Welcome to Debate Club! Please be aware that this is a space for respectful debate, and that your ideas will be challenged here. Please remember to critique the argument, not the author.
Hyperthyroidism in cats and in people?
Options
Antiopelle
Posts: 1,184 Member
in Debate Club
My cat has been diagnosed with hyperthyroidism and I found it very interesting to see the impact of hormones on his general behavior and weight.
For years, he has been the neighborhood tomcat getting extra treats everywhere (some people often would jokingly say that I needed to feed him), although eating like a bodybuilder. He would get wet food morning and evening, get the table scraps and have as much kibble as wanted. And still he was thin as a rail, probably because he was always walking around, checking "his" patch. After needing stitches after a few fights with other cats (aggression also is a sign of being hyper apparently), the vet got him diagnosed.
One week after his meds, he changed into a sleepy Garfield-type kitty who would just get up to have some snacks and he gained 1 kg in one month - that's 25% of his body weight ! After a second check he clearly was having too little hormones and we had to finetune his meds. Now, it seems that he is doing ok at a right balance.
I found it interesting to see as there is no guilt or stigma involved with an animal. He doesn't feel guilty for being lazy; he doesn't know if he is having enough exercise to be fit and in optimal shape; he doesn't eat out of boredom. And still, just a change in one hormone has had such a massive impact on his demeanor, his activity level and his weight.
I can only imagine that it is the same effect with people: even if CICO still stands (I'm a firm believer), I also think that it is much harder to get active or eat within limits if your hormones aren't balanced very well.
Any thoughts?
For years, he has been the neighborhood tomcat getting extra treats everywhere (some people often would jokingly say that I needed to feed him), although eating like a bodybuilder. He would get wet food morning and evening, get the table scraps and have as much kibble as wanted. And still he was thin as a rail, probably because he was always walking around, checking "his" patch. After needing stitches after a few fights with other cats (aggression also is a sign of being hyper apparently), the vet got him diagnosed.
One week after his meds, he changed into a sleepy Garfield-type kitty who would just get up to have some snacks and he gained 1 kg in one month - that's 25% of his body weight ! After a second check he clearly was having too little hormones and we had to finetune his meds. Now, it seems that he is doing ok at a right balance.
I found it interesting to see as there is no guilt or stigma involved with an animal. He doesn't feel guilty for being lazy; he doesn't know if he is having enough exercise to be fit and in optimal shape; he doesn't eat out of boredom. And still, just a change in one hormone has had such a massive impact on his demeanor, his activity level and his weight.
I can only imagine that it is the same effect with people: even if CICO still stands (I'm a firm believer), I also think that it is much harder to get active or eat within limits if your hormones aren't balanced very well.
Any thoughts?
6
Replies
-
Not from personal experience, but I'm sure correct treatment of thyroid issues is important. It's not so much the slightly lower metabolism that 'gets' people who are hypothyroid, but the fatigue that makes everything much more of a struggle. You're right, nothing to do with laziness, just hormones that are out of whack!3
-
CICO always stands.
It's a physical property of the universe - energy is neither created nor destroyed.
But thyroid issues, and other hormonal imbalances, will always highlight the problem with CICO: it doesn't matter, because we don't always have control over any part of the equation.
Someone who is formally hypothyroid will have low energy, low BMR, will get fat etc. For any given person there's an amount hypothyroid that will make them overweight, if it doesn't harm them in other ways first. By extension sensitivity (or insensitivity) to thyroid hormone even within the "normal" range may play a role in how capable people are of controlling their weight: that 'laziness' could be just a characteristic of how their body is programmed!
Of course, this doesn't matter too, because in the end, all you can do is control (to the best of your ability) what goes into your mouth and how active you are on any given day!
But certainly we should be like the cat: unaware of the judgements of others, free of guilt and choosing to live our best lives (which includes eating an appropriate amount and doing plenty of exercise).2 -
I can only comment with regard to dogs, as one of my former dogs was hypothyroid.
