Conflicting advice from nutritionist and trainer

wondrturtle
wondrturtle Posts: 17 Member
edited October 6 in Health and Weight Loss
I had a metabolic test done to find my true RMR. The metabolic specialist said that my RMR is 1796, not accounting for lifestyle or exercise. Since May of this year, I have been tracking using the standard MFP recommendation. After getting my RMR, I changed it to custom to reflect the new number. Except now I feel like I am constantly eating, not losing, and I have seen a 2 lb gain. Please keep in mind this is all over the course of this last week. My diary is public, please feel free to criticize it. My trainer says to stay with the 1250 calorie diet. My nutritionist says to stay with the 1796, never eat under your RMR strategy. Is this gain to be expected? Will I go back to losing? I don't know which road to take, need advice please. Thank you.

Replies

  • neanderthin
    neanderthin Posts: 10,207 Member
    That RMR seems high, nevertheless I agree that we shouldn't eat below our RMR for too long. My BMR is about that and I'm a guy 6' and 185. I consume around 3000 to maintain based on my lifestyle. If you've increased your calories from 1250 to 1796 this week I wouldn't worry about the 2lbs, it more than likely the extra glycogen/water storage from thjose 500 calories on a daily basis.

    Do you exercise, and what are your goals?
  • wondrturtle
    wondrturtle Posts: 17 Member
    Yeah, I definitely have a unique build for a girl. I will say that I am very strong, and have a lot of muscle mass. That was what I thought made it high. Maybe it is "off"? Are those tests reliable? It was just resting, breathing into the neoprene mask that is attached by tubes to a computer/machine. I do cardio 2-3 times a week staying in zones 1 & 2 to improve fat burning, and do boot camp once a week and a pretty intense workout with my trainer once a week. My goals are to lose as much fat off my body as I can and to keep getting stronger.
  • season1980
    season1980 Posts: 129 Member
    I would say give yourself another week and if you do not loose and gain then go back to eating the lesser amount.
  • season1980
    season1980 Posts: 129 Member
    Looked at your diary perhaps try sticking to just the 1796 and do not eat any extra calories that MFP gives you based on exercise.
  • wondrturtle
    wondrturtle Posts: 17 Member
    Thanks Season! :) I think I will do just that. I am just a smidge concerned though because my trainer is all about the 1250 plan and I guess I care too much about what other people think. I will give this plan a chance to see if it does work.

    I would say give yourself another week and if you do not loose and gain then go back to eating the lesser amount.
  • neanderthin
    neanderthin Posts: 10,207 Member
    Yup the tests are fairly reliable. I've never had that done. I think it's important that everyone finds a routine they can commit to and one that isn't set up to fail and generally the lower a persons calorie consumption the less effective it is over the course. I would suspect based on your body type and lifestyle that 1796 is a good place to monitor from but i'd give it a good month, unless your seeing steady weight gain, which I doubt.

    Staying in the zone....are you referring to the fat burning zone? If that is the case I would also add that adding or replacing 1 cardio session with some higher intensity might also be effective for fat burning, along with some resistance training.....hopefully you know this won't add bulk, just help to retain muscle, which by default helps to burn more actual body fat.
  • Fat4Fuel2
    Fat4Fuel2 Posts: 280 Member
    Your number actually sounds right. It's a common idea that eating few calories (1200) is the only way to lose weight. However, this is very few calories. The BMR that was given to you is simply to maintain your weight if you were in acoma. This means that eating that many calories with basic movement of daily life should cause you to lose weight, however, it might be slower. You might have gained those two lbs this week because your body needed to readjust. You should start losing again within the next week or two, and you might even feel more energetic because you're eating more.
  • wondrturtle
    wondrturtle Posts: 17 Member
    Thank you! I am going to stick it out for a while and see what happens. The boot camp that I do and the workouts with my trainer are always pretty intense and include a lot of resistance. So it comes out to two low intensity days and two high intensity days. Unfortunately my current schedule doesn't allow for anymore workouts than that, though I have been trying to rework things to sneak in a little extra. :) I'm not too worried about adding bulk, but I definitely am interested in keeping the muscle that I do have and making it stronger.


