Ketosis

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msarro
msarro Posts: 2,748 Member
in Food and Nutrition
So, tell me more. I'm pretty firmly lodged in a plateau now (have been in the same +-2lb range for about 2 months despite running/cycling daily, eating correctly, etc) and I'm considering a temporary foray into ketosis to kick things back into gear. However, I want to know more.

I could never do it as a long term thing - a diet where its ok to eat mayo but not an apple seems idiotic to me. I'm just looking for something to break this plateau and I think it may help to reduce my sugar intake.

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  • msarro
    msarro Posts: 2,748 Member
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    So, tell me more. I'm pretty firmly lodged in a plateau now (have been in the same +-2lb range for about 2 months despite running/cycling daily, eating correctly, etc) and I'm considering a temporary foray into ketosis to kick things back into gear. However, I want to know more.

    I could never do it as a long term thing - a diet where its ok to eat mayo but not an apple seems idiotic to me. I'm just looking for something to break this plateau and I think it may help to reduce my sugar intake.
  • SHBoss1673
    SHBoss1673 Posts: 7,161 Member
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    A ketogenic diet is a lifestyle not a plateau breaker.

    I can give you plenty of plateau breakers, but changing the way your body generates and stores energy isn't the way to do it.

    Ketogenic diets are great for people who can do them comfortably, but they are something you need to stick with.

    tell me what you have done and are doing to try and break it. And what your daily routine is. We'll see what we can come up with.
  • 4suredistime
    4suredistime Posts: 78
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    Just saw this post, and could not help but chime in. :happy:

    I have been on one for the past 4 months, and It is working very well for me. I was quite amazed at first when my physician told me about it, but after researching and actually starting it, I find it even more amazing what my body is capable of.

    It is indeed a lifestyle! And I can easily see myself sticking to this for a long long time.

    There are so many misconceptions out there about the so-called "starvation-mode", but if done right and with discipline, it can be a very healthy lifestyle.

    I look forward to reading more from you!:flowerforyou:
  • msarro
    msarro Posts: 2,748 Member
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    Average breakfast -
    Granny Smith apple with 2tbsp crunchy peanut butter + glass of kefir OR
    2 Egg+veggie (onion mushroom, pepper) ommelette with coffee OR
    Fiber one bar + apple + glass of kefir

    Average morning snack
    Protein bar of some kind. I usually aim for highest fiber/protein contents I can find while keeping calories around 150

    Average midday snack
    1/4 cup raw almonds

    Average lunch
    2 slices weight watchers whole wheat bread
    veggie burger of some kind (I aim for higher calorie/protein ones on running days, the lesser ones on off days)
    1 slice kraft fat free cheese
    Ketchup (1 packet donated by any fast food places that aren't paying attention - hey, that's how my company rolls)

    Dinner
    Stuffed tomato, stir fry, tofu parm, curry, that sort of thing. Usually gauged to match my remaining calories


    Exercise regimen:
    Monday, Wednesday, Friday: Interval training, following c25k. Before that I was walking. This makes up 4-5 sessions a week, since sometimes I repeat the session after work.

    Tuesday, Thursday : Biking, usually trail riding at low racing speeds (approximately 15mph) for about an hour and a half. If its raining, I usually either use an exercise video, or my fitness coach, or wii fit.

    I throw in a splash of kettlebell work here and there. Going to be adding a crunch/pushup regimen as well for mornings, since my lungs seem to be less of an issue with running, and moreso my abs and upper body (advice of a seasoned runner).

    Not sure what else to do really besides an all out lifting regimen which I don't have access to.


    Also, be careful using ketosis as a lifestyle - it is terrible for your liver since most of the breaking down of fat takes place there. It's an emergency process that the body uses to keep the brain supplied with an energy source to conserve the glucose it will need in an emergency. At least that's what the medical science seems to say about it.
  • SHBoss1673
    SHBoss1673 Posts: 7,161 Member
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    This can't be all you are eating, I see about 900 calories there. Maybe 1000 if you are really picky. I mean, I don't know your height and weight, but unless you're 4'11" that's way low on food. Tell me you left some stuff out.
  • Carrie6o6
    Carrie6o6 Posts: 1,443 Member
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    whats the ketogenic diet? I tried looking it up and all I can find is how it helps with epilepsy in children!
  • msarro
    msarro Posts: 2,748 Member
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    That's pretty much it to be honest. Usually dinner is served with some kefir/soymilk, and some cottage cheese. During the day I usually drink water, with one serving of crystal light thrown in.