At the time I had two dogs, both overweight, although the younger male's weight was far more of an issue as he'd gained a third of his body weight in a year. Hypothyroidism wasn't really the top suspect however as he didn't have the typical lethargy, he was as energetic as ever. The vet wanted me to try diet first, with both dogs coming into the clinic monthly to weigh in and check their progress. I diligently measured food and limited treats. After three months the older female had lost 7 pounds, which put her at the proper weight. The younger male had lost only ONE pound. The diet was supposed to go on for 6 months but at that point because of his poor weight loss I asked to have his thyroid levels checked immediately. He was at less than 1/4 of the optimal level, and went on quite a high dose of synthetic thyroid. He remained on that dose for the rest of his life.
So, yeah, CICO. Apparently hypothyroidism can have quite a dramatic effect on the CO part of that equation. Both dogs got (as near as I could figure out anyway) the appropriate calorie allotment for weight loss, the same amount of exercise as in walks, although he probably got slightly more in the yard because he would run to fetch a ball for far longer than she would, yet his loss was dramatically less until his thyroid was corrected.4 -
Yes. CICO.
Every time.
But, as this thread points out, low thyroid throws a spanner in that.
I was first diagnosed with low thyroid at 18. I was given three months of synthroid and that kicked my thyroid back into action.
I remained active and rail thin for a bit over a decade. And then the thyroid went south again.
I knew it from the way I was feeling. And my old school doctor back then refused to give me any thyroid medication until I had gained 50 lbs.
I’d lose 30, the thyroid would go south again, I’d gain 50, lather rinse repeat until I was probably over 300 - I don’t know because I stopped weighing myself.
That old kitten finally retired and I got a new GP. She was MUCH better and I worked off most of the weight. Got down to about 175ish? Then some unrelated stuff happened and I began to gain again.
Also that doctor moved and I got another new one that I had to fight for an increase in thyroid meds again. Not as badly. And with advice from an endocrinologist she now listens when I say I feel like I need an adjustment.
So. At this point I can’t blame my weight on my thyroid but it definitely was a factor in the past.
Let me tell you all who have not experienced it what it felt like for me:
Fingernails peeling up off their beds.
Lethargy like I hadn’t slept in days.
Thinking was nearly impossible.
It felt like I was living life surrounded by thick, heavy foam.
The slightest movement was like lifting 20 pounds. Reading a book or watching TV was mentally impossible. Even feeding myself was a supreme chore.
Which, I hope you can see, even if it is indeed CICO, when you feel like you’re actually a rock, immovable and thick as stone? It’s very very hard to make any carbs actually go out….7 -
Thread title says hyperthyroid - that would be too much, not too little ( hypo)
Not sure if typo or misuse of word? Or other posters misread, went off on tangent?
Hyperthyroid in humans does not cause weight gain, quite the reverse.
People get fidgety, anxious, can't stay still, can't sleep- over-activity.2 -
paperpudding wrote: »Thread title says hyperthyroid - that would be too much, not too little ( hypo)
Not sure if typo or misuse of word? Or other posters misread, went off on tangent?
Hyperthyroid in humans does not cause weight gain, quite the reverse.
People get fidgety, anxious, can't stay still, can't sleep- over-activity.
Yes the thread title is hyperthyroid, but at the end of OP’s post is this: “ I can only imagine that it is the same effect with people: even if CICO still stands (I'm a firm believer), I also think that it is much harder to get active or eat within limits if your hormones aren't balanced very well.” which I think was interpreted as expanding beyond hyperthyroidism into other hormonal issues that could affect someone’s appetite and/or energy levels.
Also noting that the cat’s thyroid was over corrected at first, which led the cat to be lethargic. A feeling I can definitely understand when it comes to thyroid issues.
3 -
paperpudding wrote: »Thread title says hyperthyroid - that would be too much, not too little ( hypo)
Not sure if typo or misuse of word? Or other posters misread, went off on tangent?
Hyperthyroid in humans does not cause weight gain, quite the reverse.
People get fidgety, anxious, can't stay still, can't sleep- over-activity.
I didn't misread, the post talked about the cat getting 'lazy' due to the meds being off, similar to people who are hypothyroid.1 -
MargaretYakoda wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »Thread title says hyperthyroid - that would be too much, not too little ( hypo)
Not sure if typo or misuse of word? Or other posters misread, went off on tangent?
Hyperthyroid in humans does not cause weight gain, quite the reverse.
