Any advice on my program, or stay the course?
topher347
Posts: 29 Member
I use a Planet Fitness so I have to adapt some stuff to what equipment I have available, but my current training program is below. I've recently got done with a long cut, losing 80+ pounds. I ate at maintenance for a few weeks, and just now am switching to about 100 calories over to start a slow lean bulk. Will probably up it to 200 calories over maintenance in a couple of weeks and plan to stick with that as long as I am making progress.
Monday- Rest Day
Tuesday- Early morning workout before work: Upper Body Hypertrophy
Barbell Incline Bench- 4 sets of 12
Barbell Bicep Curl- 4 sets of 12
Dumbell Fly- 4 sets of 12
Cable Tricep Extension Machine- 4 sets of 12
Cable Lat Pulldown Machine- 4 sets of 12
Cable Row Machine- 4 sets of 12
Barbell Bench Press- 4 sets of 12
Cardio at work, 2 15 minute walks 1 30 minute walk
Wednesday- Early morning workout before work: Lower Body Hypertrophy
Smith Machine Squat- 4 sets of 12
Leg Curl Machine- 4 sets of 15
Leg Extension Machine- 4 sets of 15
Calf Machine- 4 sets of 12
Back Extension Machine- 4 sets of 12
Ab Machine- 4 sets of 12
Leg Press Machine- 4 sets of 12
Cardio at work, 2 15 minute walks 1 30 minute walk
Thursday- Cardio at work, 2 15 minute walks 1 30 minute walk
Friday- Cardio at work, 2 15 minute walks 1 30 minute walk
Saturday- Upper Body Power Day
Barbell Bicep Curl- 3 sets of 10
Dumbell Incline Bench- 4 sets of 10
Cable Pulldown Machine- 4 sets of 10
Barbell Overhead Press- 3 sets of 8
Smith Machine Bench Press- 4 sets of 5
Cable Row Machine- 4 sets of 5
Barbell Bench Press- 4 sets of 6
Assisted Pull Up- 4 sets of 12
Sunday- Lower Body Power Day
Smith Machine Squat- 4 sets of 5
Smith Machine Deadlift- 4 sets of 5
Leg Extension Machine- 4 sets of 10
Leg Curl Machine- 4 sets of 10
Hip Abduction Machine- 4 sets of 8
Hip Adduction Machine- 4 sets of 8
Leg Press Machine- 5 sets of 15
Ab Machine- 4 sets of 12
I always try to go closest to failure on the last set of each exercise. For progression, I up the reps for all sets each week or two. Once I get to completing 2 extra reps per set, I go back to the original and add the next increment of weight, which is 2.5 of most of these. The only hard part is the barbell exercises, since at PF they are fixed weight barbells that cut off pretty early, and can only go up 10lbs at a time. I rest 90 seconds between sets on hypertrophy days, and 2 min on power days.
Any advise would be great!
Monday- Rest Day
Tuesday- Early morning workout before work: Upper Body Hypertrophy
Barbell Incline Bench- 4 sets of 12
Barbell Bicep Curl- 4 sets of 12
Dumbell Fly- 4 sets of 12
Cable Tricep Extension Machine- 4 sets of 12
Cable Lat Pulldown Machine- 4 sets of 12
Cable Row Machine- 4 sets of 12
Barbell Bench Press- 4 sets of 12
Cardio at work, 2 15 minute walks 1 30 minute walk
Wednesday- Early morning workout before work: Lower Body Hypertrophy
Smith Machine Squat- 4 sets of 12
Leg Curl Machine- 4 sets of 15
Leg Extension Machine- 4 sets of 15
Calf Machine- 4 sets of 12
Back Extension Machine- 4 sets of 12
Ab Machine- 4 sets of 12
Leg Press Machine- 4 sets of 12
Cardio at work, 2 15 minute walks 1 30 minute walk
Thursday- Cardio at work, 2 15 minute walks 1 30 minute walk
Friday- Cardio at work, 2 15 minute walks 1 30 minute walk
Saturday- Upper Body Power Day
Barbell Bicep Curl- 3 sets of 10
Dumbell Incline Bench- 4 sets of 10
Cable Pulldown Machine- 4 sets of 10
Barbell Overhead Press- 3 sets of 8
Smith Machine Bench Press- 4 sets of 5
Cable Row Machine- 4 sets of 5
Barbell Bench Press- 4 sets of 6
Assisted Pull Up- 4 sets of 12
Sunday- Lower Body Power Day
Smith Machine Squat- 4 sets of 5
Smith Machine Deadlift- 4 sets of 5
Leg Extension Machine- 4 sets of 10
Leg Curl Machine- 4 sets of 10
Hip Abduction Machine- 4 sets of 8
Hip Adduction Machine- 4 sets of 8
Leg Press Machine- 5 sets of 15
Ab Machine- 4 sets of 12
I always try to go closest to failure on the last set of each exercise. For progression, I up the reps for all sets each week or two. Once I get to completing 2 extra reps per set, I go back to the original and add the next increment of weight, which is 2.5 of most of these. The only hard part is the barbell exercises, since at PF they are fixed weight barbells that cut off pretty early, and can only go up 10lbs at a time. I rest 90 seconds between sets on hypertrophy days, and 2 min on power days.
