Intermittent fasting
wxlaw
Posts: 25 Member
I just learned about intermittent fasting but I'm curious that when you lose weight through intermittent fasting, are your body breaking down more muscle than fat? In addition, would you suggest to do intermittent fasting rather than regular 3 meals a day?
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Replies
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When you lose weight, you lose muscle and fat. If you starve yourself, you'll lose a lager proportion of muscles. Intermittent fasting is following one of several "protocols" - 16:8, 18:6, 5:2 etc. You can do intermittent fasting eating 3 meals a day. I would suggest you find a way of eating that is sustainable for you.2
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IF, in and of itself, won't have any meaningful bearing on muscle breakdown.
I would suggest doing whatever is easier for you to sustain.2 -
All intermittent fasting is is a smaller window of time that you allow yourself to eat. Some people feel they can stick to their calories better eating for only eight hours (or ten, or six, or whatever time frame they choose). Others prefer the standard breakfast/lunch/dinner breakdown. When and how often you eat is personal preference. I do 14:10 most days but it's based on my work schedule and not my diet.2
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I fast, haven't noticed any muscle loss or any major muscle loss let me correct that. I still can do the same weight in my muscles as I was able to before I started any of this. I mainly do 19:5 or 18:62
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rickiimarieee wrote: »I fast, haven't noticed any muscle loss or any major muscle loss let me correct that. I still can do the same weight in my muscles as I was able to before I started any of this. I mainly do 19:5 or 18:6
you cant tell if you are losing muscle unless you get a dexa scan or something along those lines.its not going to be visible on the outside.
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CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »rickiimarieee wrote: »I fast, haven't noticed any muscle loss or any major muscle loss let me correct that. I still can do the same weight in my muscles as I was able to before I started any of this. I mainly do 19:5 or 18:6
you cant tell if you are losing muscle unless you get a dexa scan or something along those lines.its not going to be visible on the outside.
You would be able to tell if you lost a large amount because of what you're able to withstand weight wise. I still bench, squat, lunge all the same weight as before! But anyways I heard about the dexa scan wish they had that around where I live!1 -
I tend to switch to IF when my calorie goal make the three meals too small. I can do three meals of 700 calories, but when I go to 3 x 600 calories I'm perpetually hungry. Then I switch to IF and skip breakfast and have two 900 calories meals. I tend to have more will power in the morning and the hunger does seem to subside. I am not as hungry in the evening, when I am at home and have easy access to food.4
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Much like Dalton, I find two larger meals keeps me fuller than three smaller ones.
My calorie goal is 1500 (although I usually get around 1400), and two 700-750cal meals are spot on. With just 500 calories a meal, I'm far hungrier.
Give it a bash. If you don't like it, don't do it!3 -
All intermittent fasting is is a smaller window of time that you allow yourself to eat. Some people feel they can stick to their calories better eating for only eight hours (or ten, or six, or whatever time frame they choose). Others prefer the standard breakfast/lunch/dinner breakdown. When and how often you eat is personal preference. I do 14:10 most days but it's based on my work schedule and not my diet.
YES, totally!
Meal timing is mostly not relevant, however, if it makes your life easier to eat less frequently or makes it easier to hit your food goals, then by all means give it a try.
I have successfully gained muscle (as determined via tape measurements and strength increases) even while 16:8
It's not going to magically make you lose weight to eat less frequently. Eating less frequently might help you control your food intake if that is an area you feel the need to improve.0 -
rickiimarieee wrote: »CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »rickiimarieee wrote: »I fast, haven't noticed any muscle loss or any major muscle loss let me correct that. I still can do the same weight in my muscles as I was able to before I started any of this. I mainly do 19:5 or 18:6
you cant tell if you are losing muscle unless you get a dexa scan or something along those lines.its not going to be visible on the outside.
You would be able to tell if you lost a large amount because of what you're able to withstand weight wise. I still bench, squat, lunge all the same weight as before! But anyways I heard about the dexa scan wish they had that around where I live!
that may not be true. you can build up strength and while doing so doesnt mean you build muscle. so the same could be true about losing muscle. you can lose muscle mass as you age as well. doesnt always mean you will get weaker. if you are lifting weights and getting enough protein you arent going to lose a lot of muscle mass which is why its recommended to lift heavy and get enough protein. but if someone has never lifted there is no sure way to tell if they lost mass. I havent lifted in months yet I have not gotten any weaker. I can still lift what I was lifting
now if you lose a lot of mass it may be noticeable or you can end up what they call skinny fat. but its very hard to tell without a scan of some kind.
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I often skip breakfast. That way I'm only "hungry" for a small period of time, and it's a period of time I usually better at resisting temptation (more awake, busier, etc). It makes it easier to come under my calorie goal.
As long as you are getting adequate protein and doing strength training muscle lose will be limited no matter when you eat.0 -
I've been doing IF for the past couple of weeks and I find it a lot easier to keep within my calorie range while doing it. Often times, to eat a meal that was satisfying when I was eating three regular meals a day meant I'd be over by 200-500 calories a day usually which wasn't ideal obviously, and really the only reason was my lack of planning to be honest. But using IF, I get two solid meals and am really full when I'm done eating, something I hadn't really had in a long time because I'd just graze all day.