People get fidgety, anxious, can't stay still, can't sleep- over-activity.
Yes the thread title is hyperthyroid, but at the end of OP’s post is this: “ I can only imagine that it is the same effect with people: even if CICO still stands (I'm a firm believer), I also think that it is much harder to get active or eat within limits if your hormones aren't balanced very well.” which I think was interpreted as expanding beyond hyperthyroidism into other hormonal issues that could affect someone’s appetite and/or energy levels.
Also noting that the cat’s thyroid was over corrected at first, which led the cat to be lethargic. A feeling I can definitely understand when it comes to thyroid issues.
Yes, indeed this is exactly what I meant @MargaretYakoda. My cat went from hyper to hypo in a very short timespan due to overmedication and the effects on all aspects of his health were tremendous.
I'm still in doubt as if the extra exercise when hyper could account for all the weightloss, of if there is some higher burn because of the hormones.
I'm pained to read that you had to fight so hard to get your meds right and I hope you will be alright now.1 -
Antiopelle wrote: »MargaretYakoda wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »Thread title says hyperthyroid - that would be too much, not too little ( hypo)
Not sure if typo or misuse of word? Or other posters misread, went off on tangent?
Hyperthyroid in humans does not cause weight gain, quite the reverse.
People get fidgety, anxious, can't stay still, can't sleep- over-activity.
Yes the thread title is hyperthyroid, but at the end of OP’s post is this: “ I can only imagine that it is the same effect with people: even if CICO still stands (I'm a firm believer), I also think that it is much harder to get active or eat within limits if your hormones aren't balanced very well.” which I think was interpreted as expanding beyond hyperthyroidism into other hormonal issues that could affect someone’s appetite and/or energy levels.
Also noting that the cat’s thyroid was over corrected at first, which led the cat to be lethargic. A feeling I can definitely understand when it comes to thyroid issues.
Yes, indeed this is exactly what I meant @MargaretYakoda. My cat went from hyper to hypo in a very short timespan due to overmedication and the effects on all aspects of his health were tremendous.
I'm still in doubt as if the extra exercise when hyper could account for all the weightloss, of if there is some higher burn because of the hormones.
I'm pained to read that you had to fight so hard to get your meds right and I hope you will be alright now.
Thank you.
That’s not even my most horrific doctor experience. It’s third or fourth down the list. And yes, right now my GP is very responsive when I say my thyroid is off.
I have similar questions in my mind about my two cats. Different genetics. Same diet originally. But one had to be changed to something much more tempting because he doesn’t want to eat much. He’s relatively healthy. He just doesn’t care about food. Our other boy will eat anything. This is not an exaggeration. We even have to hide the chicken’s food from him. He stalks any potential food source, and needs to be closely watched or he will eat everything in sight. Everything.
There is something fundamentally different about those cats. And whatever it is, it’s not a moral failing, or a difference in trauma experience or anything like that.1 -
Hyper can cause weight gain, the systems are over stimulated. The two conditions hyper and hypo can and do have overlapping symptoms for totally different reasons. This thyroid thing is so COMPLICATED, probably were full endocrine testing done on the original pets, were the status of principal predisposing glands, (pituitary, adrenals, hypothalamus and others) within the endocrine system identified, along with understanding the animals t3 availability, knowing the amount of reverse and addressed the processes of weight loss would have been simpler for all concerned. Its a relief pets can't be "guilt tripped" into feeling guilty when all they are able to do is to behave as their system dictates.
Years ago before I understood the Thyroid thing better,(still a work in progress) I had a cat, a very, very old cat who I was told was hyperthyroid. The vets answer was to remove her thyroid and then not provide medication!!! She still made it to 23! Poor animals are subjected to the same or similar indifference to their symptoms here in the UK, probably internationally as their humans.1 -
As far as I know, the vet did all the tests, also a T3 count and now already 3 bloodwork tests also to check his renal stats, as she explained that a thyroid problem might mask a renal one. I feel lucky that my tomcat is now in tiptop shape again just 7 weeks after his diagnosis. Next test is scheduled in 3 months.
