my dietician view on exercise cals. agree or disagree?

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  • cupotee
    cupotee Posts: 181 Member
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    i'm inclined to agree with your dieticians. Think of your body as refrigerator, storing food. Excessively overweight people have all their shelves stuffed, and can live for a long time without going to the grocery store (eating more). Skinnier people have less in the fridge, and thus have to go to the grocery store more often.
  • bllowry
    bllowry Posts: 239 Member
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    I was 18 stone when I started; in 13.5 weeks I've lost 2 stone, 2 pounds. My dietician put me on 1550 calories a day with little exercise to start (other health/joint issues involved) and told me I would lose a bit more in the beginning, but to aim for a pound a week with moderate exercise. I want to lose just over 8 stone total, so I know this is a journey of a year or more and I'm completely comfortable with that. Because I am currently diabetic it is very important to eat on a schedule and net the 1550 so my blood sugars stay even. My doctor is confident that with the ongoing weight loss I will no longer be classified as diabetic and we are re-evaluating everything at 3 month intervals and I will adjust accordingly. I would listen to your people as they have taken your personal situation in consideration; if weight loss were an easy, one size fits all (no pun intended) solution nobody would be overweight. I wish you well on your journey to being fit and healthy.
  • koosdel
    koosdel Posts: 3,317 Member
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    I have been reading a lot about the starvation mode, and I don't think it exists the way that people make it seem to. Your Metabolism is not a piece of glass it is more like a rubber band. The guys they did the study on that began the whole starvation mode debate slowed their metabolism by a huge number, like 40% I think.... but that was after they got their bodies down to like 5% bf. And even at 5% body fat they kept losing. Not healthy of course, I am in no way advocating that that is what you should do. But the idea that as soon as you drop below a certain number of calories your body is going to shut down and start gaining weight makes no sense. Starving children in Africa do not suddenly start to balloon up when they don't get fed. Also if you watch the biggest loser, those people are working out 6 to 7 hours a day... and eating on average 1000 calories a day to start with... If you are following the advice of a dietician I have to say that is the advice you should stick to.
    I do watch a lot of biggest loser uk and australia on sky and love it! Another reason I'm confused! X

    Biggest Loser; great for motivation, bad bad bad for technique.
  • carey1932
    carey1932 Posts: 55 Member
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    Bravo!!! I agree it gets way overstated and overused.

    A very interesting article from Weight Watchers Science Center:
    http://www.weightwatchers.com/util/art/index_art.aspx?art_id=35501&tabnum=1&sc=801&subnav=Science+Library:+The+Physics+of+Weight+Loss
  • MissD89
    MissD89 Posts: 102
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    bump
  • XXXMinnieXXX
    XXXMinnieXXX Posts: 3,459 Member
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    Did you ever ask yourself where the 2lbs/week guideline came from in the first place?

    Post from one of my favorite blogs
    http://johnbarban.com/weight-loss-fallacies-2lbs-per-week-and-1200-calories-per-day/

    Weight Loss Fallacies: 2lbs per week and 1200 calories per day


    I received an email the other day that sums up how popular diet/fitness misinformation can leave people frustrated, upset, angry and eventually to flat out give up on the idea of getting in shape.

    So the email went something like this:

    “I just read your book and it says my RMR is approx 1250 calories. I want to lose 2lbs per week because that is supposed to be a realistic weight loss goal…but to do that you say you have to create a 1000 calorie deficit each day, that means I can only eat 250 calories per day…but I also heard that you should never eat below 1200 calories per day…so how is this possible?!”


    What is a realistic weight loss goal?
    Of course I’m paraphrasing and this is not the exact words, but this is a very typical email I get every week.

    There are a few different flaws and fallacies in this statement…did you notice them? If not, I’ll show you.