It definitely made me feel more in tune with my body's rhythms, which I think a lot of people lose that feeling of 'I'm really hungry and should eat something', and instead we get into the 'I might be hungry, but not really, but I'm going to eat because it's dinner time'.1 -
Got to make sure you get enough protein and all essential amino acids...remember protein are basic buildings blocks of your cells. Also make sure you aren’t ignoring your need for vitamins and minerals...you can harm yourself and your eyesight as well if you aren’t giving your body what it needs IF is great if you know what you are doing and the meals you do eat are loaded with proteins, vitamins and minerals.0
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kommodevaran wrote: »When you lose weight, you lose muscle and fat. If you starve yourself, you'll lose a lager proportion of muscles. Intermittent fasting is following one of several "protocols" - 16:8, 18:6, 5:2 etc. You can do intermittent fasting eating 3 meals a day. I would suggest you find a way of eating that is sustainable for you.
The research says the opposite. During fasting your body has physiological processes that maintain muscle. This is an evolutionary adaption that you do not get during food reduction diets (calorie restricted eating) where you eat in a large time window and your insulin levels are high over 24 hrs.
Evolution isn't perfect but we have managed to survive if there is a little food available every day the body isn't heavily penalised if a little muscle is burnt for fuel as is likely more food might appear in the future. If food is not available every day then processes kick in to preserve muscle. You start to burn stored Glycogen & Ketones as fuel. Ketones are the breakdown of your body fat. Fasting changes your hormone profile. Evolution has favoured these processes because fasted individuals could hunt for food and were more likely to pass on their genes if they caught/foraged some sustenance & survived scarcity. The body can afford to be wasteful in the short term by burning up lots of body fat to provide a quick efficient fuel source for the brain & muscles if the pay out is more likely to be a good meal ensuring survival.
In laboratory settings individuals, mostly men historically, have been tested for a good long time. Science is getting more and more advanced. There a now twin studies, elite athlete research, etc. The most exciting of these developments is Autophagy. A type of process that kicks in during longer fasts and that has been studied in mice in low protein intake diets. It is where cells in the body scavenge damaged proteins for fuel & building blocks to make more body tissue. It has been shown to eliminate or reduce the sagging spare skin that is left after significant weightloss.
CHECK YOU HEALTH WITH YOU DR BEFORE YOU START FASTING. & start slowly.2 -
^^ you have picked a 6 year old thread to say that??
But, no, people wanting to maintain muscle mass do not need to do IF nor does IF have any magical properties.
Do it if it suits you, don't if it doesnt.
Thats all.
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Yeppers, a 6 year old thread to post pseudo-science and total inaccuracies... oh well2
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I did IF for awhile, then when I looked, I realized I was eating a lot of calories in a short time. Other changes I made were drinking black coffee, unsweetened iced tea and water. I went back to three meals a day and kept up with some of the better habits. It has not affected my weight.0
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neanderthin wrote: »
The comment was about how the body uses energy and autophagy... not about the survival mechanisms. For instance, the body burns glycogen and breaks down body fat for energy all of the time, not just when fasting. Also, autophogy is not a process that is caused by fasting - it happens 24/7, 365 days a year.
Also, autophogy is NOT about scavenging damaged proteins for energy - it the clean-up process for damaged, dying and unneeded cells.0 -
neanderthin wrote: »
The comment was about how the body uses energy and autophagy... not about the survival mechanisms. For instance, the body burns glycogen and breaks down body fat for energy all of the time, not just when fasting. Also, autophogy is not a process that is caused by fasting - it happens 24/7, 365 days a year.
Also, autophogy is NOT about scavenging damaged proteins for energy - it the clean-up process for damaged, dying and unneeded cells.
Ok, and there's much more to that, but maybe just explain the "pseudo-science and total inaccuracies" which was the reason I quoted you. Just to be clear I don't agree absolute with everything said and don't discount everything your saying, i'm just curious as to why you said it which I find generally a conscience bias towards something, which I find myself doing as well.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21127245/
The resulting breakdown products are inputs to cellular metabolism, through which they are used to generate energy and to build new proteins and membranes. Autophagy preserves the health of cells and tissues by replacing outdated and damaged cellular components with fresh ones. In starvation, it provides an internal source of nutrients for energy generation and, thus, survival.
https://ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3099265/
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It's nice to see that someone else uses scholar.google ( insert thumbs up emoji) @neanderthin. I love that resource. Tons of scientific clinical research.0
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Just to add: I reread your post and agree with you on a few points. 1) that autophagy is not a processed caused by fasting and your right autophagy happens all the time. The question could be framed by asking , does autophagy increase during calorie restriction and fasting and if it does, for what purpose. Yes autophagy increases on a fasting timeline.
