Why can't cardio build muscle? I don't get why not.
funkycamper
Posts: 998 Member
I've been reading here that cardio does not build muscle. I don't understand why it wouldn't. I get bored easily so I do a variety of exercises. I do C25k (although it will probably take me several months to get through the program as I usually only do it once or twice a week), Zumba, spinning, swimming, fitness walking up/down hills, bike-riding outdoors, step-aerobics, elliptical, and rowing machines. Different muscle groups are used in these and I'm toning up and losing inches without a lot of weight loss so I can only assume it's because I'm building muscle.
I do try to get some weight training in each week but the calorie burn is rather low so I only do it once a week most weeks. Although some weeks, if I'm in the mood for it, I do get in a second weight training session.
Anyway, the whole concept is confusing to me as, it seems to me, that anytime you are using your muscles to the point where the muscle is getting fatigued, you should be building muscle. Or, at the very least, strengthening the already-existent muscles and that is a good thing, too, isn't it? Right? Not right?
I'm just hoping somebody can explain this to me. Thanks in advance.
I do try to get some weight training in each week but the calorie burn is rather low so I only do it once a week most weeks. Although some weeks, if I'm in the mood for it, I do get in a second weight training session.
Anyway, the whole concept is confusing to me as, it seems to me, that anytime you are using your muscles to the point where the muscle is getting fatigued, you should be building muscle. Or, at the very least, strengthening the already-existent muscles and that is a good thing, too, isn't it? Right? Not right?
I'm just hoping somebody can explain this to me. Thanks in advance.
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I'm not good at explaining things, so I'm not much help.
But personally, I think running/swimming/rowing/etc does build lean muscle. [:0 -
From what I understand, cardio only builds new muscle if you're doing something that really stresses them. Like walking is good cardio, burns calories, but you probably won't build new muscle.. running up hills however, really gives those legs a workout. I think some of the high intensity interval training builds some muscle too, because you're pushing your body to the limit.
Weight training may not burn too many calories in itself, but your metabolic rate is based off your muscle mass. If you keep your muscles strong while losing weight, then you'll keep your metabolic rate higher, which should mean more calories burnt on a daily basis. This is why I do strength exercises along with the cardio I do, because I want to maintain as much of the muscle I have now at my higher weight, so I'm nice and strong and fast after losing weight too
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Cardio CAN build muscle, but not at the rate dedicated strength exercises do. If the cardio is strenuous and you can feel the burn in your muscles during and after, you're probably strengthening them.
Remember, though. You can't BUILD muscles unless you are eating a calorie surplus. You can only strengthen them but they will stay the same size. Also, as soon as you get used to that cardio exercise, keeping up the cardio will maintain that muscle but it won't strengthen forever unless you boost the intensity - like when weight lifters increase the weight they're lifting.0 -
I do interval training. Both HIIT and resistance intervals. My legs are insanely strong. [:0
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From what I understand, cardio only builds new muscle if you're doing something that really stresses them. Like walking is good cardio, burns calories, but you probably won't build new muscle.. running up hills however, really gives those legs a workout. I think some of the high intensity interval training builds some muscle too, because you're pushing your body to the limit.
Weight training may not burn too many calories in itself, but your metabolic rate is based off your muscle mass. If you keep your muscles strong while losing weight, then you'll keep your metabolic rate higher, which should mean more calories burnt on a daily basis. This is why I do strength exercises along with the cardio I do, because I want to maintain as much of the muscle I have now at my higher weight, so I'm nice and strong and fast after losing weight too
When I do fitness walking, I'm walking at a fast pace and going up and down steep hills. My legs are zonked from it. Just as zonked as they are after a C25k workout (which is kinda like HIIT training). So why wouldn't I be building muscle from the fitness walking?
In fact, all the cardio I do really stresses my muscles. I'm zonked when I'm done and have some muscle soreness and even, sometimes, extreme muscle fatigue...ya know, like I can barely walk to my car and dread climbing the stairs from my basement garage into the house type of fatigue. So I'm finding it hard to believe I'm not building muscle. Especially since I've only lost 4# but all my pants are loose...some falling off loose. So I can only assume it's because I'm toning up, i.e. building muscle.
