose per week, depending on how much you have left to lose. MFP calculates your maintenance cals at your current weight*, deducts a number (depending on what rate you selected to lose at (it deducts 500 cals for 1lb a week)) and comes up with the number that you should be eating. Depending on how much exercise you do, that additional deficit could be quite large. If you don't eat your exercise calories, you're effectively trying to lose faster than your chosen goal per week, potentially faster than the suggested max of 2lb per week.
You've been given 1700 cals to eat. If you do an intensive workout and burn 300 cals that you don't eat back, you're actually only eating a net of 1400 cals a day. You run the risk of under-eating and depriving your body of necessary macros and nutrients. Also, you're less likely to stick to it long term and risk either finding yourself hungry, bingeing and wiping out a fair amount of your hard work or causing muscle damage.
Far better to eat your exercise calories so that your weight loss is (or should be) at the rate that you selected. You're much more likely to continue along the path.
*MFP doesn't auto-adjust, even if you regularly add your current weight to the Check-In screen. Every so often, perhaps every 10lb lost, go back to the Guided Set Up screen and re-click Save. It'll recalculate based on your current weight and will drop the number of cals you need.4 -
To add to my above comments, read the answers to the "Is it safe to lose 2lb a week" post asked by Rocio12.2
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Yes, I am aware of that L1zardQueen but my intent is to burn fat and lose the weight while boosting energy. Perhaps posting here was a bad idea, since my questions are more related to Keto. Interestingly, when I have spoken with nutritionists, they balk at mention of calorie counting so determining a proper path can be difficult.
If you are in a caloric deficit you will burn fat3 -
Maybe post on Bulletproof. It may be on FB. I just started there. I am doing IF as close as I can get to it, with leaning towards Keto at least part of the day. Sometimes the scale does not go down, but I literally can look in the mirror and swear I see shrinking some days. I did measure yesterday and confirmed I have been losing in inches. Now I am more strict and eating relatively the same things each day. The weight is going down more quickly. Little to no exercise lately, but have plans to get back into it. I follow a low inflammatory regime most of the time and take many supplements, some support that. Nutrient dense, lots of water, potassium important, drink 1-2 Bulletproof coffees , lower sodium, greens, lean protein, grass fed protein powder, white rice, healthy fats, sweet potatoes. Organic grass fed chicken. I find a lot of ingredients in foods are corn, gluten, dairy, legumes, nightshades. For me this slows the process. I also follow Dr's Amy Myers approach as much as possible, a basic diet. I can branch out more on her program and probably will be ingesting more sodium when at goal weight. Maybe some of these things can help you. I do weigh and since most of the foods are the same lately it is getting effortless. I need that for now to get this done. 54 pounds down and 12-22 to go. Not sure where I am stopping. I am about 5'4" and try to eat at 1400 with little exercise. It is more like 1500 with exercise. It will probably decrease as I continue to lose. I am a bit older than you. Started at 201. Bulletproof website and Dave Aspry's book helpful. So far the urine stips seem to work in the am when I am fasting and only having the Bulletproof coffee with C8 oil and ghee and cinnamon. The rest of the day I don't bother checking and I tried that and wasn't in ketosis. I probably forgot something. Just ask.0
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@kshama2001 I believe that, with all the various body types and metabolisms, we likely digest differently and our metabolisms react differently. When I was younger, I felt little to no effect from carbs such as rice, potatoes and beans, but I can no longer say the same. It may be because of my size, my age or my metabolism, but if I can change the latter, perhaps my tolerance for these carbs and others may improve. It's somewhat akin to being allergic to certain foods while other folks are not affected at all by that same food.
Have you been tested for insulin resistance?0 -
What nutritionists are you speaking with? I've NEVER met one that stated calorie counting wasn't important. And a REGISTERED DIETICIAN would actually be a better choice to listen to since they actually have to get a degree, where a nutritionist can take an online course in a day and get certified without really even studying.
Qualifications/what nutritionist means varies by location, but more to the point many RDs seem to be down on calorie counting as not sustainable or bad for people prone to eating disorders. I disagree with them, but it's a thing--Abbey Sharp on YouTube (who is an actual RD) is an example.
On the other hand, much as people slam doctors and what they have to say about dieting across the board, mine was really pro MFP as an approach.3 -
Strudders67 wrote: »*MFP doesn't auto-adjust, even if you regularly add your current weight to the Check-In screen. Every so often, perhaps every 10lb lost, go back to the Guided Set Up screen and re-click Save. It'll recalculate based on your current weight and will drop the number of cals you need.
I wondered about that. It was all very welcome info. thx much.
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What nutritionists are you speaking with? I've NEVER met one that stated calorie counting wasn't important. And a REGISTERED DIETICIAN would actually be a better choice to listen to since they actually have to get a degree, where a nutritionist can take an online course in a day and get certified without really even studying.