Any advise would be great!
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Replies
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General thoughts here. There's a lot to like there, with your diet, workout split, going to failure on the last set only, etc. So this is mostly fine-tuning and maybe nitpicking
My first thought is that's a lot of volume some times. Especially e.g. legs power day, 21 sets hitting quads. Far too much imo. How long have you been lifting? If you're intermediate, about 1-3 years, then 15 weekly working sets is a good target, or go up to 20. Yes, there are returns above there, but diminishing. For example, drop the leg extensions on power day, and drop at least a set of one or more of the others. You're already doing squats, deadlift and leg press. That's more than enough.
I'm no fan of Smith machine for lifting heavy, especially deadlift. You miss all the stabilizer muscles getting trained. Do a barbell RDL instead. You'll probably have less weight, and that's fine.
Isolation work like arms should be done at the end, e.g. you have pullups at the end of one session and bicep curls at the start. Once warmed up, pullups should be much earlier. Given the amount of work you're doing, no offense but I'm a little surprised you can't do unassisted pullups. I mean you're doing pullups on power day, if you could get 3x5 unassisted earlier in the workout, that's better than 4x12 assisted for strength building.
Since you have access to cables, they'd be better for fly's than dumbbell's. Smoother power curve and safer.
I would add lateral raises somewhere. As above, cables probably better. You could even move some arms or lateral raise work to leg day perhaps, depending on your time management. They're easy to super-set between legs sets without adding much if any fatigue.
If you can do barbell bicep curls OK, that's fine. Personally, that would hurt my wrists. I like the EZ-bar for curls.
Check out this vid on dynamic double progression. It combines auto-regulation with probably more frequent progression than you described above. For example, if you're doing 4x12 of the same weight, then you could probably have done more reps on earlier sets. I might do set 1 for 12, and if it feels good that day, immediately go for 13 reps on sets 2 and 3, and if that still feels good, add 5 pounds and go for 12 on set 4. The next session, aim for more sets at the original weight with 13 reps and/or more sets with the higher weight for 12. And so on. I log it all in Google Sheets.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cEEyH6JtCqQ 0 -
P.S. re rest times:
"I rest 90 seconds between sets on hypertrophy days, and 2 min on power days."
I'm a fan of resting the amount of time you need for the next set to be good, however long that may be. It might be 20 seconds for calf raises, 60 seconds for bicep curls, 3 minutes or more for squats. Take the time needed for cardio and muscles to be ready, no more no less.
You could also save a bit of time with arms work by doing super-sets with a short break, e.g. ez-bar biceps curl, short rest, ez-bar skullcrusher or JM press and then immediately close grip press same rep count, short rest and repeat cycle.0 -
Retroguy2000 wrote: »
My first thought is that's a lot of volume some times. Especially e.g. legs power day, 21 sets hitting quads. Far too much imo. How long have you been lifting? Have lifted in the past before falling off.
Since I actually started again at the beginning of weight loss, has been about 11 months.
