Drawbacks to a Ketogenic Diet?
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sollyn23l2 wrote: »neanderthin wrote: »The 'keto flu' is simply a flushing of extra electrolytes (salt, magnesium, potassium, etc.) with the water - up your salt intake and it should alleviate the issue.
When salt gets flushed with the water, the body also flushes potassium and magnesium specifically to maintain a balance. If you up the salt intake, the other electrolytes won't be flushed as well.
Yeah that is definitely 1 of the symptom of the "keto flu" but the main cause from what I can tell from doing research is in the transitioning the body goes through switching from one fuel source to another, going from glucose to ketones.
If someone has a compromised metabolism and is IR or diabetic they've pretty much been a sugar burner all their lives and the transitioning to a fat burner can really put the body and mind through some pretty serious adjustment periods. The body needs time to get use to this new way of living or manufacturing energy and this transition and seeking an optimal fat adaptation scenario can take weeks and up to a few months easily, it's more complicated than just having ketones in the blood.
It's like if the body was a factory and we switched from making Fords to Mercedes and getting familiar with the new products and the brain and body is seeking their new equilibrium, new parts need to be stocked, we need to change the operating systems within the factory, workers need to be trained and the same is true for burning ketones instead of glucose and during this adaption time people will experience a time where it's uncomfortable, some brain fog etc. and it a good reason why some people need professional help to aid in this transition physically and mentally where there may be medication involved. Basically just a quick response but it's much more nuanced than this.
You use these words... sugar burner, fat burner.... I don't think they mean what you think they mean.
Responses like this make me shake my head. If your want to say something like this, perhaps you should give more detail and consider that terms like "sugar burner" and "fat burner" are short ways to refer to ones metabolism switching from mainly using glucose to mainly using ketones. Or, you could just continue with small statements with no elaboration in response to a multi paragraph post.6 -
No cake, no fries, no ice cream..........................big drawbacks for me.
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@ninerbuff With you on that! After a week of keto, so far I'm feeling it is a great reset, but not a lifestyle I would choose for myself long term. But we'll see how the next month progresses.
@sollyn23l2 I appreciate the mental image of Inigo Montoya debating in a keto forum. A fun pick-me-up
@neanderthin Thank you for taking the time to break down some of the causes! I seem to have been fortunate enough to have cleared the symptoms within a day or two, I know they can often persist for others. To use layman's terms because I was always terrible with the technical terms in nursing school, I can certainly agree that switching from immediate fuels to the stored fuel can be an adjustment. I haven't done too much research into it personally, but I'd hypothesize at least that a transition like that would have side effects. But you seem to be well more versed in this than I, so I'm sure I don't need to tell you that!
Day 7 Review
Calorie total: 1,078/1,730
Carb Count:19g
Water Intake: 95oz
Benefits Noticed:
- Not feeling very hungry
Drawbacks Noticed:
- I’ve had an issue since I was a kid where I just always am hungry. I figure it’s probably a sensory thing related to my ADHD or something. It frequently has led me to forget to eat because I just ignore hunger unless it gets really really bad. Well due to benefit #1 I now have what may be worse- no hunger to ignore at all. I’m hoping that maybe this will turn into a “hungry when actually needing food” situation, but I’ll need to be careful. My BMR is somewhere around 1600 and I’ve not met that even slightly the last couple of days.
- I’m eating a LOT of eggs, and I know that in the past this had an effect on my carpal tunnel. No problems yet, but I really should find some additional breakfast options.
Changes:
- Have a meal prep frenzy day with a bunch of meals available for mix/match rather than a strict meal schedule, so that I can eat what I’m in the mood for rather than what I “have to” eat.
Day 8 Thoughts
I've had a lingering sweet taste in my mouth all day so far. Thought at first it was from the swerve I had in a little cream cheese cookie dough bite I had with breakfast, but it's persisted through 30 oz of water and 4 cups of tea. My initial thought/worry was maybe diabetes, because I know that's a symptom (but that was mostly anxiety talking, this just onset today). We have a family history of women with diabetes. But it does sound like it can also be a side effect of ketosis. If it persists a few days I'll probably call up my PCP just to chat through it, and will report back here. But maybe the taste of swerve just lingers long, it was my first time using it!
If you've had experience with or heard of this, I'd love to hear your thoughts. I'll probably do some more intensive research into it if it continues past today, otherwise I'm not too concerned. It's a weird feeling (taste?) though, I'll tell you that!
