The science behind gaining it all back

2

Replies

  • KarmaxKitty
    KarmaxKitty Posts: 901 Member
    bump
  • capriciousmoon
    capriciousmoon Posts: 1,263 Member
    This is why you diet slowly, and take breaks every so often to eat at maintenance. It prevents the hormonal problems, by allowing them to reset, rather than keeping at it long term and causing all kinds of havoc.

    I did this, even though I was really just being lazy for a while. :laugh: I lost 100 lbs in a year with some breaks of a month or two, then pretty much maintained for 3 years before joining MFP. I noticed those breaks let me eat a lot more food and maintain my weight without any special effort (just eating when hungry and some exercise).
  • paprad
    paprad Posts: 321 Member
    It was initially depressing, but I wonder how much of that is Tara Parker Pope's own irritation with her body coming through, it was almost as if she needed to give herself permission to stay overweight. She didn't really provide any counter-reseach - what could make the leptin-gherlin balance come back, what is the effect of strength training, And only briefly flirts with the idea that maybe a slower weight loss would work - that study cited was ridiculous - how can they justify putting people on such low calorie diets and then trying to extrapolate that to the the whole population. Clearly any weight loss on those terms was not a sustainable lifestyle at all.

    I think strength training is probably a key input - I noticed the exercise mentioned in it were mostly cardio and endurance. TPP was a marathoner and there is evidence to show that it eats muscle - it would have helped if she had researched whether strength training staves of putting back lost weight.
  • Raclex
    Raclex Posts: 238
    A great article in the NYTimes:

    "While researchers have known for decades that the body undergoes various metabolic and hormonal changes while it’s losing weight, the Australian team detected something new. A full year after significant weight loss, these men and women remained in what could be described as a biologically altered state. Their still-plump bodies were acting as if they were starving and were working overtime to regain the pounds they lost. For instance, a gastric hormone called ghrelin, often dubbed the “hunger hormone,” was about 20 percent higher than at the start of the study. Another hormone associated with suppressing hunger, peptide YY, was also abnormally low. Levels of leptin, a hormone that suppresses hunger and increases metabolism, also remained lower than expected. A cocktail of other hormones associated with hunger and metabolism all remained significantly changed compared to pre-dieting levels. It was almost as if weight loss had put their bodies into a unique metabolic state, a sort of post-dieting syndrome that set them apart from people who hadn’t tried to lose weight in the first place. "

    Read the article here: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/01/magazine/tara-parker-pope-fat-trap.html?_r=1&hp
    We are still without excuse though.

    All of these factors can be easily overcome with continued willpower, hard work and discipline.

    Well said. I second this!
  • imjessly
    imjessly Posts: 140 Member
    So would this also apply if you were sick for an extended period of time (months) and lost a bunch of weight from not being able to keep food down?
  • joseph9
    joseph9 Posts: 328 Member
    The article makes sense to me.

    1) If I eat the way I want to with the food that's available to me, I'm going to be 190 pounds and climbing. I love eating a whole pizza, or buying a bag of mini-Reese's to eat in the car. Food is one of the two or three great pleasures in life, and my body evolved to stock up some fat in case lean times are ahead.

    2) So if I want to keep my weight at 160 or so, it's pretty obvious that I need to keep monitoring my calorie intake so that I eat fewer calories than I would if left to my own devices. (Or change the food that's available to me with something like Paleo).

    3) The one thing I'm not sure I buy is the author's idea that it's the process of getting fat, then stripping the weight, that causes successful dieters to have a lower metabolic rate than people who were always that thin. That's possible, but it's also possible that the dieters had a lower average metabolic rate to start with, which contributed to their initial weight gain.
  • paprad
    paprad Posts: 321 Member
    That's possible, but it's also possible that the dieters had a lower average metabolic rate to start with, which contributed to their initial weight gain.
    That would be the case for people who've always had a problem with weight. In my case I was skinny for nearly 30 years, then mildly overweight for around 10 and then obese for 8 - so what would cause my metabolic rate to keep dipping - mostly due to age and lifestyle changes, I thnk, but it isn't likely to be genetic.
  • TourThePast
    TourThePast Posts: 1,753 Member
    Purely in evolutionary terms it would be an advantage if it was the case that when a body went from having a large reserve of fat to then having a lesser reserve of fat i.e. in a time of food shortage, it was thereafter able to survive and even regain some of those fat reserves even on a lower food intake.