    Yup the tests are fairly reliable. I've never had that done. I think it's important that everyone finds a routine they can commit to and one that isn't set up to fail and generally the lower a persons calorie consumption the less effective it is over the course. I would suspect based on your body type and lifestyle that 1796 is a good place to monitor from but i'd give it a good month, unless your seeing steady weight gain, which I doubt.

    Staying in the zone....are you referring to the fat burning zone? If that is the case I would also add that adding or replacing 1 cardio session with some higher intensity might also be effective for fat burning, along with some resistance training.....hopefully you know this won't add bulk, just help to retain muscle, which by default helps to burn more actual body fat.
  • jfluchere
    jfluchere Posts: 346 Member
    I have alot of muscle mass too for a girl, and there is no way I can do 1200 calories. 1700 sounds right if you have muscle and training. 1500 is do-able if you want to loose weight by restricting calories; or else eat the 1700 and work out more. You might be gaining muscle giving your body more fuel now.
  • livindreams
    livindreams Posts: 24
    I agree I would try to not eat the extra calories gained from working out and then I think you might see a difference. :)
  • RonSwanson66
    RonSwanson66 Posts: 1,150 Member
    Trainers are not qualified to give nutritional information. In fact, most trainers are not qualified at all.
  • wondrturtle
    wondrturtle Posts: 17 Member
    Thanks livindreams! I will try this :)

    I agree I would try to not eat the extra calories gained from working out and then I think you might see a difference. :)
  • wondrturtle
    wondrturtle Posts: 17 Member
    Not the first time I've heard that. I really enjoy working out with my trainer though.

    Trainers are not qualified to give nutritional information. In fact, most trainers are not qualified at all.
  • TrainingWithTonya
    TrainingWithTonya Posts: 1,741 Member
    Okay, I'm certified as both a personal trainer and a sports nutritionist, plus I have just completed all my coursework for my bachelors in exercise physiology with a minor in nutrition. Unless your trainer has some specialized coursework in nutrition, then a trainer isn't qualified to give nutrition advice to anyone. Also, unless your nutritionist has some specialized coursework in exercise, then your nutritionist isn't qualified to help you with a diet for an exercise program.

    Now, as for your information, BMR is the number you don't want to eat under. RMR includes your activity factor. If you had it measured in the lab after being up and running around doing your thing throughout the day, then you don't need to add extra calories for your normal activity. If you had it measured after your workout (within 12 hours) then it may include some exercise calories depending on what you did. I highly recommend my clients come in and have it done first thing in the morning with no food, drink, or activity for the 12 hours prior so it is a true BMR. Since you were told it was an RMR, I'm going to guess it already included your normal daily activity but not exercise. Therefore, you can let MFP add the exercise calories for you to get TDEE (TDEE=Total Daily Energy Expenditure including exercise). BUT, then you have to subtract out no more then 20% of the TDEE to lose weight. So, my recommendation as a trainer and nutritionist is to take the RMR the nutritionist gave you and put it in as your goal calories. Let MFP add your exercise calories to give you a new goal for your calories. Then multiply that number by 80% and eat at least that many calories. So, if you get 2000 for the TDEE after the exercise has been added, then 2000 x 0.8 = 1600 so you'd eat between 1600 and 2000 calories for that day to lose weight.
  • Jess5825
    Jess5825 Posts: 228
    When you increase your calories you will see a gain, though it is just your body getting used to the increased intake and after a while your will start losing again. When I started eating my exercise calories (going from only eating 1200 calories and working out 6 days a week), My weight went up 1-2 lb. It took 6 weeks of eating them consistently to start losing again. You HAVE to give it longer to see if it works. You can't tell after one week. I think the people who say "I gain if I eat my exercise calories" don't give it long enough, they see a slight gain and just go back to what they were doing.
  • Sidesteal
    Sidesteal Posts: 5,510 Member
    Trainers are not qualified to give nutritional information. In fact, most trainers are not qualified at all.

    ^ This is awesome.
  • Rae6503
    Rae6503 Posts: 6,294 Member
    I lost a half pound a week netting around 2000 calories a day. I'm 5'9" and started MFP at 161. So no, your number doesn't seem that high.
  • Going4Lean
    Going4Lean Posts: 1,078 Member
    Trainers are not qualified to give nutritional information. In fact, most trainers are not qualified at all.

