A Case Against Cardio

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ukhennin
ukhennin Posts: 221 Member
in Fitness and Exercise
http://www.marksdailyapple.com/case-against-cardio/

I found this article to be pretty interesting and it has me reconsidering how much cardio I include in my weekly routine. Since cardio seems rampant around here and weight training is usually a tough pill for people to swallow, I'm curious to see what thoughts on this article will be.
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Replies

  • Drunkadelic
    Drunkadelic Posts: 948 Member
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    Mark Sission is the man!
  • mad4beinhere
    mad4beinhere Posts: 63 Member
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    With out reading the article, strength training is actually better for you with lower intensity cardio with bursts.......
  • Acg67
    Acg67 Posts: 12,142 Member
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    i'm not a huge fan of cardio, i maybe get in an hr or so a week, more LISS then intervals.

    And if you're running a big deficit, a ton of cardio could do more harm then good
  • carolinedb
    carolinedb Posts: 236 Member
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    Personally, I believe both cardio and strength training have a place in my workout regime. Along with yoga. What I have trouble swallowing is the 5,000,000 conflicting opinions on the "best" exercise for weight loss. The fact of the matter is, whatever exercise you're going to do and enjoy is the best for you, whether that's long endurance cardio, intense HIIT, Pilates, yoga, strength training, Zumba, spinning, or any combination of these and the many types of exercise you can do.
  • TurnOnToLife
    TurnOnToLife Posts: 10 Member
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    Depends on the goal. And don't forget to factor in enjoyment. The best exercise is the type you enjoy. I've been focusing on short (20-30 minute) workouts based on high intensity strength training, and I'm in the best shape I've been in in 10 years. And totally digging it!
  • trac3
    trac3 Posts: 134 Member
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    Personally, I believe both cardio and strength training have a place in my workout regime. Along with yoga. What I have trouble swallowing is the 5,000,000 conflicting opinions on the "best" exercise for weight loss. The fact of the matter is, whatever exercise you're going to do and enjoy is the best for you, whether that's long endurance cardio, intense HIIT, Pilates, yoga, strength training, Zumba, spinning, or any combination of these and the many types of exercise you can do.

    Ditto!:smile:
  • chrisdavey
    chrisdavey Posts: 9,835 Member
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    mix it up. Doesn't have to be one or the other.
  • ukhennin
    ukhennin Posts: 221 Member
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    I didn't intend for the article to mean that all cardio is bad. I was just trying to point out that it's probably not as great as the general public thinks. I sort of get the feeling that not many people read the article though. That's okay. It's pretty long and indepth. I just thought it would be nice to get some opinions on the article, not just cardio in general.
  • daves160
    daves160 Posts: 600
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    It makes a lot of sense. Everyday high intensity cardio can really wear you out.

    I have found that I do much better cycling when I ride 2-3 times a week. When riding, I always do intermittent sprints(I have to because I live in the hills), but my heart rate is always elevated.
    Other days, I get a quick warm up and then it is all Martial arts training. I always make sure I get a day of rest each week as well.

    But like others said, it is the exercise we enjoy that is going to give us the most. Just because we will stick with it.

    I suppose one of the points the author was getting at is not to get obsessed with it. We all need balance in our lives, even in exercising.
  • Azdak
    Azdak Posts: 8,281 Member
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    To me this article seemed more ideologically driven than anything else-- a loose collection of myopia, strawman arguments, false assumptions, and "explanations" with little or no valid scientific research presented to support them.

    Other than that it was just fine.

    This is what happens when people use themselves as the "baseline" against which all facts must be judged.

    HE states the "popular wisdom" is:
    we would all be better off doing 45 minutes to an hour a day of intense aerobic activity


    And that the "popular wisdom":
    has created a generation of overtrained, underfit, immune-compromised exerholics.

    First of all, there is NO professional organization, national health organization, or even any health "expert" who recommends 45-60 min of "intense aerobic activity" per day. HE followed such a program, but that only "proves" he was obsessive, competitive, and a dumbass. This is a classic straw man argument.

    Secondly, there is no study that I am aware of that indicates that the majority of people are overtrained, underfit, immune-compromised exerholics. Only about 25% of all Americans follow a regular exercise program AT ALL, and the number who do 45-60 min of intense aerobic activity is likely in the singe digits, if not less than a single percentage digit.

