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How angry would you be?
BecomingMoreAwesome
Posts: 151 Member
in Debate Club
My teenager is texting me that we should look into a plant based diet because their health teacher is showing The Game Changers in class. (If that’s not the most Californian sentence ever, I don’t know what is.)
I’m actually open to moving towards a more plant-based diet, and I know that they can be healthy and tasty. When I’m on my game with planning and cooking, we already eat vegetarian about half the week.
But a Netflix documentary? Really? They’re notoriously awful and full of misinformation intended to fire people up. I’m incredibly disappointed in this teacher.
Hey, at least it’s giving me an opportunity to discuss evaluating sources and biases with my kid. Would you leave it at discussing it at home, or would you take it up with the teacher?
I’m actually open to moving towards a more plant-based diet, and I know that they can be healthy and tasty. When I’m on my game with planning and cooking, we already eat vegetarian about half the week.
But a Netflix documentary? Really? They’re notoriously awful and full of misinformation intended to fire people up. I’m incredibly disappointed in this teacher.
Hey, at least it’s giving me an opportunity to discuss evaluating sources and biases with my kid. Would you leave it at discussing it at home, or would you take it up with the teacher?
16
Replies
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it's always good to discuss things with your kids, any family member really & keep an open dialog continuously making it "safe" to be able to discuss anything11
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I think it would be worth bringing it up to the school administration (not the teacher directly). Not accusing the teacher of anything, just expressing concern about the source of the information being shown to your kid. I'm not familiar with that one in particular, but I know a lot of those Netflix "documentaries" are basically propaganda for people with political agendas.
It's also, as you say, a great opportunity to talk to your kid about vetting sources.16 -
I don't think I'd be angry, but more...annoyed? Like, OK, what's next, documentaries on Elvis sightings and alien abductions?
IMO, this is a pretty amazing (and entirely fair) critique:
https://renaissanceperiodization.com/expert-advice/game-changers-critique-by-dr-mel-davis
FWIW, I have nothing against plant-based diets (I was vegetarian for years and my kiddo currently is, which I support wholeheartedly - both actually preparing their food and obviously paying for it). The Game Changers is just a lotta BS tho and has no place being taught as fact.14 -
I think the teacher did great. She got your teenager interested in eating healthy and taking care of their body.
Your teenager did great. Heard the message and decided the wise thing to do was talk to mom.
Your turn. Discuss it openly with your kid. Thank the teacher for bringing it up.29 -
I don't think I'd be angry, but more...annoyed? Like, OK, what's next, documentaries on Elvis sightings and alien abductions?
IMO, this is a pretty amazing (and entirely fair) critique:
https://renaissanceperiodization.com/expert-advice/game-changers-critique-by-dr-mel-davis
FWIW, I have nothing against plant-based diets (I was vegetarian for years and my kiddo currently is, which I support wholeheartedly - both actually preparing their food and obviously paying for it). The Game Changers is just a lotta BS tho and has no place being taught as fact.
Yeah, this.
I probably wouldn't do anything but use it as a teaching experience with the child, however -- watching it together and pointing out propaganda and playing fast and loose with facts.7 -
Not all Netflix documentaries are bad. There was good information in there. It is good to look at different sources of information and then use your judgement to determine what’s true or not. I would not be mad at all.17
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Any chance of getting a copy of the documentary and re-watching it with your teenager?3
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I don't think I'd be angry, but more...annoyed? Like, OK, what's next, documentaries on Elvis sightings and alien abductions?
IMO, this is a pretty amazing (and entirely fair) critique:
https://renaissanceperiodization.com/expert-advice/game-changers-critique-by-dr-mel-davis
FWIW, I have nothing against plant-based diets (I was vegetarian for years and my kiddo currently is, which I support wholeheartedly - both actually preparing their food and obviously paying for it). The Game Changers is just a lotta BS tho and has no place being taught as fact.
Thanks! They texted me just before I needed to leave to pick up my younger kid, so while I was leery about it on the basis of its existence as a Netflix “health” documentary, I hadn’t looked up analyses of it yet.2 -
BecomingMoreAwesome wrote: »I don't think I'd be angry, but more...annoyed? Like, OK, what's next, documentaries on Elvis sightings and alien abductions?
