bulking and building muscles
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The problem with using the body fat percentage formula to track gains is that as a woman I (and Jessica) will only be gaining at the very most 5lbs of muscle in say 6 months (and that is really being generous). I weight 150lbs. 5lbs of muscle is only 3.3% of my body weight which is within the error of body fat measurements. In 1.5 months I've most likely only gained 1lb of muscle. That's less than 1% of my body weight. Again, not distinguishable by body fat measurements. BUT when I look in the mirror, or feel my pants being tighter in the quads, then I can tell that I've gained muscle.
Rae6503 Selector, if a person doesn't use the formula, how can they honestly tell how much muscle they have gained?0 -
The problem with using the body fat percentage formula to track gains is that as a woman I (and Jessica) will only be gaining at the very most 5lbs of muscle in say 6 months (and that is really being generous). I weight 150lbs. 5lbs of muscle is only 3.3% of my body weight which is within the error of body fat measurements. In 1.5 months I've most likely only gained 1lb of muscle. That's less than 1% of my body weight. Again, not distinguishable by body fat measurements. BUT when I look in the mirror, or feel my pants being tighter in the quads, then I can tell that I've gained muscle.
Rae6503 Selector, if a person doesn't use the formula, how can they honestly tell how much muscle they have gained?
I can look at my photos and say, "my muscles are bigger". I can lift twice as much as I did when I started. Therefore, I've gained muscle. There's no quantitative way to measure exactly. Very little in science is exact. Most science has error. If what you are trying to measure falls within the error limits then it cannot be measured.0 -
Jessicaruby, I don't know how much muscle you want to gain, but use this formula that a lot of bodybuilders use to track their progress.
Weight x Body fat percentage = Pounds of fat
Weight - Pounds of fat = Pounds of lean body mass.
Name one competitive bodybuilder that uses this formula, and show me where he/she said it.
(I'd be surprised if you could name one competitive bodybuilder, much less answer the question).0 -
Personally, I wouldn't knowingly eat a surplus.
Muscle is put on so slowly (especially for women), that you really don't need that many extra calories a day. If I were you, I'd just aim to "not be in a deficit" rather than to deliberately eat extra. Then if you slip over every so often, then so be it - who cares?
It would be a good idea to increase your protein though - maybe try for 1g of protein per lb of bodyweight. Try that for a few weeks and if your lifts increase stick with it or experiment with adding a 100 extra calories here and there. If you're training hard and your measurements and lifts aren't improving, then try increasing your daily calories until they do (but keep an eye on your waist measurement!).
That said, if you do eat 100 calories extra a day and it doesn't build muscle, it would take a whole month to put on a lb of fat, so you don't have to be too scared of playing around with your caloric intake.0 -
OP - re muscle gains...
It's hard to judge if you gain or not, scientifically-speaking. The mirror is your friend, as are photos.
Even increased lifts don't tell the tale - a lot of initial strength gains come from tendons and ligaments, and for newbies, just getting used to performing an exercise properly can mean quite big increases in weights moved without a single lb of extra muscle.
Measurements are useful, though, albeit very rough as a guide. Generally speaking, if my waist measurement is static or decreasing and my chest, arms and thighs are increasing, then I'm gaining muscle. If my waist starts to increase then I know there's some fat gain going on, too.0 -
Personally, I wouldn't knowingly eat a surplus.
Muscle is put on so slowly (especially for women), that you really don't need that many extra calories a day. If I were you, I'd just aim to "not be in a deficit" rather than to deliberately eat extra. Then if you slip over every so often, then so be it - who cares?
It would be a good idea to increase your protein though - maybe try for 1g of protein per lb of bodyweight. Try that for a few weeks and if your lifts increase stick with it or experiment with adding a 100 extra calories here and there. If you're training hard and your measurements and lifts aren't improving, then try increasing your daily calories until they do (but keep an eye on your waist measurement!).
