Low Carb verses Low Calorie? What's your opinion?

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  • mncardiojunkie
    mncardiojunkie Posts: 307 Member
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    Did you keep track of your calories at all when you first did low-carb? It seems that you had great success with it before. I have heard of the "Golden Shot" story with Atkins/low-carb, but I don't necessarily believe it. I'm sure there are thousands of people who re-induce/start over again after high-carb benders over the holidays/vacation, etc. It might make it harder to get going again, but that's really just true with any "diet", low cal or low carb. The point is really just to avoid treating any plan like a diet, and instead commit to a lifestyle change. I think that you'll find that it's easier to keep your calories in check than you think. It really is hard to overeat on meat, fish, and veggies. They're all pretty filling foods, and since you've been counting calories already, you have learned portion control (4 oz meat, 1 cup veggies, etc). As it's been said many times, it's "don't count calories" not "calories don't count." And of course, eating to satisfaction, not stuffed. If you're really concerned about the calories, you could forgo butter, cheese, cream and things like that, instead choosing lean proteins like chicken breast, sirloin, and fish.

    As for low calorie plans, I think that most people following that are not very likely to be getting 90% of their calories from carbs either, because it just isn't satisfying and it's easier to overeat carbs (IMO). I'm by no means criminalizing carbs, but I bet that many people who cut calories do indeed end up cutting their carbs below what they had been eating.

    No, I never counted calories when I went low carb in 1998, in 2005. Both time I lost over 60 pounds within less than 6 months each time. Actually with much less effort then calorie counting. In addition my cholesterol levels good and bad are excellent.

    I only gain it back when I was expecting my son in 2004. I gained 17-22 pounds in the last 6 months due to a great deal of stress and a all-bets-are-off attitude. I've lost over 130 pounds on low carb. I have basically kept it off except for the pregnancy, this time it only got slightly out of hand. I caught it before it got too bad.

    Thanks for the reminder! I think you gave me the answers that I needed rather the "get it together information" that's all I needed! Many thanks.
  • mgullette
    mgullette Posts: 401 Member
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    Good luck to you! Though sounds like you have all you need now to just do it, no luck needed.

    Ahh, the misconceptions about low-carb diet plans. People who have thoroughly researched the plans find that of course you eat carbs, in the form of many vegetables, nuts, fruits, legumes, etc. Obviously, this is not unhealthy at all. The misconceptions that are perpetuated about low-carb really have very little merit, and it's sad that people just regurgitate what they hear and read instead of doing some research themselves. Most people who do low-carb, if they're doing it right, find that they eat FAR MORE vegetables than they did previously. And there's nothing unhealthy about that.
  • mncardiojunkie
    mncardiojunkie Posts: 307 Member
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    I tried low carb a few years back - lost 35 pounds quick but in the fourth month I really felt bad....I've been on low cal now since 1st of Sep and I feel great and I've lost more than with low carb. I think our bodies need more variety of nutrition than low carb can offer - or at least how I did it.

    Your net calories should never be below that 1200 mark. If you are only netting 1000 per day - that could be the problem.

    Yah know, I know you're right about that. I am super frightened of eating more calories, even though I probably burn around 600-1000 calories at the gym. In fact, when as I count the calories and figure it out I should have lost around 4 pounds in the last 2 weeks, but only lost 1.5 pounds. It was mathematically impossible. How would you handle the calorie/calorie burning issue if you were me?

    Thanks for your reply. I appreciate your time.
    Marie

    any changes you make can affect your weight - meaning adding calories after being on low carb - could you gain - yes but if you got your net to 1200 a day, I am pretty sure you'll be at a deficit still may not be 5 pounds a week but a pound a week in the right direction and eating healthy - what's wrong with that??

    When I increased my calories, I started losing again - didn't gain but I've heard both ways. Let your body adjust don't give up.

    THANK YOU! I know that you're right!
  • Dedicated
    Dedicated Posts: 104 Member
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    I have struggled with my weight all of my life and have yo-yoed from 200 to 100 to 190 to 165 to 209 to 145. Now I am stuck again at 161 after 6 weeks and losing about 14 pounds. I definitely appreciate those who are in the midst of a battle of 50 pounds or more. I have been there many many times. :cry:

    I work out 4-6days a week. I am a weight lifter so 149 pounds I'm in a size 4. Right now I am in a size 8. So the scales really aren't accurate for me as my measured body weight at the gym is around 22%.