Qualifications/what nutritionist means varies by location, but more to the point many RDs seem to be down on calorie counting as not sustainable or bad for people prone to eating disorders. I disagree with them, but it's a thing--Abbey Sharp on YouTube (who is an actual RD) is an example.
On the other hand, much as people slam doctors and what they have to say about dieting across the board, mine was really pro MFP as an approach.
I misspoke. it was a REGISTERED DIETICIAN to whom my family doctor recommended me. I was also going to go down the path of gastric bypass at one point, and the dietitian there also was adamant about not paying attention to calories, but more about the nutrition.
Bottom line is that it can be all very confusing considering the various views on it all. I still maintain that we are all unique and no one solution will be the right solution for everyone but I enjoy reading all the feedback here, and can see some common notions being applied so I'll start there.4 -
What nutritionists are you speaking with? I've NEVER met one that stated calorie counting wasn't important. And a REGISTERED DIETICIAN would actually be a better choice to listen to since they actually have to get a degree, where a nutritionist can take an online course in a day and get certified without really even studying.
Qualifications/what nutritionist means varies by location, but more to the point many RDs seem to be down on calorie counting as not sustainable or bad for people prone to eating disorders. I disagree with them, but it's a thing--Abbey Sharp on YouTube (who is an actual RD) is an example.
On the other hand, much as people slam doctors and what they have to say about dieting across the board, mine was really pro MFP as an approach.
I misspoke. it was a REGISTERED DIETICIAN to whom my family doctor recommended me. I was also going to go down the path of gastric bypass at one point, and the dietitian there also was adamant about not paying attention to calories, but more about the nutrition.
Bottom line is that it can be all very confusing considering the various views on it all. I still maintain that we are all unique and no one solution will be the right solution for everyone but I enjoy reading all the feedback here, and can see some common notions being applied so I'll start there.
I can understand where the RD was coming from, especially if you have a personality like my wife. She tends to obsess over numbers and can get discouraged by them. Instead, i have been working on implementing better habits and using low calorie food replacements to still incorporate foods she loves. She has also started to workout which is big since whe has had a ton of health issues this past decade. By using this method, she is down 18 lbs.
It may not be as consistent as calorie counting, but if people can learn to lose weight without it, its a plus.4 -
What nutritionists are you speaking with? I've NEVER met one that stated calorie counting wasn't important. And a REGISTERED DIETICIAN would actually be a better choice to listen to since they actually have to get a degree, where a nutritionist can take an online course in a day and get certified without really even studying.
Qualifications/what nutritionist means varies by location, but more to the point many RDs seem to be down on calorie counting as not sustainable or bad for people prone to eating disorders. I disagree with them, but it's a thing--Abbey Sharp on YouTube (who is an actual RD) is an example.
On the other hand, much as people slam doctors and what they have to say about dieting across the board, mine was really pro MFP as an approach.
I misspoke. it was a REGISTERED DIETICIAN to whom my family doctor recommended me. I was also going to go down the path of gastric bypass at one point, and the dietitian there also was adamant about not paying attention to calories, but more about the nutrition.
Bottom line is that it can be all very confusing considering the various views on it all. I still maintain that we are all unique and no one solution will be the right solution for everyone but I enjoy reading all the feedback here, and can see some common notions being applied so I'll start there.
It has been my experience that when I DO focus on nutrition and make sure to get enough protein, fat and 4-7 servings of whole fruit and vegetables I do tend to feel more satisfied in general. It's also true that people who are obese can lose weight really easily by just watching their portions and nutrition. So I can see where the RD was coming from about calorie-counting.
Both ways would/could/do work. I have to do both because I need to SEE the macros and the fiber and the micros - that's what forced me into eating a more nutritious plan.
Could I have done it with just mindfully eating better quality food? Maybe...but I liked the numbers and the limits.3 -
I have been good with following the Keto diet and maintaining carbs below 22g per day, exercising (cycling, ellytical, walking) about 3 times per week @ 40 minutes each time, and managed to lose 22 lbs in the first 3 weeks, but haven't lost any in the last 2 1/2 weeks. I have a total of 100 more lbs to lose, so I would not expect to plateau this soon. I never felt like I had gotten into ketosis (no typical side effects) so I got the Ketostyx to test but apparently I am only showing trace amounts of ketones. What am I doing wrong?
On another note, the carbs that are tracked in the food diary, are they net carbs? because the recipes are not broken down as net carbs, so my counts are typically showing total carbs, so as far as net carbs go, I am consuming considerably less than the 22g.
Any thoughts would be appreciated.
I've glanced over the thread, but I'll just answer this fresh to the best of my ability.