That said, if you do eat 100 calories extra a day and it doesn't build muscle, it would take a whole month to put on a lb of fat, so you don't have to be too scared of playing around with your caloric intake.
then you run the risk of just spinning your wheels, if you want to try and recomp then have a plan in place and a lot of patience. if not pick a goal, train and eat towards that goal and then you can always shed the fat later or bulk up later depending on what you chose to do0 -
You really don't need to lift that long. 45-60 should be more than sufficient. Keep increasing weight without sacrificing form. Keep your reps to 8-10 and make sure you recover enough to do the next set. Take in enough protein (consensus is 1 gram per pound of bodyweight) and also adequate carbs.so i really want to build my muscles so i decided to increase my cals. i made this decision a few days ago and i posted about it. while it is not a huge amount more and it has only been about 4 or 5 days i just feel fatter. i know it takes a while to build muscle but i am concerned i am not lifting enough to adequietly build muscle. i lift 4 days a week for about 65-70min each time. i use 15, 20 and 30lbs dumbells and some machines. i just recently started using the bar to do squats, deadlifts and bent-over rows. i started just with the 45lb bar and in a about a week and a half have moved up 20lbs. this weight doesnt seem like enough to me but i dont want to hurt myself by trying more weights until i build up to them.... is this going to build my muscles with my calorie increase or am i just going to get fat? help
You cannot build muscle without adding a little fat too. Figure that it will be at least .3lbs or more of fat for every pound of muscle gained.
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Just to make sure I'm reading that last line correctly... are you saying that for every pound of muscle gained, one should expect to gain a third of a pound of fat (or more)? I was under the impression that the ratio was much higher (more fat than muscle)...0 -
This is a very interesting thread. I am reading it with interest because I have started weight-training (again) after about a 3 year absence. And, I am running a (small) calorie deficit. I did plan on gauging whether or not I was gaining strength by how much heavier I would be lifting (on a weekly basis), actually. (I am following "body for life"'s training guide.)0
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I can look at my photos and say, "my muscles are bigger". I can lift twice as much as I did when I started. Therefore, I've gained muscle. There's no quantitative way to measure exactly. Very little in science is exact. Most science has error. If what you are trying to measure falls within the error limits then it cannot be measured.
I love math.0 -
The "formula" only WORKS if the information is 100% accurate. You still don't get it. Body fat testing has a +/- 2% to 3% variance which would totally change the outcome. Different methods yield different results. So which one you go with?Rae6503 Selector, if a person doesn't use the formula, how can they honestly tell how much muscle they have gained?
The formula only distinguishes between body fat and lean body mass. Water can disrupt the reading. So can having "excretement" in the colon. Get over it.
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She relies on Scooby the body builder. Scooby Doo has better intelligence.Jessicaruby, I don't know how much muscle you want to gain, but use this formula that a lot of bodybuilders use to track their progress.
Weight x Body fat percentage = Pounds of fat
Weight - Pounds of fat = Pounds of lean body mass.
Name one competitive bodybuilder that uses this formula, and show me where he/she said it.
(I'd be surprised if you could name one competitive bodybuilder, much less answer the question).
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There are variances. Genetics make a difference. And hormone levels will too.Some may gain 3lbs of fat for every pound of muscle. Some may only gain very little fat along with a pound of muscle who has a high testosterone and GH level.Just to make sure I'm reading that last line correctly... are you saying that for every pound of muscle gained, one should expect to gain a third of a pound of fat (or more)? I was under the impression that the ratio was much higher (more fat than muscle)...
On average I would estimate a 1 to 2 ratio, 1 pound of muscle and 2lbs of fat.
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Unfortunately you correlate 3lbs weights as strength training. That's bad math unless you're a 10 year kid.I can look at my photos and say, "my muscles are bigger". I can lift twice as much as I did when I started. Therefore, I've gained muscle. There's no quantitative way to measure exactly. Very little in science is exact. Most science has error. If what you are trying to measure falls within the error limits then it cannot be measured.
I love math.
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Journal of Strength and Conditioning Research has applied studies to this.
Current dogma seems to be 6-8 reps, max weight for bulk; 8-12 reps for strength; 12+ for endurance. Lots of books and sites say something similar to this but I must admit I've seen no scientific peer reviewed studies on this. Love to know if anyone else out there has some references.
1-4 reps for max power
5-8 reps for strength
8-12 reps for muscle hypertrophy
12+ for muscular endurance.
Thanks for this.0 -
The time I spent in, and around, gyms from 16 to 25, time spent with competitive bodybuilding firends, both male and female.... I NEVER saw nor heard anyone using this method.
They did, however, use their own eyes by checking out their reflection and reading the tape measure.
