How does the Paleo diet work?
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Who invited the BB.com miscers? Seriously, you guys are so full of yourselves. I can talk insulin until your fingers bleed and I don't have to look up PubMed articles to know what I'm talking about anymore.
Ok then, what do you think causes metabolic dysregulation? I'd love to hear your expert opinion since you're so great at critical reviews of these articles.
Let me guess: EBIL CARBZES/???0 -
I will get back to this.. but I have to get back to doing some real science for my thesis today or my supervisor will be most displeased with me tomorrow. But I do want to just mention this
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What "other side"? His cherry picking and misrepresenting his sources is enough to invalidate is conclusions. Period. "
If this is so then you should not believe that fats have anything to do with heart disease.
No cherry picking should ONLY invalidate the studies that involve them. If a scientist cherry picks a bit in one study but not in others does not make the others bad science.
As to what I do believe. That low carb works for some people, where as simple calorie restriction may not. (and does it matter how people get there in the end, as long as people get there? ALso low fat makes me feel deprived and hungry, low carb does not. So you also have the issue with sustainability) I believe more research needs to be done. I believe we do not have all the answers, that the science is muddy enough that that there are NO clear answers. However there is enough evidence that hormones DO affect weight loss/gain so should not be dismissed out of hand.
You see to believe (correct me if I am wrong) that you know all the answers, that things are black and white. I am simply positing the idea that low carb/paleo type diets work because there is more going on than simple calories in vs calories out. All you have done is try to tell me I am wrong with out trying to explain the confounding factors that must be there if you are right.0 -
Who invited the BB.com miscers? Seriously, you guys are so full of yourselves. I can talk insulin until your fingers bleed and I don't have to look up PubMed articles to know what I'm talking about anymore.
Ok then, what do you think causes metabolic dysregulation? I'd love to hear your expert opinion since you're so great at critical reviews of these articles.
Let me guess: EBIL CARBZES/???
LOL, no. I never said I was anti-carb. In fact, I stated (I think in another thread) that a normal-carb and low-carb diet do not differ significantly in weight loss at the end of 6-12 months. I like this WOE because fat and protein stimulate PYY and secretin and CCK which all lead to appetite suppression and slowed digestion, respectively. Plus fiber, namely the resistant starch we see in veggies, is excellent for promoting the health of good bacteria in the gut and reducing gut permeability. So I stay full which makes it easier to maintain my deficit for fat loss, and I tend to eat more veggies because meat on its own is boring.
Also, I may only be a few months shy of 25, but I am halfway through my PhD. Don't get me wrong, I don't know everything about the human body, but I know a **** TON about metabolic dysregulation. I have been fortunate enough to run my OWN research projects.0 -
All this argument is getting old. if you want to see if Paleo/Primal works for you, try it for 30 days. The results will speak for themselves.
I started to eat Primally in order to lose weight, and after about 3 days, I didn't care if I never lost another pound! My energy has increased to levels I have never experienced. I have cut my prescription meds in half (antidepressants, metformin) and am well on my way to eliminating them entirely. I am hardly ever hungry, yet have tons of energy. I sleep better. I no longer have patches of dry skin. My hair is thicker and shinier. I could go on. I have lost 34 pounds, which is fantastic, but the true benefit is discovering that life does not have to be a daily slog of exhaustion, constant hunger, and brain fog. I truly never knew it was possible to feel so great, and I wouldn't go back to the Standard American Diet if you paid me.
For lots of great info, check out Mark's Daily Apple-- www.marksdailyapple.com There are tons of articles, and the user forums are also useful.0 -
All this argument is getting old. if you want to see if Paleo/Primal works for you, try it for 30 days. The results will speak for themselves.
I started to eat Primally in order to lose weight, and after about 3 days, I didn't care if I never lost another pound! My energy has increased to levels I have never experienced. I have cut my prescription meds in half (antidepressants, metformin) and am well on my way to eliminating them entirely. I am hardly ever hungry, yet have tons of energy. I sleep better. I no longer have patches of dry skin. My hair is thicker and shinier. I could go on. I have lost 34 pounds, which is fantastic, but the true benefit is discovering that life does not have to be a daily slog of exhaustion, constant hunger, and brain fog. I truly never knew it was possible to feel so great, and I wouldn't go back to the Standard American Diet if you paid me.