First off, Trace ketones are generally not a bad sign. In fact if your drinking a lot of water, you are essentially diluting your urine and effectively lowering your testable ketones. Exercise also plays a similar factor but in reverse, generally meaning after a exercise session your likely to show a higher reading as your body would of actively been burning more fat producing ketones to get you through your workout. So trace ketones isn't bad, in fact if your drinking 12-16 or more cups of day you'll be hard pressed to ever register beyond the 2 level (assuming you strips have 5 levels of positivity). I know this for fact, as my wife who has trouble drinking water, always test 1 to 2 levels higher then me, where as I have no trouble drinking 4-5 liters of water per day.
(I should also add, if you want to measure true Ketone levels, the only real way to do that is with a Blood Ketone Measure device. I recently ordered the Keto-Mojo Glucose and Ketone blood Monitor, I'm excited to use it just a means of keeping me focused on my renewed journey)
Not everyone will agree, but I have found when on a Ketogenic diet it is generally much easier to eat well under your basal metabolic rate when grossly over weight. For a few simple Reasons. When your in ketosis, your body is actively burning your own body fat for energy day in and day out. When your excessively Obese, you simply have an extreme amount of energy that is essentially easily captured by your Body to use as energy. Generally I would say listen to your body and how you feel. So weather your eating 1900 a day or 1500 a day, as long as your getting your proper vitamins and minerals and you feel good I wouldn't worry about it to much. Eat if you get hungry etc.
But what you eat is important. On a full Keto diet, it is recommended a calorie ratio of 70% Fat 20% Protein and 5% Carbs with 5% to play with give or take. Make sure you measuring properly, it's amazing how much calories is in Peanut Butter, or Butter for that matter, some people don't realize that a Teaspoon isn't supposed to be heaped (essentially creating a tablespoon worth calories, where some people count it as just a Teaspoon). Salad dressing is another one to easily mis-judge. Sure you can have full cream on Keto, but that doesn't mean you can use much if you want to maintain any kind of calorie restriction. etc.
Some people make the mistake of starting to restrict Fat... and to do that, and still maintain carbs under 20, then you end up eating more Protein, unfortunately if your start to raise your protein levels while reducing fat, you will signal to your body to actually breakdown protein. Which something best to avoid.
But as mentioned, 2.5 half weeks is to soon to worry about anything. It is easily possible that your body has adjusted somewhat to low carb and either through slight changes in food items or just because you could easily of added back a healthy amount of water weight which could be hiding some fat loss.
Generally if you are accurately counting your Calories, and you are for sure eating below your Basal Metabolic Rate, ir is safe to say you are definitely burning Fat. In fact since you are exercising, it may be that your are slowly adding new muscle mass which has a greater muscle mass density then Fat. This had happened to me extensively where I packed an extreme amount of muscle actually gaining weight wile reducing fat at different moments of my early low carb journey.
Anyway, your doing great! Keep it up and don't loose faith.
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Poobah1972 wrote: »I have been good with following the Keto diet and maintaining carbs below 22g per day, exercising (cycling, ellytical, walking) about 3 times per week @ 40 minutes each time, and managed to lose 22 lbs in the first 3 weeks, but haven't lost any in the last 2 1/2 weeks. I have a total of 100 more lbs to lose, so I would not expect to plateau this soon. I never felt like I had gotten into ketosis (no typical side effects) so I got the Ketostyx to test but apparently I am only showing trace amounts of ketones. What am I doing wrong?
On another note, the carbs that are tracked in the food diary, are they net carbs? because the recipes are not broken down as net carbs, so my counts are typically showing total carbs, so as far as net carbs go, I am consuming considerably less than the 22g.
Any thoughts would be appreciated.
I've glanced over the thread, but I'll just answer this fresh to the best of my ability.
First of Trace ketones are generally not a bad sign. In fact if your drinking a lot of water, you are essentially diluting your urine and effectively lowering your testable ketones. Exercise also plays a similar factor but in reverse, generally meaning after a exercise session your likely to show a higher reading as your body would of actively been burning more fat producing ketones to get you through your workout. So trace ketones isn't bad, in fact if your drinking 12-16 or more cups of day you'll be hard pressed to ever register beyond the 2 level (assuming you strips have 5 levels of positivity). I know this for fact, as my wife who has trouble drinking water, always test 1 to 2 levels higher then me, where as I have no trouble drinking 4-5 liters of water per day.
Not everyone will agree, but I have found when on a Ketogenic diet it is generally much easier to eat well under your basal metabolic rate when grossly over weight. For a few simple Reasons. When your in ketosis, your body is actively burning your own body fat for energy day in and day out. When your excessively Obese, you simply have an extreme amount of energy that is essentially easily captured by your Body to use as energy. Generally I would say listen to your body and how you feel. So weather your eating 1900 a day or 1500 a day, as long as your getting your proper vitamins and minerals and you feel good I wouldn't worry about it to much. Eat if you get hungry etc.
