Artificial sweeteners and hunger spikes

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Lullaby2021
Lullaby2021 Posts: 121 Member
in Health and Weight Loss
I recently had to stop artifical sweeteners. I didn't notice anything wrong with them at first. Until a few days in a row. of me drinking zero calorie soda. Like cocacola zero & sprite zero. that contain aspratame and phentonics..Everytime I crack a can. After having a very satisfying meal. Where clearly I am full. I finish the soda, it trigger me to feel hungry or crave sweets more. by sending strong hunger/crave signal after finishing the soda. I be extremly hungry to a point. I have to eat another big satisfying meal only 2 hours later. Same for the little packets particularly Saccharin( another artifical sweetener). I put that in my tea,coffee,shreaded wheat cereal, protien shakes.. almost everything that require sugar.After eating meal with that 0 calorie sweetener. I'm back hungry right after. That stuff also cause Bloating and constipation for me chronically. I've over ate my maintenance calories.by 3,500 in one week. I normally can control my portions well. As to how I've kept off 27lbs for years. Not glad to gain but glad to know. What's been triggering my hunger and extra crave for sweets. I just knew someting was off.. Now I can put a stop to this. Have anyone else experience this with artificial sweeteners?anything different? share your experiences plz, Appreciate it : ).
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Replies

  • neanderthin
    neanderthin Posts: 9,925 Member
    edited October 2023
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    Pretty common actually. Good that you figured it out. I do partake in diet Pepsi occasionally but I figured out that I couldn't consume it regularly. It doesn't actually spike insulin but it does effect the dopamine pathway.
  • kshama2001
    kshama2001 Posts: 27,910 Member
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    I've seen lots of studies showing an association with consumption of artificial sweeteners and increased appetite. Interestingly, this effect seems to be less prevalent in the MFP population.

    I'm in the "no way to test as they taste terrible to me" category.
  • rileysowner
    rileysowner Posts: 8,126 Member
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    I find the opposite for me. If I am feeling hungry and have a diet soda it satisfies me so I am no longer hungry. That is the weird thing with bodies, what happens for one person in response to some food or drink doesn't necessarily happen for others. The response your body has is not unknown, but it is not universal. Good thing you caught it.
  • gojira54godzilla
    gojira54godzilla Posts: 3 Member
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    Zero calorie pop doesn’t affect me. I have an apple and lone everyday for lunch. I have a small lunch because my breakfast and dinner are huge…

    However, if I drink diet pop or have artificial sugar in Kool aid then I get snacks and hungry..
  • yirara
    yirara Posts: 9,410 Member
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    Doesn't affect me. But sometimes, when my dinner is a big higher in protein or fat my bloodpressure crashes down a while after dinner and I feel like I'm hungry. At least until I'm standing up and feel dizzy.
  • Remoth
    Remoth Posts: 117 Member
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    What do you consider a big satisfying meal? I know some people will say that, but in reality, it was just a large plate of noodles or something. It's a very subjective qualification. Being hungry again in 2 hours is also common from meals that aren't very filling. I make sure half of my meals are veggies or fruit with lots of protein as well and I stay full for a long time. If you make over half your calories come from low calorie-dense foods, you'll be eating so much volume of food, it should help with feeling satisfied.
  • PAV8888
    PAV8888 Posts: 13,658 Member
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    I have experienced both though the food seeking behavior generation is more recent.

    I switched from regular pop (very much so influenced by fear, uncertainty and doubt from media reports) to pop zero when I started with my "got to do something or I'll be retired before I retire" attempt just a bit over 9 years ago.

    It has unquestionably helped me enjoy life and control calories.

    I tend to drink coke zero but due to recent supply shortages I ended up trying out dr pepper zero.

    It was like a dessert wine to my taste buds by comparison. Wow! So much sweeter. Vanilla. A zero calorie feast for the senses! And so went the first 12 pack.

    Not so fast sparky.

    Because it is so sweet and it lights up my light bulbs... I started looking for a dessert! Sure the caffeine throws in the expected pick me up. But the conditioned sugar rush doesn't materialize since there is none in the drink! Unless it is combined with an apple for example. Or a chocolate. Or twizzler! So, of course, my choice was more often an orange cream twizzler than an apple -- duh!

    So the remaining two 12 packs got consumed earlier during meals or 50-50 combined with regular coke zero, and the dessert seeking behavior went away! 🤷‍♂️
  • _John_
    _John_ Posts: 8,642 Member
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    🤷‍♂️I have almost the opposite response. I can drink a Coke Zero when I’m feeling a little hungry and it can tide me over to my next meal.
  • kshama2001
    kshama2001 Posts: 27,910 Member
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    PAV8888 wrote: »
    I have experienced both though the food seeking behavior generation is more recent.