    The author then cites his own experience as "proof" of his conclusions: 20+ years as a competitive athlete, pushing himself harder and harder, driving himself to score more "Cooper points".

    Anyone else seeing the pattern here? "I was compulsive and obsessive and really ignorant--but it's the fault of the 'popular wisdom' that I wasn't successful". Even more ironic is his citing the Cooper point system as "evidence" of misguided cardio guidelines.

    Ken Cooper was ALWAYS adamant that a moderate level of aerobic exercise was sufficient for optimal health benefits. He was the original "3 days a week, 20 minutes per day" guy and rarely wavered from that standard, even during the "running boom" when long distance running was being held up as the "gold standard". He never advocated using the Cooper point system as a contest--20 points was all you needed, IIRC.

    He next moves on to his next round of self-infatuation--describing the various illnesses and injuries he suffered, and comes to the breathtaking conclusion:
    In retrospect, it is clear now that my carbohydrate-fueled high-intensity aerobic lifestyle was promoting a dangerous level of continuous systemic inflammation, was severely suppressing other parts of my immune system and the increased oxidative damage was generally tearing apart my precious muscle and joint tissue.

    How is this "clear"? I don't know--no data or evidence is ever given, just the certainty that, when viewed through his current ideological lens, the past can all be seen as fitting some "predestined" pattern.

    The rest just devolves into additional blah blah blah doctrine of his new religion--I know he's a big "primal" guy. Quite frankly, at that point it was just a long litany of unsupported editorializing that I did not have the patience to examine in detail.

    The thing is, with a broader base of knowledge and a touch of empathy, the topic could have been addressed in a constructive way that might have added to people's knowledge. There are plenty of different ways to exercise and doing a combination of moderate aerobics, high-intensity interval training, and resistance exercise could work just fine for many people.

    But this just seemed more like religious proselytizing than anything else.
  • BettyMargaret
    BettyMargaret Posts: 407 Member
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    To me this article seemed more ideologically driven than anything else-- a loose collection of myopia, strawman arguments, false assumptions, and "explanations" with little or no valid scientific research presented to support them.

    Other than that it was just fine.

    This is what happens when people use themselves as the "baseline" against which all facts must be judged.

    HE states the "popular wisdom" is:
    we would all be better off doing 45 minutes to an hour a day of intense aerobic activity


    And that the "popular wisdom":
    has created a generation of overtrained, underfit, immune-compromised exerholics.

    First of all, there is NO professional organization, national health organization, or even any health "expert" who recommends 45-60 min of "intense aerobic activity" per day. HE followed such a program, but that only "proves" he was obsessive, competitive, and a dumbass. This is a classic straw man argument.

    Secondly, there is no study that I am aware of that indicates that the majority of people are overtrained, underfit, immune-compromised exerholics. Only about 25% of all Americans follow a regular exercise program AT ALL, and the number who do 45-60 min of intense aerobic activity is likely in the singe digits, if not less than a single percentage digit.

    The author then cites his own experience as "proof" of his conclusions: 20+ years as a competitive athlete, pushing himself harder and harder, driving himself to score more "Cooper points".

    Anyone else seeing the pattern here? "I was compulsive and obsessive and really ignorant--but it's the fault of the 'popular wisdom' that I wasn't successful". Even more ironic is his citing the Cooper point system as "evidence" of misguided cardio guidelines.

    Ken Cooper was ALWAYS adamant that a moderate level of aerobic exercise was sufficient for optimal health benefits. He was the original "3 days a week, 20 minutes per day" guy and rarely wavered from that standard, even during the "running boom" when long distance running was being held up as the "gold standard". He never advocated using the Cooper point system as a contest--20 points was all you needed, IIRC.

    He next moves on to his next round of self-infatuation--describing the various illnesses and injuries he suffered, and comes to the breathtaking conclusion:
    In retrospect, it is clear now that my carbohydrate-fueled high-intensity aerobic lifestyle was promoting a dangerous level of continuous systemic inflammation, was severely suppressing other parts of my immune system and the increased oxidative damage was generally tearing apart my precious muscle and joint tissue.