But what you eat is important. On a full Keto diet, it is recommended a calorie ratio of 70% Fat 20% Protein and 5% Carbs with 5% to play with give or take. Make sure you measuring properly, it's amazing how much calories is in Peanut Butter, or Butter for that matter, some people don't realize that Teaspoon isn't supposed to be heaped (essentially creating a tablespoon worth calories, where some people count it as just a Teaspoon). Salad dressing is another one to easily mis-judge. Sure you can cream on Keto, but that doesn't mean you can use much if you want to maintain any kind of calorie restriction. etc.
Some people make the mistake of starting to restrict Fat... and to do that, and still maintain carbs under 20, then you end up eating more Protein, unfortunately if your start to raise your protein levels while reducing fat, you will signal to your body to actually breakdown protein. Which something best to avoid.
But as mentioned, 2.5 half weeks is to soon to worry about anything. It is easily possible that your body has adjusted somewhat to low carb and either through slight changes in food items or just because you could easily of added back a healthy amount of water weight which could be hiding some fat loss.
Generally if you are accurately counting your Calories, and you are for sure eating below your Basal Metabolic Rate, ir is safe to say you are definitely burning Fat. In fact since you are exercising, it may be that your are slowly adding new muscle mass which has a greater muscle mass density then Fat. This had happened to me extensively where I packed an extreme amount of muscle actually gaining weight wile reducing fat at different moments of my early low carb journey.
Anyway, your doing great! Keep it up and don't loose faith.
A 'technicality' but I don't think basal metabolic rate means what you think it means. Losing weight = eating less than your total calorie expenditure. BMR is just how many calories you burn totally at rest.2 -
What nutritionists are you speaking with? I've NEVER met one that stated calorie counting wasn't important. And a REGISTERED DIETICIAN would actually be a better choice to listen to since they actually have to get a degree, where a nutritionist can take an online course in a day and get certified without really even studying.
Qualifications/what nutritionist means varies by location, but more to the point many RDs seem to be down on calorie counting as not sustainable or bad for people prone to eating disorders. I disagree with them, but it's a thing--Abbey Sharp on YouTube (who is an actual RD) is an example.
On the other hand, much as people slam doctors and what they have to say about dieting across the board, mine was really pro MFP as an approach.
I misspoke. it was a REGISTERED DIETICIAN to whom my family doctor recommended me. I was also going to go down the path of gastric bypass at one point, and the dietitian there also was adamant about not paying attention to calories, but more about the nutrition.
Yeah, I think many people use nutritionist generically in a way that includes RDs too, and it's not true that nutritionists have no education to be licensed anyway -- maybe some places, but not where I live, anyway.
I think (from what I've seen) that SOME RDs are convinced that people won't be able to effectively count cals at all, and certainly not long term, and skeptical--in a way that I think is unfair, to be honest--that people will use it as a learning experience and also be sensible about nutrition and food choices.
On the other hand, I'm often surprised at how little many people know about how to build a nutritious diet or the cals that different foods have (as well as the nutrients), so I think learning about nutrition is sensible too.
But personally I ate a nutritious diet when gaining, just too much, so the idea that if one just learns to eat vegetables and fruit and sufficient protein and doesn't eat when not hungry=weight loss is, IMO, at the least overstated. I also think many people are leery of calorie counting or even focusing on losing weight as leading to eating disorders, and for most of us I don't think that is an issue (some are prone to eating disorders, but calorie counting is certainly not the only food intervention that would trigger them).Bottom line is that it can be all very confusing considering the various views on it all. I still maintain that we are all unique and no one solution will be the right solution for everyone but I enjoy reading all the feedback here, and can see some common notions being applied so I'll start there.
I think the dieting world makes it more confusing than it needs to be and that it is very simple, which doesn't mean easy and doesn't mean it's not individual.
Basically, eat fewer cals than you burn, and if you want to do more for health focus on nutrition and increasing activity (and sleep and stress). The trick is HOW to sustainably eat fewer cals than you burn, and there it's about knowing yourself and individual. For me it was important to understand how and why I was overeating -- I learned that basically it works better for me if I eat mindfully (duh) and don't snack between meals. My preferred diet was a modification of my pre weight loss way of eating -- mostly cooking from scratch using whole or minimally processed foods, 3 meals, no snacking, but a dessert of some sort (might be fruit or cheese) shortly after dinner is okay IF I have the cals. My meals focused on a source of protein, lots of veg at all meals, and then a moderate serving of starchy carbs or fruit at many but not all meals. I made sure not to overdo the added fat, but then I also focused on taste, so I was happy to have roasted chicken with skin on, bone in vs only skinless, boneless chicken breast. It was moderately low carb, but more important, it worked with and started with slight modifications to how I already liked to eat and was a way of eating that was satiating for me and made me happy and allowed me to enjoy my meals.