Again, not opposed to weight training but I only have limited hours to exercise and would rather burn calories and keep my weight training to only once a week, twice at most. Also, I've been researching and new muscle burns about 30-35 calories per day. I don't dispute that building muscle is a good thing for overall fitness and I wouldn't mind more muscle to burn more calories. That's a good thing.
What doesn't make sense to me is statements on this board that cardio doesn't build muscle. In fact, I've even read posts where people claim that you will lose muscle with cardio. Huh? Now, I can see that you will lose muscle mass in your upper-body if you are doing strictly running for marathons, but that's an extreme situation and not what I'm talking about.
Again, if the muscle is getting a hard workout to the point of fatigue and soreness, how can it not be getting built regardless if the soreness and fatigue is from weight training or cardio?0 -
Cardio CAN build muscle, but not at the rate dedicated strength exercises do. If the cardio is strenuous and you can feel the burn in your muscles during and after, you're probably strengthening them.
Remember, though. You can't BUILD muscles unless you are eating a calorie surplus. You can only strengthen them but they will stay the same size. Also, as soon as you get used to that cardio exercise, keeping up the cardio will maintain that muscle but it won't strengthen forever unless you boost the intensity - like when weight lifters increase the weight they're lifting.
From what I'm reading, muscle burns about 35 calories a day. If weight training only burns about 200 calories when I do it, versus burning 500 or so with intense cardio, then I'm 300 calories behind for the day in what I could have burned.
And, of course as I get fitter, I would be increasing my cardio intensity. When I first started C25k, I ran a lot slower than I do now. Heck, my walking was even slower. My spinning is faster, my bike riding is faster, I'm fitness walking up hills faster, I can do the elliptical faster and at a higher intensity. I'm still new to getting back into shape so I'm not saying I'm doing any of this super-duper faster than before but I am seeing speed and intensity gains.
Well, at least you are all saying that cardio does build muscle so I know I'm not whacked. I've just read through several other threads on these boards where people are saying that you lose muscle with cardio and that makes no sense to me at all.0 -
I do interval training. Both HIIT and resistance intervals. My legs are insanely strong. [:
I know what HIIT is but I've never heard of resistance intervals. What is that?0 -
I do a lot of my exercises on machines. Elliptical, arc trainer, bike, etc. They all have resistance levels. I do intervals.0
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I run, use the eliptical, row and walk with a bit of lower body resistance training.
I do use weights on my arms.
My legs are my best feature.
I'm proud of my muscles in my legs.
cardio that works the muscles builds muscle. It has to. otherwise I'd just be bone!0 -
Cardio is to get the heart going, not to build muscles. To warm the muscles up to work out or train.
To build muscles you need to use weights. You sound like you train more than me, and I train 5 times a week. I just need to get my diet sorted. Good luck and hope that helped! xx
Also when you train you have to get out of your comfort zone, get out of breath make everything a challenge. You should see a difference... x0 -
Just read yours, I should of put more in mine, so much to do and no time, feel silly now! But I still stick to what I wrote x0
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Just read yours, I should of put more in mine, so much to do and no time, feel silly now! But I still stick to what I wrote xI run, use the eliptical, row and walk with a bit of lower body resistance training.
I do use weights on my arms.
My legs are my best feature.
I'm proud of my muscles in my legs.
cardio that works the muscles builds muscle. It has to. otherwise I'd just be bone!0 -
Cardio CAN build muscle.
Agree. I have only just started resistance training (ie done it three times) so my muscles have so far been built purely from cardio. My legs especially. I'm fed-up with reading that you have to do weights to build muscle/not end up "skinny fat" or whatever.Remember, though. You can't BUILD muscles unless you are eating a calorie surplus.
Have to disagree with this though. Again, I'm in a calorie deficit and my muscles have definiately built up...they are much larger than they were 50 days ago. My muscles require calories to build, but not ALL of the calories I eat. So I must be eating the calories my muscles need (proteins) in surplus, and cutting back on calories they don't need elsewhere.
Keeping in mind that I don't think anyone is talking powerlifting here, we are talking about weight loss and general fitness/strength,
I look at it this way, my muscles don't care if the resistance is coming from a weights machine or the pedals of a bike, it's resistance.0 -
What is hard to understand here cardio IS weight training, when I run I push 200 lbs + with every single step, perhaps 8000 to 9000 reps per hour, how is that not weight training?0
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I agree - cardio CAN build muscle. In fact, I rely on it for my leg workouts.