    On no, who ever caught that did not have a good eye, they weren't paying attention.

    The only foods that I cut out are processed flour, sugar, corn, white rice and potatoes. I did not know that they constitute a food group. I eat loads of good carbs; veggies, fruits, nuts and some whole grains and some beans (but I don't fancy the latter two). I really don't understand what healthy or important food group that I am cutting out.

    I apologize. I did not get from your original post that you were only cutting out processed flour, sugar, corn, white rice and potatoes. When I read that you have been strictly low carb for years, I made a wrong assumption that you were attempting to cut out all carbs (as many low carb dieters do).

    I'm sorry I wasn't any help, but I hope that you were able to find some valuable information on going low-carb and low-calorie; good luck!
  • Dedicated
    Dedicated Posts: 104 Member
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    Good luck to you! Though sounds like you have all you need now to just do it, no luck needed.

    Ahh, the misconceptions about low-carb diet plans. People who have thoroughly researched the plans find that of course you eat carbs, in the form of many vegetables, nuts, fruits, legumes, etc. Obviously, this is not unhealthy at all. The misconceptions that are perpetuated about low-carb really have very little merit, and it's sad that people just regurgitate what they hear and read instead of doing some research themselves. Most people who do low-carb, if they're doing it right, find that they eat FAR MORE vegetables than they did previously. And there's nothing unhealthy about that.

    Please don't assume that myself or others have not done any research of our own. The FDA and any doctor will tell you that the healthiest way to lose weight is by exercising and maintaining a low-calorie, balanced diet.

    This is what the FDA has to say about high-protein diets:

    "A high-protein diet is one fad diet that has remained popular over the years. "High-protein items may also be high in fat," says Robert Eckel, M.D., professor of medicine at the University of Colorado Health Sciences Center in Denver. High-fat diets can raise blood cholesterol levels, which increases a person's risk for heart disease and certain cancers.

    High-protein diets force the kidneys to try to get rid of the excess waste products of protein and fat, called ketones. A buildup of ketones in the blood (called ketosis) can cause the body to produce high levels of uric acid, which is a risk factor for gout (a painful swelling of the joints) and kidney stones. Ketosis can be especially risky for people with diabetes because it can speed the progression of diabetic renal disease, says Eckel.

    "It's important for the public to understand that no scientific evidence supports the claim that high-protein diets enable people to maintain their initial weight loss," says Eckel. "In general, quick weight-loss diets don't work for most people (http://www.fda.gov/fdac/features/2002/102_fat.html)."

    If a high-protein diet works for you, that's great, but please don't assume that others do not know what they are talking about if they feel that it's not the best route.
  • stillkristi
    stillkristi Posts: 1,135 Member
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    I was asking if I do both, how do I handle it? I can't seem to get the protein in on low calorie.

    I understand that the South Beach Diet has very good results. I haven't the time to stop and eat that many times a day. I am lucky to get food in twice a day, with a protein shake from breakfast.

    So, is your primary concern the possible toxicity of ketosis? In order to avoid dangerous levels of ketosis, DRINK YOUR WATER. You can also buy ketostix at most pharmacies to test you level of ketosis.

    And, Dedicated, I generally agree with you regarding the FDA, however, its important to look at the evolution of diets in America. The Atkins Diet was the rage in the 1970s, then the medical community and the FDA released studies suggesting that a low calorie, "fat-free" diet was more desirable. So, for the next 25 years, the Standard American Diet headed in the low-fat, fat-free direction. The result was a plethora of low fat food options in stores, and an odd variety of low fat diets. During that same time, the US rates of obesity, type II diabetes, heart disease, stroke, etc soared. The medical community was stumped. Most docs determined that their overweight patients were obviously cheating. Studies done in Australia and the UK seemed to debunk this notion. Dr. Mark Borkman of Sidney did a study on young (average age of 37) males and females where they followed either a high carb (low fat) diet and a high fat diet for three weeks, then the groups switched and followed the other diet for the next three weeks. They found that the high carb diets did effectively lower cholestrol levels, however, when one looked at HDL and LDL levels, which is the only way to look at cholestrol, they found "that practically achievable high charbohydrate diets have net effects on lipoprotein metabolism that may be unfavorable." So, various scientists differ on the effects of various levels of carbohydrate levels. In fact, cholestrol related deaths, when graphed look sort of like an inverted dome, with extremely low levels of cholestrol resulting in about the same numbers of deaths as extremely high levels. The optimal range is from 180 to 200 according to Drs. Michael and Mary Dan Eades.