Competitive bodybuilders aren't that interested in the exact weight of muscle gain, as the judges at the shows dont tend to carry bodyfat analysis equipment and previous body stats of the competitors to award the trophys to. They tend to just look at them going through the compulsary poses and free routines, then awarding the rewards to the ones that LOOK the best, based on their judging guidelines. (symetry, definition, vascularity etc)
AZ. I know this has been asked in the past, but you COULD prove all the others wrong with the simple upload of a before and after pic, of yourself, to show us how your "math" has worked for you.. We may all learn something then.0 -
It's only been 4-5 days and you "feel fat" already? It sounds psychological to me.0
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Bumping...great info.!0
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AZ. I know this has been asked in the past, but you COULD prove all the others wrong with the simple upload of a before and after pic, of yourself, to show us how your "math" has worked for you.. We may all learn something then.
I don't have to prove myself to anyone. When I'm ready to show pictures, I will. No one control me, but me.0 -
THIS. Body builders DON'T carry around calipers in their gym bags and have their "buds" check their body fat! They won't hire a personal trainer either since their routines are made up by themselves and most have too much of an ego (nor the money since many spend lots on "gear") hire one.The time I spent in, and around, gyms from 16 to 25, time spent with competitive bodybuilding firends, both male and female.... I NEVER saw nor heard anyone using this method.
They did, however, use their own eyes by checking out their reflection and reading the tape measure.
Competitive bodybuilders aren't that interested in the exact weight of muscle gain, as the judges at the shows dont tend to carry bodyfat analysis equipment and previous body stats of the competitors to award the trophys to. They tend to just look at them going through the compulsary poses and free routines, then awarding the rewards to the ones that LOOK the best, based on their judging guidelines. (symetry, definition, vascularity etc)
AZ. I know this has been asked in the past, but you COULD prove all the others wrong with the simple upload of a before and after pic, of yourself, to show us how your "math" has worked for you.. We may all learn something then.
This post reflects what I've stated that they use mirrors, the scale, tape measurements, strength increase, and even clothing they wear to gauge their muscle building progress. But some how AZ decides that what she says (even though she DOESN'T follow a body building routine to gain muscle) KNOWS she absolutely correct when it comes to this. Ndamukong Suh must be her cousin or something.
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This is why no one takes your posts or opinions seriously. It's ONLY about you. What you think YOU say is correct and NO ONE else is. When you come across that way, then the "haters" (and even the lurkers) come out and just watch you burn down in flames.I don't have to prove myself to anyone. When I'm ready to show pictures, I will. No one control me, but me.
I've eaten crow here a few times and will public admit when I'm wrong. I use that as a learning experience and it's good for expanding your education.
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AZ. I know this has been asked in the past, but you COULD prove all the others wrong with the simple upload of a before and after pic, of yourself, to show us how your "math" has worked for you.. We may all learn something then.
I don't have to prove myself to anyone. When I'm ready to show pictures, I will. No one controlS me, but me.
I never said that YOU had to prove anything about YOURSELF.
BUT you continually atempt to disscredit time proven methods, methods that many follow, methods are proven successful (albeit some people do fail using them, but with tweeks can be successful), with your "MY WAY WORKS" posts.
What im asking for is for YOU to prove YOUR method is successful, not Scooby.. YOU.
You say that "no one controls you" (see I fixed that for you).. NO ON£ is attempting to.. We're all sponges soaking in the seas of knowledge. Enlighten us.. Show us where we've been going wrong thoughout bodybuilding history.0 -
I never said that YOU had to prove anything about YOURSELF.
BUT you continually atempt to disscredit time proven methods, methods that many follow, methods are proven successful (albeit some people do fail using them, but with tweeks can be successful), with your "MY WAY WORKS" posts.
What im asking for is for YOU to prove YOUR method is successful, not Scooby.. YOU.
You say that "no one controls you" (see I fixed that for you).. NO ON£ is attempting to.. We're all sponges soaking in the seas of knowledge. Enlighten us.. Show us where we've been going wrong thoughout bodybuilding history.
DoncasterPhot Selector, don't try to be a grammar expert. Thank you for correcting me, but before you try to think you know it all, check your writing.
Lets look at your errors:
* atempt supposed to be attempt
* disscredit supposed to be discredit
* i'm supposed to be I'm
Don't ever try to come at me with grammar!
