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The body positivity movement promotes obesity
Replies
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Who are the people (demographic) who promote the body positivity movement? I found this interesting.
https://ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9589104/
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neanderthin wrote: »Who are the people (demographic) who promote the body positivity movement? I found this interesting.
https://ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9589104/
I found it interesting that anything like the above was ever published, much less funded:This project was supported in part by funding from the Social Sciences and Humanities Research Council (#435-2021-0425).
The authors could have just spent a few minutes reading this thread and come to the same conclusions.
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neanderthin wrote: »Who are the people (demographic) who promote the body positivity movement? I found this interesting.
https://ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9589104/
I found it interesting that anything like the above was ever published, much less funded:This project was supported in part by funding from the Social Sciences and Humanities Research Council (#435-2021-0425).
The authors could have just spent a few minutes reading this thread and come to the same conclusions.
🤣agreed0 -
neanderthin wrote: »Who are the people (demographic) who promote the body positivity movement? I found this interesting.
https://ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9589104/
Because now Instagram posts accurately represent attitudes/demographics in the world at large? Sure. 🤣🤣🤣2 -
neanderthin wrote: »Who are the people (demographic) who promote the body positivity movement? I found this interesting.
https://ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9589104/
I found it interesting that anything like the above was ever published, much less funded:This project was supported in part by funding from the Social Sciences and Humanities Research Council (#435-2021-0425).
The authors could have just spent a few minutes reading this thread and come to the same conclusions.
What was interesting was who originally coined the phrase, it's links to intersectionality which has roots in ideological thought like Marxism, Taoism and the basic connection to wokeism, radical feminism, etc. No biggy, just though some people would find it interesting. Cheers1 -
Another flavor of degeneration afaict. We will end up like the land whales on electric carts in the movie WALL-E. Nobody should feel positive about being obese and people with obese kids should be charged with child abuse.
I used to smoke and drink. I never thought it was a good idea. I always knew it was bad for me, and for society. I'd never expect people to accept that. I'd never expect people to let children do those things. I never felt good about it either.
I did feel good about stopping, and becoming healthy and a role model for my children. That's what we should be proud of. Positive imporovment. Otherwise it's a participation award.
Can't believe people died in world wars to support what humanity has become. Those guys had it so hard, and got so little respect. We do so little and demand so much respect and praise.11 -
^^ bit hyperbolic.8
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george6417 wrote: »Another flavor of degeneration afaict. We will end up like the land whales on electric carts in the movie WALL-E. Nobody should feel positive about being obese and people with obese kids should be charged with child abuse.
I used to smoke and drink. I never thought it was a good idea. I always knew it was bad for me, and for society. I'd never expect people to accept that. I'd never expect people to let children do those things. I never felt good about it either.
I did feel good about stopping, and becoming healthy and a role model for my children. That's what we should be proud of. Positive imporovment. Otherwise it's a participation award.
Can't believe people died in world wars to support what humanity has become. Those guys had it so hard, and got so little respect. We do so little and demand so much respect and praise.
Drinking isn't just accepted, it's widely encouraged in society, so I don't know if that's the best argument. I quit drinking, and lost a lot of friends when I did... because.... "it's no fun if you don't drink with us". There's a lot of things people do that they probably shouldn't. It's human.3 -
I think there needs to be a middle ground. Like "avoid excess negativity. " I hear about a lot of destructive activities related to body image. I.e. when people won't buy clothes in their size, so have only a couple outfits, or people who won't go swimming, or avoiding seeing old friends or social gatherings because of what they think people will think of their weight. I dont think we need to NORMALIZE fat, just DESTIGMATIZE it. We can acknowledge that overweight isnt healthy or desirable without making fat PEOPLE feel undesirable.13
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I think health, fitness and weight all intertwine in complicated ways. It is very possible to make healthy food choices, be active, be fat and be generally healthy. But fat definitely comes with some health risks at the same time. It is very possible to be slim, be slothful, make poor food choices and be generally unhealthy. But being slim in itself (unless extreme) carries no health risks that I'm aware of.
But basically I endorse body neutrality. We all have bodies. Some do some things better than others. Why such a big deal about it? Some people are smarter than others. Some are more artistic or kinder. Why does physical appearance have to be so all-important?2 -
I think there needs to be a middle ground. Like "avoid excess negativity. " I hear about a lot of destructive activities related to body image. I.e. when people won't buy clothes in their size, so have only a couple outfits, or people who won't go swimming, or avoiding seeing old friends or social gatherings because of what they think people will think of their weight. I dont think we need to NORMALIZE fat, just DESTIGMATIZE it. We can acknowledge that overweight isnt healthy or desirable without making fat PEOPLE feel undesirable.