    Fallacy #1. There is no scientific proof that 2lbs per week of weight loss is a safe or realistic goal that all adults humans can or should expect to achieve. This is a claim based on FTC advertising standards. You only hear this number because marketers aren’t allowed to say any more by law. If they could the number would likely be 10lbs per week. That doesn’t make it any more or less correct, because neither number is based on scientific evidence.

    A 6’5 260lbs man can easily expect to lose up to even 4lbs per week, however a 5’1 woman is hardly in the same position. Instead of setting a weight loss goal based on poundage (ie: 1lbs, 2lbs, 3lbs per week) you should be looking at it as a percentage of your bodyweight.

    A 6’0 tall man who weights 220lbs with a RMR of approximately 2000 cals/day could easily create a 1000 calorie deficit each day by cutting his calories to 1500/day and burning an additional 500 calories in a good hard workout (mix of weights and cardio).

    1500 is still plenty of calories to feel relatively satisfied while still creating a fair sized deficit to facilitate a significant weekly weight loss.

    Also 2lbs of weight loss represents less than 1% of his total bodyweight.

    Now change the person to a 5’1 woman with an RMR of 1250 calories. She would have to eat around 750 calories per day as well as burning off an additional 500 in the gym. This is starting to sound more like torture than a reasonable diet plan.

    The fallacy is that 2lbs is a good target for all body sizes…it is not. Smaller people have smaller metabolisms and shouldn’t expect to lose as much total weight as a bigger person. It would be more realistic for her to shoot for 1lbs of weight loss which would only require a 500 calorie daily deficit…this could be achieved with a much more reasonably daily calorie intake around 1000 calories with a 250 calorie burn from a workout. Doesn’t that sound much more realistic?!

    Fallacy #2: 1200 calories is the minimum you should eat in a day

    I don’t know where this number comes from and I will be spending some time in the near future looking it up. However based on the RDI and RDA for nutrients the actual lower limit for calories (when you add up the individual recommendations for protein, carbs and fats) comes out to around 800 calories per day for women and 900 for men. So even according to the RDA you can easily eat well below 1200 and get your daily requirements of protein carbs and fats.

    These two false assumptions are leading many people down a path of frustration and weight loss failure.

    Setting realistic weight loss goals is the first step to success.

    Letting go of your fear of eating less food is the second step.

    Once you realize it’s ok to eat a bit less food then you will start to see things really change.

    John
    Thanks for taking the time to post this for me. Very interesting! Currntly loosing 3lbs regularly, and some people were saying eat more so you only loose 2lb, but I was thinking but I'm not hungry I'm eating 1400-1700 with my exercise of anywhere between 600 to 1000, more 600s. Great to know where the 2lb guideline comes from. That's amazing that its illegal to say more. I'm still 256lbs and 5ft 6, I do think a percentage is of your body weight is a good idea! What percentage though weekly? Zara x
  • XXXMinnieXXX
    XXXMinnieXXX Posts: 3,459 Member
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    I think one thing that hasn't been mentioned is this- even amongst professionals (and good qualified professions), there's a difference in opinion about how to do things. There is probably data out there to support large calorie defecit, and data to support lower calorie defecit- so it's possible your dietician is right, and people on this forum contradicting that are also right. more than one way to skin a cat. There is so much information to look at , just do what feels best to you. If you feel good with large calorie defecit, go for it. if you feel terrible- sluggish, weak, tired, and starving........eat some more.

    Most important thing, Listen to your body!

    Totally agree!

    It's highly context-dependent. If you have a lot of weight to lose, then losing 2 lbs or more a week is fine.

    Fine-tuning diet techniques only start to become necessary and beneficial as you approach your goal weight or are looking to shed some stubborn fat.