I have packed on an inch on my calves (now 17") from doing fast walking (almost 4 miles an hour in a hilly area) and an inch on my thighs (now 25") from cycling, RPM and the P90X Plyometrics DVD.... all within a month.
That said, while you CAN build muscle doing cardio, if building muscle is your aim it is an inefficient way of doing it. I'm sure I could have made the same gains from doing calf raises for ten minutes as I did from Power Walking for 2 hours, or from squatting for 15 minutes rather than doing an hour of cycling or plyo. However, my goals were calorie burning and fat loss, so these activities suit me better - the muscle gain is just a nice bonus.0 -
Any exercise that causes tension in the muscles can cause you to add mass to that muscle. So running would hardly cause any tension but climbing hills with a bicycle would put a lot of tension on your quads.0
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A lot of people are confusing "increased strength" with "increased muscle mass". The first mechanism for increasing strength is called "neuromuscular facilitation". Essentially, you learn how to use your existing muscles fibers to generate more forces. People can increase their strength by 100% without ever substantially increasing the size of the muscle.
Any exercise activities results in physical adaptation. The exact nature of the adaptation depends on the specific demands of that activity. Once those demands are met, there will be no further adaptation.
If a sedentary person starts doing cardio. they will likely see a measurable increase in muscle strength levels--that is part of the initial adaptation to the demands of the activity. That will eventually plateau, as most cardio exercise does not place enough of a "load" on a muscle to continue overloading it. At what point that plateau occurs depends on the nature of the exercise.
However, this adaptation is not the same as resistance training. One need only look at the type of training being performed: to see consistent gains in strength training, one must work the muscle to a state of temporary "failure" in 1-12 repetitions (the actual number is not relevant, as you'll see). If that is the stimulus needed to increase strength, how can one expect to get the same results performing a movement, like running for example, that one can repeat for hundreds or thousands of repetitions without reaching "failure"?
The answer is easy: you can't. The one possible "exception" might be if one is doing a huge volume of cardio that has specific physical demands--professional cyclists and speedskaters come to mind. But we are talking about hours and hours a day of training for years, plus the resistance of climbing hills, plus the self-selection of extreme genetic types who make it to that level. For all intents and purposes, the average person will not see those effects.0 -
Another thing: when it comes to permanent weight loss and actual increases in muscle mass, the research is consistent, if not unequivocal.
While one can maintain FFM doing large volumes of cardio with appropriate refeeding and protein intake, almost all studies show that significant increases in FFM occur only when resistance training is added to cardio.0 -
http://www.notyouraveragefitnesstips.com/beginners-workouts/aerobic-vs-anaerobic-exercise-low-intensity-vs-high-intensity
Check out this link. They lay it out nicely. Basically we are talking about the difference between aerobic exercise and anaerobic exercise. One using oxygen for endurance and burning fat, and the other using glycogen stores to build muscle. Hope this helps.0 -
I'm not good at explaining things, so I'm not much help.
But personally, I think running/swimming/rowing/etc does build lean muscle. [:
Sorry to disagree, but cardio actually burns lean muscle.0 -
Running etc DOES build muscle, but only up to a point. At the point where the muscles you have can do what you are asking them to efficiently, you don't build any more. Also, you only build the muscles you are using so running and cycling won't do anything for your arms, for example. Rowing is quite good for using all muscle groups.
I run and do press ups mostly, but do circuit training twice a week as well, which is alternate minutes of light weights (too light for my preference, as I am quite strong) and cardio (sprints, bunny hops, skipping and steps).0 -
I'm not good at explaining things, so I'm not much help.
But personally, I think running/swimming/rowing/etc does build lean muscle. [:
Sorry to disagree, but cardio actually burns lean muscle.
Only if you aren't eating enough to fuel the work outs you are doing, and only after glycogen and fat stores have been exhausted!0 -
I'm not good at explaining things, so I'm not much help.
But personally, I think running/swimming/rowing/etc does build lean muscle. [:
Sorry to disagree, but cardio actually burns lean muscle.