    Having said all that, it is also interesting to note that in April of 2005, with very little fanfare, the USDA modified the Food Guide Pyramid. Today, we know we NEED lean protein, and we NEED healthy fats, such as those found is nuts, avacados, salmon, etc.

    So, the target seems to be moving. The bottom line is low carb eating does not generally mean eating only steak and bacon. :laugh:
  • kimmundt
    kimmundt Posts: 19
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    On no, who ever caught that did not have a good eye, they weren't paying attention.

    The only foods that I cut out are processed flour, sugar, corn, white rice and potatoes. I did not know that they constitute a food group. I eat loads of good carbs; veggies, fruits, nuts and some whole grains and some beans (but I don't fancy the latter two). I really don't understand what healthy or important food group that I am cutting out.

    But unfortunately due to my wordiness, what I was asking, got lost in translations. For every study that you can give me about the perils of low carb, I can give you a study about low calorie dieters failing 90% of the time-from reputable sources.

    I have no desire for a Snickers bar, I crave no bread, not even a dark chocolate croissant. I am just at a plateau.

    I was asking if I do both, how do I handle it? I can't seem to get the protein in on low calorie.

    I understand that the South Beach Diet has very good results. I haven't the time to stop and eat that many times a day. I am lucky to get food in twice a day, with a protein shake from breakfast.

    Thanks for clearly expressing your thoughts.

    Kind regards
    Marie


    Marie, maybe your schedule might be what is stalling you. Your blood sugar levels might be out of wack during the day because you cant eat small meals. Also, you said you can barely get 2 meals in a day, with a protein shake...... hmmmmmm.

    I could be all washed up but I believe that may be part of your plateau problem. I dont feel that you are eatiing often enough. When you do have time to eat you seem to be cramming your calories into the two meals. Is there any way you can snack? Like peanut butter and celery? String cheese? Nuts? a wrap? at all during the day? Maybe trying to add in 1 more meal into your day might keep your metabolism and blood sugars steady .

    I wish you all the best. It sounds like you work very hard on your body and I hope you see results for your hard work.
  • Dedicated
    Dedicated Posts: 104 Member
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    [/quote]

    So, the target seems to be moving. The bottom line is low carb eating does not generally mean eating only steak and bacon. :laugh:
    [/quote]

    I'm definitely not arguing that the nutrition guidelines are something that are set in stone and that everyone should abide by them strictly. My point was that just because I don't feel that low-carb diets are the best route for sustained weight loss, does not mean that I am just "regurgitating what I hear" and not doing my research. There are many different theories on weight loss and we are each entitled to our own beliefs - I just choose to follow what research has backed up for years and what I have seen work with others.
  • mncardiojunkie
    mncardiojunkie Posts: 307 Member
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    I have struggled with my weight all of my life and have yo-yoed from 200 to 100 to 190 to 165 to 209 to 145. Now I am stuck again at 161 after 6 weeks and losing about 14 pounds. I definitely appreciate those who are in the midst of a battle of 50 pounds or more. I have been there many many times. :cry:

    I work out 4-6days a week. I am a weight lifter so 149 pounds I'm in a size 4. Right now I am in a size 8. So the scales really aren't accurate for me as my measured body weight at the gym is around 22%.


    On no, who ever caught that did not have a good eye, they weren't paying attention.

    The only foods that I cut out are processed flour, sugar, corn, white rice and potatoes. I did not know that they constitute a food group. I eat loads of good carbs; veggies, fruits, nuts and some whole grains and some beans (but I don't fancy the latter two). I really don't understand what healthy or important food group that I am cutting out.