For lots of great info, check out Mark's Daily Apple-- www.marksdailyapple.com There are tons of articles, and the user forums are also useful.
Sounds like you were in serious need of some dietary fat! So great that you were able to make such big changes. I have noticed that I never get painfully hungry anymore, which is saying a lot, because going 6 hours without food (can't eat in the lab) used to be so unpleasant.0 -
I will get back to this.. but I have to get back to doing some real science for my thesis today or my supervisor will be most displeased with me tomorrow. But I do want to just mention this
"
What "other side"? His cherry picking and misrepresenting his sources is enough to invalidate is conclusions. Period. "
If this is so then you should not believe that fats have anything to do with heart disease.
No cherry picking should ONLY invalidate the studies that involve them. If a scientist cherry picks a bit in one study but not in others does not make the others bad science.
This is not what I'm referring to at all. Taubes consistently references outdated studies which support his claims while ignoring more current data that refutes it. Furthermore, he misrepresents and misenterprets his sources on a regular basis. In fact there have been sources of his who have come out and said so.As to what I do believe. That low carb works for some people, where as simple calorie restriction may not. (and does it matter how people get there in the end, as long as people get there? ALso low fat makes me feel deprived and hungry, low carb does not. So you also have the issue with sustainability) I believe more research needs to be done. I believe we do not have all the answers, that the science is muddy enough that that there are NO clear answers. However there is enough evidence that hormones DO affect weight loss/gain so should not be dismissed out of hand.
You see to believe (correct me if I am wrong) that you know all the answers, that things are black and white. I am simply positing the idea that low carb/paleo type diets work because there is more going on than simple calories in vs calories out. All you have done is try to tell me I am wrong with out trying to explain the confounding factors that must be there if you are right.
Except that there is no evidence to back the claim that the underlying method behind fat loss is anything other than a caloric deficit. Hormonal changes do have some effect, but this plays into the "calories out" side of the equation. Low carb/paleo diets work for people that respond well to low carbs, not by hormonal changes but because they contain foods that are satiating. There is no strong evidence to believe otherwise.0 -
Except that there is no evidence to back the claim that the underlying method behind fat loss is anything other than a caloric deficit. Hormonal changes do have some effect, but this plays into the "calories out" side of the equation. Low carb/paleo diets work for people that respond well to low carbs, not by hormonal changes but because they contain foods that are satiating. There is no strong evidence to believe otherwise.
Apparently I'm being ignored.
Everyone will lose weight quickly on a low-carb diet. Anyone who depletes their glycogen stores and enters ketosis will lose glycogen and water weight and be in a constant state of water-loss to make lots of urea and filter lots of ketones. They work the same way for everyone. You would experience appetite suppression as well. Compared to a normal-carbohdyrate diet, you would probably not lose any more body fat on a keto-type diet. Higher carbohydrate diets have been shown to decrease LDL cholesterol, while higher-fat diets have been shown to increase HDL cholesterol. Both good things. Hormone levels ARE different, however. I'm sure it won't matter if I go into that because no one is talking to me anymore. :laugh:0 -
All this argument is getting old. if you want to see if Paleo/Primal works for you, try it for 30 days. The results will speak for themselves.
I started to eat Primally in order to lose weight, and after about 3 days, I didn't care if I never lost another pound! My energy has increased to levels I have never experienced. I have cut my prescription meds in half (antidepressants, metformin) and am well on my way to eliminating them entirely. I am hardly ever hungry, yet have tons of energy. I sleep better. I no longer have patches of dry skin. My hair is thicker and shinier. I could go on. I have lost 34 pounds, which is fantastic, but the true benefit is discovering that life does not have to be a daily slog of exhaustion, constant hunger, and brain fog. I truly never knew it was possible to feel so great, and I wouldn't go back to the Standard American Diet if you paid me.