IMO, this is a pretty amazing (and entirely fair) critique:
https://renaissanceperiodization.com/expert-advice/game-changers-critique-by-dr-mel-davis
FWIW, I have nothing against plant-based diets (I was vegetarian for years and my kiddo currently is, which I support wholeheartedly - both actually preparing their food and obviously paying for it). The Game Changers is just a lotta BS tho and has no place being taught as fact.
Thanks! They texted me just before I needed to leave to pick up my younger kid, so while I was leery about it on the basis of its existence as a Netflix “health” documentary, I hadn’t looked up analyses of it yet.
Very welcome!
Layne Norton also did a good piece on it:
https://www.biolayne.com/articles/research/the-game-changers-review-a-scientific-analysis/3 -
Not all Netflix documentaries are bad. There was good information in there. It is good to look at different sources of information and then use your judgement to determine what’s true or not. I would not be mad at all.
Came here to say essentially this.
Also?
I pulled my kid out of public school in 4th grade because (reasons) and homeschooled after that. And one of the first, most surprising lessons he learned was that authority figures can be wrong. He learned it by checking the answers to his math in the teacher’s manual. Sometimes the answer was wrong. He could see it clearly and without any spin.
This is an opportunity for the same lesson.
Check multiple sources. Think criticality. Trust facts and science (mostly, quacks and charlatans still deserve derision)
It’s a powerful lesson.11 -
I wouldn't be angry for a few reasons, and I would want to hear the teacher's side of things before coming to any judgement.
There's a long standing assumption that documentaries are informative and educational. That's never been 100%, and in the last ~15 years or whatever it's been even less true. Without knowing more, I default to assuming good will in a situation like this. It's common knowledge in MFP that Netflix documentaries in particular are a joke, but that isn't something everyone is aware of.
Teachers have a lot of work and I think when they show films it's probably less about indoctrination and more about managing the workload. On the other hand it's also good to expose kids to ideas, including ones that have merit but can't be implemented by everyone in that moment because the world has lots of them and kids need to be able to navigate.15 -
This may be an opportunity to teach your child about evaluating sources, and how to identify reliable sources.
I'm a long time (47+ years) vegetarian, and not a fan of game changers.
If you do an internet search for something like "registered dietitian review of game changers" or "vegan dietitian game changers", you'll see various views. Virtually all of the people with genuine academic credentials - like the sources Banx already mentioned above, have some concerns or criticisms of the (so-called) documentary. They vary from mixed to outraged. Few people with actual expertise/credentials are finding this film fully accurate/informative.
Personally, I like this review, too, from an admitted student dietitian, not fully credentialed yet, who's actually vegan himself.
https://dieteticallyspeaking.com/an-evidence-based-review-of-the-game-changers/
Watch the film. Read the reviews. Point out distortions and bias. Good learning opportunity.
If that teacher's presenting the film as "facts" vs. as an opportunity to evaluate potentially biased sources . . . I'd be angry. But I'd be inclined to speak with the teacher, understand the intent and context straight from his/her mouth, and if necessary share some of the divergent views from sound sources.15 -
MargaretYakoda wrote: »Not all Netflix documentaries are bad. There was good information in there. It is good to look at different sources of information and then use your judgement to determine what’s true or not. I would not be mad at all.
Came here to say essentially this.
Also?
I pulled my kid out of public school in 4th grade because (reasons) and homeschooled after that. And one of the first, most surprising lessons he learned was that authority figures can be wrong. He learned it by checking the answers to his math in the teacher’s manual. Sometimes the answer was wrong. He could see it clearly and without any spin.
This is an opportunity for the same lesson.
Check multiple sources. Think criticality. Trust facts and science (mostly, quacks and charlatans still deserve derision)
It’s a powerful lesson.
Yes, this.
Also, I would be pleased that the school is even addressing the topic of plant based eating as it is good to get them thinking about these things. At least, that’s how I feel about it.7 -
Disclaimer: I haven't seen the documentary, nor do I even have Netflix.