The alternative that was presented is not a surgery, but a injection with radioactive iodine, which would fix the issue once and for all. However, that would mean 1 week in a special room at the hospital + 6 weeks solitary at home with as little cuddles as possible - because of the radioactivity. As my cat is already 14 years old and very much an outdoor cat, we've decided to opt for the oral treatment instead.2 -
So my cats were all overweight at one point (I had 6). A couple of them were flat out obese. People think fat animals are cute; including myself. That's why the stigma is not nearly as harsh for pets. I KNOW that being obese is not good for my cats health (although, my fattest is 15 and going strong. People NEVER guess her age, and vet says she is in purrfect health). I have volunteered at a cat rescue for close to 9 years now. I have a little experience with overweight pets!
I have gotten questions about why my cats are overweight. In fact, the manager asked how it was even possible that my indoor/outdoor cats were obese, b/c those cats went outside. So, there was an assumption that those cats were more active than the others (ie less "lazy").
In all honesty, my 15 year old cat is obese due to her behavior, and her behavior is due to my behavior. Once a vet looked at her teeth and said something like, "Oh, I bet you eat all of the other cats' food." Her weight wasn't the only indicator that she was over eating; her teeth gave it away. After that, I realized that her weight was due to a lot of food guarding behavior.
I then realized that not only was she guarding her food and eating all of the food (I call her the "cat boss," b/c she acts like the alpha of my pack), she WAS over eating, and I was over feeding the other cats to compensate. I put all 6 on a feeding schedule, and all lost weight.
Fat pets are overweight due to hormones, behavior, and activity level....just like people.2 -
paperpudding wrote: »Thread title says hyperthyroid - that would be too much, not too little ( hypo)
Not sure if typo or misuse of word? Or other posters misread, went off on tangent?
Hyperthyroid in humans does not cause weight gain, quite the reverse.
People get fidgety, anxious, can't stay still, can't sleep- over-activity.
I didn't misread, the post talked about the cat getting 'lazy' due to the meds being off, similar to people who are hypothyroid.
that's fine, my post wasnt directed at anyone in particular.
I don't have a cat, so will let you all continue on then.....
1 -
I can only comment with regard to dogs, as one of my former dogs was hypothyroid.
At the time I had two dogs, both overweight, although the younger male's weight was far more of an issue as he'd gained a third of his body weight in a year. Hypothyroidism wasn't really the top suspect however as he didn't have the typical lethargy, he was as energetic as ever. The vet wanted me to try diet first, with both dogs coming into the clinic monthly to weigh in and check their progress. I diligently measured food and limited treats. After three months the older female had lost 7 pounds, which put her at the proper weight. The younger male had lost only ONE pound. The diet was supposed to go on for 6 months but at that point because of his poor weight loss I asked to have his thyroid levels checked immediately. He was at less than 1/4 of the optimal level, and went on quite a high dose of synthetic thyroid. He remained on that dose for the rest of his life.
So, yeah, CICO. Apparently hypothyroidism can have quite a dramatic effect on the CO part of that equation. Both dogs got (as near as I could figure out anyway) the appropriate calorie allotment for weight loss, the same amount of exercise as in walks, although he probably got slightly more in the yard because he would run to fetch a ball for far longer than she would, yet his loss was dramatically less until his thyroid was corrected.
How did his weight do after he got his thyroid corrected? Did he maintain a reasonable weight loss for the rest of his life? I ask because I am having the same sort of situation with one of my cats and my vet hasn't suggested testing her thyroid, but maybe I should ask her to.2 -
I had a hyperthyroid cat. He had lots of problems, but hyperthyroidism is what killed him. We couldn't do the radio active idodine treatment because he only had one working kidney. I did realize the hyperthyroidism was caused by thyroid tumors. What I didn't know is that the tumors could grow big enough to close off his esophagus so he struggled to breath.
I'm not sure if I would have done the treatment if I had known. The thought of him being gone for it and having to quarantine him from the other cats and myself would have been hard. But before you make the decision not to do it, I thought you should know what can happen, because nobody told me.3 -
So sorry!
Did they not give you the option to medicate him? My cat is hyperthyroid, but also has a severe vet fear, so I was doing pills (2x/day) and then switched to this option you rub in the ear. He's pretty good about pills, though, so I might shift back -- he also has asthma which requires a pill for now so I was feeling like he thought I was going to shove a pill down his throat every time he saw me, but he seems actually less bothered by pills now than the ear medication.