This perfectly captures how I feel about it.
When I was 30 pounds overweight (not obese), I didn’t feel awful or anything. I was moderately active, ate my veggies, all good at the doctor checkups. I had minor complaints that I chalked up to aging.
But now? After losing just shy of that 30 pounds? I feel SO much better in so many ways, both physically and mentally. I breathe better, walk better (knee and hip joints aren’t aching anymore), I sleep better, and I have more energy. I would wager that almost anyone who is 20 or more pounds above their normal weight range would improve their quality of life if they lose the weight.
I just don’t believe the “I’m in perfect health” and “I feel great” claims of someone carrying a significant amount of extra weight. They might be in OK health and feel OK, but not perfect or great.
Summary: I won’t judge or shame anyone for being overweight. I admire anyone who is confident and well adjusted no matter what they weigh. But I’m not giving them a gold star for health.
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sollyn23l2 wrote: »george6417 wrote: »Another flavor of degeneration afaict. We will end up like the land whales on electric carts in the movie WALL-E. Nobody should feel positive about being obese and people with obese kids should be charged with child abuse.
I used to smoke and drink. I never thought it was a good idea. I always knew it was bad for me, and for society. I'd never expect people to accept that. I'd never expect people to let children do those things. I never felt good about it either.
I did feel good about stopping, and becoming healthy and a role model for my children. That's what we should be proud of. Positive imporovment. Otherwise it's a participation award.
Can't believe people died in world wars to support what humanity has become. Those guys had it so hard, and got so little respect. We do so little and demand so much respect and praise.
Drinking isn't just accepted, it's widely encouraged in society, so I don't know if that's the best argument. I quit drinking, and lost a lot of friends when I did... because.... "it's no fun if you don't drink with us". There's a lot of things people do that they probably shouldn't. It's human.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 35+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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For me the point is that you don’t have to hate yourself to want to improve yourself. I can be positive that in spite of my weight, I am beautiful, smart, caring, funny and downright amazing. I am not waiting until I reach a certain weight to celebrate who I am. And all people deserve to be treated with dignity no matter their size, so I support body positivity and I feel great but I am still working on weighing a little less and being able to lift a little more and walk a little farther liking myself just fine through the entire process.5
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justuw84me wrote: »For me the point is that you don’t have to hate yourself to want to improve yourself. I can be positive that in spite of my weight, I am beautiful, smart, caring, funny and downright amazing. I am not waiting until I reach a certain weight to celebrate who I am. And all people deserve to be treated with dignity no matter their size, so I support body positivity and I feel great but I am still working on weighing a little less and being able to lift a little more and walk a little farther liking myself just fine through the entire process.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 35+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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justuw84me wrote: »For me the point is that you don’t have to hate yourself to want to improve yourself. I can be positive that in spite of my weight, I am beautiful, smart, caring, funny and downright amazing. I am not waiting until I reach a certain weight to celebrate who I am. And all people deserve to be treated with dignity no matter their size, so I support body positivity and I feel great but I am still working on weighing a little less and being able to lift a little more and walk a little farther liking myself just fine through the entire process.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 35+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
"Acceptance" doesn't eliminate health consequences. Overweight people don't need to berate themselves or get stink eye and nasty remarks from others to have "accountability."0 -
In my mind, body positivity movement isn't about just accepting being unhealthy or glorifying obesity. Although it gets simplified to that, particularly when an opponent pushes the point that fat people should hate themselves and be miserable all the time if they "refuse" to lose weight. People HATE to see a fat person enjoying their life.
Independent of the movement, my idea of body positivity is:
knowing that you don't have to have contempt for yourself for being fat. That you're still worthy of self love and love from others.
Knowing that for every body type, there are people out there who can't get enough of it.
That you're still human and having a human experience.
That weight alone is not the only determinant of your overall health.
And that weight gain or lose can happen for many reasons, some of them truly beyond our control.
I think that people who are shamed and taught to hate their bodies won't feel an incentive to improve. Improvement needs to come from a place of self love, wanting better health and a better state of mind.