If you're intermediate, about 1-3 years, then 15 weekly working sets is a good target, or go up to 20. Yes, there are returns above there, but diminishing. For example, drop the leg extensions on power day, and drop at least a set of one or more of the others. You're already doing squats, deadlift and leg press. That's more than enough.
I'm no fan of Smith machine for lifting heavy, especially deadlift. You miss all the stabilizer muscles getting trained. Do a barbell RDL instead. You'll probably have less weight, and that's fine. I've never tried this with the small preset barbell we have at PF, they only go up to 60, but I could give it a shot.
Would dumbells work? I would definitely have to learn the form for them.
Isolation work like arms should be done at the end, e.g. you have pullups at the end of one session and bicep curls at the start. Once warmed up, pullups should be much earlier. Should have mentioned these weren't listed in the order I actually do them in a session, but will look at reorganizingGiven the amount of work you're doing, no offense but I'm a little surprised you can't do unassisted pullups. I mean you're doing pullups on power day, if you could get 3x5 unassisted earlier in the workout, that's better than 4x12 assisted for strength building.Will give this a try next time
Since you have access to cables, they'd be better for fly's than dumbbell's. Smoother power curve and safer.Haven't done them with cables before, will have to look up a form video
I would add lateral raises somewhere. As above, cables probably better. You could even move some arms or lateral raise work to leg day perhaps, depending on your time management. They're easy to super-set between legs sets without adding much if any fatigue.
If you can do barbell bicep curls OK, that's fine. Personally, that would hurt my wrists. I like the EZ-bar for curls.That was my bad on the listing, they are the EZ bar, not a normal dumbell
Check out this vid on dynamic double progression. It combines auto-regulation with probably more frequent progression than you described above. For example, if you're doing 4x12 of the same weight, then you could probably have done more reps on earlier sets. I might do set 1 for 12, and if it feels good that day, immediately go for 13 reps on sets 2 and 3, and if that still feels good, add 5 pounds and go for 12 on set 4. The next session, aim for more sets at the original weight with 13 reps and/or more sets with the higher weight for 12. And so on. I log it all in Google Sheets.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cEEyH6JtCqQ
Lots of good advice for me to take in here, I appreciate it! I'll add a few comments above in the quote where applicable.0 -
Yeah you can probably do dumbbell RDL, but it may be hard to be able to go heavy enough. In general, I'd say barbell is better, but I guess you may be limited at PF.
For form, check out Jonni Shreve. Former pro bodybuilder, excellent channel focused on form guides and cues.
https://www.youtube.com/@JonniShreve0 -
@Retroguy2000 already mentioned most of what I would have said, especially the part about order of exercises, which you rendered moot anyway by saying you did not list exercises in actual order. For future reference, when asking for advice on an exercise program, list not only the exercises performed along with sets/reps (as you did) but the actual order performed, since which ones come first or last matters quite a bit. As a general rule, the hardest/most technical exercises should be done first, with compound exercises that affect multiple muscles done before isolation exercises.
I second the idea the volume is a bit high, with four sets done almost universally for everything. I would pick just a few exercises, the ones most important to you, for the four sets, and drop the others to three or even two sets for the isolation/assistance work.0 -
@Retroguy2000 already mentioned most of what I would have said, especially the part about order of exercises, which you rendered moot anyway by saying you did not list exercises in actual order. For future reference, when asking for advice on an exercise program, list not only the exercises performed along with sets/reps (as you did) but the actual order performed, since which ones come first or last matters quite a bit. As a general rule, the hardest/most technical exercises should be done first, with compound exercises that affect multiple muscles done before isolation exercises.
I second the idea the volume is a bit high, with four sets done almost universally for everything. I would pick just a few exercises, the ones most important to you, for the four sets, and drop the others to three or even two sets for the isolation/assistance work.