For lots of great info, check out Mark's Daily Apple-- www.marksdailyapple.com There are tons of articles, and the user forums are also useful.
Sounds like you were in serious need of some dietary fat! So great that you were able to make such big changes. I have noticed that I never get painfully hungry anymore, which is saying a lot, because going 6 hours without food (can't eat in the lab) used to be so unpleasant.
Yes, I certainly was! I had spent years eating "right" (whole grain, lean protein, fruit and veg) and gained and gained and gained while feeling like complete crap. Getting rid of the grain and increasing fat proved to be what my body needed.
Isn't it great to not be hungry all the time? I would not have been able to function in your lab-- would have been a dizzy, shaking mess due to blood sugar issues! I love being able to just eat when I am hungry and forget about food the rest of the time. And I *love* food, lol!0 -
Except that there is no evidence to back the claim that the underlying method behind fat loss is anything other than a caloric deficit. Hormonal changes do have some effect, but this plays into the "calories out" side of the equation. Low carb/paleo diets work for people that respond well to low carbs, not by hormonal changes but because they contain foods that are satiating. There is no strong evidence to believe otherwise.
Apparently I'm being ignored.
Everyone will lose weight quickly on a low-carb diet. Anyone who depletes their glycogen stores and enters ketosis will lose glycogen and water weight and be in a constant state of water-loss to make lots of urea and filter lots of ketones. They work the same way for everyone. You would experience appetite suppression as well. Compared to a normal-carbohdyrate diet, you would probably not lose any more body fat on a keto-type diet. Higher carbohydrate diets have been shown to decrease LDL cholesterol, while higher-fat diets have been shown to increase HDL cholesterol. Both good things. Hormone levels ARE different, however. I'm sure it won't matter if I go into that because no one is talking to me anymore. :laugh:
Nobody said that hormone levels weren't different, just that they do not make a significant difference in fat loss given an isocaloric diet.0 -
Wow, acg67! Now we know how you got that body! You really know your stuff!
I haven't researched the paleo diet, as I am cutting calories and exercising, while cutting down on carbs and eating more protein to lose weight, which is sort of the idea behind losing weight I thought, but is paleo kind of like atkins? You know, cut carbs and eat mostly protein?
If I have completely lost sight of this whole conversation, please ignore me. I have mommy brain, and at times it gets a bit fuzzy and I say stupid things.:grumble:
Okay, I just went back and found your post that explained what the diet is about. This thread is way too far out of my league, so im going to bow out now!0 -
Except that there is no evidence to back the claim that the underlying method behind fat loss is anything other than a caloric deficit. Hormonal changes do have some effect, but this plays into the "calories out" side of the equation. Low carb/paleo diets work for people that respond well to low carbs, not by hormonal changes but because they contain foods that are satiating. There is no strong evidence to believe otherwise.
Apparently I'm being ignored.
Everyone will lose weight quickly on a low-carb diet. Anyone who depletes their glycogen stores and enters ketosis will lose glycogen and water weight and be in a constant state of water-loss to make lots of urea and filter lots of ketones. They work the same way for everyone. You would experience appetite suppression as well. Compared to a normal-carbohdyrate diet, you would probably not lose any more body fat on a keto-type diet. Higher carbohydrate diets have been shown to decrease LDL cholesterol, while higher-fat diets have been shown to increase HDL cholesterol. Both good things. Hormone levels ARE different, however. I'm sure it won't matter if I go into that because no one is talking to me anymore. :laugh:
Nobody said that hormone levels weren't different, just that they do not make a significant difference in fat loss given an isocaloric diet.