Only if you aren't eating enough to fuel the work outs you are doing, and only after glycogen and fat stores have been exhausted!
Sorry to disagree again, but cardio burns lean muscle because it is an aerobic exercise. You will not immediately burn glycogen and fat, your body will burn lean muscle FIRST. Glycogen is the last item in your body to get burned. This is why a routine with both cardio and weight training is the best answer. Common misconception, but after years of training for both police and military I have found this to be true.0 -
I do interval training. Both HIIT and resistance intervals. My legs are insanely strong. [:
You do have awesome legs.0 -
A lot of people are confusing "increased strength" with "increased muscle mass". The first mechanism for increasing strength is called "neuromuscular facilitation". Essentially, you learn how to use your existing muscles fibers to generate more forces. People can increase their strength by 100% without ever substantially increasing the size of the muscle.
Any exercise activities results in physical adaptation. The exact nature of the adaptation depends on the specific demands of that activity. Once those demands are met, there will be no further adaptation.
If a sedentary person starts doing cardio. they will likely see a measurable increase in muscle strength levels--that is part of the initial adaptation to the demands of the activity. That will eventually plateau, as most cardio exercise does not place enough of a "load" on a muscle to continue overloading it. At what point that plateau occurs depends on the nature of the exercise.
However, this adaptation is not the same as resistance training. One need only look at the type of training being performed: to see consistent gains in strength training, one must work the muscle to a state of temporary "failure" in 1-12 repetitions (the actual number is not relevant, as you'll see). If that is the stimulus needed to increase strength, how can one expect to get the same results performing a movement, like running for example, that one can repeat for hundreds or thousands of repetitions without reaching "failure"?
The answer is easy: you can't. The one possible "exception" might be if one is doing a huge volume of cardio that has specific physical demands--professional cyclists and speedskaters come to mind. But we are talking about hours and hours a day of training for years, plus the resistance of climbing hills, plus the self-selection of extreme genetic types who make it to that level. For all intents and purposes, the average person will not see those effects.
^^^^THIS!!!^^^^
Very eloquently stated. No one is attacking the benefits of cardio, but they are much different than those of strength training with heavy weights. There are a lot of very knowledgeable people on here who will be thrilled to help you create a weight lifting program that you can work into your schedule, if you are interested. If you only want to hear support for your own opinion that cardio is physiologically equivalent to weight training, however... can't be of much help there.0 -
I'm not good at explaining things, so I'm not much help.
But personally, I think running/swimming/rowing/etc does build lean muscle. [:
Sorry to disagree, but cardio actually burns lean muscle.
Only if you aren't eating enough to fuel the work outs you are doing, and only after glycogen and fat stores have been exhausted!
Sorry to disagree again, but cardio burns lean muscle because it is an aerobic exercise. You will not immediately burn glycogen and fat, your body will burn lean muscle FIRST. Glycogen is the last item in your body to get burned. This is why a routine with both cardio and weight training is the best answer. Common misconception, but after years of training for both police and military I have found this to be true.
Err. No, glycogen is the first thing we burn (after ATP and Creatine). Then fat. THEN muscle.0 -
I run on the treadmil a lot and my legs have def. gained muscle!0
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Any exercise that causes tension in the muscles can cause you to add mass to that muscle. So running would hardly cause any tension but climbing hills with a bicycle would put a lot of tension on your quads.
Is this tension something that might be different for different people, depending on beginning fitness level, weight, etc.? I am 190 pounds and have a lot of weight to lose. When I started exercising and tracking meals/exercise here at MFP, the only exercise I had done for the last 10 years or so, with any regularity, was walking my dogs on a relatively flat trail. When I decided to get healthy and fit again (and lose weight), I decided to mix it up and do a wide variety of exercises instead of repeating the same type of class/exercise all the time.
My reasons for such a variety of workouts are (1) I get bored easy so doing something different all the time makes it more fun for me; and (2) I don't want to be working out the same muscles all the time in the same way. It seems to me that the wider variety of exercises will lead to a greater range of fitness as the same muscles aren't being worked in the same way all the time.