    I don't think its as low as 900 though...
    Here is yesterday as an example
    breakfast
    Granny smith + peanut butter = 270 calories

    morning snack
    Protein bar = 180 cals

    later snack
    Almonds = 160 calories

    lunch
    Bread+cheese+veggieburger+ketchup (90+30+150+15) = 285
    crystal light = 10 cals

    Dinner:
    stir fry made with olive oil and soy sauce on white rice = 445 calories

    That comes to 1299,(my total from yesterday, I apparently suck out of math and I'm tired of re-editing this, lol) out of 1500 (my goal). The stir fry was huge because it was made with seitan and packed with veggies, so that filled me up and I didn't want anything else. Other totals for the day: 146g carbs, 49g fat, 75g protein, 31g fiber, 52g sugar and less than 2500mg sodium.

    Considering this is an off day (and I didn't do anything yesterday exercise-wise because I was working late) its pretty basic. Usually if I work out I fill out the day with cottage cheese, almonds, kefir, soymilk, or fage.
  • SHBoss1673
    SHBoss1673 Posts: 7,161 Member
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    whats the ketogenic diet? I tried looking it up and all I can find is how it helps with epilepsy in children!

    basically, the complete removal of carbohydrates from nutrition. It forces the body to use nutritional fats and protein as the energy. The body converts from a glycogen burning factory to a fat burning factory plus protein.

    It's tough to stick with though. You drop a bunch of weight at the start, but it's NOT fat, it's mostly the stored glycogen in the muscles and also water.

    It's a good way to kick a carbohydrate addiction, but here's the rub.
    It's HARD to eat that many good fats and protein every day.
    It becomes ultra easy to become dehydrated, you have to take in extra calcium as the ph level of the body changes, and calcium is leeched from the bones to compensate. There can be issues if you do anaerobic activity (like spinning on advanced levels, or weight training to technical failure, or sprint activity) because there is no longer stored glycogen in the muscles and thus, all energy comes from the less efficient means of breaking down fat and protein. Stored fuel, once gone, takes a while to replenish.

    I used to think this caused liver issues too, but I have since revised my thinking on this, there's really no proof that it does.

    The big problem I see with it is that people think "OOH, I'll loose a lot of weight at the start? I'm IN!" But if you go OFF this diet, you gain all of it back.
  • Carrie6o6
    Carrie6o6 Posts: 1,443 Member
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    Sounds like the Atkins diet...
  • weaverc
    weaverc Posts: 158
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    Are you eating your exercise calories?
  • msarro
    msarro Posts: 2,748 Member
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    I usually eat back most of them. Considering I'm used to eating this amount I usually won't eat too much extra, but I try to eat a decent portion of them back. No way i'm going to eat an extra 1500 calories though if I go on a run in the morning and a 1000 calorie bike ride in the evening :smile:
  • Carrie6o6
    Carrie6o6 Posts: 1,443 Member
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    I usually eat back most of them. Considering I'm used to eating this amount I usually won't eat too much extra, but I try to eat a decent portion of them back. No way i'm going to eat an extra 1500 calories though if I go on a run in the morning and a 1000 calorie bike ride in the evening :smile:

    Chips are tasty! hahahahahaha Bad baaaaaaaaaad! hahaha
  • Yewkon
    Yewkon Posts: 34
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    Low carb diet - Atkin's, for example, and other diets such as Southbeach to certain degrees.

    It forces your body into ketosis. Cells in your body use glucose for fuel. Ketosis is when you body doesnt get enough glucose from foods (sugars and starches) and the liver synthesizes ketones from fats and glucose from proteins. Certain cells can burn ketones instead of glucose for energy.