Sorry for the novel today, have a good one!2 -
I am also on a low carb diet averaging around 75g of carbs per day.
I feel my best when I'm not consuming simple carbs with no energy peaks and valleys.
If you sustain it long term you will be golden!3 -
Viridian1539 wrote: »Day 8 Thoughts
I've had a lingering sweet taste in my mouth all day so far. Thought at first it was from the swerve I had in a little cream cheese cookie dough bite I had with breakfast, but it's persisted through 30 oz of water and 4 cups of tea. My initial thought/worry was maybe diabetes, because I know that's a symptom (but that was mostly anxiety talking, this just onset today). We have a family history of women with diabetes. But it does sound like it can also be a side effect of ketosis. If it persists a few days I'll probably call up my PCP just to chat through it, and will report back here. But maybe the taste of swerve just lingers long, it was my first time using it!
If you've had experience with or heard of this, I'd love to hear your thoughts. I'll probably do some more intensive research into it if it continues past today, otherwise I'm not too concerned. It's a weird feeling (taste?) though, I'll tell you that!
It's a long shot, but I've had that a few times and in my case it was due to taking some antacid pills. The taste didn't persist beyond the consumption of the next meal though (in my case it was overnight).1 -
@xbowhunter Good to know! I may aim to stay lower carb after the Lenten period, I haven't really decided or thought about it yet. But at this point I know I don't want to be as restrictive about food as the current 20g limit for Keto.
@Lietchi How interesting! I personally don't use antacid pills, and nothing in my medication was out of order yesterday (by which I mean, I forgot to take it, as usual). But it's very possible it was just the effect of something I ate.
Day 8 Review
Calorie total: 1,664/1,730
Carb Count:19g
Water Intake: 86 oz.
Benefits Noticed:
- Nothing new to report
Drawbacks Noticed:
- Sweet taste?
Changes:
- Add electrolytes/salt to meal considerations to counteract increased water input
Day 9 Thoughts
That sweet taste is still lingering slightly, but not nearly as bad as yesterday. Now the bitter taste of my too-brewed Irish breakfast tea is lingering, but the cause of that is my own fault!
Only thing of real note today is that I will be resuming Taekwondo after having been off for two weeks due to busy schedule. It will be interesting to see how my energy levels fair as compared to before - if there's any noticeable change at all.
Otherwise it's business as usual. Woke at 5a, breakfast, chores, Work 9-5, TKD, then this evening will clock in for my other job. Tomorrow will be the same.
Until then, have a good one folks!
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Yes there are risks. High LDL, kidney failure, dehydration, nutrient deficiencies, constipation, lifestyle change usually temporary, no fiber, less enjoyment with food, less healthy foods on the basis of fat content, that eliminates whole foods. ( bacon but no apple) heart conditions, liver problems. Yes these ARE all.risks.
Weight loss in itself will yield better readings initially. It also can be affective in A CLINICAL SETTING, some people do better by the elimination of sugar, refined foods, simple carbs, however thefavr isnotallcarbohydrates are equally a Longshot.
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Yes there are risks. High LDL, kidney failure, dehydration, nutrient deficiencies, constipation, lifestyle change usually temporary, no fiber, less enjoyment with food, less healthy foods on the basis of fat content, that eliminates whole foods. ( bacon but no apple) heart conditions, liver problems. Yes these ARE all.risks.
Weight loss in itself will yield better readings initially. It also can be affective in A CLINICAL SETTING, some people do better by the elimination of sugar, refined foods, simple carbs, however thefavr isnotallcarbohydrates are equally a Longshot.
Most if not all of those are straw men. I could do the same sort of hit piece for veganism.3 -
Not really, she's right. There are potential risks. Just like with any way of eating. And they shouldn't be denied or swept under the rug. To do so is disingenuous. Furthermore a straw man fallacy is refuting an argument different from the one actually under discussion. Which is not at all what she did. She answered the OP's initial question genuinely. You like your way of eating. That's great. Enjoy it. It's fine. But you don't need to pretend there are no risks to it. Thank you for listening to my Ted Talk. Let's move on, shall we?6
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sollyn23l2 wrote: »Not really, she's right. There are potential risks. Just like with any way of eating. And they shouldn't be denied or swept under the rug. To do so is disingenuous. Furthermore a straw man fallacy is refuting an argument different from the one actually under discussion. Which is not at all what she did. She answered the OP's initial question genuinely. You like your way of eating. That's great. Enjoy it. It's fine. But you don't need to pretend there are no risks to it. Thank you for listening to my Ted Talk. Let's move on, shall we?