I think if for you that is keto, that's great--just remember that for weight loss, calories; for health, nutrition (adequate protein, fiber, vegetables, healthy fats is what I'd prioritize); and otherwise feel free to try things and pay attention to how you feel and don't let everyone telling you what you should or should not do (the diet world confusion) distract you from those simple (but not always easy) things.2 -
Poobah1972 wrote: »I have been good with following the Keto diet and maintaining carbs below 22g per day, exercising (cycling, ellytical, walking) about 3 times per week @ 40 minutes each time, and managed to lose 22 lbs in the first 3 weeks, but haven't lost any in the last 2 1/2 weeks. I have a total of 100 more lbs to lose, so I would not expect to plateau this soon. I never felt like I had gotten into ketosis (no typical side effects) so I got the Ketostyx to test but apparently I am only showing trace amounts of ketones. What am I doing wrong?
On another note, the carbs that are tracked in the food diary, are they net carbs? because the recipes are not broken down as net carbs, so my counts are typically showing total carbs, so as far as net carbs go, I am consuming considerably less than the 22g.
Any thoughts would be appreciated.
I've glanced over the thread, but I'll just answer this fresh to the best of my ability.
First off, Trace ketones are generally not a bad sign. In fact if your drinking a lot of water, you are essentially diluting your urine and effectively lowering your testable ketones. Exercise also plays a similar factor but in reverse, generally meaning after a exercise session your likely to show a higher reading as your body would of actively been burning more fat producing ketones to get you through your workout. So trace ketones isn't bad, in fact if your drinking 12-16 or more cups of day you'll be hard pressed to ever register beyond the 2 level (assuming you strips have 5 levels of positivity). I know this for fact, as my wife who has trouble drinking water, always test 1 to 2 levels higher then me, where as I have no trouble drinking 4-5 liters of water per day.
(I should also add, if you want to measure true Ketone levels, the only real way to do that is with a Blood Ketone Measure device. I recently ordered the Keto-Mojo Glucose and Ketone blood Monitor, I'm excited to use it just a means of keeping me focused on my renewed journey)
Not everyone will agree, but I have found when on a Ketogenic diet it is generally much easier to eat well under your basal metabolic rate when grossly over weight. For a few simple Reasons. When your in ketosis, your body is actively burning your own body fat for energy day in and day out. When your excessively Obese, you simply have an extreme amount of energy that is essentially easily captured by your Body to use as energy. Generally I would say listen to your body and how you feel. So weather your eating 1900 a day or 1500 a day, as long as your getting your proper vitamins and minerals and you feel good I wouldn't worry about it to much. Eat if you get hungry etc.
But what you eat is important. On a full Keto diet, it is recommended a calorie ratio of 70% Fat 20% Protein and 5% Carbs with 5% to play with give or take. Make sure you measuring properly, it's amazing how much calories is in Peanut Butter, or Butter for that matter, some people don't realize that a Teaspoon isn't supposed to be heaped (essentially creating a tablespoon worth calories, where some people count it as just a Teaspoon). Salad dressing is another one to easily mis-judge. Sure you can have full cream on Keto, but that doesn't mean you can use much if you want to maintain any kind of calorie restriction. etc.
Some people make the mistake of starting to restrict Fat... and to do that, and still maintain carbs under 20, then you end up eating more Protein, unfortunately if your start to raise your protein levels while reducing fat, you will signal to your body to actually breakdown protein. Which something best to avoid.
But as mentioned, 2.5 half weeks is to soon to worry about anything. It is easily possible that your body has adjusted somewhat to low carb and either through slight changes in food items or just because you could easily of added back a healthy amount of water weight which could be hiding some fat loss.
Generally if you are accurately counting your Calories, and you are for sure eating below your Basal Metabolic Rate, ir is safe to say you are definitely burning Fat. In fact since you are exercising, it may be that your are slowly adding new muscle mass which has a greater muscle mass density then Fat. This had happened to me extensively where I packed an extreme amount of muscle actually gaining weight wile reducing fat at different moments of my early low carb journey.
Anyway, your doing great! Keep it up and don't loose faith.
A few corrections. A modified ketogenic diet, the one popular today, is 20-30% protein, so fat would be 60-70%. If you are eating below your Total Daily Energy Expenditure (not your BMR), you will be burning fat. Eating below BMR might be a bad thing depending how many normal daily activity you have. Third, as it relates to protein, the process you are talking about is gluconogensis(GNG); this is the process when your body coverts amino acids and fatty acids into glucose to feed your central nervous system and red blood cells with the added glucose needed for use. This is generally a 60/40 split, respectively. If you are using amino acids for GNG, you aren't using them to rebuild muscle. And lastly, most the literature doesn't support building muscle on a ketogenic diet. At best, ketone production may be muscle sparring. And while i don't doubt some newbies can gain some muscle on keto, but the importance of protein, a smaller deficit and a lifting routine will become even more import.2 -
Carb Manager is a good site for Keto also, it's operates similar to this one too.2
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A 'technicality' but I don't think basal metabolic rate means what you think it means. Losing weight = eating less than your total calorie expenditure. BMR is just how many calories you burn totally at rest.