    Should people with a lot of weight to lose engage in calorie cycling or even "eating back your exercise calories"? Of course not.
    I would say I'm definately starting to listen to my body more thanks to this topic post. Its works lost 4lbs last week and looks like 3-4 this week, will see come monday!
  • XXXMinnieXXX
    XXXMinnieXXX Posts: 3,459 Member
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    Did the dietitian do a BMR test on you? My dietitian did one on me and my metabolic rate was lower than average. =( With 2 hours of exercise (running and some strength training) factored in every week, she told me that I can eat 1400-1500 calories per day and lose 1-2 pounds per week. Any calories burned from additional, purposeful exercise I can eat. Her philosophy, though, is not number-based, but is more of listening to your body. She says that if I'm really hungry one day then I can go over on my calories, but not to make that a regular thing. The goal is to help me fall into healthy patterns of exercising regularly and eating moderate meals everyday.
    They didn't do a BMR test on me, but I'm intrigued and would like one. Going to ask about it! This is the NHS though lol. Thanks zara
  • XXXMinnieXXX
    XXXMinnieXXX Posts: 3,459 Member
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    I think you can find a balance in the middle. You clearly are working hard with your exercise. Even if mfp is generous on how many calories you have burned, if you are exercising hard enough to be out of breath/ sweat for an hour to an hour and a half, then you are burning calories/ fat and strengthening muscles. You're certainly not taken an approach where you are thinking that you have burned 1000 calories so you can then stuff your face with junk. But if you've exercised hard and your body needs more food, then go ahead and snack healthily, keeping to the targets you have set. The nutritionist at the weight management group I attend suggests that you need to do this to maintain even blood sugar levels- sharp drops and spikes can make you feel unwell and are not helpful to losing weight at a steady pace (I am paraphrasing here- she said it far more succinctly and scientifically).

    As for logging things like cleaning or short walks, if people want to then it's up to them. If it's more than your normal activity and you raise your heart rate for an extended period of time, then it will all help. It's motivational too. I walked 15 minutes today but I've logged it- a couple of months ago I would have taken the car- I feel better that I at least did something- I have no intention eating back those few calories but it feels like an achievement to have something to log. If I was logging it in order to justify eating over my targets, then the whole thing would be pointless.

    Keep going Zara. Your efforts have motivated me this week (am still shattered from yesterday). Thanks for sharing your diary. x
    Thanks honey, your a great friend. So lovely to hear I've motivated you, as you've motivated me also. I definately don't do exercise with the intention of eating it all back. I have fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue and pain, so all exercise is an accomplishment to me, and its just great to see how much I am achieving. All this walking everywhere was taxis and buses or not going out a few months ago, so when I go for a brisk walk at dinner on top of my other activities I like logging it, as its an accomplishment for me, I've already been up at 5.15 to do a little exercise and will done some at night, I'm tired at dinner and could easily sit there for the 30 mins and do nothing but instead I've started eating dinner and going for a brisk walk. This is an accomplishment for me and I like logging it, I never eat them back, just like seeing what I've done at the end of the day or week. Thanks for your support! Zarax
  • XXXMinnieXXX
    XXXMinnieXXX Posts: 3,459 Member
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    I am worried about loose skin. I lost 46lbs now all together, but keep sticking along the way, and trying to nail the exact things I should be doing once and for all!

    I have lost roughly 70-75 pounds in a little over 2 years. That pace has not resulted in any visible loose skin. Take that for what you will. I certainly don't claim to know anything about what will and/or won't affect that.
    That's reassuring! Thanks!
  • NiciS72
    NiciS72 Posts: 1,043 Member
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    I agree with your dietician based upon the advice I received from BOTH of the doctors I see at a weight loss practice. They have the credentials and when I follow their advice I am successful.
  • XXXMinnieXXX
    XXXMinnieXXX Posts: 3,459 Member
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    i'm inclined to agree with your dieticians. Think of your body as refrigerator, storing food. Excessively overweight people have all their shelves stuffed, and can live for a long time without going to the grocery store (eating more). Skinnier people have less in the fridge, and thus have to go to the grocery store more often.
    Love your way of thinking! Zara
  • Melissa110682
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    I'm sorry but not logging cleaning as exercise is a bit harsh. I say log it if you built up a sweat and spent a considerable amount of time doing it then why the hell not!! It takes me hours to do a major clean of my entire house once a week. By the time I'm finished I'm sweating, my heart rate has risen and I feel like I've had a good workout why should I not log that as exercise? Especially considering that I need the extra calories that day because after doing all that work I'm freaking starving.
  • BrewerGeorge
    BrewerGeorge Posts: 397 Member
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    The thing about the advice here is that it's going to be heavily influenced by the advice giver's personal experiences and their body type. A certified dietician should have training on how to deal with all body types.