    I apologize. I did not get from your original post that you were only cutting out processed flour, sugar, corn, white rice and potatoes. When I read that you have been strictly low carb for years, I made a wrong assumption that you were attempting to cut out all carbs (as many low carb dieters do).

    I'm sorry I wasn't any help, but I hope that you were able to find some valuable information on going low-carb and low-calorie; good luck!

    Oh gosh, NO PROBLEM AT ALL!:flowerforyou:

    Now, there Marie BLOWS....a long line of very boring information below.......:yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn:

    You needn't apologize to me. I really do think that it's the assumption that a low-carb diet means cutting out fruit, veggies, none processed whole grains and beans. My favorite foods are in there! I love spinach, tomatoes, rye and black eyed peas. There are foods in those groups that I don't fancy. I didn't cut them out, I wasn't likely to ever add them to my diet anyway. Like bananas....:sick:

    It really does baffle me about the misconception about low carb diets. Atkins allowed foods that I dont eat, like bacon, hamburgers, etc. It was part of options. It wasn't forced.

    I wish that I could re-educate the greater population. But I feel it falls on deaf ears because people are either attached to their processed carbs and have demonize low-carbs or they aren't paying attention to the lifestyle. :ohwell: It's shocking to see such a visceral reaction to me cutting out processed foods. I live in Minnesota. I don't even mention it here; much of our economy is based on General Mills Kellogg, Betty Crocker, Viking (bunt cake forms), Malt O' Meal, Pillsbury, Golden Mill.....

    On Atkins-the older version-on OWL or on-going weight loss, I can eat my asparagus, loads of spinach, my lemons, melons, berries and whole grains and a bit of beans. It suits me well. Process foods are what I believe puts and keeps the pounds on a person, no matter how few calories there are. I think this stuff is toxic. And frankly that's exactly what put the extra 17-22 pounds on me in the last 6 months.

    You guys are great. I just loved your responses to this post...all of them. It was eye opening!

    THANKS A MILLION and God-bless those who could actually get through my ramblings.....
  • mncardiojunkie
    mncardiojunkie Posts: 307 Member
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    [/quote]


    Marie, maybe your schedule might be what is stalling you. Your blood sugar levels might be out of wack during the day because you cant eat small meals. Also, you said you can barely get 2 meals in a day, with a protein shake...... hmmmmmm.

    I could be all washed up but I believe that may be part of your plateau problem. I dont feel that you are eatiing often enough. When you do have time to eat you seem to be cramming your calories into the two meals. Is there any way you can snack? Like peanut butter and celery? String cheese? Nuts? a wrap? at all during the day? Maybe trying to add in 1 more meal into your day might keep your metabolism and blood sugars steady .

    I wish you all the best. It sounds like you work very hard on your body and I hope you see results for your hard work.
    [/quote]

    You are right. I will try really hard to add like celery and peanut butter. That's a good idea. I am a single mom and a small business owner, with an old house that needs constant repairs. I barely have time to tie my shoes. :grumble:

    I drink so much water that I float!

    Thank YOU!:flowerforyou:
  • mgullette
    mgullette Posts: 401 Member
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    Good luck to you! Though sounds like you have all you need now to just do it, no luck needed.

    Ahh, the misconceptions about low-carb diet plans. People who have thoroughly researched the plans find that of course you eat carbs, in the form of many vegetables, nuts, fruits, legumes, etc. Obviously, this is not unhealthy at all. The misconceptions that are perpetuated about low-carb really have very little merit, and it's sad that people just regurgitate what they hear and read instead of doing some research themselves. Most people who do low-carb, if they're doing it right, find that they eat FAR MORE vegetables than they did previously. And there's nothing unhealthy about that.

    Please don't assume that myself or others have not done any research of our own. The FDA and any doctor will tell you that the healthiest way to lose weight is by exercising and maintaining a low-calorie, balanced diet.

    This is what the FDA has to say about high-protein diets:

    "A high-protein diet is one fad diet that has remained popular over the years. "High-protein items may also be high in fat," says Robert Eckel, M.D., professor of medicine at the University of Colorado Health Sciences Center in Denver. High-fat diets can raise blood cholesterol levels, which increases a person's risk for heart disease and certain cancers.