You and psuLemon are correct... It's been awhile, and yes I should of said BMR plus calories associated with activity. BMR is your basic calorie burn while doing nothing, including sleeping over a 24 hour period generally based on your Weight, age, and sex. I do understand the difference, I just wrote to much to quickly and skipped over some important bits. I also don't mind hitting 30% protein on occasion either. Personally I prefer 65-70% fat, 20-25% protein, but that's just my preference.
As for muscle gain, on Keto... Study or not, I know it can be done as I have done it at rather astounding levels. Although as I progressed into higher tier's of fitness and strength I did re-adjust my macro's considerably. But again this more likely to occur earlier on in your journey when fat stores are still plentiful.
Regardless, corrections appreciated.
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Poobah1972 wrote: »A 'technicality' but I don't think basal metabolic rate means what you think it means. Losing weight = eating less than your total calorie expenditure. BMR is just how many calories you burn totally at rest.
You and psuLemon are correct... It's been awhile, and yes I should of said BMR plus calories associated with activity. BMR is your basic calorie burn while doing nothing, including sleeping over a 24 hour period generally based on your Weight, age, and sex. I do understand the difference, I just wrote to much to quickly and skipped over some important bits. I also don't mind hitting 30% protein on occasion either. Personally I prefer 65-70% fat, 20-25% protein, but that's just my preference.
As for muscle gain, on Keto... Study or not, I know it can be done as I have done it at rather astounding levels. Although as I progressed into higher tier's of fitness and strength I did re-adjust my macro's considerably. But again this more likely to occur earlier on in your journey when fat stores are still plentiful.
Regardless, corrections appreciated.
Out of personal curiosity, how did you measure muscle gains? And what kind of lifting program where you running? And would you mind sharing your stats and your training history?
Typically, younger males, who are newer to lifting, and running higher protein will have a greater ability to gain some mass. But there are a ton of variables like training age, deficit size, protein levels, etc... But from a statistical perspective carb based diets > keto diets for muscle gains.
And i generally cut with Keto. Have even experimented with CKD and TKD. I was running PHAT and have switched into a PPL program.1 -
Out of personal curiosity, how did you measure muscle gains? And what kind of lifting program where you running? And would you mind sharing your stats and your training history?
Typically, younger males, who are newer to lifting, and running higher protein will have a greater ability to gain some mass. But there are a ton of variables like training age, deficit size, protein levels, etc... But from a statistical perspective carb based diets > keto diets for muscle gains.
And i generally cut with Keto. Have even experimented with CKD and TKD. I was running PHAT and have switched into a PPL program.
This might be the most basic measure of muscle gain, but I find it a good marker.
I started at 500lbs I went down to 260.... When I started my bicep size was 21", when I finished my Bicep size was 21". In fact from the very beginning to the very end, my bicep size remained 21". SO there is that.
Granted when I started on Keto back in 2003ish... And for the first 6 months I did nothing but strict Keto and Walking and eventually jogging (And running). I lost a lot of weight during this time, made a new punch in my belt every other week.
At the 6 month mark I continued the cardio every morning at 5am, but added strength training 3 days a week on rig I bought (Powertech If I remember correctly) that allowed me to workout from home (as I wasn't yet comfortable to take it to the Gym. I did legs once a week, and mixed up Arms, Backs, Triceps etc over the other 2. During this time I did alot of research, but still had a lot to learn. Mostly I was working 3 sets of 10 (to failure), but I probably started to cycle rep counts a bit but not as much as I would in the future. This lasted another 6 months and I was pretty much back in 36" pants from 60"+. And I remained eating lowcarb.
I then started going to the Gym... 4 or 3 days a week. I learned a lot more about building workouts mixed things up, kept a journal. Always pushed for more and always to failure. Over the course of month or so I would work 3 sets of 12 to failure and would drop 2 reps adding more weight (to failure) all the way down to 3 sets of 6, and on somethings like Squats, Deadlifts and Bench press I would go down to 3 or 4 reps and try to knock off a set of 1. Max Free bench of 380 pounds at one point. I even got the point, where i was using some pretty mean Elastics, Chains etc on the bar to shock different parts of my muscle to break help break through to higher and higher weights. My Legs and leg Presses were pretty insane, and eventually I had to move to another Gym, as I scared people (when I put much more then the recommended amount of weight on the machine by every which way I could muster.)
After some months, I started adding on a lot of core exercises that really helped strengthen everything else.
But it should be stated when I started going to the Gym, I began to add complex carbs and leaner meats with reduced fats... So at this point I was no longer Low Carb.