    Things are different when you're REALLY big - like when you have 75 lbs or more to lose. The ten-pounds-over crowd is struggling and fighting and finessing to lose that last bit, but we big folks almost can't help but to lose, and quickly. Starting at 290 lbs, I lost 3-4 per week all through August even though I was set at a 2 lb/wk deficit and I was eating back my exercise. There's no reason to think you wouldn't do that, too.

    Listen to the professional.
  • flipsit
    flipsit Posts: 111
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    I think you can find a balance in the middle. You clearly are working hard with your exercise. Even if mfp is generous on how many calories you have burned, if you are exercising hard enough to be out of breath/ sweat for an hour to an hour and a half, then you are burning calories/ fat and strengthening muscles. You're certainly not taken an approach where you are thinking that you have burned 1000 calories so you can then stuff your face with junk. But if you've exercised hard and your body needs more food, then go ahead and snack healthily, keeping to the targets you have set. The nutritionist at the weight management group I attend suggests that you need to do this to maintain even blood sugar levels- sharp drops and spikes can make you feel unwell and are not helpful to losing weight at a steady pace (I am paraphrasing here- she said it far more succinctly and scientifically).

    As for logging things like cleaning or short walks, if people want to then it's up to them. If it's more than your normal activity and you raise your heart rate for an extended period of time, then it will all help. It's motivational too. I walked 15 minutes today but I've logged it- a couple of months ago I would have taken the car- I feel better that I at least did something- I have no intention eating back those few calories but it feels like an achievement to have something to log. If I was logging it in order to justify eating over my targets, then the whole thing would be pointless.

    Keep going Zara. Your efforts have motivated me this week (am still shattered from yesterday). Thanks for sharing your diary. x
    Thanks honey, your a great friend. So lovely to hear I've motivated you, as you've motivated me also. I definately don't do exercise with the intention of eating it all back. I have fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue and pain, so all exercise is an accomplishment to me, and its just great to see how much I am achieving. All this walking everywhere was taxis and buses or not going out a few months ago, so when I go for a brisk walk at dinner on top of my other activities I like logging it, as its an accomplishment for me, I've already been up at 5.15 to do a little exercise and will done some at night, I'm tired at dinner and could easily sit there for the 30 mins and do nothing but instead I've started eating dinner and going for a brisk walk. This is an accomplishment for me and I like logging it, I never eat them back, just like seeing what I've done at the end of the day or week. Thanks for your support! Zarax


    Sounds like you've got it down right missus. Fab work. x
  • XXXMinnieXXX
    XXXMinnieXXX Posts: 3,459 Member
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    The thing about the advice here is that it's going to be heavily influenced by the advice giver's personal experiences and their body type. A certified dietician should have training on how to deal with all body types.

    Things are different when you're REALLY big - like when you have 75 lbs or more to lose. The ten-pounds-over crowd is struggling and fighting and finessing to lose that last bit, but we big folks almost can't help but to lose, and quickly. Starting at 290 lbs, I lost 3-4 per week all through August even though I was set at a 2 lb/wk deficit and I was eating back my exercise. There's no reason to think you wouldn't do that, too.

    Listen to the professional.
    [/quote
    Great points! Thanks! Zara
  • XXXMinnieXXX
    XXXMinnieXXX Posts: 3,459 Member
    Options
    The thing about the advice here is that it's going to be heavily influenced by the advice giver's personal experiences and their body type. A certified dietician should have training on how to deal with all body types.