    So to me it makes perfect sense, even if I don't actually like it! :bigsmile:

    Will be interesting to find if future studies find similar results.
  • Shaz_74
    Shaz_74 Posts: 100 Member
    This is why you diet slowly, and take breaks every so often to eat at maintenance. It prevents the hormonal problems, by allowing them to reset, rather than keeping at it long term and causing all kinds of havoc.

    And yes, strength training helps. If the muscle you have gets more efficient, just add more to make up the difference. :wink:

    Sensible and straight forward. I like it! :flowerforyou:
  • SolidGoaled
    SolidGoaled Posts: 504 Member
    Huh - I don't think I like this article very much! The thoughts of having to eat at a calories deficit AND workout 6 days a week for the rest of my life is very depressing. :/

    I was hoping that by becoming somewhat of an athlete, I could eventually have a maintenance calorie requirement of 2000+/day or so.
  • MissFuchsia
    MissFuchsia Posts: 523 Member
    I don't think the article isn't too depressing. I've already accepted I'll always have to watch what I eat and exercise regularly
  • grassette
    grassette Posts: 976 Member
    I find the article to be motivating. I already know I have to cut back on eating. The real motivator is the amount of exercise I need. Seeing that exercise is tied into a healthy longevity, it underlines how sedentary our lives have become and how much we need to work against that bias in our every day lives.

    If that means that I do 90 minutes on the treadmill daily, so bit it. That is doable. All I have to do is do it.

    The study was a good one, and one that shows that starvation diets don't work. 800 cals a day! No wonder the body craved! At 1200 per day, I know that I can eat to satiety, and keep on losing.
  • SuzieMae78
    SuzieMae78 Posts: 52 Member
    Very informational, thank you for sharing! I am def. one of these people and once I hit goal it will be my most proud accomplishment, knowing how hard it is going to be for me to keep the weight off.
  • Espressocycle
    Espressocycle Posts: 2,245 Member
    I am strongly considering giving up on weight loss entirely and just enjoying my life.
  • RieBerg
    RieBerg Posts: 261 Member
    This research isn't very well controlled. The people lost weight all sorts of differetn ways. We know that the atkins diet causes your body to starve. The fact that these people lost weight all sort of different ways doesn't give the study much control. Also, it says these "still plump" people. Does that mean if you lose all the weight you need to to be in a normal range, this doesn't happen?
  • sjtreely
    sjtreely Posts: 1,014 Member
    Sometimes the truth hurts. Knowledge is power.

    Every day. Every meal. Every mile. It all counts.
  • Larius
    Larius Posts: 507 Member
    1) Starve fat people on 500-800 cals/day so they lose weight including lots of muscle
    2) Wait until they get fat again by eating as much as they feel like of whatever they feel like, since they're given poor guidance on weight maintenance
    3) Profit!

    How about studying healthy smart people who moderate their diet and activity levels? Damn, there's not much profit in that.
  • cuquee
    cuquee Posts: 8
    This article doesn't "depress'" me it just let's me know that maintaining is a whole other mind-set. It is a life long commitment to being healthy...which I kind of understood from the get go. We focus so much on "losing weight" at times that it seems like a competition to see who can lose the most pounds instead of changing your mind about how you view food. I am taking my weight off slowly and I'm more excited about my mind changing just as much as my body is changing. I STILL eat sweets and enjoy myself on weekends. It is UNREALISTIC for ME to think that I will never want to eat my favorite foods ever again. The article just puts priorities in perspective and I think it is important to know what you are eating but you have to give yourself a break. Food is here for us to enjoy too! :)
  • worldhurdler
    worldhurdler Posts: 153 Member
    *Note: I have no studies or scientific background to back me up; this is just my personal experience. Also, I was at a healthy weight up through high school, became slightly overweight in college, and full-fledged overweight for about 1.5 years after, but never hit obese.