    Whether or not all this is good for your liver is up in debate by the medical community.

    Edit: to comment on SHBoss1673's post -- Yup, I tried Atkins years ago and lost a lot of weight quickly and YEP as soon as I stopped Atkin's I gained it all back. It's also very true about the dehydration - In fact, SCUBA divers (yup I'm one) are actively discouraged to ever do a low carb type diet if they are going to be diving because the dehydration increases your chances of getting decompression sickness greatly.
  • 72lori
    72lori Posts: 6,759 Member
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    Here's what I can give you from my personal experience. I was steadily losing, eating 1200 calories a day for the first 4 months, lost 35 pounds. In fact I went 16 weeks without gaining, I posted a lose every week. I started exercising harder, going to the gym, lifting, so my exercise did increase and suddenly 1200 calories was not nearly enough. I was like I hit a brick wall and was so tired I could barely function. I started eating more, adding back in most of my exercise caloires. I went through 8 weeks where I gained 5 of those weeks, not a lot, 1/2 pound, 1 pound. But I was see sawing back and forth. I would gain 1, lose 2, etc. I get your frustration. I never wanted to quit. Throw the scale, yes, more than once, but quit. Never.

    I'm now eating 1450 on non workout days (Sat, Sun) and I hit the gym M-F so eat 1850 M, W, F and 1650 Tu, Th. I'm not eating back all of my workout calories, (I burn between 600-800 usually), but some days if I know I burned a lot and I want an extra helping of a something that is good for me, I eat it. I don't use my exercise calories to give me an excuse to eat junk. Granted on rare occassions if I want something, I eat it, I earned it. Last week was my son's birthday and I ate cake and ice cream not once, but twice and still did ok. But normally, I do not eat those sorts of things.

    After my body got used to my increased exercise routine, after my body got used to getting more food, it decided to start losing again. It was slow at first, 2/10 of a pound, 5/10 of a pound, but the last few weeks I have lost one pound a week, which is perfect! I have now lost 6 weeks in a row.

    I guess from your food example my first thought is you are not eating enough. Your body cooperates for a while on few calories but then it decides it's done and wants more.

    Keep working at it. You've done great so far and it will start again. Listen to your body. Fuel it properly and you will see the rewards.
  • SHBoss1673
    SHBoss1673 Posts: 7,161 Member
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    I usually eat back most of them. Considering I'm used to eating this amount I usually won't eat too much extra, but I try to eat a decent portion of them back. No way i'm going to eat an extra 1500 calories though if I go on a run in the morning and a 1000 calorie bike ride in the evening :smile:

    Mark, you've been on here long enough to know not to leave so many calories on the table. Someone doing highly athletic schedules NEEDs those calories. It doesn't matter how many calories you burn, you need to stay within the range that makes your body feel it's ok to continue to use body fat as fuel.

    this is DOUBLY important for people doing lots of highly strenuous exercise every day, because besides the calorie burn from the exercise, you also need enough extra to help repair and build the muscles.

    Also, you never answered whether that was all you eat in a day, cuz I still say that's WAAAY low.

    Also, South Beach and Atkins are low carb, not Ketogenic, they START by putting you into ketosis, yes, but they gradually bring you out of it, which is why you get the massive weight loss at the start but, as studies show, you don't lose any more weight then a normal, reduced calorie (but balanced) diet over the long term. There is evidence that you reduce cholesterol and increase heart health on these diets though. So if you have a bum ticker, it could be a good life choice for you, consult a physician before you decide something like this though!
  • msarro
    msarro Posts: 2,748 Member
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    I usually eat back most of them. Considering I'm used to eating this amount I usually won't eat too much extra, but I try to eat a decent portion of them back. No way i'm going to eat an extra 1500 calories though if I go on a run in the morning and a 1000 calorie bike ride in the evening :smile:

    Mark, you've been on here long enough to know not to leave so many calories on the table. Someone doing highly athletic schedules NEEDs those calories. It doesn't matter how many calories you burn, you need to stay within the range that makes your body feel it's ok to continue to use body fat as fuel.

    this is DOUBLY important for people doing lots of highly strenuous exercise every day, because besides the calorie burn from the exercise, you also need enough extra to help repair and build the muscles.