As for the details 15-16 years is a long time ago, and I'm just started to try and get back to normal. Over the last 14 years I've slowly put all the way back on. This time I don't intend to go so extreme... That and I literally hurt all the time. lol
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I should add... I was 29 or 30 years old when I started. 6ft tall. Without trying to dig up my Macro's I believe I was eating +200 grams of protein at the later stages of my development. Plus I grew to absolutely hate Endless Brocolli, Chicken Breast and Tuna (Which I pretty much ate a lot of every day.)
Also During my first six months of home workouts, I modified my diet slightly to include some complex carbs in the morning. As I found I had way to much uric acid in my blood from the breakdown of proteins in my body. And even just adding half a whole grain bagel in the morning was enough to greatly reduce a few gout outbreaks. But I think it helped reduce catabolic state, I was putting myself into with the amount of cardio and muscle training I was subjecting myself too. But I remained low carb @ 40-60 carbs a day.
Once I moved to the gym I scaled up my carb intake with Complex carbs before each workout, and ate lean meats directly afterwards with a pure sugary drink to spike insulin levels.
Again though this is all a long time ago, so memory is very tricky... I remember definately loved Dempsters Multi Grain bagels though, (Plain no butter and down the whole before I left for the gym).0 -
Poobah1972 wrote: »I should add... I was 29 or 30 years old when I started. 6ft tall.
At that age, I had been working in very physical jobs from horse farms to landscaping and loved it, so I was fit and lean and feeling good at 6 ft and 150 lbs but since then, 20 years at my desk job got the better of me, and I have put on quite a lot of weight.
My thing is that I love food but don't enjoy cooking. When I get bored, I eat but that is also an ex-smoker trigger as well - hand to mouth. Canadian winters in Ontario are hard because, unlike many here, I don't enjoy gym training, however when spring comes, you can't get me inside on a decent-weather day since you'll find me active in walking, cycling, gardening, building, etc, etc.
What I am trying to focus on is getting rid of the pain in my knees (one was injured in an accident but the weight makes it worse), possibly eliminating the need for CPAP, and reducing my blood sugar level since I was found to be pre-diabetic so these goals help me to bite the bullet and do what I need to do to achieve them.
PS - I still like broccoli and chicken. Never liked fish anyway.
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Poobah1972 wrote: »I should add... I was 29 or 30 years old when I started. 6ft tall.
At that age, I had been working in very physical jobs from horse farms to landscaping and loved it, so I was fit and lean and feeling good at 6 ft and 150 lbs but since then, 20 years at my desk job got the better of me, and I have put on quite a lot of weight.
My thing is that I love food but don't enjoy cooking. When I get bored, I eat but that is also an ex-smoker trigger as well - hand to mouth. Canadian winters in Ontario are hard because, unlike many here, I don't enjoy gym training, however when spring comes, you can't get me inside on a decent-weather day since you'll find me active in walking, cycling, gardening, building, etc, etc.
What I am trying to focus on is getting rid of the pain in my knees (one was injured in an accident but the weight makes it worse), possibly eliminating the need for CPAP, and reducing my blood sugar level since I was found to be pre-diabetic so these goals help me to bite the bullet and do what I need to do to achieve them.
PS - I still like broccoli and chicken. Never liked fish anyway.
Ahah... I'm In Sudbury Ontario... Winter not my cup of tea either, and I don't do Snow Mobiles.
But from he perspective of Back and Knee pain... For myself even after just 3- 5 days of switching to low carb all of it just goes away (at least for me). However I haven't been in an accident, or suffered injury. But Prior to starting Keto at the beginning the year, I couldn't lay down for more then 5 hours at night, and every night and morning was brutal to get out of bed (lower back, tail bone and sides constantly killing me until i got out of bed and stood up for a half an hour in the shower, and some days it wouldn't get much better). The same as true back in 2003... Low carb definitely depletes glycogen stores both in the liver and in your muscle mass... as well as having a general anti-inflammatory reaction in the body. The loss of pain suddenly is a very common theme for many who start a Low carb diet. So if that's not happening for you at all, it probably is helping at some level, and as the weight comes off it's bound to improve for you.
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Ya, that was almost immediate but not completely gone in the one knee. It has no cushionPoobah1972 wrote: »Low carb definitely depletes glycogen stores both in the liver and in your muscle mass... as well as having a general anti-inflammatory reaction in the body. The loss of pain suddenly is a very common theme for many who start a Low carb diet. So if that's not happening for you at all, it probably is helping at some level, and as the weight comes off it's bound to improve for you.
. Sounds like getting back on track will sort a lot for you too. gl
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“ I am fairly sure that much of that was water weight. At 120 lbs overweight, 22 lbs in 3 weeks doesn't surprise me at all. I would expect that to reduce to 1 or 2 lbs a week after that.”