Thank you. My intent was genuine. And for the record keto can be vegan. I have tried it. I will also say that yes there are risks with veganism. As well as carnivore or any diet that either restricts food or food groups. I work in the wellness field and have for decades. I have met people who got very seriously sick snd health problems with high fat keto diet. Cleaner keto would be a wiser choice if it's done. Same with veganism.
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sollyn23l2 wrote: »Not really, she's right. There are potential risks. Just like with any way of eating. And they shouldn't be denied or swept under the rug. To do so is disingenuous. Furthermore a straw man fallacy is refuting an argument different from the one actually under discussion. Which is not at all what she did. She answered the OP's initial question genuinely. You like your way of eating. That's great. Enjoy it. It's fine. But you don't need to pretend there are no risks to it. Thank you for listening to my Ted Talk. Let's move on, shall we?
Thank you. My intent was genuine. And for the record keto can be vegan. I have tried it. I will also say that yes there are risks with veganism. As well as carnivore or any diet that either restricts food or food groups. I work in the wellness field and have for decades. I have met people who got very seriously sick snd health problems with high fat keto diet. Cleaner keto would be a wiser choice if it's done. Same with veganism.
What is cleaner keto and what macronutrient breakdown would you suggest for a vegan keto diet. Curious minds would like to know.1 -
Let's remember to keep conversation generally pleasant folks - we're here to talk about drawbacks in order to help counteract them/help newbies to the keto world decide if it is right for their bodies or not! Not to put down people who do keto one way or a different way.
As I'm meal planning for next week, I'm definitely looking at ways to do a "clean" keto. I need motivation/better planning to get more protein again, especially with resuming my regular workouts. @VegjoyP I know you remarked you've tried both vegan and clean keto - do you have any good recipe resources you utilized?
Same for everyone here: Any good high protein recipes that are keto-friendly that you can recommend? (Please note I can't eat fish, mushrooms, or tofu due to sensory and flavor issues with those foods)4 -
I have been on my Keto eating routine for a while now. My joint paint was noticeably better on Keto.
Last night I didn't feel like cooking, so I warmed up some pizza. Well today my joints ache and I'm feeling really sluggish and yawning.
This is telling me to not deviate from my regular low carb diet again.5 -
I don’t practice low to no carb diet but my brother pretty much eliminated his Rheumatoid arthritis in his knuckles and fingers and his psoriasis has almost all cleared up since he switched to ketone diet start of January. Before that he had tried no dairy, mostly veg, no sweets all sorts of different diets as he didn’t want to resort to medication unless he absolutely had too. His life has changed. So there you go. Take that as it is0
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So carbs. Pizza has a LOT more than carbs. It's high saturated and fat, dairy, tomato, processes carbs) not complex) and salt. All od these can contribute. If you had said you had a baked sweet potato, old fashioned oatmeal, a hummus powder veggie sandwich on sprouted bread,, or lentils and felt bad then its more likely either carbs or rebound affect because you had not had carbs in a while.xbowhunter wrote: »I have been on my Keto eating routine for a while now. My joint paint was noticeably better on Keto.
Last night I didn't feel like cooking, so I warmed up some pizza. Well today my joints ache and I'm feeling really sluggish and yawning.
This is telling me to not deviate from my regular low carb diet again.
It's not " carbs" broccoli is a carbohydrate.
I'm saying this only as something to think about. Not being mean or pit down or dispute. Hugs.
Btw I have SLE Lupus and arthritis, Sojourn's, Reynauds, osteoperksis... sooo I kindss get the autoimmune thing.
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When I say clean Keto I'm thinking whiole foods like avocado, nuts. Tahini, olives, coconut meat. I'm thinking lots of water based vegetables like celery, baby lettuce, asparagus. If you are not vegan them mackerel, sardines or wild salmon. I do not believe in hurting amass but as someone in health field I accept other people where they are and just w as not to see people make best informed decisions. So if a meat water, bison. Deer or elk.
For me, vegan Keto was all plant fats. Lots of cruciferous veggies, tempeh, hemp protein.
There was a book I saw chat was called clean vegan Keto but it's been a long time.