    From my own experience, eating at maintenance/keeping the weight off is not necessarily as difficult as this article makes it seem. I dropped 30lbs over the course of 12 months mostly by starting to exercise again (combination of cardio and strength training) and being more concientious with my food choices. I logged food for the first 3 of those months, but that's it. After that I "maintained" (actually dropped about another 5lbs) for two years without logging anything and working out between 2-5 hrs per week. I think that by paying attention to your body for awhile (like we're all doing by just being on this website) you can learn the basics of how to maintain it. I didn't have to count every calorie; I could feel if I was hungary or not, and I know what's "good" and what's "bad" for me. I'm now back to logging as I'm trying to shift my body composition and want to focus on my macros, not just net calories, but I know that if this technology was taken away from me I could still be successful on this journey, and without slaving over it. I know this may not be everyone's experience, because we all have very different bodies that have been on different journeys. But maintaining may not be as aweful as they say =)
  • jojoworks
    jojoworks Posts: 315 Member
    I read all 8 pages of this article. I have a couple thoughts, observations:

    Some of the studies were of very obese people who were put on drastic calorie reductions (800 calories/day). Some/most of these people found themselves putting the weight back on soon after their drastic deficits ceased......
    ......hmmm, I wonder why?

    It seems like some of the philosophy of this site is quite applicable: slow and steady can help you achieve and maintain your goals......weightloss is a process not an event.......this is a lifestyle change not a diet so don't expect you can eat right for a few months and then go back to whatever you'd been doing before.

    Also, the article really helped enforce that obese people have suffered their own and society's condemnations for being weak willed LONG ENOUGH!!! There are many contributing factors to why you may become obese, not the least of which is biology!

    I encourage y'all to read the article. It really did a lot to reinforce this process for me: that I need to remain vigilant and engaged in the process. That it may be harder for me to maintain my goal weight than it is for someone who weighs the same and has never been obese. That treating my daily calorie counting and weighing and exercise burns is as hygienically important to me as brushing my teeth and putting clothes on.

    good luck and happy holidays!
    JoJo
  • threeforagirl
    threeforagirl Posts: 39
    ]I pity those normal people.
    I'd never trade places with them, because my victory over this very struggle made me strong.

    I am stronger than them, and it's reflected in all the other areas of life where I excel way beyond the comfort zone normality.

    I think I'm going to post this quote on my wall when I reach goal. So positive and awesome!
  • HonkyTonks
    HonkyTonks Posts: 1,193 Member
    1) Starve fat people on 500-800 cals/day so they lose weight including lots of muscle
    2) Wait until they get fat again by eating as much as they feel like of whatever they feel like, since they're given poor guidance on weight maintenance
    3) Profit!

    How about studying healthy smart people who moderate their diet and activity levels? Damn, there's not much profit in that.

    You didn't read the article did you..
  • sahrak1
    sahrak1 Posts: 56 Member
    ]I pity those normal people.
    I'd never trade places with them, because my victory over this very struggle made me strong.

    I am stronger than them, and it's reflected in all the other areas of life where I excel way beyond the comfort zone normality.

    I think I'm going to post this quote on my wall when I reach goal. So positive and awesome!