Any chance it was shown as an exercise in getting the class to engage in critical thinking? Not just presented as fact but to encourage them to research aspects of plant-based eating on their own and maybe bring that back for a debate, challenge some of the views?
I'd be more annoyed at now having to sit and watch it so I could poke holes in it, lol.8 -
I guess it would depend on what the teacher's motives were for showing the documentary to the students. Seeing as how it's a health class, I'm doubting it was for critique of bias in media! If it was to open the students' eyes to another way of eating that in fact can be very healthy when done well and how eating animal products may harm the environment, then I wouldn't be annoyed. If a discussion followed discussing pros and cons of this, and then hopefully other eating styles, I'd be perfectly fine with that. I also understand why she would choose a Netflix documentary for teenagers. I haven't watched the documentary, but like a lot of them, I do realize there is typically some unchecked bias with them. However, it's something current and would probably capture their attention and get them thinking. Now, if the teacher was vegan him/herself and used it to push her way of eating on the kids with her own bias, then yeah, I'd be annoyed. A health teacher, coach, etc., shouldn't push one style of eating over another, when there are other well-known healthy eating styles that also include animal products.
Speaking of kids watching documentaries in schools then trying to get family members to change habits, when my oldest brother was 8 back in the 70's, he watched a documentary about how smoking was bad for you. I'm sure at the time there were some parents who were upset by that, even though he will all know smoking IS bad for you. Anyway, he told my grandfather, a heavy smoker at the time, that he wanted him to quit smoking because of how bad it is. Well, my grandpa quit cold turkey soon after that conversation. My grandma would always tell us how hard it was for him, being a smoker for 40 years at that point, but he did it for his grandkids and never had another cigarette after that. Unfortunately, he developed emphysema about 10 years later, and then eventually lung cancer.14 -
How about getting your child to write an essay on plant based diet versus meat or vegetarian diets
This would be a teaching moment on doing research and critical thinking skills - then both of you can sit down and discuss the findings
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I looked at the above critiques, and they weren't the ones I had read before, so I went down a rabbit hole to find earlier threads and critiques:
https://www.menshealth.com/nutrition/a29067926/the-game-changers-movie-fact-check/
And here's an obviously biased source complaining about the biases in Game Changers:
https://www.beefmagazine.com/beef/why-schwarzenegger-s-game-changers-documentary-dangerous1 -
MargaretYakoda wrote: »Not all Netflix documentaries are bad. There was good information in there. It is good to look at different sources of information and then use your judgement to determine what’s true or not. I would not be mad at all.
Came here to say essentially this.
Also?
I pulled my kid out of public school in 4th grade because (reasons) and homeschooled after that. And one of the first, most surprising lessons he learned was that authority figures can be wrong. He learned it by checking the answers to his math in the teacher’s manual. Sometimes the answer was wrong. He could see it clearly and without any spin.
This is an opportunity for the same lesson.
Check multiple sources. Think criticality. Trust facts and science (mostly, quacks and charlatans still deserve derision)
It’s a powerful lesson.
Six disagrees here.
Can anyone say what could possibly be the issue they’re disagreeing with?
‘Cause this isn’t accidental, and it isn’t anything I can understand a reasonable person would disagree with.
Or do I have multiple disagree stalkers?
Not upset. Just curious.4 -
Speakeasy76 wrote: »I guess it would depend on what the teacher's motives were for showing the documentary to the students. Seeing as how it's a health class, I'm doubting it was for critique of bias in media!
I was naively hopeful that it was some sort of lesson in how to critically evaluate popular information sources with regard to health topics.
Disclaimer #2: I don't have kids and have NO idea what they do in schools these days.2 -
My kids were shown a video on fast food, i think it was called supersize me. It was a health class and my daughter became more interested in nutrition (from the class, not just the video). I think it was an overall good experience. The show was just one component.