Staying away from things like processed cheese, processed Keto foods, concentrated oils, carcinogens is hoe to keep it clean2 -
So carbs. Pizza has a LOT more than carbs. It's high saturated and fat, dairy, tomato, processes carbs) not complex) and salt. All od these can contribute. If you had said you had a baked sweet potato, old fashioned oatmeal, a hummus powder veggie sandwich on sprouted bread,, or lentils and felt bad then its more likely either carbs or rebound affect because you had not had carbs in a while.xbowhunter wrote: »I have been on my Keto eating routine for a while now. My joint paint was noticeably better on Keto.
Last night I didn't feel like cooking, so I warmed up some pizza. Well today my joints ache and I'm feeling really sluggish and yawning.
This is telling me to not deviate from my regular low carb diet again.
It's not " carbs" broccoli is a carbohydrate.
I'm saying this only as something to think about. Not being mean or pit down or dispute. Hugs.
Btw I have SLE Lupus and arthritis, Sojourn's, Reynauds, osteoperksis... sooo I kindss get the autoimmune thing.
If xbowhunter is like more people who eat Keto, they eat lots of saturated fat, they eat cheese, tomato in limited amounts because of the carb amount, and huge amounts of salt because once one drops there blood sugar they uniate out lots of sodium. If I didn't liberally salt my food my blood pressure goes down a lot. So yes, the carbs are likely the culprit since he is likely eating all those things you point to already on a daily basis.1 -
Yes there are risks. High LDL, kidney failure, dehydration, nutrient deficiencies, constipation, lifestyle change usually temporary, no fiber, less enjoyment with food, less healthy foods on the basis of fat content, that eliminates whole foods. ( bacon but no apple) heart conditions, liver problems. Yes these ARE all.risks.
Weight loss in itself will yield better readings initially. It also can be affective in A CLINICAL SETTING, some people do better by the elimination of sugar, refined foods, simple carbs, however thefavr isnotallcarbohydrates are equally a Longshot.
High HDL is protective for heart health, kidney disease can be be lessened by a low sugar/low carb diet, you get dehydrated because you are not adding in electrolytes. When you lower carbs by eating whole foods, the amount of sodium you get in your diet is greatly reduced (look at the sodium in your processed foods), so you need to make up for it when eating single ingredient food. No nutrient deficiencies (adding in kidneys and other organ meats is a great option as well!), if you are constipated (pain and not being able to go), up your fat to help things move along. If you are calling constipation not going every day (without pain) that is just that your body is using all the nutrients in your food so that there is minimal waste. I've been keto/carnivore since 2016 and am on 0 prescriptions at 53 years old. I LOVE all the food I eat, animal fat is healthy, but seed oils, those are the bad things that you need to eliminate- they cause inflammation- and animal fat is actually an anti inflammatory food. I only eat whole foods, have a perfect heart, no liver problems (in fact, my fatty liver has been reversed), as well as my husband reversed his diabetes!
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Viridian1539 wrote: »Let's remember to keep conversation generally pleasant folks - we're here to talk about drawbacks in order to help counteract them/help newbies to the keto world decide if it is right for their bodies or not! Not to put down people who do keto one way or a different way.
As I'm meal planning for next week, I'm definitely looking at ways to do a "clean" keto. I need motivation/better planning to get more protein again, especially with resuming my regular workouts. @VegjoyP I know you remarked you've tried both vegan and clean keto - do you have any good recipe resources you utilized?
Same for everyone here: Any good high protein recipes that are keto-friendly that you can recommend? (Please note I can't eat fish, mushrooms, or tofu due to sensory and flavor issues with those foods)
HI! Glad to see you still at it! I think Keto for Lent is an AWESOME idea! Keep the updates coming! I just joined today, but have been keto/carnivore since 2016! There are TONS of recipes on youtube that are pretty simple (I even have a channel that has good meal recipes as well as protein bread, appetizers, etc). Here are some simple ideas:
1. Chicken Wings baked with your favorite spices
2. Chicken breast cooked with salsa and taco seasonings, shredded and served in romaine boats with cheese and sour cream on top for tacos
3. hamburgers are always a good thing, with lettuce wrap. You could also make a big mac salad with browned ground beef, cheese, thousand island dressing (home made is best, but do what you can), pickles, tomatoes, etc.
4. Meat and veggie omelet.
5. Pork chops with loaded broccoli on the side (like loaded potato, sub broccoli)
6. Pulled pork topped with over medium eggs and your favorite spices.1 -
There's some times I miss the "disagree" button....11
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