    I second that xx love this ^^
  • paprad
    paprad Posts: 321 Member
    have been thinking about the article again and reflecting over why i found it depressing. i guess somewhere at the back of my mind was that i would lose weight, become fit and skinny again, and then just focus on exercise whch i enjoy and not on calorie counting that i find oppressive. i guess what i need to accept is that ship has sailed. whether out of biology or programming, my body has changed and has fresh demands, and being in denial won't help.

    to that extent i think MFP is already doing me a huge benefit in the month that i've been here. i haven't lost much this month and half, but i've gained a lot of knowledge and information on nutrition and body dynamics - it's been an education and finally i have a tool. i always knew we needed a calorie deficit to lose weight, that was a no-brainer, but how exactly to monitor calories, and achieve a steady deficit, that was eluding me. i now feel more upbeat that if i do this steadily for long enough, my body will get used to the new system and it won't be a chore to calorie count - as someone said upthread, it is just another hygiene task in the day, like flossing.
  • SolidGoaled
    SolidGoaled Posts: 504 Member
    I have also been reflecting on my reasons for feeling "down" about this article. I think it is because I was really looking forward to NOT having to exercise so much some day - don't get me wrong - I will never stop exercising completely because I love it too much. But I put in 6 days a week to help with the calorie deficit, and I figured when I hit goal, I could drop a couple days because I would be eating maintenance calories. For some reason, this article makes it sound like I will need to be on a permanent "diet" as opposed to the art of creating a deficit for weight loss, then being able to eat more calories when weight loss is no longer needed.
  • missy_1975
    missy_1975 Posts: 244 Member
    Registry members exercise about an hour or more each day — the average weight-loser puts in the equivalent of a four-mile daily walk, seven days a week. They get on a scale every day in order to keep their weight within a narrow range. They eat breakfast regularly. Most watch less than half as much television as the overall population. They eat the same foods and in the same patterns consistently each day and don’t “cheat” on weekends or holidays. They also appear to eat less than most people, with estimates ranging from 50 to 300 fewer daily calories. "

    This doesn't sound depressing at all to me. In fact, it sounds like exactly the sort of lifestyle I want to live: less sitting on a couch, more physical activity, and regular, healthy meals. To me it sounds like these people have a higher than average quality of life.

    I accepted a while ago that I will probably need to pay attention to my weight for the rest of my life. At first I felt frustrated, but then I realized: I've been paying attention to my weight my whole life already. I've thought about it every day when I got dressed, when I tried to squeeze into a small chair, and when I felt out of breath going up stairs. I'd much rather think about it from the other side of the problem, you know? And the added benefit is that I'll probably end up eating healthier than most people, because I'll be paying attention. We just need to look on the bright side.

    I love your way of thinking about this, it's so true. When overweight and unhappy, most of us spend a huge amount of time thinking about our weight and being really down on ourselves. If I have to keep doing what I'm doing right now the rest of my life I'm fine with it, I got into truble in the first place with my weight by not being mindful of what I was eating and drinking.
  • ejohndrow
    ejohndrow Posts: 1,399 Member
    You know what? I used to think that people with nice bodys were just really lucky, that they didn't have to work as hard as I did, their metabolism was 'better', they were just 'luckier' in the genes department. But then you find out that everyone is struggling. The people with truly healthy bodys get there through hard work, through watching what they eat on a daily basis. This guy I worked with used to be 240lbs and he didn't like that so he hit the gym hard, changed his diet completely and started crossfit. Now he's abotu 180, lean and he continues to eat healthy. I remember working with this incredbly thin girl and thinking 'wow, to be that lucky!' then I find out she runs 5+miles a day at least 5 days a week plus works out otherwise and watches what she eats, makes sure it's healthy. Most of us would like for there to be a time when we can back off and not do as much. But I think at the same time once you get started and into the habit it helps you out in so many ways. I honestly never thought I'd even be able to do my 1.5 mile run under 17 min. again, and the other day I did it in 14:26-I did 3 miles in 29:02. The prospect of continuing this way of life may seem upsetting but remember that everyone struggles to some degree. Hollywoods actors/actresses work hard for the bodys they have (not talking about the ones who get it through fad diets), that hot girl/guy on the street probably kills it in the gym. I used to think a good workout was 30 min on the elliptical-now that isn't even a warm-up. Once you get past the negative, overwhelming thoughts and start to like appreciate exercise and healthy eating then a walk of four miles a day, and a continuous healthy diet doesn't sound too bad. I think the important thing to remember is that 1.) Health is important-modern medicine is wonderful, but there's no pill or procedure that can truly reverse what a healthy lifestyle can prevent, and 2.) As I started with-we all struggle, don't get discouraged by something like this. Just learn to work with it and use it to your advantage.