    Also, you never answered whether that was all you eat in a day, cuz I still say that's WAAAY low.

    Also, South Beach and Atkins are low carb, not Ketogenic, they START by putting you into ketosis, yes, but they gradually bring you out of it, which is why you get the massive weight loss at the start but, as studies show, you don't lose any more weight then a normal, reduced calorie (but balanced) diet over the long term. There is evidence that you reduce cholesterol and increase heart health on these diets though. So if you have a bum ticker, it could be a good life choice for you, consult a physician before you decide something like this though!

    I have my activity level set to sedentary, with a 2/lb week goal because I'm still definately in the obese BMI range. My goal is 1500 cals for the day, and last time I checked my BMR was 1999, so it didn't seem that unreasonable. I work as a help desk worker half the time (at a desk) the rest of the time as a technician, so its usually a lot of sitting.

    That is all I eat on a day on average (when I am not working out). If I'm exercising I usually load the calories on at dinner, but I can only eat so much at one sitting, so there's almost always some calories left over. I mean, once I'm eating a main course, a cup of kefir, a dish of cottage cheese, 2 hardboiled eggs, almonds, and a banana, there's really not much room left :laugh:

    So to answer your question, I eat more at dinner usually if its an exercise day, usually filling up as much as I can stomach with fruit, cottage cheese, fage, kefir, almonds, or eggs.
  • SHBoss1673
    SHBoss1673 Posts: 7,161 Member
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    I have my activity level set to sedentary, with a 2/lb week goal because I'm still definately in the obese BMI range. My goal is 1500 cals for the day, and last time I checked my BMR was 1999, so it didn't seem that unreasonable. I work as a help desk worker half the time (at a desk) the rest of the time as a technician, so its usually a lot of sitting.

    That is all I eat on a day on average (when I am not working out). If I'm exercising I usually load the calories on at dinner, but I can only eat so much at one sitting, so there's almost always some calories left over. I mean, once I'm eating a main course, a cup of kefir, a dish of cottage cheese and almonds, and a banana, there's really not much room left :laugh:

    You're killing me M! You're my boy, but I gotta float some knowledge for ya.
    Obese you may be ... technically, but you are very active in your exercise, so regardless of what you are classified as, you have lost a ton of weight, and your body has changed. You know that, your body is telling you that by not dropping more weight. you need to up your calories.

    Yeah it's hard to eat enough (you think that's hard? try eating 3100 PLUS exercise everyday:tongue: ), if you try to add all of it at the end, bring some snacks with you at work, I bring 5 different snacks with me, and lunch, every day (yep, I eat about 2000 calories between 8:00 am and 5:00 pm every day). I'm telling you this will work. Trust me. I'll tell ya what, do this for me for 1 month, if it doesn't work, I'll shut up, but try it. Over the next week, gradually up your calories to your BMR calories PLUS all your exercise calories, and I do mean ALL of them. Do this for 3 weeks, and I'll bet you will feel better, and lose some weight at the same time. If you're having trouble reaching your cals, plan out your exercise ahead of time and estimate how many calories you burn in them, that should help you to spread out extra food through your day.

    You know me Mark, I'm not some crackpot, show me the love! :smile:
  • msarro
    msarro Posts: 2,748 Member
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    I have my activity level set to sedentary, with a 2/lb week goal because I'm still definately in the obese BMI range. My goal is 1500 cals for the day, and last time I checked my BMR was 1999, so it didn't seem that unreasonable. I work as a help desk worker half the time (at a desk) the rest of the time as a technician, so its usually a lot of sitting.