That would be like 40 cups of water? 😬0 -
Poobah1972 wrote: »Out of personal curiosity, how did you measure muscle gains? And what kind of lifting program where you running? And would you mind sharing your stats and your training history?
Typically, younger males, who are newer to lifting, and running higher protein will have a greater ability to gain some mass. But there are a ton of variables like training age, deficit size, protein levels, etc... But from a statistical perspective carb based diets > keto diets for muscle gains.
And i generally cut with Keto. Have even experimented with CKD and TKD. I was running PHAT and have switched into a PPL program.
This might be the most basic measure of muscle gain, but I find it a good marker.
I started at 500lbs I went down to 260.... When I started my bicep size was 21", when I finished my Bicep size was 21". In fact from the very beginning to the very end, my bicep size remained 21". SO there is that.
Granted when I started on Keto back in 2003ish... And for the first 6 months I did nothing but strict Keto and Walking and eventually jogging (And running). I lost a lot of weight during this time, made a new punch in my belt every other week.
At the 6 month mark I continued the cardio every morning at 5am, but added strength training 3 days a week on rig I bought (Powertech If I remember correctly) that allowed me to workout from home (as I wasn't yet comfortable to take it to the Gym. I did legs once a week, and mixed up Arms, Backs, Triceps etc over the other 2. During this time I did alot of research, but still had a lot to learn. Mostly I was working 3 sets of 10 (to failure), but I probably started to cycle rep counts a bit but not as much as I would in the future. This lasted another 6 months and I was pretty much back in 36" pants from 60"+. And I remained eating lowcarb.
I then started going to the Gym... 4 or 3 days a week. I learned a lot more about building workouts mixed things up, kept a journal. Always pushed for more and always to failure. Over the course of month or so I would work 3 sets of 12 to failure and would drop 2 reps adding more weight (to failure) all the way down to 3 sets of 6, and on somethings like Squats, Deadlifts and Bench press I would go down to 3 or 4 reps and try to knock off a set of 1. Max Free bench of 380 pounds at one point. I even got the point, where i was using some pretty mean Elastics, Chains etc on the bar to shock different parts of my muscle to break help break through to higher and higher weights. My Legs and leg Presses were pretty insane, and eventually I had to move to another Gym, as I scared people (when I put much more then the recommended amount of weight on the machine by every which way I could muster.)
After some months, I started adding on a lot of core exercises that really helped strengthen everything else.
But it should be stated when I started going to the Gym, I began to add complex carbs and leaner meats with reduced fats... So at this point I was no longer Low Carb.
As for the details 15-16 years is a long time ago, and I'm just started to try and get back to normal. Over the last 14 years I've slowly put all the way back on. This time I don't intend to go so extreme... That and I literally hurt all the time. lol
First congrats on that weight loss. But yeah, you meet almost every prime condition to gain muscle and lose a good amount of fat. You were a younger male, who was morbidly obese, ate high protein and newer to training. So yes, in your situation than its quite possible to gain muscle even on keto. That would deminish or become much more difficult as you got into a normal bmi or if you would only started off as overweight.
I am all for keto diets, and in fact, generally follow one for fat loss, but i fully recognize carbs anti-catabolic and protein sparring properties. Unfortunately, when i try to get real lean, keto satietes me and carbs make me hungry. And when i say carbs, i am talking oatmeal, higher protein pasta, higher gi fruits (apples), potatoes, and whole grain breads. These were my staples to go from 220 down to 173, and keto got me from 173 to 164. Now just working on the few last vanity lbs.2 -
Congrats on your achievements as well.I am all for keto diets, and in fact, generally follow one for fat loss, but i fully recognize carbs anti-catabolic and protein sparring properties. Unfortunately, when i try to get real lean, keto satiates me and carbs make me hungry. And when i say carbs, i am talking oatmeal, higher protein pasta, higher gi fruits (apples), potatoes, and whole grain breads. These were my staples to go from 220 down to 173, and keto got me from 173 to 164. Now just working on the few last vanity lbs.1 -
I enjoyed reading all of this. I find it easier to gain muscle on the keto diet than other eating styles but that’s me. Another way to test ketones besides urine and blood strips is a breath meter. I ordered one recently. You can get them as low as $30. I tend to do 30% protein 60-65% fat and 5-10% carbs. I have both fitness equipment at home and a gym membership. I was accidentally on the equivalent of the keto diet by being in ketosis following a different diet altogether as well as excessive exercising beyond most people’s levels. I had to really think how was that possible since I learned the keto diet in the past and had no interest from what I did learn about it. I really hated butter and cut as much fat from my meat as possible when I was encouraged to try it. 5 years later I’m in ketosis and had to think hard how was that possible. Now under most people’s exercise routines how I ate then it isn’t possible to be in ketosis. My extreme professional athletic routine made it possible. I studied the keto diet more thoroughly after I managed to be in ketosis by total accident.1
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