    My trainer actually told me he wasn't a nutritionist and he wasn't qualified to give me advice.
    He just said I should eat more to build lean muscle.
  • Kymmu
    Kymmu Posts: 1,650 Member
    I am also confused and would love some advice.
    I was put o n a machine first thing this morning without breakfast and without a workout.
    Here a re my results:
    Height164cm
    Weight 50.6kg
    Percent body fat: 26.2% Target 22.0%
    Fat weight 13.3 kg Target 11.1 kg
    Lean Body weight 37.3 Kg Target 39.5 kg
    Total Body Water 27.1 litres 53.5% of body weight, 72.5% of lean weight.
    Bio resistance 705 ohms.
    Weight to lose 0.0 kgs
    Metabolic Rate 1136 cal Target 1201 cal

    So I have to turn 2 kgs of fat in to muscle...
    Online tests have told me I have B.fat % of 18.7 % and Metabolic Rate of 1675 cals.
    So I've been adding and subtracting food goals ....
    Any tips or help???
  • neanderthin
    neanderthin Posts: 10,207 Member
    Okay, I'm certified as both a personal trainer and a sports nutritionist, plus I have just completed all my coursework for my bachelors in exercise physiology with a minor in nutrition.

    Now, as for your information, BMR is the number you don't want to eat under. RMR includes your activity factor.

    Are you sure RMR includes activity other than exercise? I don't think so. I can easily add 500 to 700 calories to my BMR for my non exercise thermic activity. Measurements are done at rest for both BMR and RMR and while RMR may not be exactly the same as BMR it's close enough for all intent and purposes.
  • DKBelle
    DKBelle Posts: 585
    When I started out MFP I did go by some trainer advice and eat more than less, started to eat back my calories, gained, didn't lose any weight and than got tired of it. I decided to moderate the foods that I eat and I also stopped counting my calories, worked out 30-60 minutes 6 times a week and surprisingly started to lose weight. I saw so many people having the same problem so I also decided to share my story and slowly took pictures of what I eat with the full recipe.
    What I would do I would try to eat healthy, cut out sugar, salt, oil and flour from my eating habits and workout at least 30 minutes daily. When you are on your journey too long your metabolism get used to the workouts so sometimes you have to change up things you do. I drink 64-120 oz of water and recently started to do weight lifting interval training which kicked my metabolism and I am still loosing weight.
    Check out these free sites:
    https://www.facebook.com/pages/Cooking-ideasHomemade-Healthy-Foods/179121125503371
    www.bodyrock.tv
    www.myomytv.com

    If you feel like friend me, I am also doing mini challenges and post it on my wall daily to stay motivated.
  • DKBelle
    DKBelle Posts: 585
    unfortunately true :) everyone wants to make money so they give sometimes clueless non sense information out :(((
    Trainers are not qualified to give nutritional information. In fact, most trainers are not qualified at all.

    ^ This is awesome.
  • ninerbuff
    ninerbuff Posts: 48,972 Member
    Trainers are not qualified to give nutritional information. In fact, most trainers are not qualified at all.
    This.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
  • tigersword
    tigersword Posts: 8,059 Member
    RMR doesn't include normal daily activity. BMR is if you're in a coma, RMR is if you were just relaxing in bed all day. In a coma you don't move, relaxing in bed you do, you shift around, roll over, move your arms or legs, etc. They are pretty much the same thing, just BMR is a much stricter test, usually done overnight, I believe, and RMR can be done anytime.

    BMR - Basal Metabolic Rate
    RMR - Resting Metabolic Rate
    TDEE - Total Daily Energy Expenditure <-- This is the number that includes your daily activity.
  • RonSwanson66
    RonSwanson66 Posts: 1,150 Member
    Unless your trainer has some specialized coursework in nutrition, then a trainer isn't qualified to give nutrition advice to anyone. Also, unless your nutritionist has some specialized coursework in exercise, then your nutritionist isn't qualified to help you with a diet for an exercise program.

    Excellent post.
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