Makes total sense, here's what I was thinking of switching to, in actual order this time
Monday- Rest Day
Tuesday- Early morning workout before work: Upper Body Hypertrophy
Barbell Incline Bench- 4 sets of 12
Barbell Bicep Curl- 3 sets of 12
Fly- 3 sets of 12
Cable Tricep Extension Machine- 3 sets of 12
Cable Lat Pulldown Machine- 3 sets of 12
Barbell Bench Press- 3 sets of 12
Cable Row Machine- 3 sets of 12
Cardio at work, 2 15 minute walks 1 30 minute walk
Wednesday- Early morning workout before work: Lower Body Hypertrophy
Smith Machine Squat- 4 sets of 12
Leg Curl Machine- 3 sets of 15
Leg Extension Machine- 3 sets of 15
Calf Machine- 3 sets of 12
Ab Machine- 4 sets of 12
Leg Press Machine- 4 sets of 12
Cardio at work, 2 15 minute walks 1 30 minute walk
Thursday- Cardio at work, 2 15 minute walks 1 30 minute walk
Friday- Cardio at work, 2 15 minute walks 1 30 minute walk
Saturday- Upper Body Power Day
Smith Machine Bench Press- 4 sets of 5
Barbell Bicep Curl- 3 sets of 10
Pull Up- 3 sets of 5
Dumbell Incline Bench- 4 sets of 10
Cable Pulldown Machine- 3 sets of 10
Barbell Overhead Press- 3 sets of 8
Cable Row Machine- 3 sets of 5
Barbell Bench Press- 4 sets of 6
Sunday- Lower Body Power Day
Smith Machine Squat- 4 sets of 5
Smith Machine Deadlift- 4 sets of 5
Leg Curl Machine- 3 sets of 10
Ab Machine- 3 sets of 12
Calf Machine - 3 sets of 10
Hip Abduction Machine- 3 sets of 8
Hip Adduction Machine- 3 sets of 8
Leg Press Machine- 3 sets of 15
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Better, but were it my program, I would order a little differently...Monday- Rest Day
Tuesday- Early morning workout before work: Upper Body Hypertrophy
Barbell Incline Bench- 4 sets of 12
Barbell Bench Press- 3 sets of 12
Fly- 3 sets of 12
Cable Lat Pulldown Machine- 3 sets of 12
Cable Row Machine- 3 sets of 12
Barbell Bicep Curl- 3 sets of 12
Cable Tricep Extension Machine- 3 sets of 12
Cardio at work, 2 15 minute walks 1 30 minute walk
Wednesday- Early morning workout before work: Lower Body Hypertrophy
Smith Machine Squat- 4 sets of 12
Leg Press Machine- 4 sets of 12
Leg Curl Machine- 3 sets of 15
Leg Extension Machine- 3 sets of 15
Calf Machine- 3 sets of 12
Ab Machine- 4 sets of 12
Cardio at work, 2 15 minute walks 1 30 minute walk
Thursday- Cardio at work, 2 15 minute walks 1 30 minute walk
Friday- Cardio at work, 2 15 minute walks 1 30 minute walk
Saturday- Upper Body Power Day
Smith Machine Bench Press- 4 sets of 5
Barbell Bench Press- 4 sets of 6
Dumbell Incline Bench- 3 sets of 10
Pull Up- 3 sets of 5
Cable Row Machine- 3 sets of 5
Cable Pulldown Machine- 3 sets of 10
Barbell Overhead Press- 3 sets of 8
Barbell Bicep Curl- 3 sets of 10
Sunday- Lower Body Power Day
Smith Machine Squat- 4 sets of 5
Smith Machine Deadlift- 4 sets of 5
Leg Curl Machine- 3 sets of 10
Ab Machine- 3 sets of 12
Calf Machine - 3 sets of 10
Hip Abduction Machine- 2 sets of 8
Hip Adduction Machine- 2 sets of 8
Leg Press Machine- 3 sets of 15
You still had BB curls super early on upper body day, with the BB bench press super late. These are reversed, because of the compound- and technical-nature of the bench press, with isolation arm work saved for the end of the workout. I also suggest reducing the number of sets of a couple exercises that qualify as assistance work rather than primary. (Leg press can be done early or late in a workout.)