    I switched from regular pop (very much so influenced by fear, uncertainty and doubt from media reports) to pop zero when I started with my "got to do something or I'll be retired before I retire" attempt just a bit over 9 years ago.

    It has unquestionably helped me enjoy life and control calories.

    I tend to drink coke zero but due to recent supply shortages I ended up trying out dr pepper zero.

    It was like a dessert wine to my taste buds by comparison. Wow! So much sweeter. Vanilla. A zero calorie feast for the senses! And so went the first 12 pack.

    Not so fast sparky.

    Because it is so sweet and it lights up my light bulbs... I started looking for a dessert! Sure the caffeine throws in the expected pick me up. But the conditioned sugar rush doesn't materialize since there is none in the drink! Unless it is combined with an apple for example. Or a chocolate. Or twizzler! So, of course, my choice was more often an orange cream twizzler than an apple -- duh!

    So the remaining two 12 packs got consumed earlier during meals or 50-50 combined with regular coke zero, and the dessert seeking behavior went away! 🤷‍♂️

    Yes, this is the exact mechanism theorized about in fruit fly and mice studies I read about yesterday:

    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/07/160712130107.htm

    ..."Through systematic investigation of this effect, we found that inside the brain's reward centres, sweet sensation is integrated with energy content. When sweetness versus energy is out of balance for a period of time, the brain recalibrates and increases total calories consumed."

    In the study, fruit flies that were exposed to a diet laced with artificial sweetener for prolonged periods (more than five days) were found to consume 30 percent more calories when they were then given naturally sweetened food.

    "When we investigated why animals were eating more even though they had enough calories, we found that chronic consumption of this artificial sweetener actually increases the sweet intensity of real nutritive sugar, and this then increases the animal's overall motivation to eat more food," said Associate Professor Neely.

    "...Using this response to artificially sweetened diets, we were able to functionally map a new neuronal network that balances food's palatability with energy content.

    "...To discover whether artificial sweeteners also increased food intake in mammals, Professor Herbert Herzog's lab from Garvan then replicated the study using mice. Again the mice that consumed a sucralose-sweetened diet for seven days displayed a significant increase in food consumption, and the neuronal pathway involved was the same as in the fruit flies.

    "These findings further reinforce the idea that 'sugar-free' varieties of processed food and drink may not be as inert as we anticipated. Artificial sweeteners can actually change how animals perceive the sweetness of their food, with a discrepancy between sweetness and energy levels prompting an increase in caloric consumption," Professor Herzog said."
  • PAV8888
    PAV8888 Posts: 13,658 Member
    edited October 2023
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    Yes. But you neglect the fact that I often drink the coke zero by itself and it acts as a placeholder / tide me up / filler. Or that the effect goes away when combined with food that lights up the little lights sufficiently.

    The issue in my case, I'm fairly confident, is that it was way sweeter in taste than expected. And than what i was used to. So it really triggered my desire for extra dessert. Especially since it coincided with be trying to apply a small deficit.

    But notice the relativeness.

    Currently I'm eating too much sodium and regularly consume instant soup products. But I know from experience that if I were to limit sodium for a month these instant soups would feel too salty to consume and uncomfortable as opposed to comforting to eat
  • paperpudding
    paperpudding Posts: 8,999 Member
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    and regardless of what studies on mice show - real life shows us this effect on humans is by no means universal or even common.

    I dont dispute it happens to some people - but they are a minority.
  • kiteflyer105
    kiteflyer105 Posts: 128 Member
    edited October 2023
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    I just recently gave up all pop, which sucks, but it had to be done. After I drink pop, I always found myself craving more sugar ladened things. Even after I had just eaten!

    I will be giving up all sweetners too in 2 months.

    Thank you for starting the thread. I can relate.

    I can tell you I feel better without drinking pop daily.
  • neanderthin
    neanderthin Posts: 9,925 Member
    edited October 2023
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    paperpudding wrote: »
    and regardless of what studies on mice show - real life shows us this effect on humans is by no means universal or even common.

    I dont dispute it happens to some people - but they are a minority.

    I tend to agree with this.

    The mice is question " laced with artificial sweetener for prolonged periods (more than five days)" I guess that would mean 6 days? anyway, fruit flies only live for about 14 days, so basically almost half their lives they were laced with artificial sweeteners, then they ate 30% more calories, sure ok.

    My personal situation is coming from a low carb diet where sugar is almost non existent. Artificial sugars can disrupt hormonal balance. "Sucralose Promotes Hunger through a Pathway Involving Octopamine and Dopamine"and "Activation of Neuronal AMPK"

    https://cell.com/cell-metabolism/fulltext/S1550-4131(16)30296-0

    As long as I stay away from sugar and a sweet taste apparently I don't have a problem and my low carb/ketogenic diet becomes very satiating which is for the most part hormonal driven from ghrelin in the gut and dopamine in the brain, the hunger signaling hormones.