    How is this "clear"? I don't know--no data or evidence is ever given, just the certainty that, when viewed through his current ideological lens, the past can all be seen as fitting some "predestined" pattern.

    The rest just devolves into additional blah blah blah doctrine of his new religion--I know he's a big "primal" guy. Quite frankly, at that point it was just a long litany of unsupported editorializing that I did not have the patience to examine in detail.

    The thing is, with a broader base of knowledge and a touch of empathy, the topic could have been addressed in a constructive way that might have added to people's knowledge. There are plenty of different ways to exercise and doing a combination of moderate aerobics, high-intensity interval training, and resistance exercise could work just fine for many people.

    But this just seemed more like religious proselytizing than anything else.

    THAT'S what I was gonna say!!!:flowerforyou:
  • rileysowner
    rileysowner Posts: 8,161 Member
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    Cardio has its place, although I think that there are a surprising number of people who I see here quite literally doing not 20-30 or even 50-60 minutes a day, but 120 minutes or more a day every day thinking that will help them lose weight. In some sense they are correct, but at the same time doing cardio for that length of time every day is counter productive. They would be better served by doing less cardio and incorporating other training methodologies into that time they obviously have to exercise, and they would find the results from doing so far better than the 2 hours a day on the elliptical.
  • Pebble321
    Pebble321 Posts: 6,554 Member
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    I'm always wary of an article that ends not with a list of references, but with an advertisement for the "Master Formula", whatever that may be, I certainly won't be checking it out.

    I think the overtraining premise has some merit, I see so many people on this site burning enormous numbers of cals each day with intense workouts, then not being able to eat enough to sustain this level of activity - which just seems unwise and unsustainable.

    For the author to generalise his past experiences to all modern people and his current practices to all "primal" people seems self-indulgent and really not very helpful.

    Of course, I could have just said "I agree with Azdak".
  • 4theking
    4theking Posts: 1,196 Member
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    Anyone that know me, knows I am not a fan of cardio. I absolutely hate running and getting nowhere like a mindless gerbil.

    I guess it just depends on what your goals are. If you want the thin, scrawny look, then run for miles. If you want the muscular sprinters look, then sprint. The idea that cardio is the only way you get ripped and a sixpack is quite ridiculous. I have read that myth many times and it drives me crazy. If anything, too much cardio does just the opposite of what the desired outcome is. If you work your body to death, your fat burning hormones will lower and your metabolism will lower and muscle will be lost.
  • XFitMojoMom
    XFitMojoMom Posts: 3,255 Member
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    Although a "Primal BoneHead" myself... I would have to agree with Adzak
    There are plenty of different ways to exercise and doing a combination of moderate aerobics, high-intensity interval training, and resistance exercise could work just fine for many people.

    There are plenty of articles supporting this, and to cite a few:
    http://graemethomasonline.com/why-females-fail-with-steady-state-cardio/
    http://graemethomasonline.com/ladies-cardio-sucks-for-weight-loss/

    Personally I crossfit, and while I'm plagued with metabolic syndrome and familial hypercholesterolemia, there has been dramatic body composition changes. If you just want to lose weight, Crossfit is not for you. If you want to get stronger and change your body and life, then give it a shot.
  • meagalayne
    meagalayne Posts: 3,382 Member
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    Do what you love to do and what makes you happy - Then add in some stuff that makes you miserable once in a while as a reminder that hard work pays off :wink:

    It's not supposed to be fun ALL the time, right? haha
  • koosdel
    koosdel Posts: 3,319 Member
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    I prefer endurance training, over cardio.:tongue:
  • surfinbernard
    surfinbernard Posts: 53
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    I had a very similar experience to the author of this article. Last time I was where I am now (loosing the baby-weight) I was doing hour after hour of cardio each week and found my weight loss ground to a screeching halt despite 'on paper' being in a massive weekly calorie deficit so the weight ought to have been dropping off (and I had a BMI of say 22 so had room to spare to lose a fair bit more) and I kept getting injuries, one after another and colds. Plus my fitness, although obviously at an acceptable level, was just not improving any further. So he has a point and a very good one in my opinion.
  • AlsDonkBoxSquat
    AlsDonkBoxSquat Posts: 6,128 Member
    Options
    To me this article seemed more ideologically driven than anything else-- a loose collection of myopia, strawman arguments, false assumptions, and "explanations" with little or no valid scientific research presented to support them.