2) Another point you made was glycogen and adipose is broken down for energy on a continual basis, which I agree with and the fat that is used are ketones and specifically beta hydroxybutyrate which increases HGH (human growth hormone) and when fasting, more ketones are used for fuel. HGH has a "protective effect" for muscle protein
synthesis and breakdown by increasing IGF-1 which triggers the growth and repair of bones and muscle. Cheers1 -
neanderthin wrote: »Just to add: I reread your post and agree with you on a few points. 1) that autophagy is not a processed caused by fasting and your right autophagy happens all the time. The question could be framed by asking , does autophagy increase during calorie restriction and fasting and if it does, for what purpose. Yes autophagy increases on a fasting timeline.
2) Another point you made was glycogen and adipose is broken down for energy on a continual basis, which I agree with and the fat that is used are ketones and specifically beta hydroxybutyrate which increases HGH (human growth hormone) and when fasting, more ketones are used for fuel. HGH has a "protective effect" for muscle protein
synthesis and breakdown by increasing IGF-1 which triggers the growth and repair of bones and muscle. Cheers
Agreed... what sets me off is the charlatans (not the PP, but the people that she is getting her info from) that want to ascribe all of these magical mystical properties to IF or fasting or any other thing when those same properties are actually happening as a normal result of the body functioning on a daily/weekly/whatever basis.0 -
neanderthin wrote: »Just to add: I reread your post and agree with you on a few points. 1) that autophagy is not a processed caused by fasting and your right autophagy happens all the time. The question could be framed by asking , does autophagy increase during calorie restriction and fasting and if it does, for what purpose. Yes autophagy increases on a fasting timeline.
2) Another point you made was glycogen and adipose is broken down for energy on a continual basis, which I agree with and the fat that is used are ketones and specifically beta hydroxybutyrate which increases HGH (human growth hormone) and when fasting, more ketones are used for fuel. HGH has a "protective effect" for muscle protein
synthesis and breakdown by increasing IGF-1 which triggers the growth and repair of bones and muscle. Cheers
Agreed... what sets me off is the charlatans (not the PP, but the people that she is getting her info from) that want to ascribe all of these magical mystical properties to IF or fasting or any other thing when those same properties are actually happening as a normal result of the body functioning on a daily/weekly/whatever basis.
I don't disagree with that assertion at all, I see it constantly. That's why it's important or at least I believe that because we can find a study to disagree with just about every argument and there's lots of examples of that happening and why it's more helpful and essential, I think, to look at the totality of evidence and basically hypothesis from there because there's no doubt that new evidence is in the pipeline that will then influence that conversation and every conversation about nutrition going forward. Science is just looking for truth and unfortunately there's a lot of agents (charlatans) that have a vested interest that the literature unfolds in a certain direction and is funded in ways that support that. cheers0 -
This thread is old, but IF is hot, once again.
When we venture onto a new way of eating, we will be served up many opinions. We will squabble over ideas. No one has all of the answers. No one possesses the One Perfect Truth, and everyone else is dead wrong. Two people can have different experiences. One person's experience will not seamlessly agree with another in order to be valid.
IF and TRE are two different things, but most people call it IF. Dropping it like it's hot may be exciting, until it's not. If you can't maintain a rapid weight loss, without any idea how to merge IF into the Maintenance Phase, what did you really learn.
If you must continue IF'ing and restricting food groups for the rest of your life, did it change anything for you then?
Extremes beget extremes. Overeating followed by any kind of rigid restriction will only last so long. I do know a thing or two about IF and TRE. If you have T2 diabetes and you choose to fall off the dieting rollercoaster, there will be ghrelin blowback. It happens.
People start eating it all back before they know what hits them. It almost happens by remote control. Then it's more IF'ing or some other rigid plan that only lasts for a season. Good food fixes everything. Until you learn to be comfortable inside of your own skin and personality, you will always be swimming upstream with diets and rigid plans.
You have to make peace with yourself. You have to give yourself permission to eat the foods that you've always eaten. You will return to them, no matter how rigid you become or determined. Weakness will come knocking on your front door. You will open it. Your old former habits may decide to move in and stay awhile. Mill around and shoot the breeze with you.
Before you know it, you're right back where you started. How in the hell did all of that happen? Why didn't your mind bother to stop that slide. Not one single time did your brain kick in and say, we've got to get a grip on this today before rebound weight gain with friends moves in and stays and stays and stays. Maybe, forever.
No one has all of the answers. If there's one take away from MFP, it's this. Moderate your portions. Eat everything
you like and don't let anyone tell you that you can't. You can. It might take you a couple of years to find your way back home.
Remember your youth and childhood. Every waking moment was not consumed with food thoughts. You had a life that you loved with all of your being. Your body followed you, accommodated you. You did all of the things you really wanted to do.
Guess what. Your body wants you back. It wants to feel alive and have fun. You have to make peace with who you really are at your inner core. Find your way back home, again. Pick yourself back UP. Throw all of these rigid plans out with the bathwater. I believe dieting is the cause of disordered eating.
That very first diet was our biggest mistake. We didn't need it. We just needed a guiding hand and some encouragement to find our way back home, again.
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