Personally, it was only after I 1. started ignoring the external criticism from people who didn't matter (ie not my physician), and 2. stopped bad-mouthing my body out loud, that i stopped feeling contempt for it. Which led to a desire to take better care of it. And here we are.2 -
I think what started out as a well-intended movement was hijacked by extremists who are promoting really dangerous attitudes. I'm all for not discriminating against someone because of their size. I'm all for learning to love yourself no matter what you look like. And I'm not going to tell people how to live their lives. But I can't get on board with pretending that you can be super morbidly obese and stay healthy, that there are no risks. That it is wrong or somehow self-loathing to try and lose weight. That doctors are discriminating against you for telling you to lose weight, or even asking you to step on a scale. I'm not gonna pretend that someone who is 500 lbs really eats like a bird but can't lose weight because nature made them that way.
We all wish chocolate cake and potato chips were health food, and that being fat didn't come with so many serious health risks. Yeah it'd be great if the only concern was finding cute clothes to fit you. But we have to face reality and get over it. Promoting delusions to spare people's feelings is only going to cost a lot of people very dearly because they'll believe all the lies until cold hard reality slaps them in the face one day.
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There is, or at least should be, a difference between not discriminating against a person because of their weight and saying, as seems to be the case, that a person can be obese, even morbidly so, and it doesn't affect their health in extremely negative ways. All the evidence shows differently. That is even the case with Sumo wrestlers who also suffer from obesity-related illnesses. Yes, the incidences for them are slightly lower, likely because of the physical training that is part of being a Sumo Wrestler, but they still have increased issues with all the illnesses that other obese people who don't do that training face. Positivity to the point of denying the real danger to health simply because of lifestyle is not positive for them in the longterm.2
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i think people really have a lot of misconceptions on fatness, and an incorrect definition of obesity. obesity is when you're UNHEALTHY due to being severely overweight- but being fat doesn't necessarily make you overweight or unhealthy. many different factors play into body shape aside from food consumption and exercise, such as genetics, height, sex, age, medical conditions, and various other traits. being fat isn't unhealthy for everyone- for some people, it's possible that a lot of fat could indicate health problems. but for a lot of others, being fat is natural and, for a matter of fact, healthy. according to my BMI (29.7), i am almost obese- but my doctors and other medical sources say my weight is perfectly healthy for me.
not to mention, we shouldn't shame people even if they WERE obese. rather, we should encourage them to work towards a healthier weight for them personally. obesity can be a result of things beyond "laziness," and can instead be caused by various mental and physical disabilities. so we SHOULD normalize obesity- not romanticize it, but also not demonize those with it, either.0 -
lemonsnbees wrote: »i think people really have a lot of misconceptions on fatness, and an incorrect definition of obesity. obesity is when you're UNHEALTHY due to being severely overweight- but being fat doesn't necessarily make you overweight or unhealthy. many different factors play into body shape aside from food consumption and exercise, such as genetics, height, sex, age, medical conditions, and various other traits. being fat isn't unhealthy for everyone- for some people, it's possible that a lot of fat could indicate health problems. but for a lot of others, being fat is natural and, for a matter of fact, healthy. according to my BMI (29.7), i am almost obese- but my doctors and other medical sources say my weight is perfectly healthy for me.
not to mention, we shouldn't shame people even if they WERE obese. rather, we should encourage them to work towards a healthier weight for them personally. obesity can be a result of things beyond "laziness," and can instead be caused by various mental and physical disabilities. so we SHOULD normalize obesity- not romanticize it, but also not demonize those with it, either.
I do take your main point, and 100% agree that health and body fat don't march along hand in hand universally, and way more than 100% agree that we shouldn't shame, stereotype, or demonize people who have body fat (or most any other appearance issue).
I have to quibble, though: The standard definitions of "obesity" are in terms of BMI. In the US, the definition is a BMI over 30. It's a body size ratio, though, I agree, not a measure of health.
I understand the limitations of BMI. Even "the establishment" understands those limitations. For example, the US NIH's BMI calculator has a link to a whole page on limitations**, and talks about BMI in terms of increased risks for health conditions, i.e., a statistical correlation in groups, not an individual indicator of health. It's true, though, that many people misunderstand BMI, and some organizations misuse it unfairly.
** https://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/health/educational/lose_wt/risk.htm#limitations
That said, I personally was less healthy when in the obese BMI range, vs. now in the normal BMI range. Despite being very athletically active for over a decade while in that weight range - and pretty fit by multiple objective measures - I had high blood pressure, very high cholesterol/triglycerides, worse arthritis symptoms, and more.
I'm sure some of that is because risks are more likely to come to roost with age, and I was on the threshold of my 60s when I finally lost weight. For me, most of the health concerns have resolved. I still have arthritis (of course, there's not a cure), but I experience much less pain, discomfort, or physical limitations at a lighter weight.
As with so many things, others' experiences will differ.
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