    High-protein diets force the kidneys to try to get rid of the excess waste products of protein and fat, called ketones. A buildup of ketones in the blood (called ketosis) can cause the body to produce high levels of uric acid, which is a risk factor for gout (a painful swelling of the joints) and kidney stones. Ketosis can be especially risky for people with diabetes because it can speed the progression of diabetic renal disease, says Eckel.

    "It's important for the public to understand that no scientific evidence supports the claim that high-protein diets enable people to maintain their initial weight loss," says Eckel. "In general, quick weight-loss diets don't work for most people (http://www.fda.gov/fdac/features/2002/102_fat.html)."

    If a high-protein diet works for you, that's great, but please don't assume that others do not know what they are talking about if they feel that it's not the best route.

    Low-carb does not necessarily equal high protein. Have you seen the study of the Inuit diets? They ate almost no carbs (ketogenic) but still were able to work for long hours strenuously. They saved fatty cuts of meat for themselves and gave the leaner ones to the animals. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, just that the facts are not what you said. Usually the low-carb plans are higher in fat, MODERATE protein, and lower carbs. The high-protein diets are usually for people who train strenuously and who need the protein for muscle repair and recovery.
  • dskline1
    dskline1 Posts: 123
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    Hey folks!! I have recently been placed on a food plan by a nutritionist to help build lean muscle mass....can you please tell me what the general consesus is for "what amount or how many grams per day is considered high protein vs moderate protein intake"? I used to only consume about 45 g per day and am working towards 75-95g per day. Just wondering if this number is considered "high" or "moderate". Any info would be greatly appreciated.

    Thanks,
    ~Sheryl
  • stillkristi
    stillkristi Posts: 1,135 Member
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    Depends on your weight and activity level, and of course, your gender. How much weight training are you doing? google on protein power and check out the science behind the diet, according to Drs. MIchael and Mary Dan Eades. That could lead you to far more information than you want, but its nice to know its there.

    And, Marie, I second the comment about your schedule. Even if all you do is grab a handful of nuts and an apple on your way out the door, trying to get some fuel every two to three hours is the best way to keep the metabolism working.
  • mncardiojunkie
    mncardiojunkie Posts: 307 Member
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    Hey folks!! I have recently been placed on a food plan by a nutritionist to help build lean muscle mass....can you please tell me what the general consesus is for "what amount or how many grams per day is considered high protein vs moderate protein intake"? I used to only consume about 45 g per day and am working towards 75-95g per day. Just wondering if this number is considered "high" or "moderate". Any info would be greatly appreciated.

    Thanks,
    ~Sheryl

    This is for high protein and body toning....Anywhere from .5 grams to 2 grams of protein per pound of bodyweight will be good, but try to stick closer to 1 gram per pound.
  • stillkristi
    stillkristi Posts: 1,135 Member
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    Hey folks!! I have recently been placed on a food plan by a nutritionist to help build lean muscle mass....can you please tell me what the general consesus is for "what amount or how many grams per day is considered high protein vs moderate protein intake"? I used to only consume about 45 g per day and am working towards 75-95g per day. Just wondering if this number is considered "high" or "moderate". Any info would be greatly appreciated.

    Thanks,
    ~Sheryl

    This is for high protein and body toning....Anywhere from .5 grams to 2 grams of protein per pound of bodyweight will be good, but try to stick closer to 1 gram per pound.

    Is it per pound of body weight, or per pound of lean body weight? I always forget. :blushing:
  • mncardiojunkie
    mncardiojunkie Posts: 307 Member
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    uhhhhh......stumped

    How I approached it when I was 220 was I took in 1 gram of protein for what weight I was trying to achieve.

    Right now, and remember, I am a weight lifter, I take in 160 grams of protein a day. Wait, I'm lying...:laugh: I try to take in 160 grams of protein a day.

    MFP has a preset amount of protein to take in and I think it's around 125 grams. I have a hard time achieving that, even. That's probably a pretty good estimate for a woman between the ages of 30-50.