    If I eat anything sweet with calories especially dessert type foods it can drive my hunger very quickly out of control and increases insulin in the blood which is the control lever for these hormones, it's basically a switch, and yes they work that fast and because diet pepsi is the only thing in my diet that is sweet I have to be careful I don't drink too much and because it doesn't have any calories my insulin isn't effected, so not the same urge to consume more as compared to a regular pepsi. Doing that a few times over a short period of time is the problem and I'm pushing my luck that that dopamine hit starts to effect my hunger signaling and starts to resemble a donut.

    If someone isn't on a low carb diet, is obese, diabetic or insulin resistant and eats whatever, a standard north American diet or a diet higher in carbs that include sugars and dessert foods, do artificial sweeteners drive hunger? well, most studies say no and that AS can be a good strategy for weight loss, especially in people that normally consume copious amounts of pop. So there is no definitive answer as far as I can tell, but considering most of the population isn't on a low carb diet then AS should be considered a good strategy if weight loss is in the cards. Just my opinion.
  • PeachHibiscus
    PeachHibiscus Posts: 163 Member
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    I've always preferred to eat my calories rather than drink them so I've been drinking zero sugar drinks for decades, spanning my highest weights and my lowest. I've never noticed a change in my appetite based on artificial sweeteners and I can see now that they have no effect on my blood sugar.

    It's interesting how everyone is different. I have had actual sugar affect my appetite but in a different way. There have been times when I've eaten part of a dessert and it's too sweet and that makes me feel sick and want to stop eating. I had a grandmother who was similar. She didn't eat a lot of sweets but there was a certain cookie she sometimes liked to have with her coffee because "it's not sweet."
  • Giniac
    Giniac Posts: 36 Member
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    Yeah, from experience people are always either in one camp of the other with the effect a diet drink has on appetite :smile:

    It's pretty similar for breakfast smoothies too. Some find them filling, others don't feel it touch the sides. I'm the latter for smoothies, I try not to drink my calories, because it's just not as satisfying as eating them
  • MacLowCarbing
    MacLowCarbing Posts: 350 Member
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    Yeah; being a food addict, artificial sweeteners just kept that switch on in my mind that triggered cravings and stuff. I cut down on artificial sweeteners to something I just have on rare occasion, like a holiday or birthday. I had been hesitant to do so for years and years, to my detriment.

    One of my greatest simple pleasures in life is my daily coffee and I never thought I could drink coffee without at least 1 packet of sweetener or a splash of sugar-free syrups w/artificial sweeteners. But, I have gotten used to it now by putting in 2 tbsp heavy cream, or whipping in some butter or coconut oil or eggs.

    It takes a few weeks to get used to it but you do, after a while you can't take too much sweetness at once. I tried to have some diet soda last month and it made me feel sick, it was like sipping syrup to me and I couldn't drink it. But one or twice a month I might enjoy something like jello, or ice pops, or even some kind of chocolate treat with artificial sugar and now a little goes a very, very long way when you get it out of your daily plan.
  • paperpudding
    paperpudding Posts: 8,999 Member
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    One of my greatest simple pleasures in life is my daily coffee and I never thought I could drink coffee without at least 1 packet of sweetener or a splash of sugar-free syrups w/artificial sweeteners. But, I have gotten used to it now by putting in 2 tbsp heavy cream, or whipping in some butter or coconut oil or eggs.


    If you are going to put those things into your coffee instead of artificial sweeteners you might as well just use sugar.
  • neanderthin
    neanderthin Posts: 9,925 Member
    edited October 2023
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    paperpudding wrote: »
    One of my greatest simple pleasures in life is my daily coffee and I never thought I could drink coffee without at least 1 packet of sweetener or a splash of sugar-free syrups w/artificial sweeteners. But, I have gotten used to it now by putting in 2 tbsp heavy cream, or whipping in some butter or coconut oil or eggs.


    If you are going to put those things into your coffee instead of artificial sweeteners you might as well just use sugar.

    He explained why and why do you care.
  • Fitforevermore
    Fitforevermore Posts: 399 Member
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    rileysowner wrote: »
    I find the opposite for me. If I am feeling hungry and have a diet soda it satisfies me so I am no longer hungry. That is the weird thing with bodies, what happens for one person in response to some food or drink doesn't necessarily happen for others. The response your body has is not unknown, but it is not universal. Good thing you caught it.

    I find the same, I now diet coke is not healthy for me, but when losing it helps me to control calories. I prefer kombucha which is healthy but too expensive.

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