With all of these different types of exercises, I feel like I'm putting stress on my muscles. When I do my C25k workout, for example, I can barely make it through all the cycles. Same for all the other fitness classes. For example, when spinning, I sometimes have to sit and spin while the class is standing because my muscles are too tired to stand any longer and even sitting/spinning is a real challenge. Or when the rest of the class is standing spinning while doing push-ups over the handle-bars, I might get in a few push-ups and then just stand/spin because I just can't do another push-up and even standing/spinning is really pushing it for me. When doing step aerobics, I sometimes have to just do the arm movements and march in place without going up and down on the step because my legs just can't do anymore stepping without a bit of a rest break.
So wouldn't that be tension and, thus, building muscle? If I'm working out the muscle group to such fatigue, how could it not be building muscle?
Not trying to be difficult. Just trying to understand.0 -
Any exercise that causes tension in the muscles can cause you to add mass to that muscle. So running would hardly cause any tension but climbing hills with a bicycle would put a lot of tension on your quads.
Is this tension something that might be different for different people, depending on beginning fitness level, weight, etc.? I am 190 pounds and have a lot of weight to lose. When I started exercising and tracking meals/exercise here at MFP, the only exercise I had done for the last 10 years or so, with any regularity, was walking my dogs on a relatively flat trail. When I decided to get healthy and fit again (and lose weight), I decided to mix it up and do a wide variety of exercises instead of repeating the same type of class/exercise all the time.
My reasons for such a variety of workouts are (1) I get bored easy so doing something different all the time makes it more fun for me; and (2) I don't want to be working out the same muscles all the time in the same way. It seems to me that the wider variety of exercises will lead to a greater range of fitness as the same muscles aren't being worked in the same way all the time.
With all of these different types of exercises, I feel like I'm putting stress on my muscles. When I do my C25k workout, for example, I can barely make it through all the cycles. Same for all the other fitness classes. For example, when spinning, I sometimes have to sit and spin while the class is standing because my muscles are too tired to stand any longer and even sitting/spinning is a real challenge. Or when the rest of the class is standing spinning while doing push-ups over the handle-bars, I might get in a few push-ups and then just stand/spin because I just can't do another push-up and even standing/spinning is really pushing it for me. When doing step aerobics, I sometimes have to just do the arm movements and march in place without going up and down on the step because my legs just can't do anymore stepping without a bit of a rest break.
So wouldn't that be tension and, thus, building muscle? If I'm working out the muscle group to such fatigue, how could it not be building muscle?
Not trying to be difficult. Just trying to understand.
What you are describing is more related to muscle endurance as opposed to pure strength (or size). Tension does not necessarily mean the same as "fatigue". It's the amount of actual loading on the muscle.0 -
Err. No, glycogen is the first thing we burn (after ATP and Creatine). Then fat. THEN muscle.
The ONLY thing we burn is ATP, ATP is the currency for movement. All the energy systems produce ATP out of other substances.
The biproduct of burning ATP is Adenosie Bi-Phosphate, which combines with creatine phospate to get back to being adenosine TRI-phospoate for that secondary boost that can last a few seconds longer.
Order of events
Anaerobic cycle:
-Burn stored ATP in muscle
-uptake ABP that has been recombined with creatine phosphate to make a little more ATP
-Switch to glycolitic or lactic acid system which creates glucose and lactic acid from glycogen in blood, spitting out some more ATP
-Aerobic system next which uses glucose and oxygen
-Fatty acid oxydosis which uses fat for fuel, along with oxygen, providing the most ATP for until of input, but as a slow process is meant for long distances
The more time you spend in the upper portions of this cycle, the more muscle size you will build, as the more muscle you have, the more ATP and creatine muscle glycogen you can store, and the more lactic acid they can tolerate
The more time you spend int he lower portions of this cycle (aerobic portions), the more your adaption will be to REDUCE muscle size, to make those muscles MORE efficient so they use less oxygen and less sugar or fat to do the same job. It takes less ATP to push skinny little legs through a marathon then it does HUGE speed skater type legs.
So if you want HUGE legs like speed skaters, sprinters, do hill sprints, dashes of up to a quarter mile, intervals, etc... to keep moving in and out of the top of the chain which depletes in total in about 2 minutes (4 minutes if you are HIGHLY trained).
Or lift weights for 12 reps or less to failure, which is 100% anaerobic.0
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