    Oh and admittedly I didn't read the entire article-I read the first bit awhile ago and sort of forgot everything it said, there just seem to be a few people who were depressed or saddened, and who seem to feel alone in this quest to lose weight and be healthy. Just wanted to give encouragement is all.
  • IvoryParchment
    IvoryParchment Posts: 651 Member
    I was a skinny person most of my life, and I can tell everyone, I ate whatever crap I felt like. If I went a couple pounds over my baseline weight, I lost my appetite and had no interest in food. I'm kind of hyper, so I burn calories fidgeting, but I never did any formal exercise. In short, my weight control was genetic, not due to any superior virtue.

    Now that I'm postmenopausal, I have to watch my weight, just like my formerly skinnny mother and my formerly skinny grandmother. I have to count calories and use exercise to allow me to eat more than my metabolic rate would otherwise allow. Even so, I lose weight faster than MFP predicts for my calorie intake, so my metabolic rate is still burning calories more than most people do.

    So yes, those of you who have been obese are NOT lazier or less disciplined than I was. When I was 20, I couldn't have gained even as much weight as I had when I joined MFP, let alone gone into the "obese" range. I would have been physically ill trying to eat that much.

    But leave us both in a desert with no food and I'll die much sooner. You're just better adapted to survive in an environment that neither of us happen to live in.
  • Russellb97
    Russellb97 Posts: 1,057 Member
    The article is depressing and sad, but I am one who has lost over 100lbs and kept it off for several years. I don't exercise for hours a day, I'm closer to an hour a week. So don't let articles like this get you down.

    Leptin drops when we have a calorie deficit, studies show that in as little as seven days of calories restriction it can drop pretty dramatically.

    Leptin rises in as a little as 12 hours of overfeeding when it's preceded by calorie restriction.

    It's a simple solution and pretty fun, one day a week eat a calorie surplus.
  • vs1023
    vs1023 Posts: 417 Member
    A great article in the NYTimes:

    "While researchers have known for decades that the body undergoes various metabolic and hormonal changes while it’s losing weight, the Australian team detected something new. A full year after significant weight loss, these men and women remained in what could be described as a biologically altered state. Their still-plump bodies were acting as if they were starving and were working overtime to regain the pounds they lost. For instance, a gastric hormone called ghrelin, often dubbed the “hunger hormone,” was about 20 percent higher than at the start of the study. Another hormone associated with suppressing hunger, peptide YY, was also abnormally low. Levels of leptin, a hormone that suppresses hunger and increases metabolism, also remained lower than expected. A cocktail of other hormones associated with hunger and metabolism all remained significantly changed compared to pre-dieting levels. It was almost as if weight loss had put their bodies into a unique metabolic state, a sort of post-dieting syndrome that set them apart from people who hadn’t tried to lose weight in the first place. "

    Read the article here: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/01/magazine/tara-parker-pope-fat-trap.html?_r=1&hp
    We are still without excuse though.

    All of these factors can be easily overcome with continued willpower, hard work and discipline.

    Agreed. I know I have to work hard to lose the weight AND keep it off. It's not like you just lose the weight and go "ok, now I can do whatever" - no, you have to continue. Keep challenging yourself physically and continue logging food. If you don't want to log, then fine, but if your clothes start to get tight, re-evaluate your life to see where you're slipping.
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