Note my suggestions are just that: suggestions. If you have a reason for putting things in the order you did or the number of sets you have, do your own thing. Ultra-light bench presses done with super-long negatives (5-10 seconds per rep) can make a great finishing move at the end of a workout, and injury rehabilitation helped through the abduction/adduction machine may need more sets. My suggestions are merely in the light of how I would do it, not necessarily how YOU need.
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That's better.
The good is, you're doing key compounds, twice a week, vertical row + horizontal row, and sufficient volume. Diet is great, assuming at least 0.7g per pound protein. That all gets you most of the way. So again the stuff below is more fine tuning.
You still have bicep curl early on, and before any back work. When doing rows etc. you want the back muscles to be the limiting factor, not your tired biceps. I strongly recommend you put them at the end, unless your specific goal is growing arms potentially at the expense of other parts. It's fine to specialize if that's your intent.
Adding up your weekly volume:
Chest = 22 sets
Back = 15 sets
Quads = 22 sets (counting deadlift as quads, I realize other muscles get some benefit too)
Hams = 6 sets
Arms, as per Dr. Brad Schoenfeld, you get about 0.75 credit from chest/back work, plus you have some dedicated sets. So plenty there.
Shoulders, your front and rear delts will get work from chest/back, but as mentioned earlier, side delts are lacking volume. Add some lateral raises.
Hams volume is low, which is why I suggested adding barbell RDL. Dumbbell reverse lunges are good too.
I'm really not sure about Smith machine for heavy work, especially deadlift. It forces your body in a certain movement pattern, and limits stabilizer muscles which are needed for functional strength and long term injury prevention. I understand you may be limited by PF though. I'd probably only use it for higher rep work, personally.
Last thing, you have a lot more chest volume than back. Again that's fine, if your intentional goal is specializing chest. You're doing it first in both workouts, after all. And that's totally fine. If it's not your intent, I'd change e.g. cut the smith machine bench on Saturday, it's basically the same as the barbell bench on the same day anyway, make that 5 sets if you want, and add a few more sets of rows somewhere. Chest supported dumbbell rows (30 degree bench) are a good addition imo, since you can get a nice loaded stretch without much systemic fatigue or lower back fatigue.0 -
Still plenty of playing around to do.
Tuesday- Early morning workout before work: Upper Body Hypertrophy
Barbell Incline Bench- 4 sets of 12
Barbell Bench Press- 3 sets of 12
Fly- 3 sets of 12
Cable Tricep Extension Machine- 3 sets of 12
Cable Lat Pulldown Machine- 3 sets of 12
Cable Row Machine- 3 sets of 12
Barbell Bicep Curl- 3 sets of 12
Cardio at work, 2 15 minute walks 1 30 minute walk
Wednesday- Early morning workout before work: Lower Body Hypertrophy
Smith Machine Squat- 4 sets of 12
Leg Press Machine- 4 sets of 12
Leg Curl Machine- 3 sets of 15
Lateral Raise- 3 sets of 12
Calf Machine- 3 sets of 12
Ab Machine- 4 sets of 12
Cardio at work, 2 15 minute walks 1 30 minute walk
Saturday- Upper Body Power Day
Smith Machine Bench Press- 4 sets of 5
Barbell Bench Press- 4 sets of 6
Dumbell Incline Bench- 3 sets of 10
Pull Up- 3 sets of 5
Cable Row Machine- 3 sets of 5
Cable Pulldown Machine- 3 sets of 10
Barbell Overhead Press- 3 sets of 8
Barbell Bicep Curl- 3 sets of 10
Sunday- Lower Body Power Day
Smith Machine Squat- 4 sets of 5
Barbell Romanian Deadlift- 4 sets of 5
Leg Curl Machine- 3 sets of 10
Ab Machine- 3 sets of 12
Calf Machine - 3 sets of 10
Hip Abduction Machine- 2 sets of 8
Hip Adduction Machine- 2 sets of 8
Leg Press Machine- 3 sets of 15
Made some changes based on both sets of suggestions. To clarify a few other points
I still use smith for bench on this, as well as keeping so many sets of it, as I have been trying to focus on chest a bit more. I can't progress on the fixed barbell weight wise with what's available, only reps, so I like to have some sets on the smith in there to be able to increase weight. But I do the ones with the barbell with the lower weight to help with stabilizer muscles, as you were suggesting.