    Things are different when you're REALLY big - like when you have 75 lbs or more to lose. The ten-pounds-over crowd is struggling and fighting and finessing to lose that last bit, but we big folks almost can't help but to lose, and quickly. Starting at 290 lbs, I lost 3-4 per week all through August even though I was set at a 2 lb/wk deficit and I was eating back my exercise. There's no reason to think you wouldn't do that, too.

    Listen to the professional.
    Great points! Thankyou! Zara
  • XXXMinnieXXX
    XXXMinnieXXX Posts: 3,459 Member
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    I'm sorry but not logging cleaning as exercise is a bit harsh. I say log it if you built up a sweat and spent a considerable amount of time doing it then why the hell not!! It takes me hours to do a major clean of my entire house once a week. By the time I'm finished I'm sweating, my heart rate has risen and I feel like I've had a good workout why should I not log that as exercise? Especially considering that I need the extra calories that day because after doing all that work I'm freaking starving.
    Well said honey! Lol x
  • dez_yaoichan
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    I would listen to the dieticians. Most of us on here are not professionals and therefore we are just going by our own experience or what we have read somewhere.

    Good luck in your journey to a new you.

    this!

    none of us know your blood work or the reasons your dr wants you to lose so fast. they may be trying to speed up the lose for a health reason and will readjust once you are out of the danger zone? only you and your dr knows the reason, dont pay attention to anyone on here telling you they're wrong
  • _Sally_
    _Sally_ Posts: 514 Member
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    I'm under weight management through my doctor. I've seen 2 dieticians in the last week. My goal calories is 1400 to loose 2lb a week, without exercise. I'm burning anywhere around 500 to 1000 cals a day in exercise. I weigh 18st 4lb. The 2 dieticians have said because I'm so large I can run bigger deficits and because I'm exercising quite a lot my body won't go into starvation mode. They told me to eat 1400 and only eat extra if I feel hulengry or weak. So that's what I've been doing. I find on a 1000 cal burn day I want a couple hundred extra, but that's all I've had. I lost 4lb this week. It goes against what so many people say on here, but they are professionals so I'm confused. Any views for your experiences. They say when my weight is more like a normal person I will have to eat more, but I don't have to now because of my weight. Feeling confused right now. Can't help thinking this may come back to bite me! Zara
    P.S please bump me so that ill go to the top of the posts and get as many opinions as possible. Thanks

    Just my opinion....but unless there are health risks that your doctor is advising fast weight loss for, this plan that these dieticians are recommending may be setting you up for short-term success (which they profit from by another "success" story of a client), but you may struggle down the road in maintaining. Also, I have heard that it is better for skin elasticity to lose the weight slowly to give your skin ample time to respond and tighten up.

    You may want to check out the info and free calculators on www.fat2fitradio.com (I have no affiliation with them, just came across them recently and like their approach) for another perspective to help inform your decision. The guys that do these podcasts recommend that you calculate the maintenance calories of your target weight (and there may need to be some interim weight targets) and then eat at that level, so you would be eating like the thinner person you want to be and there would be no big switch to maintenance levels once you achieved your target, which many people struggle with. They recommend against too large of a deficit because you would be losing too much muscle and would be left with a much slower metabolism in he end, and unable to eat as much as you should be able to.

    The absolute minimum they recommend anyone eat is BMR * 1.20. I believe your 1400 calories may be below that, even without excercise calories. (and yes - you should eat back your exercise calories!)

    Just because someone is a "professional" doesn't mean you shouldn't be your own advocate and do your own research. It is YOUR body. Don't give your power away to anyone.

    Remember, you can pick a plan and then re-assess in a month or so and see if it still feels right for you. Most of us learn more about health and about our bodies along this journey to better health and fitness and need to tweak our plans along the way.

    Best of luck to you! Congratulations on making the decision and commitment to make your health a priority. You can do it!!