If my child wanted to change their diet to plant based that is fine, but I am not ready to give up meat. It is good you are having a discussion. If you are angry you could reach out to the teacher. I agree some of the documentaries are totally skewed.11 -
Fat Head was a good response to SuperSize me as far as importance of calories and weight management - and making choices even at "bad fast food places" can be done for better nutrition.
Left good room for discussion. Of course, not shown in school and I doubt it would be, wrong idea probably taken home.5 -
My problem with this would be the teacher advocating for a particular way of eating. I think that's inappropriate in a general health class. I absolutely believe that kids should be introduced to the basics of nutrition and healthy eating, and that information should be standard in any health class. However, the focus should be the generic USDA recommendations, not geared toward any particular diet that limits food choices and demonizes food that may be important in the student's household. I think it would be fine to include references to other points of view (and I would stick to resources that present a general description of the diet (including reasons for choosing that way of eating) rather that emotionally charged "documentaries", especially when only one alternative is discussed.
It's important for families to have discussions around food and nutrition, and children should certainly be exposed to different ways of eating, but it's not up to the teacher to push for a particular diet, especially one that could cause impressionable children to develop guilt around the foods their families eat.10 -
SuzySunshine99 wrote: »I think it would be worth bringing it up to the school administration (not the teacher directly). Not accusing the teacher of anything, just expressing concern about the source of the information being shown to your kid. I'm not familiar with that one in particular, but I know a lot of those Netflix "documentaries" are basically propaganda for people with political agendas.
It's also, as you say, a great opportunity to talk to your kid about vetting sources.
Disagree. If you have questions/concerns, discuss them with the teacher. She/he deserves the courtesy of being given the opportunity for open dialogue with you. Then if you're not satisfied, have a conversation with admin. A good administrator will direct you to speak directly with the teacher first anyway. It is customary to follow the proper chain of command.16 -
I would talk to your kid first and then with the teacher. Try to get a sense of what the full cirriculum is. Did the kids have other chapters, movies, etc with good nutritional information about protein, balance diet, etc., and this was just an "add-in" to try to provide impact -- maybe OK. But if this was the bulk of the nutrition teaching, or the only thing your kid remembers about nutrition, then not OK. That movie is mostly sensationalization. Also quite skewed toward veganism, which is ONE option, and fine for you to teach your kids at home if you want, but should not be taught at the only healthy diet in schools.
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No this would not make me angry at all. But I am not an American so I come from a different mindset. I can see how this film would upset cattle farmers and people in certain parts of the USA. You have a right to be upset and maybe mention it to the teacher.4
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I wouldn't be angry, but then I'm a vegetarian and have been vegan at times and may go back. I'm disturbed about the cruelty of factory farms. Another issue: my late husband had cancer for 13 years and was advised to eat a specific no-meat, no-dairy diet that helped some patients, per his oncologist at the Lombardi Cancer Center (Georgetown Hospital, Washington, DC).
I have not seen this film and googled some reviews. Most of the reviews said the film is pro-vegan, makes some good points, and has some serious flaws. I would use the film to open a discussion with my teen about the film's pros and cons and see if you could both learn something new.
Schools often show lopsided material, but even if it isn't perfect -- or doesn't reflect our personal point of view -- it can make us think and ask questions.
If you are angry, by all means talk to the teacher about your concerns.7 -
I think I'd discuss it with your child and expand on the topic with them. If there are specific points that you think were erroneous with the documentary that your child retained and is using as a talking point, then refute them with other factual evidence.
I'd leave the teacher alone unless there's a very concerted and continuing effort to push the wrong info on this specific topic.3 -
I wouldn't be angry at all. I'd be pleased we'd be able to have a discussion on food.8
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Not all Netflix documentaries are bad. There was good information in there. It is good to look at different sources of information and then use your judgement to determine what’s true or not. I would not be mad at all.
But are they approved school curriculum? Teachers cannot just teach whatever they want. Nutrition should be taught at school, but in the right class, with approved curriculum. I would be concerned if this was an authorized lesson - or just the teacher preaching their own subject.4 -
You need more context. Did they discuss the pro/con of the credibility of the video? Was a counter argument discussed? Etc.1
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