I imagine I may have to tweak the sets/reps on the RDL since it maxes out at 60 on the fixed barbell, but will see how it goes this week. May considering doing some heavier stuff on the smith as well, similar to the bench to be able to increase weight, but will wait and see.
I did move the curls to the end of both days.
Keep the input coming if anyone has any other suggestions. I really appreciate all the tips so far!
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Good stuff, re the changes.I still use smith for bench on this, as well as keeping so many sets of it, as I have been trying to focus on chest a bit more.
I imagine I may have to tweak the sets/reps on the RDL since it maxes out at 60 on the fixed barbell, but will see how it goes this week. May considering doing some heavier stuff on the smith as well, similar to the bench to be able to increase weight, but will wait and see.
It's totally fine to specialize. Just know, which you probably do already, that if you're doing good volume on A, B and C, and then go specialization volume on D, that much volume and intensity can catch up to you over time. You might want to do a deload every 6-8 weeks. Maybe ramp up the intensity in the couple of weeks before, then deload for a week. That doesn't mean a week off, it means maybe an extra day or two off, and workouts with maybe half the sets and half the weight.
So the max barbell is a fixed bb at 60? Is that pounds or kg? How heavy are you? I would think 60 pounds will be useless for you with RDL, and 60kg might be light too. How heavy do the db's go? If the option is heavy enough db's or not heavy enough bb, I'd go the former.0 -
Retroguy2000 wrote: »
Good stuff, re the changes.I still use smith for bench on this, as well as keeping so many sets of it, as I have been trying to focus on chest a bit more.
I imagine I may have to tweak the sets/reps on the RDL since it maxes out at 60 on the fixed barbell, but will see how it goes this week. May considering doing some heavier stuff on the smith as well, similar to the bench to be able to increase weight, but will wait and see.
It's totally fine to specialize. Just know, which you probably do already, that if you're doing good volume on A, B and C, and then go specialization volume on D, that much volume and intensity can catch up to you over time. You might want to do a deload every 6-8 weeks. Maybe ramp up the intensity in the couple of weeks before, then deload for a week. That doesn't mean a week off, it means maybe an extra day or two off, and workouts with maybe half the sets and half the weight.
So the max barbell is a fixed bb at 60? Is that pounds or kg? How heavy are you? I would think 60 pounds will be useless for you with RDL, and 60kg might be light too. How heavy do the db's go? If the option is heavy enough db's or not heavy enough bb, I'd go the former.
60lbs on the fixed barbells. The dumbells go up to 60lbs as well. I'm generally around 137lbs or so, shot up a bit atm after a trip and some air travel that I'm recovering from.0 -
Ah, then yeah that 60lb bb is too light for RDL etc. The db's should be good though. Start lower until you get the form ofc.
Btw, I've seen it mentioned that you can expect to do about 20% more with a bb than db's. Maybe something to keep in mind when going between bar and db's for chest etc.
Speaking of RDL, this is a fantastic form guide. I'm not familiar with the author other than this page:
https://www.strengthbyjaimebarroso.com/articles-1/your-complete-guide-to-romanian-deadlifts0 -
One thing which popped up in my eyes is doing lateral raise on lower body hypertrophy day. Not a sin, some people do choose to group legs and shoulders together, but curious you have other shoulder exercises on upper body days, and a single shoulder exercise on lower body.0
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Does it matter? It could be a time issue, or maybe fatigue related. I do db shoulder press on leg day because I feel fresh there (lift every 2 days), and I finish back/chest with lateral raise because even though I'm tired by then, I'm not too tired for raises.One thing which popped up in my eyes is doing lateral raise on lower body hypertrophy day. Not a sin, some people do choose to group legs and shoulders together, but curious you have other shoulder exercises on upper body days, and a single shoulder exercise on lower body.0 -
I only mention it because some years back I had some type of shoulder work done virtually every day I was in the gym, and without a chance to have rest days my shoulders eventually rebelled. Doing shoulders on leg day instead of upper body day is fine; doing shoulders every day without rest is not.0
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