    Other than that it was just fine.

    This is what happens when people use themselves as the "baseline" against which all facts must be judged.

    HE states the "popular wisdom" is:
    we would all be better off doing 45 minutes to an hour a day of intense aerobic activity


    And that the "popular wisdom":
    has created a generation of overtrained, underfit, immune-compromised exerholics.

    First of all, there is NO professional organization, national health organization, or even any health "expert" who recommends 45-60 min of "intense aerobic activity" per day. HE followed such a program, but that only "proves" he was obsessive, competitive, and a dumbass. This is a classic straw man argument.

    Secondly, there is no study that I am aware of that indicates that the majority of people are overtrained, underfit, immune-compromised exerholics. Only about 25% of all Americans follow a regular exercise program AT ALL, and the number who do 45-60 min of intense aerobic activity is likely in the singe digits, if not less than a single percentage digit.

    The author then cites his own experience as "proof" of his conclusions: 20+ years as a competitive athlete, pushing himself harder and harder, driving himself to score more "Cooper points".

    Anyone else seeing the pattern here? "I was compulsive and obsessive and really ignorant--but it's the fault of the 'popular wisdom' that I wasn't successful". Even more ironic is his citing the Cooper point system as "evidence" of misguided cardio guidelines.

    Ken Cooper was ALWAYS adamant that a moderate level of aerobic exercise was sufficient for optimal health benefits. He was the original "3 days a week, 20 minutes per day" guy and rarely wavered from that standard, even during the "running boom" when long distance running was being held up as the "gold standard". He never advocated using the Cooper point system as a contest--20 points was all you needed, IIRC.

    He next moves on to his next round of self-infatuation--describing the various illnesses and injuries he suffered, and comes to the breathtaking conclusion:
    In retrospect, it is clear now that my carbohydrate-fueled high-intensity aerobic lifestyle was promoting a dangerous level of continuous systemic inflammation, was severely suppressing other parts of my immune system and the increased oxidative damage was generally tearing apart my precious muscle and joint tissue.

    How is this "clear"? I don't know--no data or evidence is ever given, just the certainty that, when viewed through his current ideological lens, the past can all be seen as fitting some "predestined" pattern.

    The rest just devolves into additional blah blah blah doctrine of his new religion--I know he's a big "primal" guy. Quite frankly, at that point it was just a long litany of unsupported editorializing that I did not have the patience to examine in detail.

    The thing is, with a broader base of knowledge and a touch of empathy, the topic could have been addressed in a constructive way that might have added to people's knowledge. There are plenty of different ways to exercise and doing a combination of moderate aerobics, high-intensity interval training, and resistance exercise could work just fine for many people.

    But this just seemed more like religious proselytizing than anything else.

    This is a much more intelligent and informed rebuttal than I could come up with, but does have some knowledge in it that I did know before. To add to it, it is a blog, yes it's stated as if it is scentific fact but the fact of the matter is that he's using loose science and loose interpretations intertwined with studied facts to support his beliefs about his experiences and then attempting to extrapolate them out to a broader audience. I'm not as old as he is, but almost (I'm 33) and I can tell you that he lays a lot of blame on "popular belief" and what not. I was a competitive athlete during that same period of time and know for a fact that interval training, active rest, and the benefits of weight training were also out there and in use . . . he just chose a different path. Just because he needed life to make the changes for him because he couldn't wrap his mind around the science that was out there 20 years ago means that the things he experienced were his own fault, but it's nice to lay blame else where. I think that there are some cardio-aholics out there that could benefit from this article, but I know that many of the coaches, trainers, and athletes that I've come in contact with over the past 20 - 25 years have pushed interval training work along with variety.
  • joejccva71
    joejccva71 Posts: 2,985 Member
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    Cardio has it's place but for weight loss it's not really required. Diet is 100 times more important.

    Also according to Lyle McDonald with his UD 2.0, doing cardio for a woman is a requirement while with men it's optional so take that for what it's worth. This is for burning fat/losing weight.

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