I don't have to prove myself to you or anyone else. Respect that. If I want to post what Scooby said, I will do so and you can't stop me. A lot of people are posting things that other people have said. Now, you can use that ignore button, because I'm about to us it. I don't have time for mess. I just put messy people on ignore. I don't come here to fight with anyone.0 -
Lets look at your errors:
* atempt is supposed to be attempt
* disscredit is supposed to be discredit
* i'm is supposed to be I'm
Don't ever try to come at me with grammar!
Oh, the hilarity.
Do you know the difference between spelling and grammar?0 -
I never said that YOU had to prove anything about YOURSELF.
BUT you continually atempt to disscredit time proven methods, methods that many follow, methods are proven successful (albeit some people do fail using them, but with tweeks can be successful), with your "MY WAY WORKS" posts.
What im asking for is for YOU to prove YOUR method is successful, not Scooby.. YOU.
You say that "no one controls you" (see I fixed that for you).. NO ON£ is attempting to.. We're all sponges soaking in the seas of knowledge. Enlighten us.. Show us where we've been going wrong thoughout bodybuilding history.
DoncasterPhot Selector, don't try to be a grammar expert. Thank you for correcting me, but before you try to think you know it all, check your writing.
Lets look at your errors:
* atempt supposed to be attempt
* disscredit supposed to be discredit
* i'm supposed to be I'm
Don't ever try to come at me with grammar!
I don't have to prove myself to you or anyone else. Respect that. If I want to post what Scooby said, I will do so and you can't stop me. A lot of people are posting things that other people have said. Now, you can use that ignore button, because I'm about to us it. I don't have time for mess. I just put messy people on ignore. I don't come here to fight with anyone.
Fair play.. you got me there... alas you missed on£.. ;o)
Might I ask who "Selector" is?
Why dont you get off your "what i know I KNOW" horse and post some proof that what you're doing is actually working? People may then take what you say a little more seriously.
Yes, people post what others have said.. That isn't what I was aiming at with the scooby posting. Those that post what they've read, heard or learnt from other sources, then give their words credibility with actual proof that it works. Generally with the uploading of before and after pictures.
Why cant you? camera shy or is it that your method is bunkum and a total fail?
Finally, I see little point in the ignore button. I stopped that kind of behaviour during primary school.0 -
Sort of off topic: but for a good laugh go and check out some of the advice on Scooby's forum.
I personally love the "if it tastes good, spit it out" method
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Fight? Lol, pretty weak at fighting then when you don't have studies to back your claims.DoncasterPhot Selector, don't try to be a grammar expert. Thank you for correcting me, but before you try to think you know it all, check your writing.
Lets look at your errors:
* atempt supposed to be attempt
* disscredit supposed to be discredit
* i'm supposed to be I'm
Don't ever try to come at me with grammar!
I don't have to prove myself to you or anyone else. Respect that. If I want to post what Scooby said, I will do so and you can't stop me. A lot of people are posting things that other people have said. Now, you can use that ignore button, because I'm about to us it. I don't have time for mess. I just put messy people on ignore. I don't come here to fight with anyone.
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I personally love the "if it tastes good, spit it out" method
Gee, you're in big trouble after yesterdays sugar feast then Chris! You probably have about 12 hrs left before you turn in to an obese man-cow :laugh:0 -
I personally love the "if it tastes good, spit it out" method
Gee, you're in big trouble after yesterdays sugar feast then Chris! You probably have about 12 hrs left before you turn in to an obese man-cow :laugh:
haha true! Interestingly, I was expecting some serious water weight this morning but nope nothing. Weird.0 -
I don't have to prove myself to you or anyone else. Respect that. If I want to post what Scooby said, I will do so and you can't stop me. A lot of people are posting things that other people have said. Now, you can use that ignore button, because I'm about to us it. I don't have time for mess. I just put messy people on ignore. I don't come here to fight with anyone.
You totally come on here to fight with people. What's that? You don't believe me? But I made a baseless assertion, and you can't control what I say. So, it must be true. "I don't have to prove myself to your or anyone else." That's really a matter of perspective. Obviously you don't think you have to prove anything. If we cared what you thought instead of what you could reasonably demonstrate, justify, or otherwise validate in some rational way, this part of the discussion wouldn't be happening, would it? You can pretend to not care about what anyone else thinks, but if that were really true, you wouldn't bother posting at all.
Now, feel free to nom away at that troll food.0 -
bump for the good information.0
This discussion has been closed.
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