    That is all I eat on a day on average (when I am not working out). If I'm exercising I usually load the calories on at dinner, but I can only eat so much at one sitting, so there's almost always some calories left over. I mean, once I'm eating a main course, a cup of kefir, a dish of cottage cheese and almonds, and a banana, there's really not much room left :laugh:

    You're killing me M! You're my boy, but I gotta float some knowledge for ya.
    Obese you may be ... technically, but you are very active in your exercise, so regardless of what you are classified as, you have lost a ton of weight, and your body has changed. You know that, your body is telling you that by not dropping more weight. you need to up your calories.

    Yeah it's hard to eat enough (you think that's hard? try eating 3100 PLUS exercise everyday:tongue: ), if you try to add all of it at the end, bring some snacks with you at work, I bring 5 different snacks with me, and lunch, every day (yep, I eat about 2000 calories between 8:00 am and 5:00 pm every day). I'm telling you this will work. Trust me. I'll tell ya what, do this for me for 1 month, if it doesn't work, I'll shut up, but try it. Over the next week, gradually up your calories to your BMR calories PLUS all your exercise calories, and I do mean ALL of them. Do this for 3 weeks, and I'll bet you will feel better, and lose some weight at the same time. If you're having trouble reaching your cals, plan out your exercise ahead of time and estimate how many calories you burn in them, that should help you to spread out extra food through your day.

    You know me Mark, I'm not some crackpot, show me the love! :smile:

    Haha, you got it man. I'll give it a shot and keep you posted. Especially since I promised the girlfriend I wouldn't buy my shiny new cannondale racing bike until I hit 180! I WANT MY BIKE!
  • GIBride01
    GIBride01 Posts: 328 Member
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    whats the ketogenic diet? I tried looking it up and all I can find is how it helps with epilepsy in children!

    And a quick FYI...the ketogenic diet is where the use of ketosis was actually designed and promoted through diet,,,it was found to help control seizures in children with seizures disorders. I have always found it uncomfortable to see any diet promoting something that was traditionally started under the supervision of a neurologist and a dietitian only in hospitals...not to mention the hundred of diabetics I have seen fighting to stay out of ketosis in hospitals...makes you think.
  • SHBoss1673
    SHBoss1673 Posts: 7,161 Member
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    I have my activity level set to sedentary, with a 2/lb week goal because I'm still definately in the obese BMI range. My goal is 1500 cals for the day, and last time I checked my BMR was 1999, so it didn't seem that unreasonable. I work as a help desk worker half the time (at a desk) the rest of the time as a technician, so its usually a lot of sitting.

    That is all I eat on a day on average (when I am not working out). If I'm exercising I usually load the calories on at dinner, but I can only eat so much at one sitting, so there's almost always some calories left over. I mean, once I'm eating a main course, a cup of kefir, a dish of cottage cheese and almonds, and a banana, there's really not much room left :laugh:

    You're killing me M! You're my boy, but I gotta float some knowledge for ya.
    Obese you may be ... technically, but you are very active in your exercise, so regardless of what you are classified as, you have lost a ton of weight, and your body has changed. You know that, your body is telling you that by not dropping more weight. you need to up your calories.

    Yeah it's hard to eat enough (you think that's hard? try eating 3100 PLUS exercise everyday:tongue: ), if you try to add all of it at the end, bring some snacks with you at work, I bring 5 different snacks with me, and lunch, every day (yep, I eat about 2000 calories between 8:00 am and 5:00 pm every day). I'm telling you this will work. Trust me. I'll tell ya what, do this for me for 1 month, if it doesn't work, I'll shut up, but try it. Over the next week, gradually up your calories to your BMR calories PLUS all your exercise calories, and I do mean ALL of them. Do this for 3 weeks, and I'll bet you will feel better, and lose some weight at the same time. If you're having trouble reaching your cals, plan out your exercise ahead of time and estimate how many calories you burn in them, that should help you to spread out extra food through your day.

    You know me Mark, I'm not some crackpot, show me the love! :smile:

    Haha, you got it man. I'll give it a shot and keep you posted. Especially since I promised the girlfriend I wouldn't buy my shiny new cannondale racing bike until I hit 180! I WANT MY BIKE!

    Kick *kitten*! Good luck man. Now I'm vested *gulp*

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