What hormones are you thinking of?0 -
I think we should all be happy with the decision someone has made that works for them. I am a firm believer that knocking someone down when they are happy with themselves takes them to a questioning world in thier mind which sabatoges any success they have made for themselves. Dun....your doing fabulous. Keep up the good work girl!b I myself have been doing MFP and restricting calories and working out like a crazy woman and have lost hardly nothing. But i have lost more weight in the past by restricing my carbs.0
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I only took exception to the post
"all diets work the same way, calorie restriction" "
so what diet works by eating in a surplus? consciously or unconsciously all diets work in the same manner.0 -
Wow, this thread made me dizzy! I was hoping to get a more specific explanation about this diet, but songbyrdsweet showed that my current diet (normal carbohydrate, border-line low-carbohydrate) will work just about the same as the Paleo diet. Since I have no idea what in the world ketosis is, I'm going to stick to my healthy diet of eating primarily complex carbs, lean protein, and mostly non-animal sources of fat (I have to control cholesterol intake) in about a 45/35/15 ratio respectively. I used to go strictly 50/30/20, but my body tends to want more protein and for some reason, I never have any problem getting enough of it in my diet. Getting enough fat is my biggest challenge. Thanks for a busy thread, keep the debate war going!0
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Where is it writen that Paleo has to be low carb? As long as the carbs came from the ground/trees without processing (like bread/flour) they're fine. In fact my carb intake went UP when I went full fledged Paleo for a few months. I'd still be Paleo but I'm maintaining now and don't need really want to lose any more fat (below 20%) and I was getting too muscular for my liking. Now I'm Paleo during the week and PIggy during the weekend.0
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Just to clarify a few things about Paleo.
1) It aims for a higher intake of omega 3 via grass fed meats, fish, whole eggs etc.
2) the Primal variant of Paleo allows for diary consumption provided you tolerate it
3) it encourages the consumption of loads of vegetables
4) encourages reduction of stress, lots of exercise while avoiding over training
5) there are low fat and high fat versions
6) is predicated on eating what we "evolved to eat" prior to the adoption of agriculture
Much of the ancestral health movement uses the "Paleo" concept as a framework or a starting point for determining a healthy way to eat and lose weight. It is only a starting point though. There are the fringe extremists as always but many of the proponents are rational and attempt to base their claims on published research. Check out Robb Wolf, or the site thedailylipid.com for some interesting reading.
You'll find plenty of RDs who will support Paleo provided it's the low saturated fat version. Personally I think there is little wrong with the diet and it does allow a fair amount of variability.
There is much debate about what a Paleo Diet actually is since it's likely the diet would have varied depending on the local flora and fauna, never the less it didn't consist of twinkles, donuts and coke. Generally Paleo diets are lower carb but they are not zero carb and are not ketogenic. There are some modern hunter gather groups that eat very high carb but it's rare, this combined with the likely availability of foods to pre-agricultural humans is the basis for the macro nutrient ratios recommended by most Paleo diets.
This is a bit of a rambling explanation of Paleo/Primal but it's actually quite a large topic. Search Loren Cordain or Robb Wolf for plenty more information.0 -
I have lost more weight simply by cutting carbs (I am not advocating this for everyone, just if you are having an improper hormonal response, which according to my Dr can be genetic) in less than a month than I did in months or running and calorie restriction. Though once I drop a bit more I want to get back to running.
In case you weren't aware, carbs hold water so cutting carbs cuts how much water you hold as well. That's why "weight loss" is a silly goal compared to actual body fat percentages.0 -
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I only took exception to the post
"all diets work the same way, calorie restriction" "
so what diet works by eating in a surplus? consciously or unconsciously all diets work in the same manner.
I can't believe how many people are going crazy over that comment.
Calorie restriction works regardless of diet. No magical diet is going to make you lose weight while eating a calorie surplus. It's not that hard to figure out people.0 -
I hate my internet and double posts!0
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Where is it writen that Paleo has to be low carb? As long as the carbs came from the ground/trees without processing (like bread/flour) they're fine. In fact my carb intake went UP when I went full fledged Paleo for a few months. I'd still be Paleo but I'm maintaining now and don't need really want to lose any more fat (below 20%) and I was getting too muscular for my liking. Now I'm Paleo during the week and PIggy during the weekend.
It's generally lower carb by proxy when you remove cultivated grains and limit dairy. That pretty much leaves tubors and fruit. I eat plenty of nuts and berries and veggies, but I tend to fall around 15% carbohydrates naturally. Anything below 40-50% carbohydrate is considered 'low' by dietary standards.0
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