I am thinking about the RA iodine also, but they want to make sure his levels are stable first anyway.0 -
Fit_Happens_2021 wrote: »I can only comment with regard to dogs, as one of my former dogs was hypothyroid.
At the time I had two dogs, both overweight, although the younger male's weight was far more of an issue as he'd gained a third of his body weight in a year. Hypothyroidism wasn't really the top suspect however as he didn't have the typical lethargy, he was as energetic as ever. The vet wanted me to try diet first, with both dogs coming into the clinic monthly to weigh in and check their progress. I diligently measured food and limited treats. After three months the older female had lost 7 pounds, which put her at the proper weight. The younger male had lost only ONE pound. The diet was supposed to go on for 6 months but at that point because of his poor weight loss I asked to have his thyroid levels checked immediately. He was at less than 1/4 of the optimal level, and went on quite a high dose of synthetic thyroid. He remained on that dose for the rest of his life.
So, yeah, CICO. Apparently hypothyroidism can have quite a dramatic effect on the CO part of that equation. Both dogs got (as near as I could figure out anyway) the appropriate calorie allotment for weight loss, the same amount of exercise as in walks, although he probably got slightly more in the yard because he would run to fetch a ball for far longer than she would, yet his loss was dramatically less until his thyroid was corrected.
How did his weight do after he got his thyroid corrected? Did he maintain a reasonable weight loss for the rest of his life? I ask because I am having the same sort of situation with one of my cats and my vet hasn't suggested testing her thyroid, but maybe I should ask her to.
He dropped the extra weight quite quickly after being put on the meds. Not by medication alone, however, I was still giving him the lower quantity of food until he got to a proper weight. And I'm talking about 20 lbs on a 65 lb dog (he hit 86 lbs before diagnosis). Maintained his proper weight for life. Although he never lost his obsession with food and I had to give him a gobble bowl because he inhaled it much too quickly. The only thing I noticed was that for about 6 to 12 months after starting the meds he developed quite bad dandruff-type skin shedding, very noticeable as he was mostly black. It did go away without treatment, I assumed it was just his system adjusting to having the proper amount of thyroid hormone circulating.0 -
So sorry!
Did they not give you the option to medicate him? My cat is hyperthyroid, but also has a severe vet fear, so I was doing pills (2x/day) and then switched to this option you rub in the ear. He's pretty good about pills, though, so I might shift back -- he also has asthma which requires a pill for now so I was feeling like he thought I was going to shove a pill down his throat every time he saw me, but he seems actually less bothered by pills now than the ear medication.
I am thinking about the RA iodine also, but they want to make sure his levels are stable first anyway.
Yes, we medicated him for years and it was under control. The tumors secrete extra thyroid hormone, so the medication doesn't keep them from growing, it just offsets the extra hormone. We had no choice, and couldn't do radio iodine therapy because he was already in the beginning of renal failure.3 -
WHY ARE THERE NO CAT PICTURES HERE YET?
Here's mine, protecting the kale from cabbage worms:
4 -
I wish I could effortlessly self regulate my weight the same way my cat does. He was an underweight rescue cat when we got him, got up to a healthy weight in a few months, and has stayed the same for the next three years.
He gets Rachel Ray dry, plus small amounts of cooked chicken at dinner time. And grass (but not kale.)1
Categories
- All Categories
- 1.4M Health, Wellness and Goals
- 391.3K Introduce Yourself
- 43.4K Getting Started
- 259.6K Health and Weight Loss
- 175.6K Food and Nutrition
- 47.3K Recipes
- 232.3K Fitness and Exercise
- 387 Sleep, Mindfulness and Overall Wellness
- 6.4K Goal: Maintaining Weight
- 8.5K Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
- 152.7K Motivation and Support
- 7.8K Challenges
- 1.3K Debate Club
- 96.2K Chit-Chat
- 2.5K Fun and Games
- 3.2K MyFitnessPal Information
- 22 News and Announcements
- 911 Feature Suggestions and Ideas
- 2.3K MyFitnessPal Tech Support Questions